Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 18 › Conversation 018-006
Nixon phone call with an unidentified caller on State of the Union address
Monday, January 3, 1972 · 11:42 AM–12:05 PM ET · White House Telephone
AI Summary
In this extensive series of phone calls, President Nixon coordinates legislative and public relations strategy for the upcoming State of the Union address and the administration's Vietnam policy. He consults with key officials including Secretary of State William Rogers, Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird, and Henry Kissinger to finalize the decision to announce a further troop reduction to 69,000. Additionally, the President manages personnel matters, such as selecting Kenneth Rush as a successor, while also directing staff to launch a public campaign framing Senator Edmund Muskie as a proponent of busing.
- State of the Union address
- Vietnam War
- troop withdrawal
- Edmund Muskie
- Kenneth Rush
- public relations strategy
- presidential staff
Audio
Download MP3 (part 1) · 111.8 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 111.7 MB ·Download MP3 (part 3) · 57.9 MB
This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 00:08:15 into the tape and ends around 00:08:49.
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
0:59Secretary Rogers, please.
1:01Secretary Rogers?
1:02Yes, Mr. President.
1:05Yeah.
1:05Secretary Rogers.
1:07Bill, at the meeting at 3.30 today, I'm going to attend, and actually I'll open it, and then I'm going to turn to you to share it in a sense.
1:20The main purpose of it is basically to give Peterson a chance to sing on his stuff.
1:24Right.
1:26But the thing I want you to know is
1:29that I feel, and I know Connolly feels it strongly, too.
1:32He will not be here.
1:33We're inviting Volker.
1:36But I want to do everything we can, like at, say, your level, and Connolly's and the rest indicate that we're for all this, but I don't want to get us in the position that we have to carry it, because it's got about a chance of a snowball on hell at this point for us to...
1:55to get in, you know, to reduce tariff barriers and all that sort of thing.
1:59You know what I mean?
1:59Yes, well, I don't think we can.
2:01You mean you think we ought to go ahead and propose it as an administration?
2:05The whole point is to set up
2:07But Peterson is that.
2:08He wrote me a long memorandum.
2:09We need a legislative strategy because, of course, he's coming off of what we said at the Azars, where we said we'd have preferential to this and that, general preferences.
2:19And the point is that you handle it in such a skillful way that, you see, you get what I mean.
2:25Sure, I do.
2:26Let's kill it without getting caught at it.
2:28I do, I do.
2:29And I've talked to Peterson.
2:32I said, now, look here.
2:33I wrote him a little memorandum and talked to him, and I said...
2:37this doesn't have a chance, and we've got to handle it skillfully.
2:39We've got to be for it because of our European friends and the rest.
2:42But on the other hand, we cannot move in this direction during an election year because we've got the labor unions against us, the politicians will be against us, and so we're for free trade, but we don't do a hell of a lot about it.
2:55Don't you agree with that?
2:56Absolutely.
2:57And now, on the other hand, what I meant is what you say and the rest of
3:04You've got to say the right things, that I understand.
3:08Well, of course, Mr. President, on the general proposition, the long-range view, we've got this committee of OECD studying the long-range trade matters, and we've got negotiations going with the community and with the Japanese.
3:22This is not the time, really, to go for legislation.
3:24uh maybe next year you're after something the other thing too is that i uh i've invited that fellow everly but i don't know whether he's in town if he is why he'll be here but otherwise it'll just be you and you stands and uh what time is the meeting 3 30.
3:40Well, we had to move it at 3.30 because the others couldn't come.
3:43I'll come over if I may on the Jerry Smith one.
3:46I'd like to sit in on that.
3:4810 o'clock?
3:48Yeah, yeah.
3:51You mentioned that last night.
3:53The other thing you should know is that Fred Eaton called me this morning, and he's all set to go ahead if we're prepared to.
4:03I still feel the way you do.
4:04I think it's too much of a chance.
4:07Yeah, I think it's going to be a disappointment to him.
4:09But Bill, they'll kill him.
4:11I think so, too.
4:12They'll kill him.
4:13And second, he's too old.
4:16a little bloated and so forth and so on on this willis armstrong i mentioned to him uh to you him to you the other day head of our economic assistant secretary of state uh i put it all with your people over there and they're all enthusiastic about it can i go ahead and announce it you want to announce it over there however which way you go ahead i'll say that you plan to send his name up yeah you might say too that i
4:41that I've known him for, if you don't mind, in the background.
4:45I'd really rather have you put it out over there, Mr. President, if you will.
4:49Well, maybe we should.
4:51I tell you, you prepare it, because after all, I've known the fellow since I was in England years ago.
4:57We might just announce that he's going to go on.
5:01He's a top-notch fellow in the business.
5:02People like him very much.
5:04He's the executive director of the International Chamber of Commerce.
5:08So I think you'd be very good for that.
5:09Yeah.
5:10All right, fine.
5:11I'll see you at 10 o'clock.
5:13No, incidentally, make that 10.30, because I've got to get McGregor in here first.
5:20Okay.
5:21So make the 10.30 with Smith.
5:24Thank you very much, Mr. Smith.
5:25Bye.
5:30Mr. Warren, please.
5:32Chair Warren?
5:32Yeah.
5:33Thank you, Mr. President.
5:36hello mr warren mr president sir yeah with regard to the announcement of the state of the union uh i was wondering if that had been done or uh it had not yet been announced mr president i was holding off it's going to be the 20th at noon i've definitely decided it uh now uh i don't know when you can
5:57Bob had told me this morning to hold off.
5:59I think there's some congressional relations work to be done.
6:03Yeah.
6:03All right, fine.
6:04Well, it can go forward any time that's completed.
6:07Very good, sir.
6:08Thank you.
6:15Could you get me Mr. Smith?
6:17He is, I think you've got his number, is being inaugurated as mayor in some little town in Iowa, Irishire.
6:27The number is 712-426-2185.
6:27426-2185?
6:27Yeah.
6:27Mayor Smith, Mr. President?
6:29Yeah.
6:30Fine, sir.
6:30Thank you.
6:31Mr. President, Mayor Jody Smith for you.
6:34Hello.
6:34There you are.
6:44Hello?
6:44Hello.
6:45Mr. Mayor?
6:46Yes.
6:47I just want to congratulate you on the day of your inauguration.
6:50Thank you.
6:51And as the youngest mayor in the country, winning on a very exciting campaign, I'm sure that you're going to do a fine job.
7:03I mean, your town isn't one of the largest, but it has all the problems, I'm sure, that other towns have, and at least this is the beginning.
7:11I just wish you the very best.
7:13Well, I'm trying and...
7:17I want you to know that I support what you've been trying to do for the country.
7:20Well, I appreciate it.
7:22I understand that you work part-time as a bus driver, right?
7:26Yes, and I referee basketball and baseball.
7:29Did you play basketball and baseball, too?
7:31No, I'm too clumsy.
7:33Yeah, well, so am I. I never made the team.
7:36And you worked in your father's garage.
7:39Yes.
7:40Well, I worked in a service station, my father's service station, so we had something in common.
7:46And it won't do you a bit of harm.
7:48It'll teach you what people are thinking.
7:50Right.
7:51Well, I just wish you the very best.
7:53And when you take your oath, you can tell them that I sent my congratulations, will you?
8:00And I hope that Iowa will be able to see you if you are a candidate again next year at the Republican National Convention.
8:05I'm going to try to be a delegate for the state of Iowa.
8:07I see.
8:08I see.
8:09Well, I'll sure look forward.
8:10Well, you don't have to be a delegate to come.
8:11You'll come anyway.
8:12San Diego's a nice place at that time of year.
8:14Well, I'd like to be a delegate.
8:16I see.
8:17Right.
8:18Well, good luck to you.
8:19Thank you.
8:26But you get me a George Allen, please.
8:30The George Allen of... At the Redskins?
8:33No, no, no, no, no.
8:34No, not that one.
8:35Big George, the fat George.
8:37You know, the one that's a friend of President Eisenhower's.
8:41Okay, sorry.
8:42Not the, there's several.
8:45One is with the tobacco industry, one's with the redskin, and the other one is, what's it called, George Allen.
8:51He's in a brokerage firm or a law firm.
8:54All right, sir.
8:57Thank you.
8:59Hello.
9:00Hello.
9:00Here is Mr. Allen.
9:02Yeah.
9:02I hope you can take it now.
9:03Hello?
9:04President?
9:05Hello?
9:07Mr. Allen?
9:08Hello?
9:08Yes, Mr. President.
9:10George?
9:10Yes, sir.
9:11I wanted to ask you, I was trying to remember, George Shultz came in with a final budget.
9:16What that Harry Hopkins story was about leaning on the shovel?
9:20Oh, yes.
9:23Harry said, uh...
9:27They sent in a requisition for about 5,000 shovels.
9:32Oh, yes.
9:33And Harry wired them back, let them lean on each other.
9:36Oh, let them lean on each other.
9:37All right, I got it, I got it.
9:38I want them to give the budget boys they're just having there to go through the agony.
9:43I'm going to say, let them lean on each other.
9:45That's a good thing.
9:47Mr. President, I think you're just going great.
9:50I'm so proud of you.
9:51Well, thank you, George.
9:52Thank you.
9:52Okay, just keep it up.
9:53I just wish you a happy new year.
9:55I wish you just a happy new year.
9:58You saw you're still the most popular man.
10:01That's great.
10:02That's only, George, because you're president, you know.
10:07That's the one they know.
10:09I think Billy Graham being second shows that it's a kind of a change in atmosphere.
10:14Yeah.
10:14Well, you know, I noticed some of our usual critics were squealing about the fact I had them to bomb a few targets in North Vietnam.
10:30You know, that'll pay off in the end because you know what it means.
10:33You've been so right.
10:34Well, the point is that we did it so that we can continue our withdrawal.
10:37We're not going to let those clowns get down there and kill a few Americans.
10:40That's right.
10:41Well, look, we had one man killed last week.
10:43That's right.
10:44That's right.
10:45Well, good to talk to you, George.
10:47Ms. Nixon seems to be doing a good job.
10:50She had a terrific reception.
10:52Well, I'll remember that now, and I'll call George Schultz.
10:55Yeah, just tell him that Harry Hopper, they wired in for 5,000 shovels.
11:00Yeah, yeah.
11:00And Harry says, just let them lean on each other.
11:03They wired in from out some office.
11:05Yeah, some state office.
11:07Yeah.
11:08A requisite.
11:09I'll say that California wired in.
11:11Yeah, California wired in.
11:13All right, fine.
11:13Thank you.
11:14Thank you.
11:15Okay.
11:17Yes, sir?
11:18Would you set up a conference call, get Schultz and Weinberger on the other lines?
11:23Can you do that?
11:23Right, surely.
11:24Hello?
11:27Yes?
11:28Mr. Schultz and Mr. Weinberger.
11:30Hello?
11:30Yes, sir.
11:31Well, I just got called to talk to George.
11:33I'm on the story better than I thought.
11:36back in the 30s in the early and Harry Hopkins was here and he was in charge of PWA or WPA I don't know which it was but one of those two he got a wire desperately from the PWA director in California asking for approval of a requisition for 5,000 shovels and Hopkins said
12:04ripped off a wire back to him, said, tell them to lean on each other.
12:09So you tell Laird to have them lean on each other.
12:12Fair enough.
12:13Very good, sir.
12:14Now that's the laugh for the year, and you can pass it to all the staff, Cap.
12:17Thank you.
12:18Okay.
12:18Very good.
12:19Thanks a lot.
12:20Yes, please.
12:23Appreciate it, please.
12:24Thank you.
12:28Mr. Butterfield?
12:29Is Patricia on for the president?
12:30All right, he'll be on in just a moment.
12:32Can she hold a second?
12:33She's holding.
12:34All right, good.
12:35Alex?
12:35No.
13:00the Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, Dr. Kissinger,
13:33Hello?
16:23We've had good reactions on the show last night.
16:25You must have.
16:25You really must have.
16:26Who did you hear from who really liked it?
16:28Oh, the usual types.
16:29I mean, actually, the Rogers.
16:31Did you hear from Kissinger?
16:32Yeah.
16:33Oh, of course, Rogers and Kissinger and Elliot Richardson and so forth.
16:38They all thought he was a bastard.
16:41But they thought that helped.
16:43I said, well, basically, the Smith program was so much better because the questions were so much better.
16:48They said, no, but it wasn't as good from our standpoint because this is better when you have a bastard doing it.
16:52Well, you know, in a way it's really true.
16:54I thought, first of all, Eddie just couldn't believe it.
16:57He said that...
16:59that that the questions were all antagonistic and that and that he was rude he interrupted you and he did it about five different points right in the middle of what you were saying he kept interrupting and saying but but but what you just don't do i mean you can ask an antagonist but then you have to wait he was trying that he'll be the worst question that most blatant was where he said well you're didn't you plan to end the war oh you mean postpone the war and postpone going to moscow and post going i was awfully glad you brought
17:26out the thing about the bombing, too, in 68.
17:29Right.
17:30That was a good thing to bring out.
17:33But my God, doesn't he realize that you've been working for two and a half years on these things?
17:37That's what I told him.
17:38What does he think you do?
17:39You change a policy overnight?
17:40That's what I told him.
17:41That's right.
17:41That's what you told him.
17:43And then I also like the thing you said about the future generations, you know, that you had to plan for them.
17:50And also, then I also like the thing you said that...
17:54piece is too important to postpone i think those are your exact words yeah that might be that quote might you know be my last yeah that was that was a very memorable quote and of course your answer on the blacks was great too the black thing i don't know where he ever does when he says i never heard when i said that the black i don't think you ever said that anyway no i i only would have said it in the context of something else well exactly this is another thing eddie brought up because you know he's using as far as money he said you just don't fling something
18:26context, because otherwise, it just sounded very dubious, the whole thing.
18:31He was an absolute bastard, though.
18:33I couldn't believe it.
18:34I have never heard anyone worse.
18:37I didn't realize what he meant, but that Ms. thing at the end, because I hadn't read that book or the story, but I slid off of it all right.
18:47That was one of the things I marked out as being a good answer and especially outstanding answers.
18:53The freedom of choice.
18:54I just said, well, I... Oh, that's endearing, but that was fun that you do what people wanted, which is good.
19:03And that also people...
19:04to have a freedom of choice.
19:05Yeah, that's right.
19:06That was how you concluded the answer, which was a lousy way to end the program on his part.
19:12You know, it was a stupid question to ask at the end, but I thought that that was a very good answer under difficult circumstances.
19:18Well, anyway...
20:14Secretary Rogers.
20:15Thank you, Mr. President.
20:16Hello.
20:17Hello, Mr. President.
20:19Bill, I forgot to mention one thing to you.
20:23Is Manolo gone?
20:28Oh, he went away.
20:31Okay, fine.
20:34I was going to say that Flanagan...
20:41or I guess you or somebody has reported that Fred Eaton now wants to take the job.
20:47Well, I just wanted you to know that my view is for reasons that have nothing to do with the conflict that he is.
20:55I agree with you.
20:56You know what I mean?
20:57On the other hand, I think that...
21:01It's got to be handled very discreetly, and I would hope that you would, to the effect that you've made the check and that we figure there's just going to be a hell of a fight and we think we better not do it.
21:11How do you think we can do it?
21:12Sure, sure.
21:13Because I can easily see, maybe you tell him, I can easily see that he just isn't the man for the job.
21:21I think that's right.
21:22The age and everything else.
21:24I can handle it.
