On November 15, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 7:03 pm to 7:20 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 014-114 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Yeah.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Well, we had a pretty good day, Wood, shutting that Senate.
Well, that was a hell of a thing for you to have to waste your time on.
I just... Me?
Oh, it was great.
Yeah, no, I don't know whether you got a report, but I was nice to him, but I kicked a little bit of genius out of him.
Oh, you did?
I just felt badly that you had to involve yourself in such...
There was no choice that they had, and I was glad to put Mansfield right to the sword on him.
Well, he was put to the sword.
And now they've announced?
No, they're going to introduce the resolution.
They're going to do it tomorrow.
Tomorrow or Wednesday.
It doesn't make any difference now that they've said they're going to do it.
That's right.
I just got the report.
But don't you think it's good that we had him go up and down the hill?
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
My only regret was that you had to take time out of your day because it's a hell of a waste of time to have to listen to those jackass.
I think it's good, though, to have presidential leadership.
What do you think?
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
No, and I think you forced them to the wall and they caved in.
That's just exactly right.
They make you mad when you have to go through such a check.
Well, I must say, our fellows stood up while the mayhem was gray.
Ford and Scott and the rest.
Well, you put the wit to them.
No, they won't forget it.
No, no.
I did get a report.
We got it to him again.
Poor George Shultz was just exasperated.
He said, my God, he said, what a hell of a way to have to spend a day is to make these people be what is so elementary and so responsible.
But it's much better to do it than to have tried to horse around and skim by it another way and say, well, we'll try to, we'll just keep going.
We'll trust you.
Boy, we called them on it.
Hitting it head on.
They tried to bluff us, and we hit them.
Exactly the right way.
What's new on the other front?
Well, we've got a few.
The market's mixed today, they say.
Well, it's about the lowest volume I've ever seen.
It ended down a couple of points on 9 million shares.
They're just hanging on their edges, their seats up there, waiting for Conley tomorrow, which I think the market isn't going to move until Conley speaks.
He talks tomorrow night.
Actually, with the balance of payments deficit being announced...
It kind of makes Connolly look a hell of a lot better by being tough.
Yeah.
These guys on Wall Street.
Yeah.
I know that the Europeans.
I'm just a little more to Connolly than I do to some of these others.
I don't mean to panic too quickly here.
The average American doesn't give a shit about these boys.
No, they don't.
In fact, quite the other way, the politics works.
We will handle it.
We'll handle it for you.
We're going to make our deal.
As I say, anybody who reads that balance of payment story today, the $12 billion deficit in the third quarter, has to realize that Conley was doing the only thing this country could do.
That story is playing rather big.
They don't blame that on us.
That's why we did the August 15th.
Passer got that right in the third graph of the story.
He was great.
He said this proves exactly why the president had to do what he did, and it would have been a disaster if he hadn't.
No, he makes that point very well.
What else is new?
Well, Maurice Stans went out and did a job for us today, just as we asked him to.
He gave a hell of a speech to a business group here in town, the public relations people business.
He chided businessmen for not having the confidence the consumer has.
I'm just looking at the wire stories coming in for a hell of a speech.
We're hoping to get it replayed in the journal.
He talks about all the great consumer statistics and how the business community is sitting on their hands.
They ought to get off and start selling.
I think we'll get some play out of it.
I hope our little meeting with the cost of living comes to an end.
That's come over the news very well, Mr. President.
Yes, it was a damn good idea.
Of course, I haven't seen the networks, but on the wires, now I've just been working here, I haven't turned this on, but the wires play it very well.
The wires give it a darn good story.
Well, you know, George Allen, he said, you know why the market's going down?
That's why he said, well, these guys, they like to kid you.
He said, isn't it because they're uncertain?
He said, they think phase two is going to work.
They think that basically that prices are going to be down, and that inflation's not going to be there, and they're just getting the market ready for it.
He says, that's what it is.
And I think he's exactly right.
And I, you know what I think, Chuck?
We're really building for a much stronger, more healthy economy.
That's my answer to that question.
I should have gotten more employees.
That's what Allen said.
You know, the answer to the question on Friday, the chief, he had said he'd seen an excellent review of it.
I didn't see it, but he said it was pretty good.
Good comments over the weekend, generally in the financial press and the news magazines played it well.
No, you're absolutely right.
You know, I was amused.
You sent me a copy of Paul McCracken's memo to you on retail sales.
And Jesus Christ, if a man could take information and make it sound less interesting and less encouraging than that.
And I just had fun with Paul today.
I sent him up a copy of the...
lead outlook article in the Wall Street Journal this morning.
How was that?
And I just, I asked him how he explained this in view of his memo to you that I was very confused.
Well, he said that it's one of the most superb articles that has yet appeared, and I've sent you a copy of it because it's really worth reading in full.
It says that, I'll read it, hidden behind the figures are the sales of consumer durables, which are now 31% above last year.
And it goes on to talk about how retail sales are heading 8% to 10% higher, that everybody is planning a huge Christmas season.
