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Conversation 014-025

TapeTape 14StartWednesday, November 10, 1971 at 7:54 PMEndWednesday, November 10, 1971 at 8:03 PMTape start time00:24:57Tape end time00:34:38ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  White House operator;  Colson, Charles W.;  Eisenhower, Julie NixonRecording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles W. Colson discussed the national economy, focusing on the recent reduction of the discount rate by Arthur Burns and the ongoing volatility of the stock market. They reviewed the progress of Pay Board regulations, emphasizing the need to frame these policies to avoid the appearance of yielding to labor interests. Additionally, Colson reported on Frank Fitzsimmons' offer to provide intelligence gathered by labor investigators regarding Edward M. Kennedy, which the President encouraged him to pursue.

National EconomyPay BoardArthur F. BurnsStock MarketEdward M. KennedyFrank E. Fitzsimmons
AudioNARA Description

On November 10, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, Charles W. Colson, and Julie Nixon Eisenhower talked on the telephone from 7:54 pm to 8:03 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 014-025 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 14-25

Date: November 10, 1971
Time: 7:54 pm - 8:03 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with the White House operator.

     Charles W. Colson

The President talked with Colson.

     National economy
          -Money supply
                -The President's letter to Arthur F. Burns
                -Discount rate
          -Stock market
                -Activity
                      -Volume
                -Businessmen
                      -Consumers
                -Discount rate
                      -Colson's conversation with Daniel W. Hofgren
                           -Burns
                -Prospects
          -Eliot Janeway's prediction
          -Walter W. Heller
                -Statement on Pay Board
          -Stock market
                -President of Eastman Dillon

               -Conversation with Colson
          -Pay Board
               -Regulation
                    -Labor and business reactions
                    -Colson's conversation with Donald H. Rumsfeld, November 10
                    -Colson's meeting with Rumsfeld and George P. Shultz, November 10

     Campaign practices
         -Edward M. Kennedy
              -Frank E. Fitzsimmons conversation with Colson
                    -Fitzsimmons’ investigator
                    -White House investigator

*****************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/22/2022.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[014-025-w002]
[Duration: 2m 42s]

      Republican fund-raising dinners
            -Press coverage
                    -Demonstrations

      Rhode Island
            -Polls
                    -Becker
                           -Connecticut
                           -Poll taken on November 6, 1971 compared to February 1971
             -John H. Chafee and Claiborne Pell
             -Herbert F. DeSimone
                    -Gubernatorial campaign
             -Polls
                    -The President compared to Hubert H. Humphrey and George C. Wallace
                    -The President compared to Edmund S. Muskie and George C. Wallace
                    -The President compared to Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
                    -The President compared to George S. McGovern
                    -The President compared to John V. Lindsay
                    -New York
                    -Independents

                             -The President’s approval rating
                -Compared to Connecticut
                     -The President’s chances of winning
                     -Thomas J. Meskill
                             -Recent conversations with the President and Charles W. Colson

*****************************************************************

The President conferred with Julie Nixon Eisenhower at an unknown time.

     Entrance

[End of conferral]