21:24I'll just put it on.
21:25He left it up to us, and I'll just take the responsibility, and I'll say I've checked it out, and I think we've run into a fight.
21:31Nobody would tell us any time.
21:32I don't know what happened that he decided all of a sudden he's...
21:37And Vince Lee wants to take it.
21:38Maybe they went on the mountaintop and thought it would be a great idea.
21:42But my god.
21:44And incidentally, it isn't really quite that.
21:50because there would be a hell of a fight.
21:52Oh, there's no doubt about it.
21:53Yeah, and we just think that it would be, we just decided the fight's going to be too rough and that we need somebody there now and so forth.
22:00What I thought I might tell him, but I want to get your approval, is to say that, you know, for 10 months, and that's what we're talking about between now and election, it would probably be a hell of a lot through four months.
22:11So we wouldn't get there for six months.
22:13That's right.
22:14And also that there are very important things going on right now, and that we need them right now.
22:19Well, what would you think about sort of leaving out the hope that after election that you'd like to consider him for something else, consider him for high post?
22:28absolutely absolutely you could say that immediately afterwards that I think that we'd have no problem at all and that I think that you want to talk to him after that I'd like to and that that also because after that we we would hope to have a mandate and with that we we wouldn't have these fights that these fights always apparently are going to occur in election year and we've talked
22:49You don't want to reveal the sources, but we've talked to the people we have utter confidence in, and that's that.
22:53I'll do that.
22:54This is no problem then.
22:56Peter mentioned a fellow named Ingersoll.
22:58Do you know him from Fort Warner?
23:00Yes, he's a good man.
23:01Another one that occurred to me was the Peterson that did the trade thing.
23:06He's already in the other job as president.
23:08Oh, the U.N.?
23:08I had forgotten that.
23:11I'd forgotten that.
23:12It's all been announced and everything.
23:14In fact, I think he's sworn in today or something.
23:16Ingersoll would be good.
23:18The difficulty is he's not the strongest man in the world.
23:22He'd be a good man.
23:25His father was the strong man.
23:27He's a hell of a fellow, and this guy's a sweet guy, a really wonderful guy.
23:32Well, let's not get anybody that's too sweet.
23:34I think you need somebody that's not.
23:36And I'd just like to get a little feel.
23:38I don't know.
23:38I think Pete ought to check a little.
23:40with a few tough Illinois types to see really how tough he really is.
23:45Okay.
23:45And there was one other that, did Pete mention you?
23:47I mentioned it.
23:48He mentioned John McCone, but I don't really, he's too old.
23:51He's over 70.
23:52Forget it.
23:54Well, Ingersoll, take a look at him yourself.
23:57Will you do that?
23:58Yes, I will.
23:59Because we could consider him for something else.
24:01He is a very good friend of mine.
24:03He's a hell of a fellow.
24:04Now, another one, of course, who would be great is Galvin.
24:08The difficulty is that I think that John Mitchell sitting right here, I think we want to keep him in Illinois.
24:14John, isn't that correct?
24:16Let me ask John, do you know Ingersoll?
24:19Could he do Japan?
24:25John thinks Ingersoll could do Japan.
24:28Let me just put it this way.
24:29You get a hold of Pete, and then say, bring him in, and you look him over, and if you think he can do it, let's go with him.
24:36Fair enough?
24:37He's a, he's a, well, got to.
24:39Let me see, what kind of a company does he have?
24:41Boyd Warner.
24:42Does that pose any problem?
24:44I don't think so.
24:45No, no, no.
24:46Ambassadors are no conflict of interest, and they probably don't do, I hope, not much business.
24:52It's a good company, though.
24:53Yeah.
24:53All right.
24:55All right.
24:55That'll be fine.
24:56Well, I'll take care of Eaton.
24:57Fine.
24:58Okay.
24:58Thank you.
24:59But promise him something afterwards.
25:01Oh, I will.
25:02Tell him that I would very much like for him to consider a post afterwards.
25:05You know, he'd be good for NATO, you know, or something like that.
25:10Or something else.
25:11Right.
25:11Fine.
25:12All right.
25:12Fine, Mr. Benton.
25:17Hello?
25:18Mr. President, Dr. Pilsinger had gone away, but we are trying to contact him, and I'll call you as soon as I reach him.
25:33Hmm.
25:34Well, that's not too much trouble.
25:36If you could get him in a half hour, you could call me.
25:39All right.
25:45Yes, please.
25:47Dr. Kissinger, please.
25:48Thank you.
25:49Hello.
25:49Dr. Kissinger on the line, Mr. President.
25:53Hello.
25:56I wanted to wish you a happy birthday.
25:57Oh, thanks, Henry.
25:58Thank you.
25:59How's the weather?
25:59Any better?
26:00Yes, it's warming up now.
26:02I hope so, yeah.
26:04And it's... Is the sun shining or is it foggy?
26:06The sun is shining.
26:07That's good.
26:08That's good.
26:09Very pleasant.
26:10Well, let's see.
26:10It's 10 o'clock out there, so it ought to be... You ought to have a very good day.
26:15Good.
26:16What I was calling you about is about...
26:23the announcement on Wednesday.
26:27I thought it might be... Is it Wednesday or Thursday?
26:29Well, it's the 12th.
26:30I don't know.
26:31I thought it was the 13th, but it makes no difference.
26:33Well, it doesn't make any difference.
26:35We'll see.
26:38I'll have to check here to see how it fits with that, or we'll do it one of the two days, the 12th or 13th, but any of them.
26:45It occurs to me that it might be well to...
26:53so that I don't want to be questioned at all.
26:58But on the other hand, the defense always gives a little briefing on those things, don't they?
27:03Yes.
27:04Why would it not be to have Laird come over, and then I just walk out with him and say, I'm announcing this, and the secretary will brief the press on the details.
27:13It lets him get in the show a little bit, the act.
27:18He'll be doing it anyway, and...
27:20I'll talk to him about what he shouldn't and shouldn't say.
27:23Do you think that's a good idea?
27:25I see no problem with that.
27:26Yeah.
27:27He'll probably like it.
27:28Well, it gives him a little, you know, some credit for his Vietnamization policies.
27:36All he has to be sure he's on the right track with regard to any questions about POWs and so forth, which he usually has handled those well, though.
27:48Yeah.
27:51And that sounds like a good idea to you.
27:53That sounds like a good idea.
27:54Second point.
27:55I don't have to worry about it taking credit.
27:58Oh, well, there's no, at this point, I don't think the credit's to... No, I think it's a nice credit.
28:04You see, at this point, on the other hand, it isn't a hell of a lot of difference.
28:07We've moved along, and those efforts have been rather pitiful anyway, you know.
28:16They haven't gotten across, do you think, very well.
28:18No, I think it's a tender... Yeah.
28:22Now, did you get to him first?
28:25Does he know about this announcement yet, the number?
28:28I'm going to be talking to him in a little while.
28:31Fine.
28:31Well, that'll give you...
28:33Right.
28:34Now, when you talk to him, you can talk about this and say, let's hold it, and then the idea that he would go over and that I'll make the announcement in one sentence and then turn the...
28:51press over to him for the briefing on it, and that he would say that we would, you know, you can sort of start with that.
28:57That'll soften him up for the rush thing.
28:59Right.
29:00And then that we, that I think that then just ask him to maybe check with Higg or somebody on our, I don't know, give him a couple of talking points with regard to the negotiation side so that he'll, what about the next announcement, what will be made during the month of April?
29:21May 1st.
29:23Will it be a final announcement where the President pointed out that there can be no final withdrawal until we have settled the POW matter?
29:32What about negotiation?
29:33I'm not going to go beyond what the President's already said.
29:37And, well, what about the withdrawal?
29:39That's the deadline.
29:42Gentlemen, you saw what they said last.
29:43He ought to really make hard that point.
29:46I... Light advantage in doing it on Thursday, that they can't comment on it at the next day, then.
29:52Yeah.
29:53That's fine.
29:54It's all right with me.
29:57Thursday's a good day, then, if that's the case.
30:00Just ream it to them right there.
30:03All right.
30:05And so you can call him.
30:06Now, on the rush thing, I think...
30:08I talked to Mitchell about the run yesterday.
30:11He thinks we ought to go ahead with it.
30:13He does.
30:13And he thinks that Laird's opposition can be overcome.
30:16Well, the point is that this is basically the kind of a man Laird has been looking for.
30:21He just looks at his qualifications, but he has the advantage of knowing all about MBFR and SALT, right?
30:29Oh, yeah.
30:30And that is an enormous advantage for whoever's in that position.
30:34And he knows the Germans.
30:36That's right.
30:38You know, he doesn't know the Defense Department as well.
30:41He's a much superior person.
30:43And you can say that he admires Laird.
30:46You know, I'll give him a little of that.
30:48He's a hard-line follower.
30:49He's what we need.
30:51And he's a good, loyal man.
30:56We've also found that he's been impeccably
30:58discreet and loyal as never really can you might say that to laird that'll impress the hell out of them okay well what else is new do you have any other conversations while i was gone we have uh one uh the question is muji is coming going back to delhi and to dhaka today yeah and the question is whether any of our diplomats should be at the airport
31:28I've told him to check with Islamabad to find out.
31:32I don't see that we can make a hell of a lot of points at this point.
31:38Well, I don't know what...
31:41He's been released by...
31:42He's been released by Butoh.
31:45But he is... Is Butoh... You know, that's the other thing, I suppose, that whatever we do with regard to...
31:57the bangladesh that pretty much will resolve itself if the pacts uh recognize it won't it yeah if the pacts recognize it then we are home free yeah and that's what i think they're going to do and that's what i suspect they're going to do yeah but what about as far as muji was concerned uh what would be the what would be the point in going there going to read it to he's not uh well because i the presumption is that every other diplomat in delhi and
32:24uh one possibility is that instead of the ambassador the political counselor goes to the airport so that we are represented yeah well it doesn't cost us anything let the counselor go but i wouldn't until until he otherwise you're giving them de facto recognition that's one of the problems and of course the chinese and now that we've paid already this heavy price yeah well i don't want to fall over right away that's the point
32:53We'll eventually have to go that way.
32:55We know that.
32:56No question about it.
32:57But I don't think we need to fall all over him right at the beginning.
33:00We have to go this way, and he will have to come our way.
33:03Yeah.
33:04And if, of course, the Pakistanis recognize it, that doesn't matter.
33:11That's right.
33:13but if we could hold it until we've been in china in only four more weeks why don't we just let the political counselor go i mean we want to do it at the highest level because after all he is not yet a government we recognize that's the point i think uh
33:32That would be my reaction, but I don't feel too damn strong about it.
33:36I don't think it's going to make that much difference.
33:39Except in a negative way.
33:40In a positive way, we can't get to any points.
33:44Yeah, yeah, I'm...
33:50Okay, and nothing else, no other reports from Haig?
33:55He's probably on his way back now.
33:56He's out of contact because in Hangzhou, he had to go down by train to Hangzhou because they are rebuilding the airport.
34:05And so he's out of communications now until he leaves tomorrow morning.
34:11Mm-hmm.
34:11In fact, at least tonight our time.
34:14Sure.
34:14He gets back Monday or Tuesday, doesn't he?
34:16He's coming back Monday afternoon.
34:18Boy, he'll be tired.
34:19Oh, that's a killer.
34:21Yeah, yeah.
34:22That's a real killer.
34:24Yeah.
34:24Do it in one job.
34:27I see nothing else, particularly in the morning papers, that are of interest.
34:30No, I'm glad.
34:32Yeah.
34:34I just looked him over here.
34:36There's the Maltese and the British.
34:39It now looks as if the British are really determined to get out.
34:42Is that right?
34:43And the Italians, that he's really, there's something wrong with that guy.
34:47Yeah, you think so?
34:49I mean, he just is bullheaded to a point where it becomes almost an end in itself.
34:57And we can't let the Russians have a naval base there.
35:01What the hell can we do about it?
35:02Well, we're going to try to see whether NATO will turn it into a NATO base.
35:07The Italians are very concerned.
35:10I see.
35:11And on Tuesday, we're going to see whether we can turn up a NATO offer.
35:23And we've told this to the British, and the British owe us an answer.
35:27I see.
35:30We haven't.
35:30We won't do it without getting their answer.
35:33What the hell?
35:33I can't understand why the British would want to give up any of the balance of their power, wherever it is.
35:41Well, it's turned into a personal contest between Heath and Minter.
35:44Yeah.
35:57Hmm.
35:57Hmm.
36:00Well, that's interesting.
36:03It's pretty hard with all the problems we've got Henry to have to have them all the two, isn't it?
36:07That's right.
36:09Almighty.
36:11The Italian government looks as if it's going to fall, so you'll be spared a trip, a visit by the Italians.
36:18Why is it going to fall?
36:22The Republican Party has withdrawn from the coalition, and that's going to bring them all down.
36:28Oh, God.
36:29Well, it always happens after a presidential campaign, election day.
36:33Then what do they have to do?
36:34Have parliamentary elections?
36:35No, no.
36:36But they now have a four-week ticker about... Who's going to be the next prime minister?
36:42Right.
36:42I mean, they'll have to... Well, we don't have to see them then, do we?
36:45We have.
36:46We offered them the 25th, but I don't think it lasts until the 25th.
36:50Yeah.
36:53Right.
36:54So I think we may be home free.
36:56Yeah.
36:58And if he falls, it should be around the 18th or 19th.
37:01Yeah.
37:03And then they can't have a government before we leave for P.K.
37:06Right.
37:10Well, that's fine.
37:11Okay.
37:12Right.
37:12Well, I hope you get a little sun and get everybody gone.
37:17It ought to be peaceful out there.
37:19Right.
37:19Well, we're all working on the end.
37:20Okay.
37:21Bye.
37:22I hope you have a pleasant day.
37:23Thank you.
37:28Yes, please.
37:29Colson, please.
37:29Thank you, sir.
39:14Immediately, of course, he reacted to your space shuttle announcement by saying it was a boondoggle.
39:20And, of course, then went to Florida, where it's one of the most popular things in the Cape Kennedy area.
39:28What do they think down there?
39:33What press?
39:34You mean the Florida Press?
39:36Of course, it's Florida and California.
39:40This is a big deal.
39:41It'll save the aerospace industry, you know?
39:45It puts the Democrats in a hell of a spot.
39:47It's a little bit like the SST.
39:49Well, there you are with this base thing.
39:51I don't think the country really is for it.
39:54You know what I mean?
39:54No.
39:55And I don't think the country is for the SST.
39:57They didn't understand.
39:59But on the other hand, the country isn't going to vote against a candidate for being for him, and yet individual areas damn well will.
40:05That's right.
40:07According to one TV report last night, Muskie Mays,
40:11blown his chances in Florida completely because, of course, that's a very... You take that whole Orlando complex and then Cape Kennedy.
40:22And that was really a very dumb thing because I think he could have ducked that one.
40:27He didn't have to walk into it.
40:29I noticed that McGovern is... Who is it?
40:34Mondale is going to have hearings.
40:36As a matter of fact, we may not get it, you know, which, of course, is...
40:39It's just one of those things that there's not too much spending this year anyway, but the point is that we've made our effort on it, and that's it.
40:45Well, it's symbolic, and I'm delighted he did it because it is a hell of a big thing in California.
40:52It's a damn big thing in New York.
40:54Connecticut.
40:55Connecticut, that's right.
40:56A number of key states.
40:57Yeah, yeah, yeah.
47:40You know, one thing I was thinking about the, you know, the card business.
