Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 5 › Conversation 005-117

Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Pentagon Papers and Lyndon B. Johnson

Thursday, June 17, 1971 · 7:39 PM–7:45 PM ET · White House Telephone · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.Conversation005-117 on Tape 5 (tape position 03:34:41–03:39:51)StartThursday, June 17, 1971 at 7:39 PMEndThursday, June 17, 1971 at 7:45 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 005-117 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss strategies for managing the public fallout from the Pentagon Papers leak, specifically focusing on the need for former President Lyndon B. Johnson to publicly defend his administration. Nixon expresses frustration that his administration is bearing the political burden alone and directs Kissinger to contact Walt Rostow to pressure Johnson into holding a press conference. Kissinger advises shifting the focus toward defending the integrity of the presidency and the illegality of the document theft rather than focusing solely on Johnson's personal defense.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello, Mr. President.
Hello, Henry.
I think it's important that you give Rostow a call.
Let me tell you the problem.
He's advising Johnson against doing a press thing.
I think they've got to be told very directly that tomorrow I'll have 200 press in Rochester, that I am prepared and I intend to defend Johnson on this whole thing, but that I can't do it unless he's prepared to defend himself.
And that what they're trying to do, Henry, is just to let us take the heat on this thing.
None of their people are speaking up.
Now, you call him and you tell him that I think that...
I think he's at Newport right now.
I don't care where he is.
Call him and tell who he is.
Johnson?
No, Rostow.
You call Rostow.
He ought to get a hold of Johnson.
He's advising Johnson against this.
Johnson ought to have a press conference.
Now, we need it for reasons that...
You are, I'm sure, quite aware of it.
I'm aware of it, Mr. President, but I talked to Bill Jordan and Tom Johnson yesterday on the same topic.
Yeah.
And I just don't think the information is quite so correct.
But I'll call Rostow this minute.
You don't think it's correct that he's...
I don't think he's going to have one.
I believe he has no intention of having one.
I don't believe that Rostow is the chief obstacle.
I just don't think he wants to have one.
Why won't he have one?
Well, what I didn't discuss at press conference, I said that there should be some statements and some activity from them.
And they said, since they were... Well, you ought to tell Rostow this, that unless he has a press conference, I'm not prepared to defend him.
Not just as cold as that.
They've just got to know.
I'm not going to defend him.
Why should I?
Well...
I don't think you should defend Johnson anyway.
I think you should defend the presidency.
I don't think you should get into the issue.
I'm not going to, but on the other hand, on the other hand, it amounts to a defense of Johnson.
You know, when you really get down to it, they say, I don't think this is proper, you know, to put one side of the case out rather, and not up the whole case and that sort of thing.
That's defending Johnson.
I'm not sure, Mr. President.
I will coerce about the press conference, but I think you should...
you should concentrate on the theft of documents and on the unconscionable way of attacking somebody without giving him any chance of rebuttal, explaining where the documents came from and so forth.
That, I think, is unanswerable.
When we say out of context, then they'll say, well, why don't you supply the context?
Well,
I'll chat with Rostow a bit about it, see if he is...
I will chat with Rostow.
Harlow's report is that Rostow is advising against it, so let's see what he says.
I will call it.
Because Johnson should go to the mat on this.
He really should.
He should speak up, don't you think so?
Well... Not for his interest, but for ours.
Frankly, I think they're all so eager to...
Well, it would certainly get a tremendous brawl started between Johnson and the press.
You're right.
And it'd get off of us.
You see what I mean?
It would get it off us on the immediate problem, but it would also drag the whole issue down to the level of was Johnson guilty or not.
That's a hell of a lot better than having whether I was guilty or not, Henry.
That's my point.
I honestly believe that this episode can be turned into an asset if we go on the offensive and say that these people are deliberately undermining confidence in government.
And that that's what it's all about, that what you are resisting is the flouting of laws and the principle that the end justifies the means and the so-called higher morality.
I simply don't find this, I just had Jerry Schecter in here from time.
Now, I know they never write it the way they talk.
Yeah, that's for sure.
And I immediately go on the attack.
I said, now, I just don't understand how you people can even, he began by saying, how do we know you people aren't doing the same thing?
And I said, don't you give me that language.
I said, how do I know you're not stealing papers all over the place?
And they don't feel at all confident of themselves.
I have yet to meet a newsman who really is sticking to the Times for anything other than guilt loyalty.
But I may not see a representative sample.
Well, I just want to be sure Rostow doesn't...
But I will talk to Rostow and tell him... Well, chat with him about it.
See what he thinks and let me know what he says, okay?

NARA Description

On June 17, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 7:39 pm to 7:45 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 005-117 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 5-117

Date: June 17, 1971
Time: 7:39 pm - 7:45 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

     Pentagon Papers
          -Kissinger's possible call to Walt W. Rostow
          -Need for Lyndon B. Johnson to defend himself
          -President's forthcoming press conference in Rochester
          -Kissinger's call to William J. Jordan and Tom Johnson
          -Need for Johnson to defend himself
          -Defense of Johnson by the President
          -Presidency
          -Administration's response
          -Theft of documents
          -Bryce N. Harlow’s report

          -Need for Johnson to defend himself
               -Effect on press
          -Guilt
          -Administration's response
          -Legality versus morality
          -Kissinger's conversation with Jerrold L. Schecter
          -Response of newsmen
          -Kissinger's forthcoming call to Rostow

Also recorded on June 17, 1971

  • 005-115 6:55 PM · 44 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 6:55 pm to 6:56 pm.
  • 005-116 6:56 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:56 pm and 7:39 pm.
  • 261-019 6:56 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 6:56 pm and 7:39 pm.
  • 261-020 7:39 PM · 30 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building on an unknown date, sometime between 7:39 pm on June 17, 1971 and 11:27 am on June 19, 1971.
  • 261-021 7:39 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building on an unknown date, sometime between 7:39 pm on June 17, 1971 and 11:27 am on June 19, 1971.
  • 261-022 7:39 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building on an unknown date, sometime between 7:39 pm on June 17, 1971 and 11:27 am on June 19, 1971.
  • 261-023 7:39 PM · 24 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building on an unknown date, sometime between 7:39 pm on June 17, 1971 and 11:27 am on June 19, 1971.
  • 261-024 7:39 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building on an unknown date, sometime between 7:39 pm on June 17, 1971 and 11:27 am on June 19, 1971.

All 75 conversations from June 17, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 005-117, June 17, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/005-117 (accessed October 18, 2026).