     Polls
             -Sindlinger's view
                  -Economy
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yeah.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Well, what's the evening report?
Well, we, uh, looks like our little campaign, your campaign, or your pressure on Arthur Burns worked.
Oh, I noticed, yeah.
Dropped the discount rate today, which, uh, should be, uh, God, that should do something for these business folks.
Market dropped off again.
How much this time?
Eleven points.
What did it drop yesterday?
Yesterday was about even, I think, uh,
It's been steady for a couple of days.
It dropped 11 points today.
How many shares?
13 million.
Yesterday was a very light day, and of course 13 million is a light day nowadays.
What did they say the trouble was today?
Uncertainty about phase two or something like that?
No, I haven't been able to get a reading today, Mr. President.
The business fellows really are their culprit in this whole deal, completely.
And we're not going to worry about them.
No, because I think the consumer, well, maybe, but the business guys have got to start investing.
They create jobs.
Absolutely.
Well, this drop in the discount rate could be very significant.
I was told by Dan Hofgren, who's been working on this for me, organizing some pressure on Burns, that this was a very, very bullish thing.
Everybody reacted to this very excitedly today because it's kind of a signal to them that the price is going to be back.
It was after the market closed.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
It was after the market closed.
I was trying to see if I don't...
I know it was after the market closed.
I don't have the wire on it, but I'm sure it was.
It was for a clock.
Right.
But that's a very good sign.
On the market thing, there's a goddamn... Well, it's interesting that all of the smart people, all of the people on Wall Street whose judgment I respect from time to time,
have told me that it was going to go through this kind of a ringer.
I didn't believe them.
I suppose they didn't want to believe.
It would go through this kind of a ringer in the first couple of weeks of November.
And then about November 15th, they figured a big, starting up a big steady boop.
A lot of people getting liquid for that.
So you never know until it could be the manipulation of the smart money guys.
They know how to run the market.
Oh, the big guys know how to get it down.
to where they want it when they start their buying.
And they figure that there's a sustained growth coming next year, which every damn economist said.
They seem to say it, except for our friend, Newsweek's Elliott.
I don't think he's taken it very seriously.
But all the respected ones, including our Democratic friends,
who praised the decision of the people.
Did he?
Yes, sir.
And said that this was, he issued a very good statement yesterday.
You know, and view of that, what the Christ is the matter with the market?
What is the matter with it?
Can't figure this out.
No, unless it's what they call this, which, as I say, the president of Eastmanville is a sharp, tough,
an Irishman who worked his way up the hard way, a guy I know well, he said, don't, this was two weeks, three weeks ago, he said, don't worry about it.
It's going to go through this process.
The prices have been too high.
It's going to adjust back.
You know, the market reflects inflation and anticipates inflation.
Well, then they know that maybe they're reflecting the fact that inflation is down.
Well, exactly.
And you're not going to have the inflationary growth in the market if you have a real growth.
The Maybar thing is still standing up.
We're working hard at it, Mr. President.
The regulations that we had drafted, Labor, of course, likes them, and we'll keep Labor in mind, but we're having a little trouble now with the business and the public side, as we did before.
I just was talking to Rumsfeld.
What do you think of the regulations?
He's completely for it.
Schultz, Rumsfeld, and I met this morning.
All right.
If you're for them, then sell them.
That's what he's trying to do.
But not as a defeat.
You know, we can't make it appear as if it caved into labor.
That'd be rough.
No, it doesn't.
They're very cleverly written.
Some of us put our old corporate law hats back on it.
They're written in such a way that what it appears is you're just trying to achieve equity.
So it's not a cave-in at all.
The only thing is they'll be hassling in there tomorrow.
We just need to keep our...
Well, I think the Kennedy thing is what has me fascinated at the moment.
The way in which he's trying to, in every way obvious, step to the front.
By the way, Fitzsimmons told me that, interesting, he was in my office, I guess Monday night, after hours we were talking, and he said, by the way, he said,
He was commenting on Teddy, and he thought that Teddy was moving very fast.
He said, by the way, you fellows don't know half the story of Ted Kennedy.
And I said, really?
And he said, oh, I have more on him than you fellows ever dreamt of him, really.
And I said, well, how do we get it?
And he said, well, just give me an investigator.
I said, I'll give you everything we got.
He said, I keep trying to tell you that I'm for your man.
And he said, I'll give you the works.
He said, it's going to be on a trip to Las Vegas.
We've got a guy pursuing it.
You know, I never thought of that, but obviously they would watch it.
They would get that man.
Oh, God.
They've kept, they've really kept book on it.
They've got to put the investigator out.
I have, they're going to be meeting one day next week with people that Fitz was lining up with.
Yeah.
Or out of the country.
Of course, if you follow the Sinling Affair, it doesn't matter whether the economy is healthy.
It doesn't matter a damn.
He said, I can prove to you that it doesn't.
He went through all of his charities.
He's got fantastic charities.
He said, it's just whether they think that the president is trying to do something.
He said, if they do, and right now they do, there's a little wait and see in there.
If they think they do, if they think he is, that's what they care about.
And so from that standpoint, we're not as concerned as to how it does as we are how your pastor does.
It's okay.
But we'll get through tomorrow, and if we hold that one together, I think it's a good road ahead for us.
Thank you, sir.
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