47:46I'm wondering if that's totally secure.
47:51It can be done in such a way that it is.
47:53From whom?
47:53Who would be doing it?
47:55The Humphrey people?
47:58No, I would think their own friends of Kennedy.
48:01But on the other hand, I would assume, though, that then he would immediately repudiate it, wouldn't he?
48:05Yep.
48:06But at that point, the damage is... Would have to be done awfully late, I would think.
48:12I would think probably about, let's see if the balloting is on the 7th, I would like to see them arrive up there on the 5th.
48:20Well, these people that are interested in it, of course, we have nothing to do with it.
48:26We couldn't stop it if we wanted to, but I just think those things sometimes... Our Democratic friends really play their games rough, don't they?
48:36They sure do.
48:37They sure do, Mr. President.
56:41Well, I'll tell you one thing.
56:42It was quite a battle, but it's really worth getting rid of that tax credit, isn't it?
56:49The check off?
56:51Oh, my God.
56:52You know, when you stop to think what that would have done for these clowns.
56:55That's right.
56:58Just build them out completely.
56:59You know, that kind of money after the primaries, what is it?
57:05would have solidified the party.
57:07One of the reasons that they're going to have the same kind of problems they had in 1968 is that whoever gets the nomination likely is going to have to start from zero on money.
57:17And he's got a big job to come out of Miami and raise the bill needed.
57:22But that would have just handed it to him right on a silver platter.
57:26And it's amazing how well we came out of that one, Mr. President.
57:30Everybody gave us a great victory on it.
57:34I was amazed that we didn't get more of the kind of snide carping from the liberals, keeping the poor old deprived Democrats from getting their funds.
57:46We came out of it, I think, damned well, extremely well.
57:49Pastore is trying now to bring up a new legislation to repeal Section 315, and of course that's worth several million bucks to them.
58:01He failed as part of the campaign reform bill to get it.
58:05And we're going to have another tussle in the Congress next year on the question of whether they repeal it or suspend it.
58:14And if they do, even, of course, obviously you wouldn't debate, but what they would do is make free television time available to the candidates.
58:22If they repeal it, yeah.
58:24If they repeal it.
58:26Which would be for us and for them, but it would help them a lot more.
58:29A hell of a lot more.
58:32We'll just have to keep trying to help maneuver that story, which will be harder this year with increased partisan pressures.
58:44But that's one I want to make a real effort on because that's dumping about $5 million into the kitty.
58:51Sure.
58:52At least.
58:54Well, okay.
58:55We'll see you then.
58:56Well, I hope you have a good birthday today, Mr. President.
58:58I sure will.
58:59Thank you, sir.
59:00Thank you.
59:09Would you get me Miss Woods, please?
59:10Thank you, sir.
59:14Hello.
59:15Miss Woods.
59:16Hi, Rose.
59:17Hi.
59:18How are you today?
59:18Fine.
59:19I just had an idea that I think would be better than the letter to that general's mother.
59:24Do you have his name?
59:27Yes, I have.
59:28Would you just call the White House operator and ask her to get her on the phone for me?
59:33All right.
59:34She probably can call the general.
59:37there for her birthday or something.
59:39Probably, although the address they gave me for her was in Los Angeles.
59:43Oh, rather than Redlands, I see.
59:45Okay.
59:46Well, I think, well, the White House operators, they'll know how to get her, you know, get a hold of the general and say the president wants to talk to his mother on the phone and then tell her to put it through.
59:56I'm in the EOB office.
59:57EOB office.
59:58Uh-huh.
1:01:25hello mr president on your call to mrs nora moore she's going to be at major general brown's residence in about one hour and i have left word for her to return the call thank you you're welcome sir hello mr president mrs nora e moore now yes thank you more the president is on the line hello hello i just called to wish you a happy birthday
1:01:50Your son told me, the general told me that you had the same birthday as mine, so I wanted to wish you the very best.
1:01:56Thank you, and may I say I'm about to faint, and that this is the thrill of my life.
1:02:01Well, anyway, you can be very proud of him.
1:02:03He has a great record as a Marine, and we just want you to have many happy returns.
1:02:10Well, thank you, and the same to you.
1:02:11You, because it's your birthday.
1:02:13That's right.
1:02:14May I just add that I was to quite an affair for our town last night, and you had many supporters there.
1:02:22Good.
1:02:22You're going to get a lot of votes from our little town of Yucaipa.
1:02:26Yucaipa.
1:02:27Oh, that's a great place.
1:02:28I've been there.
1:02:28Yes, it is.
1:02:29Thank you so much.
1:02:31Still unspoiled and nice.
1:02:33Right.
1:02:34Thank you.
1:02:34Yucaipa.
1:02:36Okay.
1:02:36Thank you very much.
1:02:37Bye.
1:02:38Bye-bye.
1:02:43Mr. President?
1:02:43Yeah.
1:02:44Julie's calling, sir.
1:02:45Okay.
1:02:46Yep.
1:02:48Ready.
1:03:21Could you get me Mr. Rebozo, please?
1:03:25Yes, Mr. President.
1:03:26Just beautiful.
1:03:28Yeah.
1:03:28Mr. Rebozo.
1:04:22Mrs. Connolly, please.
1:04:26Thank you, Mr. President.
1:04:29Hello.
1:04:30Mrs. Connolly, Mr. President.
1:04:31Hello.
1:04:32Mr. President?
1:04:32Hi, how are you?
1:04:33Well, I'm fine.
1:04:34I thought you should know that you must have a sixth sense, because when I opened your birthday present, Rose had given me a photograph, a colored photograph of San Clemente that had been taken by a friend of hers who had been down there, and it was framed, and it fitted perfectly in the stand.
1:04:52Oh, how wonderful.
1:04:52So I...
1:04:54So we put it in our room, and we're all set.
1:04:56I want to tell you that we enjoyed our day with you so very much.
1:05:00Wait a minute.
1:05:01While I have you, I want to tell you, too, that the sweetest letter I believe I ever had was the one you sent down with John on our anniversary.
1:05:08Well, I knew what a hard time you've been having, and I figured maybe give you a little lift.
1:05:14Well, you're a very thoughtful man, and you're also fun, and I appreciate it.
1:05:18Well, anyway, we're going to look forward to that party in the spring.
1:05:20All right.
1:05:21And tell Ms. Nixon we're happy she's back.
1:05:23She looked beautiful on television last night.
1:05:25Okay.
1:05:25Thank you.
1:05:26Thank you.
1:05:29Bye.
1:05:30What is your schedule this afternoon?
1:05:31Yes, please.
1:05:32Could you get me Flanagan, please?
1:05:34Yes, sir.
1:05:37Mr. President?
1:05:38Yeah.
1:05:38Mr. Flanagan for you.
1:05:39Yeah.
1:05:39There you are.
1:05:40Yes, sir.
1:05:42I'm just finishing my talk with Ken Rush, and he's here.
1:05:46And I've asked him to sit with you and discuss his successor thing.
1:05:53He's going over to have a talk with Laird tomorrow.
1:05:58So we're going to rule that along.
1:06:00We've got to get the successor thing on the track, however, before an indication that he would be leaving, see?
1:06:06Yes, sir.
1:06:07So if you would talk with him about the candidates we have,
1:06:12assuming we have some, or people that we're considering, and then we get a recommendation on the thing.
1:06:21Yes, sir, I will.
1:06:22How does it stand at the present time?
1:06:24We're considering Clements, among others, I guess.
1:06:26Bill, Clements is our first consideration.
1:06:29Ingersoll has shown very real interest in Japan.
1:06:32We got down on Wednesday to talk to Bill Rogers about that.
1:06:35Right.
1:06:35But other than Clements, we don't have anyone other than the list I showed you before.
1:06:39Galvin has turned us down.
1:06:40Yeah.
1:06:41So, well, maybe you ought to talk to him about that and see what can...
1:06:51I would like to have it handled if possible.
1:06:53Clements is fine with me, but I'd like to have it handled without my having to look into it anymore now.
1:06:59Yes, sir.
1:07:00The next thing we'll do is put out a recommendation.
1:07:02And then get, well, if it's Clements, it's okay.
1:07:06But I would...
1:07:09You talk to him about it and see how they, what he feels about it, okay?
1:07:12Yes, sir, I will.
1:07:13Thank you.
1:07:14Nobody has talked to Clemens yet.
1:07:16Nobody has talked to Clemens yet.
1:07:17So we don't know.
1:07:18Right.
1:07:19Thank you.
1:07:22Yes, please.
1:07:22Could you get me Dr. Billy Graham, please?
1:07:25I think he's in Puerto Rico.
1:07:28Yes, Mr. President.
1:07:28Thank you.
1:07:29Sure thing.
1:07:32Yes, please.
1:07:34Operator, on that call to Dr. Graham, I just placed...
1:07:37Yes, Mr. President.
1:07:38He's not available now.
1:07:40They're saying he checked out.
1:07:41I'm double-checking, Mr. President.
1:07:42Oh, I see.
1:07:42He did call you up there yesterday morning, didn't he?
1:07:44Yeah, that's right.
1:07:44I was returning it.
1:07:45It may be that he's checked out.
1:07:47But if you...
1:07:48I will be out for a while.
1:07:50All right, sir.
1:07:51And if you get him around free, I could take it.
1:07:53All right, I'll get the information, Mr. President, and I'll wait till I hear from you.
1:07:56Anytime from... Well, you can call me anytime from 3 to 5 o'clock.
1:07:59From 3 to 5.
1:08:00Bye, Mr. President.
1:08:04Could you ring Julie, please?
1:08:06Yes, Mr. President.
1:08:10Hello?
1:08:11I have Julie on the line, sir.
1:08:29The news coverage this morning I thought was excellent.
1:08:33Oh, I thought so too.
1:08:34And I thought the whole thing, though, the trip was very, very good.
1:08:37And like this one NBC news was saying that she came back with new respect.
1:08:45There was new respect for the First Lady after this trip.
1:08:48and won friends, and gee, it was just great.
1:08:50That's great.
1:08:51What I was going to tell you is that I was just checking this morning on the news of last week, and your tour of the Cypress thing got a very good play.
1:09:00It was very helpful, everybody thought, on that environment thing.
1:09:03And I was thinking, I was talking this morning to Holloman,
1:09:07that if you could do some more of that sort of thing and maybe you could get into it and maybe mommy ought to do something from time to time because that's the one way we can show great interest in the environment i'd really love to and daddy i want to tell you something if now that you have just a minute sure i got plenty of time my analysis of the situation is that dave parker needs more help because like we have more time but he doesn't seem he doesn't have enough
1:09:34I mean, he can't, he's having a very hard time finding events, and maybe this is just because there aren't, we have to be awful careful getting events, I agree.
1:09:42I agree.
1:09:43But maybe he needs more help, because like, Tricia wants to do things too, and I think he's getting too many.
1:09:52All right.
1:09:53I'll see that that's done.
1:09:54You might look into it, or it might be just that there aren't that many events and they're trying to pick them carefully, which is hard.
1:10:00Well, we'll see, but we'll get some good ones.
1:10:02But I thought I would mention it.
1:10:04I'm glad you did, and I'll talk to them about it.
1:10:06Because we like to do those trips.
1:10:08And, you know, I wanted to tell you, too, as long as you're on the line, I thought Morton was terrific.
1:10:13I'm glad to hear that.
1:10:15And he really handled the press well, and he spoke well and intelligently.
1:10:20and yet friendly so that they kind of liked him and he was casual and, you know.
1:10:26Nat Reid also.
1:10:28Who?
1:10:28Nat Reid.
1:10:29I don't know him, but he's in the department, too, and he's very good.
1:10:34Well, that's good.
1:10:35So I enjoyed the trip.
1:10:38It was really interesting.
1:10:40Good.
1:10:41Well, that's great, and we do appreciate what you do.
1:10:55Please.
1:10:56Secretary Connolly, please.
1:10:57Thank you.
1:11:00Hello.
1:11:01Secretary Connolly, sir.
1:11:02Mr. President.
1:11:02Hi, John.
1:11:03How are you, sir?
1:11:03How are you?
1:11:04I hope I'm not interrupting you.
1:11:05No, sir.
1:11:06I'm just meeting with my staff.
1:11:07I just stepped out.
1:11:08We're just talking about how we...
1:11:10how we reconstitute ourselves, what ideas we can give you to solve some of the problems this country faces.
1:11:17I don't know that we're going to come up with anything.
1:11:19You've been doing pretty good so far.
1:11:22I hope you will ask Ms. Nixon to forgive us for not being out there last night.
1:11:26Oh, goodness, you shouldn't have.
1:11:29Well, they did not stop us all day, and then we were coming, and it was such bad weather, it fell down in my back, and I just thought we wouldn't do it, and I didn't realize it was going to be... Not on your life.
1:11:38Will you please ask her to forgive us?
1:11:39No, no, no.
1:11:40We didn't expect people to come, John.
1:11:44Well, we felt real bad when we... You know what I mean?
1:11:47Just a few were able to come anyway, but it was just great.
1:11:52Let me ask you one question, and I won't bother you long.
1:11:58I'm working in the State of the Union this week, you know, and I just talked to John Ehrlichman before noon.
1:12:03He said that he'd talk to you briefly about his plan on value-added and so forth, and that he felt that you felt that it was all right to handle it on this basis of sort of trial ballooning.
1:12:17In other words, that what we would do in order to preempt the issue, as I understand it, that I would try to meet
1:12:25this week with McElroy, you and I and Richardson would meet with McElroy, that we would have the Intergovernmental Committee chaired by the Vice President, I think, that he'd get them together.
1:12:44first of next week and so forth before the State of the Union, and you'd be present in Richardson again and vote the idea there with them and ask them to think about it.
1:12:52Right.
1:12:52In the State of the Union, I would just refer to the idea and say that this is a problem of grave concern and that I've taken these steps and consultations and have directed the Secretary of the Treasury
1:13:03give me a recommendation, so forth and so on.
1:13:05Now, that would leave us, as I understand it, in a position to either go or stop three or four months from now.
1:13:13Does that sound all right to you?
1:13:15I think it sounds like a very plausible and intelligent way to handle it.
1:13:20Because I just don't think, Mr. President, you want to go up with any kind of legislation right now that ties you down without any accruing benefits.
1:13:28I think it's an issue.
1:13:29You can capture the issue.
1:13:31You can talk about it in general terms and get all of the value and none of the disadvantages because you don't tie yourself down to specifics.
1:13:39And I would sure let them float it.
1:13:40I think the Vice President's idea of doing it through that advisory council and their government relations is a damn good one.
1:13:46now we will uh we will use your name in it but uh but then you at some time will just say well yes i'm studying it and my people are studying it and it's a very something has to be done but we don't want to we another thing argument i think john you should make everybody
1:14:03is to say, look, we have a very practical thing, and that you and the president talk about this, and that we don't want to send down to that committee with all it has on its plate a piece of legislation that is for pure political reasons.
1:14:16We know they're not ready for it yet, and we want to think about it more, and they get a chance to think about it and then send it down.
1:14:20Doesn't that make sense to you?
1:14:22Yes, sir.
1:14:22Because Wilbur is going to have his own revenue sharing.
1:14:26He's got to have health.
1:14:27He's got to have the gold bill.
1:14:29you've got all these things that and I think that's a good reason for so now in terms of the State of the Union itself then that really doesn't isn't going to leave us too much in the way of something really quite new
1:14:46Now, I wonder what you feel, whether that probably isn't all right, in a sense.
