Nixon phone call with Rogers on Mansfield Amendment and NATO

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Hello, Mr. President.

We have a little, as usual, they're going to have an SST vote again this afternoon, so I can't go out.

I think we may win it in the House.

The other thing is that we're doing everything we can to keep Scott and Griffin

to delay the vote on Mansfield's thing, because I can think of nothing that would be worse at the present time than to have the jackass Senate go off on a, let's bring half our troops home.

Wouldn't that really tear the Europeans apart?

No doubt.

Is there anything I can do?

Well, I tell you what, the main point is that I want you to know that I've got McGregor working on everybody else.

Henry talked to them about in terms of the

of a necessity to delay.

You see, they were going to vote today or tomorrow.

That would kill us.

But if we can get some delay, then I think we've got to work on them one by one.

And the point is, you know, let's frankly look at our Jewish friends.

Good God, if we pull out of Europe, what the hell are you going to do in the, I mean, what's it going to be for Israel?

That's right.

And also, but it's bigger.

The point is, all this has to do with our relations with the Russians.

We're ready to deal on these things.

What a victory they would have.

And you've just come back from there.

Let me ask you what the...

So I'm just going to NATO.

We have a NATO meeting scheduled.

Let me ask you this.

And possibly when I get through these calls, maybe we can get together later this afternoon.

Okay.

But I was going to say, it may be that you ought to have, try to have a meeting where you just get them in, you know, the key people.

and say, now look here, we just have to step up to this thing.

You see, they'll take it from you better than they'll take it from Laird or anybody else.

And you're just back from Europe, and you say, look, fellas, we're all trying to do the same thing.

Mike is selling this.

Let's understand Mike's position.

Mike Bill has always been for cutting NATO in half.

You know, always.

This is not new for him.

He believes it, and I understand that.

But now what is happening is this self-destructive instinct is, no,

permeating so many of the others and they want to rush around and do it with the draft bill and bring them back.

But if we could just point out that look what we're doing and you know with your chart show that we're cutting down our troops abroad and we are ready to negotiate on Europe

you know, give them a little nonsense about the European Security Conference.

Well, no, I can do that.

See?

But it doesn't make any sense at all, and particularly not even to have hearings.

I mean, my God, this is a major shift in our foreign policy.

Well, the one fellow that if you could call now would be helpful, I'd just call...

You know, Stennis wobbles sometimes.

He does?

Well, he wobbles not only, he doesn't believe, but he just wobbles when he doesn't think he can have the votes.

But I don't think we need money.

But if you could give maybe Scott a call and tell him, now look here, stand firm on this thing, and then let's set up maybe some seminars where you bring them in.

And as a matter of fact, we might even do it at the highest level.

We might bring in, say, a bunch of people at the cabinet room or over at my house.

I would sit in for a while, and then I'd turn it over to you, and then you'd crack them, see?

Because you're just back.

And then you could give them a report on your trip generally, but hit this thing so hard, because these fellows, just like the whole sense that I think you can get out of your trip report is to say, look, we're doing very well on the world, fellows.

We've got a lot of friends in Europe.

People have confidence in us.

You're going to destroy this confidence with this kind of a move.

Isn't that really what it gets down to?

Sure, sure.

We have a NATO meeting coming up, you know, in two weeks, three weeks, something like that, too.

We'd be pulling the rug right out from you before NATO?

Sure, sure.

Okay.

I wonder, I don't know there's anything you could do with Mike himself, but I don't know.

Well, I might.

Let's be sure we orchestrate it pretty carefully, though, so we don't... Well, nothing is done here except that Scott and Griffin came down and talked to McGregor, and they got Henry, and we gave...

We said we just couldn't buy it from a subsidy standpoint, and we just urged delay.

So what we're trying to do is to get a week's delay.

Are you going to see Aitken?

Somebody told me you're going to see Aitken and Cooper and Scott.

Well, someday.

I don't know if they're on right now, but I could.

No, I didn't mean that.

I just want to be sure we're coordinated.

No, I have no plans at the moment.

I am going to see Brooke on Friday, because I promised to see him a month ago.

That's the only way I got him to get off of some resolution.

But maybe this is the time to see Aiken and Cooper.

Well, let me... Feel it out.

I'll tell you what you do.

You feel out Aiken.

You feel out Cooper.

But also, on the Democratic side, if we could... Let's think of some of the Democratic...

Now, for example, Muskie, for Christ's sakes, he came back from his trip abroad, and George Ball turned him around, you know, on Europe.

Yeah, you remember, Muskie changed.

He said he was against it.

So, after all, I don't see how he can do it.

Here's the point about this.

This is altogether different from Vietnam.

See, it's always been that way.

The Democratic Party has been schizophrenic about Asia and Europe.

I mean, we're one-worlders.

They're two-worlders.

They're willing to do anything in Europe and nothing in Asia.

No.

That's why Korea was difficult farms for Vietnamese.

But in Europe, this is their baby.

I mean, after all, NATO is a democratic baby, you know.

And George Ball and people like that know this.

And he, incidentally, has called down.

He called down and talked to Henry today and said he'd go do anything he could.

He'd come down, work on people individually.

So maybe that'll help a little on the democratic side.

Well, what I would do, could you call Cooper and could you call Bacon?

I'll get into it right away.

Bacon and call Scott.

Let me know.

I'll be here all morning.

Will you have your people...

Let me know, too, what they're doing.

That's the reason I'm calling you, to let you know that we're going to get it.

And what we want to do is to, frankly, I want you to get into it, but I don't want Mel to get into it too much.

He's not feeling well anyway.

But we'll work out the supply.

Bye, Mr. President.

Nixon phone call with Rogers on Mansfield Amendment and NATO

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Also recorded on May 12, 1971

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