Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 11 › Conversation 011-119
Nixon phone call with Colson on Economic policy and Public opinion polling
Monday, October 18, 1971 · 5:32 PM–5:40 PM ET · White House Telephone ·8 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Charles Colson reviewed positive economic indicators, including rising industrial production, housing starts, and retail sales, while discussing strategies to leverage favorable polling data and media narratives. They analyzed various public opinion polls, including Gallup, Harris, and Sindlinger, to assess the President's standing and Democratic fragmentation. Additionally, they coordinated efforts to criticize network news coverage via allies like William L. Springer and Dean Burch and noted strong support for the President among youth groups such as the Future Farmers of America.
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Hello.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Well, how's your day today?
Well, I think we've had a number of things rolling today.
Your trip made some very good copy on the wires.
I don't know how the networks will do, but that played quite well.
Some good economic news for a change.
And I shouldn't say for a change.
In one category for a change.
What was that?
The industrial production figure went up today.
I saw it, yeah.
Of course, I read that.
our uh the council didn't they said it wasn't really as good as it should have been but they always say that so that's all right yeah the federal reserve they said it was welcome but i didn't see did the council speak to it see no then there and paul mccracken's memo to me you know oh i see he always said oh he was cautious well it's up a half at one well it's a point and that's the first time it's gone up since may when i tried said for returns that one's been worrisome because that's been going down four months in a row although that is one that is not really
has as much impact on the economy as it once did.
But nevertheless, it's gone up a little.
Well, and the housing starts out today, which is up again.
Is it still up?
Yes, sir.
A million, 958 now.
It's almost to 2 million.
And 47% above a year ago.
Retail sales, I just got another weekly figure on that, which is now the fourth week in a row that it's been over 10% above a year ago, which is largely automobiles, but it's still a hell of a healthy, it's a hell of a healthy increase.
It
You know, they can always say, well, these figures are due to this or that or the other thing, but God damn it, that's something.
Well, I don't care how you slice it.
When you increase the purchasing by that amount, you're creating jobs.
I mean, it may be in one area or not in another.
Maybe people right now are buying cars because they're a bargain, but it's still damn good.
Damn good, I think.
We've got a few things going on.
Edith Efren's book.
We've got Bill Springer's testifying tomorrow before the Urban Committee, and he's all primed to give the networks a little hell and make reference to the book, which will get us a little good press out of it.
I think Dean Birch might do the same thing on Wednesday.
So on that front, we've got things steaming along, and we've got an excellent column out on that by Kevin Phillips.
He's given us one that made quite a bit of
It's made some press on its own, and it's a hell of a good column.
Let's see what else has been happening today.
We'll have the Gallup figures very shortly, Mr. President.
I don't know whether anybody's told you.
There are about two-thirds complete in their figures from the survey of last week, and they haven't given us a number, but they told Rumsfeld this morning that the president has broken out of the doldrums of
I think it's up somehow.
It's up.
They know it's up.
They had completed... Disapproval, or is this, again, trial heats?
No, this will be approval-disapproval.
And they say that's up...
They've calculated approximately two-thirds of the surveys, and they said it's evident from this that...
That it's up some.
Up some.
They don't know how much.
Well, if they even show any, it's good.
Oh, that's right.
Particularly with Harris following.
Any movement.
Well, Harris had his... Is Harris out today?
Yes, his 51 positive was out today.
Predictably, the goddamn Washington Post didn't carry it.
I'll be goddamned.
Well, it's about the fourth time they've done that to us.
Well, why?
Somebody ought to... Well, we have.
I suppose you have.
We raised a little hell.
I talked to Lou, and he gets his...
syndicate manager, to call him.
And then they often publish it late.
They've done this to us before, but it's running everywhere else around the country.
Get a place, you'll see that it's circulated in... We're getting the one from last Thursday where it said that the public was now almost two to one approving your economic policies.
And I should think this one, but this one ought to be circulated to a few House and Senate guys.
And if they don't run the trial each next week, you've got to get a paper that does run it and get it around.
Well, he's in 180 newspapers, so we have no problem with that.
I see.
But if it's here, it's that much better.
Yeah, I see.
I think the...
No, he's doing the one on the trial heats for next Thursday.
That's right.
Come in.
Gallup.
Come in.
That's right.
Gallup had some trial heats today in Newsweek.
I don't know whether you saw that.
Were those his?
Yes, sir.
Those are Gallup's.
Are you sure?
Mm-hmm.
I'm not sure.
I don't think they...
They use various ones, Chuck.
Unless they said it was his.
I don't think they did.