1:14:50Yes.
1:14:52Or tell me what you think.
1:14:53I've been having them try to scrub up something, but I haven't seen anything that's worth a damn.
1:14:57I don't think, if you can't have something with real substance and real meat in it, I wouldn't try to.
1:15:02I would just, in general terms, I hadn't thought in terms of language, but talk about this as a period of...
1:15:09of consolidation.
1:15:11We've undertaken great changes in the domestic economic front, the international economic front, the international diplomatic front, and frankly, this is going to be a year of expansion and consolidation.
1:15:22And we can ask the Congress now to act on those things that we already presented before.
1:15:26Reorganization of health and welfare.
1:15:29In a sense, with welfare reform, health, government reorganization, revenue sharing,
1:15:38we have everything there already that is needed, you see.
1:15:43Not to mention, of course, the cleaning up of the international monetary thing.
1:15:48So I really think that we say now, here it is, Congress, and there really isn't... Also, another thing that concerns me is that
1:15:56We mustn't create the impression that there's a bold new scheme to solve every problem.
1:16:00There really isn't, is there?
1:16:01No, there isn't.
1:16:03No, and I think you've taken it.
1:16:04I think you have to lend credence to what you've been saying, that you've taken bold steps in the international field, winding down the war, the trip to Moscow, China, the International Monetary Front, the international economic...
1:16:17as well as the domestic economic front, you have to take the position that you've taken these steps.
1:16:22But now it's a question of cleaning up your plate, in effect, before in the Congress and of stabilizing and making the initiatives function that you've already announced.
1:16:35And that this is a period of expansion and consolidation and whatever other words we can come up with.
1:16:41Well, as soon as I...
1:16:43I'll get something by Thursday or Friday.
1:16:45I'd like to have you take a look.
1:16:48The language is as important as anything else.
1:16:52Is what you have in your back a muscle spasm?
1:16:54Yes, sir.
1:16:55It's just...
1:16:55Ever had it before?
1:16:56Not particularly, no.
1:16:59I used to.
1:16:59I always have.
1:17:00You wouldn't, when Ryland comes down on Wednesday, you wouldn't like for him to take a little...
1:17:05He's this great osteopath.
1:17:07You know, I use him every week.
1:17:08Want to take a crack at it?
1:17:09Well, I sure do if I've still got it.
1:17:12Well, no, no, no.
1:17:13The point is, do it if you don't have it even, because what it is, is this is the best Rockefeller user that my user, Mitchell, does, and he is the great one in the country.
1:17:23He's an MD, too.
1:17:24All right.
1:17:26You bet.
1:17:27And so is the Chief Justice.
1:17:29Well, that's great.
1:17:29I'll be in good company anyway.
1:17:31That's right.
1:17:31Okay.
1:17:32I'll have him call you and make an appointment.
1:17:33That would be wonderful.
1:17:34Thank you.
1:17:37Yes, please.
1:17:38The Vice President, please.
1:17:39Yes, sir.
1:17:42Hello?
1:17:43Mr. President, the Vice President's en route to New York.
1:17:46Could I have him call you when he arrives?
1:17:47Sure, sure, no hurry.
1:17:49All right.
1:17:49Just when it's convenient.
1:17:50Yes, thank you.
1:17:56Secretary Morton, please.
1:17:58Thank you.
1:18:00Hello?
1:18:02Hello, Mr. President.
1:18:03I thought you should know that my daughter Julie was talking to me on the phone today, and she said, you know, I want you to tell Secretary Martin how impressed I was by him.
1:18:12He said he's articulate, he's friendly, he's very good with the press, and people like him.
1:18:17Well, didn't she not?
1:18:19Took her on a terrible trip, Mr. President.
1:18:21Waded her right into the swamp.
1:18:23She thought it was great, and I think it's a very good way for her to show the interest in that.
1:18:28And then at a later point, of course, after I get through with my China trip, I've got to do something in this field.
1:18:38That's right.
1:18:39I told Ehrlichman and Holloman to get busy today that I was thinking maybe I'd take a two-day trip of some sort where we do not just like maybe not only a park like Yellowstone, but something in the way of the other environmental stuff.
1:18:52Oh, yeah, I think we ought to do something other than parks.
1:18:55Well, I've got a Yellowstone, I suppose, for Hunter's anniversary, but I've done parks.
1:19:00But I think if you get maybe you and Russ Train, and if you might, you, Russ Train, and...
1:19:08and his group.
1:19:10Maybe you just sort of follow up on this, will you, with Russ and Jean and the rest and all get together.
1:19:17I can't do anything, Raj, now between on the time you came to China, because I'm now writing State of the Union, and then I've got to get budget and all that crap out.
1:19:26But then in April and May, it'll be a nice time, Sue.
1:19:29We want to rile it in with good, active stuff.
1:19:32Oh, yeah.
1:19:32We can do that for you and make it even.
1:19:34Mr. President, the Roosevelt family called me, Theodore Roosevelt III, and they sent, I've sent it over to Rosemary, and you might want to take a look.
1:19:41It's an original letter from the Empress of China to President Roosevelt expressing her great feeling about the relationship between the people of China and the people of the United States.
1:19:52And the family told me, they called me and said they would like to make it available to you and give it to you if you wanted to give it, take it with you and give it to them.
1:19:59Well, that's really something.
1:20:00Probably worth about $50,000, I guess.
1:20:02Give it to them.
1:20:04Maybe we should put it in the presidential library.
1:20:07Yeah, I think so.
1:20:08Well, it's part of their library.
1:20:12It's part of their library.
1:20:13Maybe it would be a good idea.
1:20:14That's a very good idea.
1:20:15Rosemary has the dope on it, so if you want me to follow through, I'll get it all arranged.
1:20:20Good deal.
1:20:21Fine, fine.
1:20:22Right on.
1:20:22Okay, you're doing all right otherwise.
1:20:24Yes, sir.
1:20:24It was great.
1:20:25You're behaving.
1:20:25I had no choice.
1:20:26Okay, no choice.
1:20:28Yes, sir.
1:20:35I'll talk to Dr. Graham.
1:20:36Oh, thank you, Mr. President.
1:20:41Hello.
1:20:41I have Dr. Graham now, sir.
1:20:43Hello.
1:20:44Hello.
1:20:44Hello, Billy, you still in Puerto Rico?
1:20:47No, sir, I'm at Caneo Bay now in the Virgin Islands.
1:20:50Oh, say, my golly, you are a hard fellow to keep up with.
1:20:52How are you?
1:20:53I'm just fine, and I got your message from yesterday, and Pat got back, and she looked great after her long journey, and I...
1:21:05Hello.
1:21:06Hello.
1:21:06And I passed on your message to her when she was most gratified.
1:21:10Well, she was really great over there.
1:21:12She was just wonderful.
1:21:14Well, it was a... She's a...
1:21:16I think trips like that are a great deal of... Hello.
1:21:20Go ahead.
1:21:21Yes, sir.
1:21:21Yeah.
1:21:23Hello.
1:21:23Hello.
1:21:25Hello?
1:21:26Go ahead now.
1:21:27Yeah, I can hear.
1:21:28I hope you had a nice birthday.
1:21:30I don't like to think about it, but I did all right.
1:21:32Yeah, they had a nice party out at the airport and everything.
1:21:36I just got the New York Times, and I was just reading about it.
1:21:39Yeah, and we had a very, very good... Actually, you know, she got a great reception in Liberia and the other places, too, I understand.
1:21:49The show has worked out fine.
1:21:51Well, it was really wonderful, and I deeply appreciate you letting me go.
1:21:57Well, I would just think it's a little hard on you, but we appreciate it.
1:22:00It was great.
1:22:01I had a great time with her and with her staff.
1:22:04I'm going to.
1:22:05We're checking out to see whether Talbert is coming to the prayer breakfast or wants to, and if he does, I'll give a dinner for him while he's here.
1:22:12So that would be a way to return it, you see.
1:22:14Well, I think so.
1:22:17He's very interested in that, as I understand.
1:22:19He talked to her about coming to the prayer breakfast on February the 1st.
1:22:24Well, I think... Hello?
1:22:30Hello?
1:22:32It's Keneal Bay, and it's off, I think.
1:22:37Somebody checks in and out.
1:22:49Operator, I got cut off from Mr. Graham.
1:22:51It's a and I guess it's a bad connection.
1:22:52Would you try him again, please?
1:22:53Yes, I certainly will, Mr. President.
1:22:57Yeah.
1:22:57I have Dr. Graham now, sir.
1:22:58I'm sorry that happened.
1:23:00It's all right.
1:23:01Yeah, that connection with as you know.
1:23:04Telephone people working on this.
1:23:05That's all right.
1:23:06It is always difficult.
1:23:07But all I just wanted to be sure is that you felt a good idea for to come in the event that
1:23:13He comes to prayer breakfast, and I just have a little dinner, have a dinner for him that night, you see.
1:23:17Well, that'll be just fine, but I don't think you have to do that if you don't want to this early, maybe next summer sometime.
1:23:23Well, my point was it might be easier to do it now in that connection and not have it too long a visit, see?
1:23:29Right.
1:23:29Because it's a small country.
1:23:32I don't think you ought to have a state visit for him.
1:23:34No, not at this point, no.
1:23:35No, we can't have any this year because of our other heavy commitments.
1:23:39But all right, I've got your message.
1:23:42I don't think you need to worry about that at all.
1:23:44Right, right.
1:23:46And anything I can do for you, have somebody call me.
1:23:49I will.
1:23:49Incidentally, there's a very good piece Bob Haldeman brought over in time this week on the trip.
1:23:54You'll want to pick it up.
1:23:55Oh, good.
1:23:56Yeah.
1:23:57Okay.
1:23:58Now you enjoy that wonderful place, will you?
1:24:00Thank you, sir.
1:24:00And thank you for calling.
1:24:01Give my best to Ruth.
1:24:02All right.
1:24:03Bye.
1:24:07Peace.
1:24:08Price, please.
1:24:08Thank you, Mr. President.
1:24:13Hello.
1:24:15Hi, Ray.
1:24:16Hope you caught up in your sleep.
1:24:19I did think you've done a lot of fine work here.
1:24:22But I thought I'd just let you have your head for a while and then we'll come back.
1:24:28How's it stand now?
1:24:29Well, I'm still working on it.
1:24:30I'm still having trouble with it.
1:24:31I didn't quite get
1:24:32Couldn't quite get back in gear yesterday, except for some headway.
1:24:37And I still like that basic theme that I was developing there.
1:24:40Yeah, that theme, I think, is a good one.
1:24:43I think I read the first draft, of course.
1:24:45I'd read it before, and I think it's a lot of things.
1:24:48I think we're going to have our usual problem on length, and it may be that we can make considerable cuts by referring to the opus, and that we...
1:25:00almost sentence by sentence we need a program for guard agriculture and i have set it forth we need a program with regard to the elderly and i set it forth we need a program with regard to you know what i mean i mean it's laundry list but uh maybe that's about the way to do it but uh the theme it seems that my recollection is that on such things if you get one one theme that
1:25:24that is caught, you know, that catches on, and that maybe that's as much as it can come out of such a speech at this point.
1:25:32Isn't that what you feel, is that you're trying to get a sort of a central theme that will last?
1:25:37One that will last and that will, I think, be... A basis for our... A tune to the mood and that...
1:25:44and that plays into the campaign.
1:25:47Yes, yes.
1:25:48And so we're running against the 60s, and yet at the same time reaching back to the old principles, which are very important to the conservatives.
1:25:59I'm not sure that the...
1:26:01It may be that the theme...
1:26:04It's hard to know quite how to put it, whether it should be, I mean, you could do it one of two ways.
1:26:12You could state it at the beginning and then try to put everything, put the laundry list and all in relation to the theme.
1:26:21Or you could go through the, you know, what is left.
1:26:26It seems to me that I was talking to Connolly a few minutes ago and we are, you know, we're going to, we're not going to advance the,
1:26:34value added as a finished program we're going to say we're looking into it and you know and the the committee on uh government or government intergovernmental relations and the uh the school committee and the rest and so forth and so on and we asked the cooperation of the congress in this historic venture so i said to john i said you realize john we're not really going to have anything strikingly new and i said
1:26:58What do you think of that?
1:26:58He said, well, he said, that's probably all right.
1:27:01He said, we've got to remember that we have an awful lot on the plate.
1:27:04We have a lot to digest and that we should say this is a time for consolidation, for moving forward and not to come in with some new shocker.
1:27:14Also, there's the realistic point that in terms of the Congress, the Congress simply doesn't have any room to do anything more at this point.
1:27:23And it's an empty gesture and totally political to throw it up and say, I asked the Congress this year to enact, to have tax reform.
1:27:32Well, I'm just using that as an example.
1:27:34When the Congress has government reorganization, it has revenue sharing, it has welfare reform, it has programs for the environment agent, and it has whatever else we've got there.
1:27:46Now that...
1:27:50I don't know.
1:27:51I don't know.
1:27:54That's at least his feeling, and it was mine, too.
1:27:57I may have led him into it, but he has put a very good political judgment, and he did not feel, in other words, that it was fatal to the speech not to have a new striking initiative, you see.
1:28:11So...
1:28:13There's where we are.
1:28:14I think we have a strong case, and now is the time to act on all the proposals that are before them.
1:28:19Yes, we have proposed that 1971 and 72 were years of, 70 and 71 were years of proposal.
1:28:29This is the year for acting on those proposals.
1:28:35and that I and say it with very good grace not in anger or bully wagging the congress but that I realize the congress has great responsibilities I realize it's an election year I realize it's difficult but let us in those areas where we can put partisanship aside and the best politics is do what is best for the country and what is best for the country is
1:28:59The best politics is always to do what is best for the country.
1:29:02And there's, if we fail to act, that we will be held responsible.
1:29:08And that if we do act, there will be credit enough for everybody.
1:29:12And that this is, we cannot get this through without the cooperation of Democrats as well as Republicans.
1:29:18And these are areas which I think are above politics that require, in which we can act together.
1:29:27just as the Congress acted with high statesmanship on our economic program and on the international program, our international monetary is going to act, we trust.
1:29:40So we'll act on this one.
1:29:46But coming back to it, let me say I'm working on a lot of doodads anyway.
1:29:54Do you want to just take another, what would you like to do, take another day?
1:30:00I'd like to if I could.
1:30:01All right, fine.
1:30:02What I'd like to do, I'd like to perhaps go to Camp David tomorrow after I finish my main round, say 3 o'clock or so, and then spend the night and the day there sort of getting stuff done.
1:30:15How does that sound to you?
1:30:16Does that give you a time to get something pulled together?
1:30:22Or before you leave for Camp David?
1:30:28Yeah, I meant tomorrow, say, around, say, around, I was thinking around, oh, say, 3 o'clock.
1:30:41That's when I'd have to leave.
1:30:42I mean, I would plan to leave so that I could get in a full evening's work.
1:30:47And does that sound like a reasonable...
1:30:51Yes, it does.
1:30:53And then pull together what you think you can and...
1:31:00And we're trying to get down to the hard stuff.
1:31:03Good.
1:31:05All right.
1:31:06I think this two-track thing can work very well, too.
1:31:10Having a long written message, which you can put a lot of things in that you wouldn't get into a state of the engine.
1:31:14That's right.
1:31:15And it leaves a lot of freedom here to make this a short speed.
1:31:18We can talk about that.
1:31:21We might even have one long paragraph.