All the surveys of retailers show that the big worry they now have is shortages of merchandise.
Michael thinks that.
Well, the ending.
Oh, and that happened.
Damn inventory.
Well, once that happens, that's all it takes is something like that.
And that business rushes out.
starts producing like hell.
They don't like to be caught without products.
But this is written by O'Reilly, who writes the weekly output.
He's good, I know.
He's damn good.
I wish you'd get him in.
Well, we really should.
Get him in.
Just say, I'd just like to say hello to you.
I will, sir.
I'd like to see what he looks like.
He's been great with us.
His conclusion here is that the expansive forces that are at work in the economy right now
He says it doesn't matter what business is saying.
They're confused and they don't understand it.
But the expansive courses are there.
And the fork of uncertainty is going to lift a lot sooner than they expect.
And when they do, they're going to see the economy booming.
It's a hell of an article.
And he bases it completely on what we talked about over the weekend, the retail sales and the consumer.
And I've got to read it.
What was the, incidentally, the...
With regard to my press statement, that generally, according to Allen, was played extremely well.
Very well, Mr. President.
What you've been is all over the country.
Not only the papers, but he's got the notes.
But he meant the style of it somewhere, and he made some comments on that.
He thought it was confident.
He's, of course, a great believer in how the man looks.
Right.
Apparently, some of them carried that out.
Well, they did in both of the news magazines today.
even though we don't pay much attention to them.
They both gave you high points on the press conference.
Hi, Mark.
How'd they handle it?
Well, let's see.
Yeah, as the president spoke, this is Newsweek.
As the president spoke, he exuded confidence, conveying the impression of a man still riding high in his foreign policy coups.
Kept his secret so well.
Mr. Nixon's self-assurance was not unfounded.
This is Timer.
That's Newsweek.
And then Time had similar comments.
They said that the President had tart answers for tart questions about other facets of the war.
Went on to your amnesty question, and then sliding into Vietnam, saying that the Nixon Doctrine is that Cambodia is the Nixon Doctrine in purest form.
You know, that's really damn good.
They picked up our good answers.
Yes, they did.
Then Time says he stopped short of announcing what the force levels would be next year.
And it was a shrewd move.
And then goes on to explain why it was a shrewd move, including all your options on it.
So they both played a role.
Now, you know, that's good for us, John.
Yes, it is.
And as much as those bastards take to give us any credit, when you are in as superb form as you were on Friday, they have to.
Because American people see it, and if they turn around and pan it,
they lose their credibility.
Even though this wasn't on television.
Well, a lot of people see that.
They have to do it.
They have to.
I think it's the same reason, Mr. President, that we've had very little Democratic criticism.
Muskie did his general criticism of the war last night, but he didn't direct it at the press conference or at you.
So basically, we are doing a good job.
It's not that, you know, I've got all of the men coming to the House, all of the mayors, all of the mayors.
But at this point, I just can't believe the House is going to do it.
I can't.
Not on that amendment.
It would be a terrible thing.
In the final analysis, I cannot see the House doing that.
You know, that's the same amendment that was beaten in the Senate.
That's basically Cooper Church.
And I just don't believe that the House will go for that.
And especially, as a matter of fact, with the timing of your press conference, the way it was, I think that was good we had it.
Oh, Jesus.
You know, let me ask you this.
I was thinking about having a televised press conference this week, next week.
I'm not inclined to do it.
I'm inclined to think that you should let this rise.
Well, I was going to say the week after Thanksgiving is a hell of a lot better than Thanksgiving week.
Do you think so?
Yes, I do.
Let's get through Thanksgiving.
That's not a good...
The week of the 22nd is not a good week.
I would think the week after...
I think that first week in December, the week after...
The week before Thanksgiving is not a good time.
No, it isn't.
No, it isn't.
You have a lot of people who are, well, it's a holiday atmosphere, and you have a lot of people who are traveling, and they're just not thinking about where they settled out for a couple of weeks before the holiday season.
And that times nicely because there is that day program that the Chancellor is having at the ICC, which is excellent.
And that comes, hopefully, mid-December, so press conference early would be the month it began to.
Well, okay.
Good housing figures coming tomorrow, Mr. President.
Oh, what is that?
Well, let's back up.
Remember, it dipped a little bit in September, and it's back up now over two million a year.
And interestingly, the permits for new construction have been hit in October, the all-time one-month high, the highest single month in history.
And that's kind of encouraging, because the permits for new construction...
kind of tell you something about the direction that it'll keep going.
So that's more of that consumer, you know, that consumer trend is great.
All right, that is good.
Well... Oh, yes.
And incidentally, I would not be concerned about this market.
I'd like to get it down a bit.
Well, I think it's a very good time to take the water out of it.
Take the water out.
I really believe this inflation theory.
Alan was just categorical.
And this guy bets big money.
He said that's what it is.
He's just not betting on inflation anymore.
Sure, if you think so, the market's got to come down.
Exactly right.
And that is healthy.
If we then get a healthy growth, that's what it ought to be.
Okay.
Thank you, Mr. President.