I don't think they attributed that to anybody.
uh let's see i have the article right here i thought they did maybe i was mistaken i think it just uh it was kind of i thought it was no i don't think that is because he wouldn't just give it to them yes here it is but a special newsweek poll of the new voters conducted by the gallup organization oh i see that is his that's right provides for the first time a comprehensive view right right
I assume they're referring to the same poll.
They may not be, Mr. President.
I mean, when they go to the trial heat journey.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It says it, but it doesn't say it right by the trial heats.
It may be that it doesn't.
Right.
In any event, I thought it was very interesting because even though it is not as good as Harris's, it shows the same juxtaposition of Kennedy and Muskie.
That's right.
And I think it's kind of fascinating.
I think it is not as friendly to us as it should be, and...
I know.
They don't gallop.
You know, if it is gallop, they don't factor out as much of the youth as Harris does, which is one reason that it never shows up quite as well.
Sindlinger has his on Wednesday.
By the way, he called me today to say that he's now studied his poll results, and he's tremendously impressed because you are in exactly the same position you were in in August of 1968, right after you were nominated, in his analysis.
And
that the Democratic, he asks a second question.
He said, by the way, that you're today exactly where you were in August of 68, which was very strong, and went down during the campaign by eight points in his scale.
And that never came up.
He said that this is your most significant rise since you've been president.
And he said the significant thing is that on the other side,
opposition poll shows a great fragmentation.
He asked the question, who would you like to see President of the United States today?
49% say you, and then the rest all trail off in the 20s.
And then you get a few Agnews and Reagans.
But he regards it as a very, very strong showing.
And he goes over a base of several thousand people.
So it tends to be a pretty good poll.
Finch had quite a bullish report.
I don't know if Bob gave it to you on the Future Farmers meeting.
Finch spoke to them.
Did he give you a fill-in on that?
No, we didn't have time today.
We were on his trip.
Well, it was just.
Apparently, I had two of my fellows out there who were doing the youth recruiting.
Where did they do it, in Chicago?
I think in Kansas City.
Oh, yeah, that's probably more close.
You spoke to them?
Yeah, I spoke to them in Kansas City, I think.
I think they're in the same place.
But the fellows I had out there said it was just tremendous that Finch, when he mentioned you, kept getting a standing ovation.
And our boys met with the leaders of the organization, and they're very, very supportive.
That's one group that I think we're going to make enormous inroads in.
Yes, it was Kansas City, and it was last year.
Well, they could help us.
Well, that's a damn good group, and they're spread all out through the heartland.
I think that we'll
We'll make some progress for those fellas.
Right.
Apparently, Bob said he was quite taken aback because he was talking to a youth group and didn't expect it to be so friendly, and it was just enthusiastic as hell.
See if we can keep a few more of the young groups on that track.
Okay.
Well, we'll see you later.
We'll keep it going, sir.
Thank you.
NARA Description
On October 18, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and unknown person(s) talked on the telephone from 5:32 pm to 5:40 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 011-119 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 11-119
Date: October 18, 1971
Time: 5:32 pm - 5:40 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Charles W. Colson.
[See Conversation No. 291-19A]
69
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Summary of news stories
-The President's trip
-Wires
-Economic news
-Industrial production
-Council
-Federal Reserve
-Paul W. McCracken
-Housing starts
-Effect on employment
-Retail sales
-Automobiles
Edith Efron's book
-William L. Springer
-Sam J. Ervin, Jr. Committee
-Dean Burch
-Kevin P. Phillips
George H. Gallup figures
-Donald H. Rumsfeld
-Louis P. Harris
-Washington Post
-Harris
[The President conferred with an unknown person at an unknown time between 5:32 pm and
5:40 pm]
Entrance command
[End of conferral]
-Trial heats
-Newsweek
-Harris
-Edward M. Kennedy, Edmund S. Muskie
-Youth
-Albert E. Sindlinger
-Analysis of the President's poll standing
70
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Robert H. Finch
-Future Farmers of America meeting
-Chicago
-Kansas City
-Support for the President
-YouthAlso recorded on October 18, 1971
- 011-116 5:21 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:21 pm and 5:24 pm.
- 011-117 5:24 PM · 32 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon talked on the telephone from 5:24 pm to 5:25 pm.
- 291-017 5:24 PM · 33 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:24 pm to 5:25 pm.
- 011-118 5:25 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:25 pm and 5:32 pm.
- 291-018 5:25 PM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:25 pm and 5:32 pm.
- 291-019 5:32 PM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:32 pm to 5:40 pm.
- 011-120 5:40 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:40 pm and 5:54 pm.
- 011-121 5:40 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:40 pm and 5:54 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 011-119, October 18, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/011-119 (accessed September 18, 2026).