1:31:23I have covered the problem of Indian affairs, the relations of our Indians with the environment, you know what I mean, all of them being important.
1:31:32I know the reason you have to put, I saw that you had a fairly long section on agriculture and a long section on the aging.
1:31:38Which would have to be shortened.
1:31:40I understand that, but I think that we could shorten them both and still make them powerful and say that the...
1:31:51But the two-track thing at least is new, and it's a way states of the Union should be done in the future.
1:32:01It seems to me.
1:32:06All right, shall we, why don't you try, we'll say 3 o'clock tomorrow.
1:32:09All right, sure.
1:32:10Fine.
1:32:14Yeah.
1:32:14The Vice President is present.
1:32:16Yeah.
1:32:17Hello.
1:32:18Hello, Mr. President.
1:32:19I just wanted to call you to tell you that I opened the present, and I'm delighted to have that razor, and I will now not blame the TV when I have the 5 o'clock shadow.
1:32:26Well, it's a razor that I was just astounded with.
1:32:31I received it as a Christmas present.
1:32:33I never use an electric razor except...
1:32:35I don't either.
1:32:35I only use it to sort of shape up.
1:32:37But I'll tell you honestly, Mr. President, this thing shaves as well as any blade razor I've ever seen.
1:32:43Does it really?
1:32:43Try.
1:32:44I think you'll find it's outstanding.
1:32:46I really...
1:32:47At least for a touch-up.
1:32:49It's fine, and it's about like we thought you'd just handle that very, very gracefully last night, and I'm very grateful.
1:32:55I was glad to have a chance to welcome Mrs. Nixon.
1:32:59That's right.
1:32:59What I called you about, sir, before was, you remember my talking to you about my concern about the whole problem of secret documents.
1:33:07Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:33:08I'd like very much to, if I could have a few minutes with you, maybe...
1:33:15Friday or Thursday or Friday or sometime to go over a couple of ideas I have with you on that.
1:33:22Yeah, okay.
1:33:24By that time we'll have a chance to sort of see it in perspective too, perhaps.
1:33:29This is not specifically about the one incident.
1:33:33This is an idea I have about
1:33:35a potential way of correcting this whole problem of recurrences in this area it basically goes to the uh the situation that the courts have said that they are not
1:33:51qualified themselves to judge what may be harmful to the national security.
1:33:57Yeah.
1:33:57And I'm thinking specifically about a tactic involving some possible bipartisan legislation that might close this off in the future, and I'd just like to talk to you briefly about that.
1:34:08Fine.
1:34:09Fine.
1:34:09Okay.
1:34:10If you'd let me know of any time.
1:34:13It'll only take about 15 minutes.
1:34:14Fine.
1:34:15I think Thursday would be fine.
1:34:16I have to be writing on the State of the Union on Friday, so I'll have them get in touch with your office and work it out.
1:34:26Fair enough?
1:34:26Very much.
1:34:26Fine.
1:34:31Yes, please.
1:34:32Laird, please.
1:34:32Yes, Mr. President.
1:34:37Hello.
1:34:37Secretary Laird, sir.
1:34:38Hello.
1:34:39Yes, Mr. President.
1:34:40Hi, Mel.
1:34:40How are you?
1:34:41Fine.
1:34:41Fine, fine.
1:34:45I had a good talk with Rush, and he said
1:34:51And I think you will find that in terms of our immediate problems and so forth, if he can work out the conflict of interest thing, that he would work very well.
1:35:06Well, he'll be excellent.
1:35:07Here's the point.
1:35:08There are two or three things that I don't want to talk about in any large forum that I particularly was in.
1:35:14First of all,
1:35:16He knows MBFR, which of course is an area where you've got to fight like hell, you know, to drag your feet.
1:35:23He knows SALT due to where he's been.
1:35:26where he also will represent a very strong point of view.
1:35:30And third, he is a man who knows the government.
1:35:38In other words, he knows how to operate.
1:35:40He's a man, having worked with you in Europe on two or three things,
1:35:48great great respect for you and he says he just wants to be a team player and he has no ambition to do anything more which is another good thing and I I really feel that I want you to have a very good talk with him and and if we feel that he could do it and if you can work up the I think Mitchell of course is the expert in conflict of interest he thinks he can he and Mitchell have been
1:36:14friends in New York for years.
1:36:16As you know, or as probably you maybe don't know, he has the business background because he was the Chief Executive Officer of Union Carbide, so he knows the business types extremely well.
1:36:28What he does not know, of course,
1:36:30is the intricacies of procurement and all that sort of thing, but there you'd have to rely on Mood and your service secretaries, in other words, the team you've already gotten, which actually is what anybody else would have to do.
1:36:41Well, we've got a good man in Mood, and he'll be very helpful, too.
1:36:44Right.
1:36:45I really am very delighted.
1:36:47You know, I talked earlier with your people over there in the White House about either Porter or Rush Beck seven or eight months ago.
1:36:55Yeah.
1:36:56And I kind of got shot down on it.
1:36:58Well, I think the reason that they shot down Rush was that then we had the German thing.
1:37:03I'm sure they couldn't spare him.
1:37:05But now, the German thing, he's done everything he can in Germany.
1:37:08We've got to find a good man.
1:37:09And he's been a terrific combatant.
1:37:11Well, hasn't he been?
1:37:13But he told me, I said, because I don't want to.
1:37:17I don't want to have any situation where in a position that important working with you, you've got some guy you think is not compatible.
1:37:25He said that, and correct me when he said that he had a totally good relationship with you.
1:37:33And that's what he said.
1:37:34So if you feel the same way, then I think we can go on it.
1:37:41But you have a good talk with him tomorrow.
1:37:43I will.
1:37:44And I thought it would be all right with you, Mr. President, I'd have him talk.
1:37:48I asked Dave to stay over and spend a little time with him tomorrow, too.
1:37:51I thought it would be well for him to talk to Dave.
1:37:53Oh, of course, of course, to the extent that Dave would be willing.
1:37:57And so he knows what to do and so forth and so on.
1:38:03But I think you'll find him totally smart, too, you know.
1:38:08Well, I like him very much.
1:38:09I like his wife.
1:38:11Barbara and I have gotten to know both of them, and we like them very much.
1:38:15I've only met his wife once, but she seemed to be very nice.
1:38:18Yes, she's a very good gal.
1:38:19And when Mitchell checked it out with him, he just asked whether he would be available
1:38:26Well, Rush says, well, to be perfectly frank with you, he says, I'd a hell of a lot rather stay in Bonn than to be in Washington.
1:38:32But he says, I will also have to say that my wife would much rather be in Washington than be in Bonn.
1:38:38So that would be a... Well, that's a fine solution, Mr. President.
1:38:41I was only trying to get somebody.
1:38:43I'll tell you, you really need the help over here.
1:38:47I know, I know.
1:38:47And another thing, too, he told me that you had mentioned to him that you wanted to take somebody there so you wouldn't have to
1:38:55keep their nose to the grindstone and I'm all for that too because you've been you haven't gotten away and with him you're you have a man who's totally trustworthy who would not who would not make a mistake you know what I mean he's just too damn smart I mean he's a lawyer of course without and very cautious in that respect and he isn't going to go running off
1:39:13you know, run off the track.
1:39:15So I think you take a look.
1:39:19He's seeing you tomorrow, I understand.
1:39:21Yes, he's coming in here at 4 o'clock.
1:39:23That's what I asked him to do.
1:39:24And so you can talk very frankly with him and straight from the shoulder.
1:39:28He's that kind of a guy.
1:39:29And if you can close the deal, fine.
1:39:34On the conflict of interest thing, you can check with Mitchell to see.
1:39:38Well, you're people to know, too.
1:39:40But I think Rush is willing to sell whatever he has.
1:39:43That's too bad.
1:39:43You know, I wish we could get that capital gains thing fixed so that they wouldn't have to pay capital gains on this for sale.
1:39:49That's the only problem.
1:39:52I don't think, Mel, that Rush, well, maybe this is a bigger problem.
1:39:56He doesn't have a hell of a lot of money.
1:39:59But on the other hand, I suppose it's harder for him to lose it than a fellow like Packard.
1:40:03While a guy like Packard loses more, it hurts him less.
1:40:06But when a guy's got, say, maybe, well, it sounds like a lot to me, but maybe he's only got $2 or $3 million, it hurts him a lot more to lose a quarter of it than when he's got $300 million.
1:40:16You know, I went through his holdings with him when I talked to him back, oh, this was several months ago.
1:40:22I talked to him.
1:40:23He's got 42,000 shares of Union Carbide.
1:40:25I've got the list of his shares.
1:40:27I see.
1:40:29what do you think you think you can work them out yeah if we could get if i can get stennis to agree to give them six months that would help them an awful lot oh i said can you well you might be able to do that i think i could i'm going to try there sure isn't uh does union carbide uh that i wouldn't think that's a big defense contractors with them all of our batteries and all of our tanks we've got all sorts of business with them so that would be uh yeah and um
1:40:57Our contractors are big with them.
1:40:59I see.
1:40:59I see.
1:41:00Well, that's...
1:41:03But we'll work that out, Mr. President.
1:41:05You shouldn't have to worry about that.
1:41:07If we can get them to come aboard.
1:41:09Now, the other thing is this that I wanted to talk to you about.
1:41:11I understand Henry's talked to you, but I wanted to do it directly in terms of the
1:41:17On this withdrawal thing, Mel, I think we've got to go just a little above what we've done previously, and I know it's a tough time, but it seems to me that the 70,000 number and the way I was thinking I wanted to do it was that I would just announce 70,000
1:41:42uh by may 1st and then have you brief on it you see at the view and my tentative thinking was to do it thursday at the white house so that you catch the 11 o'clock my feeling is that 70 000 is about a thousand to fifteen hundred
1:41:58above the other number but then in april then we have to make we have to make the fisher cut date statement depending upon that but uh uh i i didn't talk to henry but i got i understand that you've had some doubts about whether we go that high i i
1:42:14I always wonder whether we can go at high at all, because I know they're mounting, you know, they've got all these new people and everything there.
1:42:21But the way things are now, there isn't a hell of a lot that that many can do anyway.
1:42:26No, we can do it.
1:42:26But can you handle the 70?
1:42:28We can handle it.
1:42:30And also, I think it would put us in a very bad position, because both you and I have indicated that the atomization is working, that we're able to
1:42:39go up a little.
1:42:40What is 70,000?
1:42:41That would be three and a what?
1:42:43That's 20... Well, it's about 20...
1:42:46It's less than 25.
1:42:49It's 23.
1:42:5123.
1:42:51And our number before, it's 23 and a half.
1:42:54So we're up 1,000.
1:42:55About 1,000 a month more or something.
1:42:57And that's a damn good number.
1:42:59That's down to 69.
1:43:00And then April 15th, we will take another look.
1:43:05We're going to have some, I think, in the briefing, when I get in, I think I should...
1:43:13The people know that they're going to, South Vietnamese are going to take a few bumps in the next...
1:43:18Yes.
1:43:18I think you could, when you come over, that we'll talk a little about it, too, and then you can give me an indication.
1:43:26But what I had in mind was that you would indicate that there will be, that present indications are that the North Vietnamese are
1:43:36are, as is the custom at this time of year, building up for their usual Tet Offensive.
1:43:42But this year, the South Vietnamese are going to have to meet the responsibility of meeting that offensive.
1:43:49That is, that they will also launch an offensive in Cambodia, just as they have already launched one in Laos.
1:43:56and that our efforts in this respect will be concentrated by the use of our air, that we will continue to, you know what I mean, but I think you should prepare for that.
1:44:11But on the other hand,
1:44:13I think it's very important to give, as the Congress comes back, and with all the possibility of resolutions and with deadlines and the rest, to give a feeling of confidence.
1:44:23I can do that.
1:44:24Because, goddammit, we've done a hell of a job here, as you well know.
1:44:29And this Vietnamization program, nobody thought we'd be this far along.
1:44:33And if they come back to say, well, why did you have the airstrike?
1:44:38We can certainly see why now, can't we?
1:44:40Yeah.
1:44:42Well, I am confident, and I have no problems at all on that, Mr. President.
1:44:49I'm sure the North Vietnamese will try one or two spectaculars, but that's all.
1:44:53And I think you should say that.
1:44:55We should expect them, and that all battles are not won, but that the South Vietnamese will prevail.
1:45:02They are now strong enough to defend themselves, you should say.
1:45:06On the other hand, as you well know,
1:45:08What happens in Laos and Cambodia is a tough one.
1:45:12Well, it's important and also questionable.
1:45:14But let's just hope to God that I would think, I don't know what you think, that what the South Vietnamese can do in the Cambodian area should be able to keep that from going under.
1:45:27Would you not think so or not?
1:45:28Yes, I do.
1:45:30Laos is another thing.
1:45:31Laos is pretty tough.
1:45:32You know, we put 2,000 tons of B-52s in there in the last two weeks of bombs.
1:45:37And I'm not sure... Did any good?
1:45:39I'm not sure, Mr. President.
1:45:41I hope it did, but, you know, I'm... Where did they land?
1:45:43I don't know.
1:45:44They must have... We're bombing.
1:45:46We can't get the reports from our pilots, and I'm trying to get reports from...
1:45:54But you have to get that up and out.
1:45:56Isn't the reason that we just don't have people around that can see it?
1:45:59Right.
1:46:00And I suppose they've got them well camouflaged, controlled, and so forth.
1:46:05The psychological impact of that must be worth something.
1:46:092,000.
1:46:09Jesus, that's a lot of stuff.
1:46:11Jesus.
1:46:12Those are just P-52s in Alaska.
1:46:14Is that right?
1:46:15Yeah.
1:46:15Mm-hmm.
1:46:17well okay if we'll uh my feeling now my feeling is that we will uh i told warren today to just say we would have another announcement before the end of the month that's why i'm leaving it but for your information that i think if you could come over let's figure it for the 11 o'clock briefing here
1:46:35which mean that you and i should get together say 10 30 all right and we'll have a meeting and then i will walk out with you and make a one sentence statement that we are we are reducing to 69 000 ceiling by may 1st and that the
1:46:52and that the Secretary of Defense will brief you now on the details, and I'll walk out and then let you do the thing.
1:46:58See, the reason I don't want to do it, one reason is that I've got to be in a position to say something on the diplomatic front maybe in the near future, and I don't want to be in, I don't want to talk about the,
1:47:12prisoners for deadline, all that sort of thing, which you can handle.
1:47:15You've been handling it, and I think you can handle it again.
1:47:17Does that sound all right to you as a game plan?
1:47:19Right.
1:47:20Now, we'll do this live.
1:47:23Not live, but we'll do it taped for television.
1:47:25Right.
1:47:26So it'll be a...
1:47:28a way to get our story off on Thursday.
1:47:30All right.
1:47:31Okay.
1:47:32I hope Rush works out.
1:47:33Oh, I'm sure he'll work out.
1:47:35There's one thing that I hope that John Mitchell and I sometime can sit out and visit with you about the political problem that might come up.
1:47:44On this other matter that I've been talking with the Attorney General about, we've got to have a game plan on that, Mr. President.
1:47:50You mean this leak?
1:47:51Yeah.
1:47:51Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:47:53But that's something...
1:47:54I guess the fellow they think did it is gone now, but we don't know how far along.
1:48:00But that just bothers me knowing the kind of things that we're going through.
1:48:04A hell of a thing, yeah.
1:48:04A hell of a thing, yeah.
1:48:06You can imagine sort of the pain it causes us because of me because I, you know, it's really unconscionable.
1:48:12But we can't do anything because you can't blow that, we can't hurt the chiefs.
1:48:20That's the point, you know what I mean?
1:48:21Oh, I understand.
1:48:22It'd be a terrible thing.
1:48:23I mean, what we did, Mel, here, I think is just inherit a situation that
1:48:28that they just continued.
1:48:29They'd been doing it with the previous administration.
1:48:31They just continued with this one.
1:48:32Don't you think that's it?
1:48:33Yeah, well, and they got a little, they carried a little further in the last 10 months today since this Wellander adenal was over there.
1:48:41Wellander?
1:48:42I don't know him.
1:48:43They've gone a little too far.
1:48:45But you and John and I will have a talk about it at some point.
1:48:49In the meantime, if you could prepare your Q&A and discuss it with me at 1030 so that
1:48:56we can say you discussed to him, you know, and all that sort of thing.
1:49:00And then the toughest one is the prisoner for deadline, in one sense, but in another sense not, because the North Vietnamese...
1:49:07have withdrawn.
1:49:09I mean, they have flatly said that they will accept nothing.
1:49:13No, I think that was taken care of last week.
1:49:15But I think you should emphasize that point.
1:49:18Sure.
1:49:18Emphasize the point that not only last week, but back in October, when that screwball McGovern was over there, the next day in their conference, they said, no, you've got to overthrow Q and stop the bombing and stop all aid to South Vietnam.
1:49:32which is an entirely different thing than prisoners for deadline.
1:49:35Well, every time I've gone to NATO, I've met with Porter and before that with the other representatives, and I've followed that closely, and that record is very clear.
1:49:45So I don't think I have to back away from that one bit.
1:49:49All right.
1:49:49Well, we'll see you Thursday at 10.30 then, unless something comes up.
1:49:53All right.
1:49:54Thank you.
1:49:54Thank you.
1:50:00Yes, please.
1:50:01Senator Dole, please.
1:50:03Thank you, sir.
1:50:09Operator?
1:50:10Yeah.
1:50:11Could I get Herb Klein, please?
1:50:13Yes, sir.
1:50:14Thank you.
1:50:14You're welcome.
1:50:17Mr. Klein is on, sir.
1:50:19Hello, Herb.
1:50:19Yes, how are you, sir?
1:50:20I didn't get to see your program, but from the news summary, I thought you did a fine job.
1:50:25Well, thank you very much.
1:50:25They really put you on the spot on that thing, but the only thing we could do is to really basically brazen it through, because it's really a question of pretty much semantics.
1:50:39I mean, whether you're anti-Indian or so forth, it isn't nobody's anti-Indian.
1:50:45The real question is we can disagree with a country's policy without being anti.
1:50:50We were just anti-war.
1:50:51That was really the point, and I think you made that very well.
1:50:54Yeah, and I illustrated it with Japan and Canada.
1:50:57It's two good illustrations where we disagreed on some policies, but we said we were pro-Japan, pro-Canada.
1:51:02We tried, and we're still going to help India, and we're pouring in.
1:51:05God, you know, when you think of the hundreds of millions we give to the damn country, they're anti-American.
1:51:11That's what it really gets down to.
1:51:12But on the end...
1:51:14They have emotions involved in this country over a lot of years.
1:51:18Yeah.
1:51:19With regard to...
1:51:22India, you say?
1:51:23Yes, sir.
1:51:23Yeah, they have, but let me say that there are emotions that run both ways.
1:51:28There are a hell of a lot of people that don't.
1:51:29Yeah, that's true.
1:51:30You don't care that much, you get up in that Senate, you know, and you have to fight for Indian aid every damn year.
1:51:35A lot of them would like to cut it right to the bone, as Everett Jordan indicated yesterday, you know.
1:51:40Yes.
1:51:41And that's not a, I've had, for years when I was vice president, I had to, you know, pull people in line for the damn thing.
1:51:50Because, you know, they'd vote against us in the U.N., they'd do every possible thing, and then we'd have... And they played with Moscow a lot, even those years.
1:51:58Always.
1:51:59Well, they basically played their own non-aligned game and so forth.
1:52:03And then I think the fact that you just used the line that Henry had been libeled was a good idea.
1:52:09I mean, after all, there was no deliberate...
1:52:13I mean, they say that he lied when he said we were anti...
1:52:19that we were not anti-Indian.
1:52:20Hell, we weren't anti-Indian.
1:52:22We were anti their policies.
1:52:24Isn't that really the point you made?
1:52:25Yes, sir.
1:52:25That's the exact point.
1:52:27And that, you know, in this occasion, and that also made the point that if they really believed that, how could they argue against the fact that Henry was the most desired of all briefers?
1:52:36You know, all the newsmen wanted briefings with him more than anyone else other than you.
1:52:41That's right.
1:52:42And he's been...
1:52:44as facts will show well i thought it would sort of boost his spirit up a little bit too that way yeah well i frankly i think it was good that you did it and it's hard to boost his spiritually he sees everything in such personal terms he thinks his credibility is destroyed and you know how he speaks in melodramatic terms but uh and his credibility is not destroyed what do you think i mean i don't think at all because you're an expert on it i i think it's uh
1:53:15What you might do, if you would, is to, in a couple of hours, just on your own, give him a call in California and say you'd had this program.
1:53:25I don't know whether he saw it or not.
1:53:27and that you you feel that this whole business that you he must not just read the new york times and the washington post and figure that because of what some of them said in the news magazines and so forth that but that on balance that most of the press corps is totally a
1:53:43totally against the Anderson thesis.
1:53:45I think that's true.
1:53:46That's what it is.
1:53:48Would you agree or not?
1:53:49No, I would agree.
1:53:50And that basically when they say, talk about Henry's credibility, they're really, more than anything else, they're really trying to nip at us, let's face it.
1:53:59Well, that's, I think, the whole thesis, you know, which you see developing among the Democrats are trying to make credibility an issue.
1:54:07Right.
1:54:08And I think Henry used to serve cotton.
1:54:10Thank God it's on the issue of India and not on the issue of mouse.
1:54:15There aren't that many people in the country.
1:54:16I found in the West that I didn't find a hell of a lot of interest in the Indian thing when I was out there, you know what I mean?
1:54:23I mean, here in Washington, you get to do it.
1:54:25That's all anybody's thinking about.
1:54:27Yeah, that's one of the things you've said before, the great value of being out away from here a little bit.
1:54:33Yeah.
1:54:33That there's more perspective that way.
1:54:35Well, use your judgment.
1:54:36Give him a call.
1:54:37I will.
1:54:37Don't let it appear too obvious.
1:54:39No, I'll just say that there might be a lot of reactions from the show.
1:54:42A lot of reactions, and that you've talked to Pressman and the rest, and that you think the whole thing is turning around, and that he just ought to.
1:54:51Just have in mind that there are just a lot of press men that say privately they're furious at the way they're handling this thing, and that they believe that this is a question of just twisting things.
1:55:02I certainly will.
1:55:03As a matter of fact, I've really received a lot of calls and wires from people saying they're glad to see me, you know, get back on our side on it.
1:55:12And people like, I'll tell them like Irv Kupson, that's one, who he knows and likes.
1:55:16Great.
1:55:17You do that.
1:55:17Will you do it, Irv?
1:55:18Yes, sir.
1:55:18All right.
1:55:19Thank you so much.
1:55:23Hello?
1:55:23Senator Robert Dole, sir.
1:55:24Hello?
1:55:25On the line, sir.
1:55:26Mr. President?
1:55:27I'm just returning your call.
1:55:29I was out last night, and... Well, you had a good day yesterday.
1:55:32Yeah, well, Mrs. Nixon did a hell of a job, and...
1:55:35I understand.
1:55:36She got a great reception when she returned, which she deserved.
1:55:39I didn't expect you to return my call.
1:55:41I just wanted to extend you best wishes for a good year.
1:55:44Well, are you in Kansas?
1:55:46I'm in Miami.
1:55:47Miami.
1:55:48Oh, boy.
1:55:50That's too bad.
1:55:51Yeah, it's too bad.
1:55:51I called B.B.
1:55:52Rebozo before I came down to get the weather report.
1:55:54He said it's going to be all right.
1:55:55Well, give him a call and go over and see him.
1:55:58Talk a little politics.
1:55:59Why don't you do that?
1:56:00I might do that.
1:56:00He's a good guy.
1:56:01Yeah, well, you call him and go out to dinner with him.
1:56:04I'll be down here tonight and tomorrow night.
1:56:06Well, fine.
1:56:07He'll enjoy seeing you, and he's totally reliable on Florida.
1:56:11Right.
1:56:11Totally reliable.
1:56:12Might be a good thing to do.
1:56:13Yeah.
1:56:13Are you feeling all right?
1:56:15I'm feeling good.
1:56:17Fine.
1:56:17Well, you get ready for the big battle of the next year.
1:56:19We're going to have – I'm working.
1:56:22I'm sort of going out of communication for a week while I prepare the State of the Union.
1:56:27So that's on the 20th.
1:56:29And then we have our big cabinet dinner that night.
1:56:31So we'll get everybody.
1:56:32I'm going to expand that to include the top people in the White House, too, so that everybody, a big family, kind of an affair, you know.
1:56:41Right.
1:56:41That's when we're going to say goodbye to Morris fans, too, for your information.
1:56:45Right.
1:58:43I have General Hank calling you, Mr. President.
1:58:45Hello.
1:58:48Yes, sir.
1:58:48Have you left yet?
1:58:50No, sir.
1:58:50I'm in the office.
1:58:51How do you feel?
1:58:52Oh, fine.
1:58:53Very good.
1:58:53You must be dead.
1:58:54Well, I've got a little cold, and that's...
1:58:56But you're not under the weather or anything, yeah?
1:59:02No, no.
1:59:02What I mean is you must be fatigued.
1:59:04That's what I meant.
1:59:05Well, it's a screwy time schedule.
1:59:08I think we left at about 4 o'clock.
1:59:10Would you like to come over for just a few minutes before I leave?
1:59:13Yes, sir.
1:59:14I'm over at the EOB.
1:59:15Fine, sir.
1:59:15I'll be right there.
1:59:21Ziegler?
1:59:22Thank you.
1:59:22Mr. Ziegler.
1:59:25Hello.
1:59:26Hello.
1:59:27Yes, sir.
1:59:27Well, you must have had quite an experience.
1:59:29Yes, it was really something.
1:59:31Yeah, yeah.
1:59:32Well, it's probably worth all your hour or three years of work, wasn't it, to go over there?
1:59:36It certainly was an experience, and I appreciate having the opportunity.
1:59:39Everything is going all right?
1:59:40Yes, they were very cooperative, extremely cooperative, and very warm.
1:59:47When are you going to let the press know that they're only going to have 80?
1:59:51In the next week or so.
1:59:53I discussed that with the Chinese, and we're going to do that the next week.
1:59:57I had Jerry Warren.
1:59:58I told him that the question was raised that he should knock down the IDF-200, which some of them have floated.
2:00:03Right.
2:00:03I was just talking to Jerry.
2:00:05And I say that we just, that's not the question.
2:00:08Right.
2:00:08That it's far less than that.
2:00:11So that we do go out at least, because I think the 80 is about the right number.
2:00:15Did they accept our names pretty well?
2:00:18Down the line.
2:00:20Down right accepted the whole thing, just as presented.
2:00:24They were very responsive.
2:00:25There's no way to, you can't get any, do anything with regard to a Dick Wilson or a Timish, for example.
2:00:34Well, I was thinking of them on the basis of they're going to write books.
2:00:39That's another way that it occurred to me, but I don't know.
2:00:43We did not want to raise any additional numbers there.
2:00:46I don't mean numbers, but these could be names to substitute if necessary.
2:00:50Well, there might be a way we could work around that.
2:00:53That's what Dick Wilson, I think, had on your final list anyway.
2:00:56He's on the list.
2:00:58Well, we'll take a look at the Timish one then later.
2:01:00All right.
2:01:01The evening that Premier Cho and I received it, he said to me that he felt that the Chinese table tennis team could...
2:01:16come to the United States in the spring and ask me to convey that to the president of the Table Tennis Association.
2:01:23Okay.
2:01:24That's great.
2:01:25Well, get some rest.
2:01:27Thank you, Mr. President.
2:01:29Just to read your wires to me, I better give Scali a call, too.
2:01:32Scali?
2:01:34John Scali, please.
2:01:35Thank you, sir.
2:01:39Hello.
2:01:40Mr. Scali, Mr. President.
2:01:41Hello.
2:01:42Yes, Mr. President.
2:01:42I was just sitting here with Al, and I said to him that you and he and Ziegler now must realize that coming to the White House isn't as worth it after all.
2:01:52Well, it was a great experience.
2:01:54Wasn't it really something?
2:01:55Yes, it was.
2:01:56The best part was knowing that it has well-prepared your forthcoming visit yourself.
2:02:02Yeah.
2:02:03Was it useful, you think, for you to go out?
2:02:04I thought it was.
2:02:05Oh, I thought it was enormously useful.
2:02:07Yeah, and you got a good feel of them and us and what we're going to do and so forth.
2:02:11And I'm very encouraged.
2:02:13Well, go home and get a little sleep.
2:02:15Will do.
2:02:16All right, John.
2:02:21I think the 80 is about the right number.
2:02:24Did they accept our names pretty well?
2:02:26Down the line.
2:02:27Down right, accepted the whole thing, just as presented.
2:02:31They were very responsive.
2:02:33There's no way to, you can't get any, do anything, whether they regard to a Dick Wilson or a Timish, for example.
2:02:41Well, I was thinking of them on the basis of they're going to write books.
2:02:46That's another way that it occurred to me, but I don't know.
2:02:50We did not want to raise any additional numbers there.
2:02:53I don't mean numbers, but these could be names to substitute if necessary.
2:02:57Well, there might be a way we could work around that.
2:03:00That's what Dick Wilson, you, I think, had on your final list anyway.
2:03:04He's on the list.
2:03:05Well, we'll take a look at the Timish one then later.
2:03:08All right.
2:03:09The evening that Premier Chiu-en-lai received it, he said to me that he wanted the, he felt that the Chinese table tennis team could come to the United States in the spring and asked me to convey that to the president of the Table Tennis Association.
2:03:31Okay.
2:03:31That's great.
2:03:32Well, get some rest.
2:03:33Thank you, Mr. President.
2:03:37Just to read your wires to me, I better give Scali a call, too.
2:03:40Scali?
2:03:42John Scali, please.
2:03:43Thank you, sir.
2:03:47Hello.
2:03:47Mr. Scali, Mr. President.
2:03:49Hello.
2:03:49Yes, Mr. President.
2:03:50I was just sitting here with Al, and I said to him that you and he and Ziegler now must realize that coming to the White House isn't as worth it after all.
2:04:00Well, it was a great experience.
2:04:01Wasn't it really something?
2:04:03Yes.
2:04:03The best part was knowing that it is a well-prepared year for a forthcoming visit to your center.
2:04:09Yeah.
2:04:09Was it useful, you think, for you to go out?
2:04:12I thought it was.
2:04:12Oh, I thought it was enormously useful.
2:04:14Yeah, and you got a good feel of them and us and what we're going to do and so forth.
2:04:18And I'm very encouraged.
2:04:21Well, get home and get a little sleep.
2:04:23Will do.
2:04:24All right, John.
2:04:28Mr. Haldeman calling, sir.
2:04:30Hello.
2:04:30Mr. Haldeman calling, sir.
2:04:33Yeah.
2:04:38Hello.
2:04:38Yes, sir.
2:04:40Just got Henry and filled him in on the thing.
2:04:44He said that Laird had called him back at noon and confirmed that he'd go with the 70.
2:04:49So he had covered it with him and had agreed to do it.
2:04:58Yeah, filled him full of all the Rush stuff and he thought that was great.
2:05:04And covered the whole thing of what Max Frankel had told him and that he had done exactly the right thing in India-Pakistan and that even West Bengal may still break up and would have done the other thing.
2:05:22that uh well you know he'll work close russia wants to work closely with us understands the situation exactly and you know has his close relationship with mitchell that'll be helpful to us and the whole good covered that whole ground he's uh he's still concerned apparently there's a rumor in the press now that he's resigning so he's he thinks that
2:05:45he's convinced that you know they're running they are running a major campaign against him briefings on all this stuff and that the leak has given him the excuse for doing all this and he got his report from Rabin and they're pressing Rabin to go back into negotiations they're giving ground on the airplanes and
2:06:08Well, what do you think of that?
2:06:09The grieving ground in the airplanes is all right, isn't it?
2:06:11Yeah, that's what they're supposed to do.
2:06:13I said, have they done anything that they weren't supposed to do?
2:06:15And he said, yeah, they shouldn't call Rabin in without telling us, and then pushing them to go back into negotiations will hurt because it'll louse up what we're doing with the Soviets.
2:06:24Yeah, well, the point is, now, wait a minute, I talked to them about it, that we, I said, that we'll give you the planes, I said, and then you can...
2:06:34You can, you know, drag around the negotiations you do.
2:06:37That's your public track.
2:06:38But privately, we're going to make the deal in another way.
2:06:42Henry understands that.
2:06:44They're playing according to the game, Bob.
2:06:46They really are.
2:06:47He doesn't say so, huh?
2:06:49No, he didn't.
2:06:50I think he must feel that because he didn't get very stirred up about it.
2:06:53Because I said, well, can we use this as an example?
2:06:55And as Mitchell had talked about, and he said, well, we can't, of course, tell State we know about the meeting with Rubin because Rubin's the one that told us.
2:07:02So we just got to refer to the fact that they
2:07:05We know they're having these meetings without keeping us notified and all that.
2:07:09We can do that.
2:07:11Well, they've given on the planes, old Bob.
2:07:13That's what I had ordered them to do, and they did it.
2:07:15Well, apparently they are, so they're doing what they're supposed to do.
2:07:21Well, about rumors of resigning, that's inevitable that people are going to, I mean, but that might not be from state, you know what I mean?
2:07:28It could be just some party in the press.
2:07:31I'm not...
2:07:33I mean, and the thing to do is to...
2:07:37He's picking them all.
2:07:38They're all calling.
2:07:39He's got another one that three different people checked with him today or checked his office because a senior official has told them that Kissinger refused to provide new instructions for SALT because he's afraid the Chinese would be mad if they did anything before the Chinese visit.
2:07:56Well, of course...
2:07:57the problem is he really is stalling salt till after the Chinese visit but that's so you can sign it in Moscow rather than oh sure because he's worried about the Chinese but anyway there's something to that and then someone else called him that you had told Golda Meir that our biggest interest in the Middle East was NATO and you know what he's saying what his point is that there he was there people are doing a lot of leaking and briefings and
2:08:23bureaucracy type stuff to try and shaft him.
2:08:31It's the same syndrome.
2:08:32So at this point there's nothing that can be done or should be done.
2:08:38I just talked to Al and he just left and I said for him just to
2:08:43get his mind on China, get Henry's mind as much as possible.
2:08:46And he said, well, Henry just needed a lot of constant care and that he'd try to give it to him now that he's back.
2:08:53I told Al briefly what situation it had been.
2:09:00Well, it's one of those things.
2:09:01I think your call was probably worthwhile, though.
2:09:05Or was it, do you think?
2:09:05Yeah.
2:09:06No, I think it was.
2:09:07And I think he's
2:09:08You know, he's going through this.
2:09:11It's a good thing because he gets these calls.
2:09:14He just shouldn't sit there when he's supposed to be getting out the world report and take calls from these goddamn newspaper people.
2:09:20That's really the problem, isn't it?
2:09:22Yep.
2:09:23But there's no way.
2:09:25No way.
2:09:26We've tried that every way we can.
2:09:27He just won't.
2:09:29He won't not take the calls.
2:09:33He's scared to death, you know, there's something that will happen that he won't know about.
2:09:38He gets all this stuff, but it's the same kind of thing as sitting reading a ticker.
2:09:44It's a terrible, terrible waste of his time.
2:09:46That's right.
2:09:47And gets him stirred up about the wrong things.
2:09:49That's correct.
2:09:50That's correct.
2:09:52I just think of the things you'd be stirred up about if you took every call from him.
2:09:57Sure, and you get stirred up enough as it is.
2:10:00That's right.
2:10:01Sure, but you...
2:10:02You can't do that.
2:10:03You can't do that.
2:10:04The reason we've been relatively successful is, and through very difficult times, is by, you know, not getting stirred up.
2:10:11Yeah.
2:10:12Don't plan to.
2:10:13Yeah.
2:10:14Okay.
2:10:15Then you and John should have your meeting with Bill tomorrow.
2:10:17Right.
2:10:18We'll go ahead with that.
2:10:18That'll be useful.
2:10:21And that'll be that.
2:10:23Okay.
2:10:26Nothing else of interest at the moment.
2:10:28I'll go over to the residents, I guess.
2:10:31Okay.
2:10:32Thank you.
2:10:34Hello.
2:10:44Will you survive the day?
2:10:49Oh, well.
2:10:53Well, stay in bed.
2:10:54Are you in bed or just home?
2:11:00Absolutely.
2:11:02Well, you were, no, but you've been pushing hard, you know, and I know you haven't been in the sun much, but stay right there and don't, we're needed for other battles.
2:11:14Sure.
2:11:16I know.
2:11:17I know.
2:11:50Right.
2:12:06I suppose the bombing, too.
2:12:16Yeah, it's a bad time.
2:12:19We'd better expect the polls to go up and down, though.
2:13:06Thank you.
2:14:19That's not bad, though.
2:14:21No, it isn't.
2:14:21That's, you know, considering the 53 could have been a flip-up, you see, 49.
2:14:29And if it's 49-47 here, it's still 49-15 Gallup, you know, that's what it is.
2:15:02Well, I don't mind the 49-47.
2:15:06Yeah.
2:15:09Oh, that'll pass.
2:15:18It'll pass because basically that's just a press thing.
2:15:23And it passes because people realize it doesn't affect them.
2:15:34Yeah.
2:15:36That's understandable.
2:15:59during the bounties, you know, it wouldn't be affecting them.
2:16:03Sure.
2:16:03And on the, on the, it would affect them very, very low rates.
2:16:09Oh, well, I'm sure of that.
2:16:10Yeah, very low.
2:16:11Couldn't possibly get anything else.
2:16:12There were only two areas in which Bunchy made any gains over, from the previous bowl, one would be good.
2:16:22Over 15-7, you know, that would be good.
2:16:25They would be,
2:16:30It's certainly important.
2:16:31That's right.
2:16:32Now, on the economic side, that's what we're going to have to do.
2:16:34Very, very important.
2:16:35That's good, because you're the world change department.
2:16:38I'm not sure we have a good environment.
2:16:40We are going to have to do it.
2:16:42Because for the first time in two years, the majority, and I'm going to play this very nice song, the majority of the American people do not think frankly about what we're going to do.
2:16:58Now, in November,
2:17:00That was the first time in 30 years when the majority of the message was not believed to be a recession.
2:17:09In terms of doing work at the time to make the next amount of policy, you get a 40-year, 20-year, 30-year, 50-year, 50-year.
2:17:19People favor it because it goes on for many years, but it doesn't take much longer.
2:17:25And then he's got another poll.
2:17:27you know that let me say that doesn't bother me because this is well to show mother keep burrowing people on edge and letting me be up now you know how to get down with it well i had three people
2:18:00Which candidate do you believe does a better job with the final candidate?
2:18:34The next one is very bad in this place.
2:18:42The truck is the most impressive.
2:18:52It's a man in white and it's a .
2:19:00.
2:19:00.
2:19:00.
2:19:00.
2:19:00.
2:19:00.
2:19:01.
2:19:01.
2:19:01.
2:19:01.
2:19:01.
2:19:01.
2:19:01. .
2:19:05They're all kind of close, so... Yeah.
2:19:21Yeah.
2:19:39Thank you.
2:20:27Well, I don't think, frankly, I'm not surprised because I'm inclined to think that more than India, Pakistan, which I don't think affects a hell of a lot of people, I think the bombing thing probably hurt them.
2:20:37The bombing may have been because it may have just been in the news so much.
2:20:41It sort of makes me wonder whether the war is still going.
2:20:44Well, that's right.
2:20:44And in the negative column, the president says, you didn't really do badly in any of these things.
2:20:57they're not sure it's one way up well we have
2:21:21We've got to figure that our economic stuff helps with our foreign policy, sort of, but we aren't.
2:21:26We're still in pretty good shape.
2:21:28You say that his positive-negative is 49-47?
2:21:31That's pretty good for Harris.
2:21:32Well, that's right.
2:21:32Now, you've got to remember that's Gallup.
2:21:36You're going to be 49 with Gallup, too.
2:21:38That's right.
2:21:39I would think so.
2:21:41Well, we should be.
2:21:43I think we were in that last Gallup vote.
2:21:44We were in that last Gallup vote.
2:22:08And then it dropped down to...
2:22:12So you see if the...
2:22:16So you...
2:22:17It may be comparing it with the second... No, that's right.
2:22:22You said we were actually... Up in the real figure.
2:22:29Right.
2:22:29After the U.S. goes to the foreign aid, it drops down to China.
2:22:39No, it's not bad.
2:22:41But as he said, if he could even hold what we have right now, just as he did, if this is winning, because he went on the issue, with the economic stuff turning up, he feels the economy looks good.
2:22:59Yes, he said that's been shown as an absolute steady increase.
2:23:04And in every category it has.
2:23:06I just...
2:23:08went through some with him in depth stuff.
2:23:15You know, in July he was rated 2273 and that's now 3856, which is up for November 3460.
2:23:26And that's just every single error code when it's rated 451.
2:23:31Still not even, but coming up.
2:23:34That's right, but that gets up to 5060.
2:23:37Well, he wasn't disturbed by it.
2:23:39He wanted to.
2:23:40He doesn't see it.
2:23:43He doesn't personally see it.
2:23:48He doesn't think about it.
2:23:50He doesn't like it.
2:23:53He doesn't.
2:23:57He doesn't.
2:23:58He doesn't.
2:24:01He doesn't.
2:24:02He doesn't.
2:24:04He doesn't.
2:24:04He doesn't.
2:24:15Okay, what else is there?
2:25:21That was the biggest thing I said.
2:25:24Of course, that isn't reflected in this either.
2:25:26We've had some very positive stuff in the last week.
2:25:29They had this, the Japanese.
2:25:30I think that isn't reflected in the poll.
2:25:36No, it wouldn't be, because January 4th would have been a great event.
2:25:45That would be a bad event.
2:25:46San Diego, that would be a bad event.
2:25:54We pulled at a tough time, so I just well know what it is.
2:26:08At the bombing, you see, even though our
2:26:21Our, uh, the, the, the Man of the Year and all that is coming up, and we have the good Christmas stories, and, uh, we have to realize that what we've done in the public mind, like the television, the bombing, I think that much more than, my guess is, much more than the apocalypse, and that affects people.
2:26:36But, uh, you know, there's an interesting theory, which, uh, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can,
2:26:55If we can't control it, we can't control the world if that wasn't enough.
2:27:18Fire, we're going to get there.
2:28:13Yeah, the markets, we just want to keep it bubbling along.
2:28:23We just want to go up that country, go up there.
2:28:46Thank you.
2:32:18Well, are you keep well now?
2:32:19No, no, but I mean, it's...
2:32:27This is a good time to sort of... You've got a week left.
2:32:40I mean, the 18th...
2:32:53Yes please.
2:32:54Yes sir.
2:32:59Hello.
2:33:09We have Dr. Kirsten here sir.
2:33:11Hello.
2:33:13There you are.
2:33:13Hello.
2:33:14Hope the weather is better there than it is here.
2:33:18Well, it's raining here, so it's good you're there.
2:33:24Yeah.
2:33:25I was wondering this.
2:33:28I saw Hague briefly, and I sent him home to bed.
2:33:30He looked so tired.
2:33:32I saw him.
2:33:32I don't know whether you talked to him, but he... Oh, he's still up?
2:33:37Damn him.
2:33:37I told him to go home and go to bed at 6 o'clock.
2:33:41I said, you go home and go to bed.
2:33:43But he's done a fine job over there, I'm sure.
2:33:46I talked to him about 20 minutes, and he, of course, I told him I'd heard the other reports, but he, Henry, is more optimistic about being able to work out the Taiwan thing than you indicated.
2:34:11Well, let me say that...
2:34:13that it seems to me we have it in the right thing.
2:34:16And believe me, I talked to Ziegler just for a minute.
2:34:21Of course, he and Scali, they both felt and said that they thought it was worth everything just to get to go, you know, all their work in the administration.
2:34:33So it had a great effect on these guys.
2:34:36Even Haig, as much as he's been true, was quite moved by it, don't you think?
2:34:46Oh, hell yes.
2:34:49We know that.
2:34:50We know that.
2:34:50It's one of those things that we know, but it's just going to take a little time to set in, and that's that.
2:35:02On the Bangladesh thing, I noticed that the British and the French were out at the airport, as we might expect,
2:35:13But I feel that our policy should be one of just being quite, yeah, yeah, correct.
2:35:31I get it.
2:35:39Exactly.
2:35:40And that's
2:35:45That's fair enough.
2:35:54Right.
2:35:56Well, look, be that as it may, Haig made another interesting observation.
2:36:00He said that Zhou Enlai told him that they were pretty close to Mujib.
2:36:03See?
2:36:05So that's...
2:36:11That's something that I wouldn't want to digest.
2:36:13I just...
2:36:13But Budo, what's Budo's game then?
2:36:14What's he going to do?
2:36:14Well, Budo, I'm afraid the Pakistanis are going to stop moving forward just because there's not so much flow.
2:36:17Budo's game is going to be to claim for a while some connection to Pakistan, but within three months, I'm sure this will go itself out.
2:36:40Yeah.
2:36:42And then the other hand, Higg also felt that the Chinese, he said, of course, they just may be talking.
2:36:46He said, Zhou Enlai says the Russians and the Indians will live to regret this.
2:36:48I think that's right.
2:36:48I think it's going to happen, Mr. President.
2:36:50Well, the main thing is to just keep our... One thing we have to be careful is that all this bad things are going on.
2:36:57Yeah.
2:36:57About me and about what we did, about me and George Washington, about what we did.
2:36:59Sure.
2:37:03They encouraged me to take...
2:37:12Oh, boy.
2:37:13You mean militarily?
2:37:26Yeah, but you understand.
2:37:27I know.
2:37:27I know the other one.
2:37:31But if West Pakistan survives, I think what's going to happen is that East Bengal, one of the things that will happen, either if you remain a military occupation, which is a military heritage that comes from West Pakistan, or East Pakistan, or Bangladesh, or any of the radical states, that will start attacking West Bengal, this is going to happen.
2:38:06Well, I guess Laird got back to you.
2:38:13I called him immediately and told him that $70,000 was it, and apparently he called you right afterwards.
2:38:22Well, of course he can do it.
2:38:23He's just playing.
2:38:25I don't know what.
2:38:25He knows damn well that's what we have to do.
2:38:28We've got to do just a little more than we've done previously.
2:38:32We're out there.
2:38:33What difference does it make whether we have 69,000 or 75,000 there?
2:38:36Not a bit, does it?
2:38:37Not at all.
2:38:52Well, we're not going to go, though, with the offer of not running, that's for sure.
2:38:57That's out.
2:38:59Well, and I don't think we should ever offer it.
2:39:03I think this is plenty, and we'll just keep that one to ourselves.
2:39:08It isn't necessary at all.
2:39:12It does show, though, that we all know that historically he was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in order to bring the darn thing to an end.
2:39:23Now, tell me, with regard to Eimlich, as you know him,
2:39:26meshed in the State of the Union at the moment.
2:39:32But I will wait.
2:39:33When you get back Thursday, and you'll have some sort of a draft of the first one, I mean of the 18th one.
2:39:44And you still feel good about that date, do you?
2:39:52On the other hand, I think it's best to get it behind us
2:39:57Yeah.
2:39:57Well, I think... Yeah.
2:40:04Yeah.
2:40:05Yeah.
2:40:11That's my view.
2:40:12I'd like to just put a lot on the Congress's plate and confuse the hell out of them right at the beginning.
2:40:23Although, as you know,
2:40:26It isn't going to satisfy them.
2:40:28They'll up and say, well, why don't you offer that or this or that or the other thing.
2:40:36You know, Humphrey's announcement was made today, and I understand he said that if he had been president, we would have been out of Vietnam by now.
2:40:44That's your easy way to second-guess it, isn't it?
2:40:52Yeah, and he showed damn little to suggest while we were trying to
2:40:57Well, that's neither here nor there.
2:41:04You don't feel so?
2:41:13I think that what we may find, I think we do, that the bombing itself had a temporary blip because it just worried people, you know.
2:41:23Yeah.
2:41:25Yes, within a week.
2:41:26And particularly, it will be forgotten, we have the withdrawal on Thursday.
2:41:28Again, I can't judge on you, but most of those people that look to those Democrats that I know, nobody in Pakistan knows them.
2:41:46They're not, huh?
2:41:47And what do they say in India-Pakistan?
2:41:48They just don't understand it, do they?
2:41:51They think it's confusing, and they know that we didn't win, and that worries them.
2:42:00Yeah, I know.
2:42:01They don't like to support the losers.
2:42:04But we know why we did.
2:42:08I had a very good talk with Rush, as I think Bob may have told you.
2:42:13And he is, we've got a total, I had the colonel leave the room, or whoever he is,
2:42:20And then I talked to Rush alone for about 25 minutes, and I said, no, look, I laid it all out.
2:42:25Perfectly worked out with Mitchell as the communications belt.
2:42:30See what I mean?
2:42:32Which I think is really, really very good.
2:42:36I said, the main reason I wanted to take this job is because he'd be sitting in the Wesson meetings.
2:42:44And I said, no, you have in Mitchell a man you totally trust.
2:42:49you can always talk to, so he won't have the problem of going to me over Laird's head, you see what I mean?
2:42:56Oh, yeah, well, that's understood.
2:42:59No, but what I meant is, I said he could, he understands that.
2:43:02Yes, yes, yes, there's no question about that, but you know what I mean, he's, as you know, he and Mitchell are great, great, well, they're very close, particularly on a number of issues, you know, and it'll be a very, very salutary arrangement.
2:43:18And, uh,
2:43:19Laird said an interesting thing.
2:43:20He said six months ago he recommended him for this job.
2:43:25Oh, I see.
2:43:27Well, I wondered what it was.
2:43:30But in any event, Laird seemed to be happy about it at this point.
2:43:35Well, at least he can't say anything else because he knows that I was cast, and I think we've done exactly the right thing, don't you?
2:43:43I just... Because he's going to have to
2:43:47take a wallop on his conflict of interest because that company of his has a tremendous amount of defense business, of course, just like Packard's.
2:43:57But that's inevitable with anybody that we put in this job.
2:44:00And the fact that he's been ambassador to Germany, I think, and he's been confirmed to the Senate there will help him in confirmation here.
2:44:10He's going to see Laird tomorrow and have a talk with him.
2:44:15Well, the point is that
2:44:17He will be, Henry, far more effective, in my view, than Packard in the clutch.
2:44:26You know what I mean?
2:44:28Not that Packard was totally loyal, but I mean that... Yeah, yeah.
2:44:34And he will know how to play the game.
2:44:37That's my point.
2:44:38And he'll know, as I told him, I said, we just had to do some things from the White House that...
2:44:43I didn't sometimes want to go through the secretary on it, and I said he had to understand that.
2:44:47He said, oh yes, he understood.
2:44:49He didn't have to spell out a thing, because I think, see, he knows about Berlin and all the other things.
2:44:54So that's that.
2:44:55Well, anyway, I hope, you say you're making good progress on the report?
2:44:58Yeah, I think that's that.
2:45:01How many people do you have there working on it?
2:45:04Good, good, well, I'll give them my best.
2:45:06Yeah, well, at least...
2:45:13at least we'll get a little play.
2:45:15And incidentally, that's the place to have a damn good chapter in India and Pakistan, don't you think?
2:45:21That's the place to do it.
2:45:22Don't do it till then.
2:45:23And that's enough.
2:45:27Well, I heard you did.
2:45:28I had mixed emotions.
2:45:29I told Bob that I told you to go ahead, whatever you want to do.
2:45:33But it just may be as well to let them blow for a while and then go on.
2:45:40And then we speak out on this.
2:45:43But before that, of course, I'll be having a press conference, and they can hit me with it, and I'll knock it down quickly and then come on with the annual report.
2:45:53What's the date of that again?
2:45:59About February 8th.
2:46:00Sure, well, I see.
2:46:05That's a good date, because my press conference is scheduled for the 10th, June 10th.
2:46:11That's what I meant.
2:46:11If you go the 8th and the 10th, I can give it another flip, you see.
2:46:15It'll get a big, it'll make it there.
2:46:17You don't want to launch it at the press conference?
2:46:23No, because I'll tell you why.
2:46:26The thing is that if I launch it at the press conference, they'll ask a question about something totally unrelated that will lead it, see?
2:46:33And I want this to lead by itself.
2:46:35So you ought to run this and lead and get a two-day ride on it.
2:46:39the press conference comes, then we'll get another ride on it, see?
2:46:43You see the point.
2:46:44I know these people.
2:46:45They'll ask some political question, and some jackass question will lead the other question.
2:46:50And the report will be a secondary story, and they must not have that.
2:46:55The 8th is a good date, just looking at the book here.
2:46:57Yeah, it's a very good date, if you can make it for that.
2:47:01And if you can't, we'll shove it to the 15th.
2:47:06I know, I know, but what I meant is...
2:47:08If you can't make it by the 8th, I understand your problem, but if you can't make it by the 8th, don't feel that it's life or death.
2:47:15Yeah, but that's good from our standpoint.
2:47:17We go on the 8th, I do a press conference on the 10th, and then from there on we're preparing for China.
2:47:23When do we leave China?
2:47:2415th?
2:47:2616th?
2:47:30Yeah, well, I want to have everything out of the way on the 10th, which I will.
2:47:33I'm going to Florida then.
2:47:36and relax and get my energy back.
2:47:48Sure.
2:47:49Well, you see, I'm scheduling nothing from the 10th on.
2:47:53I'm going to try to... Well, but it's five days of...
2:48:02Well, I'm keeping the schedule very loose between the 20th and then 2, you know.
2:48:05I have a... except the press thing.
2:48:13Well, I will except for one press conference.
2:48:15I should have one before I leave.
2:48:18And that, of course, always takes two days.
2:48:19So except for those two days, I'm going to keep it.
2:48:20I'll take another look at this tomorrow and be sure that between the 1st and the 8th, the 1st and the 10th, that I'm as clear as possible.
2:48:39I understand those two days, but except for those...
2:48:48Well, the problem is, you know, we've got those borders that you have to see.
2:48:51Listen, Colombo's off.
2:48:51Isn't that off?
2:48:52Well, we've got to offer it.
2:48:54We hope that we get knocked out of office before then.
2:48:55I see.
2:48:56Well, do you think we have to offer it to him?
2:49:10We've already offered it.
2:49:17Yeah, I understand.
2:49:21Well, okay.
2:49:35I see.
2:49:36Okay.
2:49:37Well, I won't bother you.
2:49:40It's only 5 o'clock out there.
2:49:41It's 6.
2:49:41All right.
2:49:43Well, you've got to... Good evening.
2:49:45Okay.
2:49:45Bye.
2:49:50Yes, please.
2:49:50Olson, please.
2:49:51Thank you.
2:49:55Hello.
2:49:55Mr. Olson, sir.
2:49:57Hello.
2:49:57Good morning, Mr. President.
2:49:58Well, you're still in bed.
2:50:00Well, I'm home.
2:50:01That's good.
2:50:01I'm sitting up at my desk today.
2:50:03Well, now, don't press yourself, because there are other things, too, games we can play.
2:50:09I'm like you are.
2:50:10Still got a fever?
2:50:10Hate to be down.
2:50:11I think I do a little bit, but...
2:50:14Well, just nurse it out, believe me, because when you've got one, you've got to play it very close to the vest.
2:50:20After four days, I'm a little sick of it, I guess.
2:50:22Yeah, I know.
2:50:23Right, right, right.
2:50:25It's itchy to get going.
2:50:26Sure, sure.
2:50:27Okay.
2:50:29That's good.
2:50:29Well, we won't bother you there.
2:50:31I'm going to leave today to work at Camp David and work for a couple days in the State of the Union, so...
2:50:36I'm going out of circulation.
2:50:39Well, it's a good time for all of us to kind of take care of things.
2:50:41I've been sitting here this morning just sort of reviewing what things I have to do and try to get down.
2:50:47I guess every now and then to stand back from the back.
2:50:51Sure, sure, sure.
2:50:52Maybe a blessing in disguise.
2:50:54Yeah, not be too concerned about what happens at the moment, but more in terms of the other things.
2:51:01As I say, the
2:51:03You know, I was thinking, too, that typical like our Dr. Harris poll, I actually think that's really about what I would expect and pretty good at this time, having in mind what we've been through, you know.
2:51:17Although we did have very positive stuff.
2:51:19Unfortunately, if we hadn't had the bombing, frankly, I don't think the Indian thing is, I would disagree with him on that because I know enough about the male reaction risk, but
2:51:27with the bombing, but if we hadn't had that, we'd have probably been up around 53 or 54 again.
2:51:33I think so.
2:51:34That's one of those things.
2:51:35I think it's the bombing.
2:51:37And the fact that it didn't change significantly with Humphrey or Kennedy is also amusing and interesting.
2:51:42It shows you that Muskie has a certain solid hole there.
2:51:46I read Hallett's memorandum.
2:51:48I think there's a lot in that.
2:51:50I'm not sure that I...
2:51:52I mean, it may be that he's...
2:51:55that he sees all of our weaknesses and none of their weaknesses, but that's inevitable.
2:52:00No, but he does that deliberately, Mr. President.
2:52:02Yeah, but I mean, and he should.
2:52:04But what I meant is that they have some problems, too.
2:52:07But on the other hand, his point that we have really had a lot of bombshells and still are only running two to three points better than we were before is a pretty good point, you know?
2:52:18Well, it is, except
2:52:19But I disagree with him on this, that I think we were, I think that the bombshells helped bring us back from a period in which we had been pretty well down.
2:52:27You know, if you look at the poles like... You mean in the spring?
2:52:29In the spring.
2:52:31That was really rough going.
2:52:32Yeah.
2:52:33He had just murdered us on Laos.
2:52:35Yeah, that was a rough time.
2:52:37That's when we had our lowest point.
2:52:38Yes, sir.
2:52:39And to be able to... Then we came back up in Gallup to about 50, and we've stayed there ever since.
2:52:44Exactly.
2:52:44But to be able to bring it back and hold it more here, I think, is good.
2:52:48It's interesting.
2:52:49Excuse me.
2:52:51I talked to Buchanan this morning, and Pat is doing a lot of research on the Democratic opponents, and I told him of the poll with Harris, and it was an honest poll.
2:53:01Lou was working with us, and he said, I would have expected...
2:53:05muskie to have been ahead of us and i said why is that he said well my god he said you look at the media he's had a solid month of blooming plus very positive publicity that's right and he said you're just going to have to because we've had some too we've had it too but he yeah but muskie came out of kind of out of obscurity where he was three or four months right and i put on a real drive
2:53:29So we've probably done better than we deserve.
2:53:31He thinks that Muskie will not be able to sustain that.
2:53:38unless he really gets a bandwagon going, wins the primaries, then he's going to be tough for us because he will avoid the... Well, he could have problems there.
2:53:49I'm now convinced by something we've got to be sure that he does have.
2:53:54I don't know that we can, but we'll see.
2:53:56Well, in all ways possible to us.
2:53:58On Hallett's memo, I had some reservations on sending that to you.
2:54:01No, no, I want to see some now and then, something like that.
2:54:03I have to remember with Doug that he...
2:54:05He never gives us credit for it, deliberately.
2:54:08And I make this point with him.
2:54:09I say, Doug, you don't give us credit for things.
2:54:11And he said, no, I don't consider that my role here.
2:54:13He wants to take a chance to keep my detached object.
2:54:19And he said, I think you're making, he said, I think we make three or four.
2:54:22He sure gives the speechwriters hell.
2:54:25Very narrow on that.
2:54:26He thinks that we need a Nathan Glazer or a Daniel Boorstin.
2:54:29Yeah, well, you can't get them.
2:54:32Give us an intellectual.
2:54:33Yeah.
2:54:35Well, it's inevitable.
2:54:38He may have a point there.
2:54:38Well, you can't get them, so there's the point.
2:54:41It's well taken, but they won't come.
2:54:44Well, he argues, of course, with the muskie inroads in the suburbs that if we had someone who would...
2:54:54this is maybe more of an eastern attitude however you can't tell about that too yeah he doesn't i don't think he would see for example that value of the meaning thing or did he see it oh yeah oh god he thought that was one of the strongest things well good he thought that was tremendous
2:55:08Well, look, you get back to your, back to your, get rid of your cold here.
2:55:13A parliament just came in, and he says to take off, take off 10 minutes.
2:55:17Okay.
2:55:17I'll take it off, but I'll be here if you want.
2:55:19No, really, really, don't, because we're, I'm going to be out of circulation for a couple days, and everybody can rest, okay?
2:55:24Well, I appreciate your call.
2:55:27Thank you.
2:55:30Dr. Kissinger, please.
2:55:31Thank you, Mr. President.
2:55:35Hello?
2:55:35Dr. Kissinger, Mr. President.
2:55:36Hello?
2:55:37Hello?
2:55:37Well, how's it going today?
2:55:39You got any more of your work done?
2:55:42Yes, I think we are going to make February 8th now.
2:55:45We're making good progress.
2:55:47We're doing about a chapter a day now.
2:55:50I know it's a terrific job.
2:55:52Yeah, but I think this time we'll get a much better reception.
2:55:55Last year we put it out in the middle of the low ocean period.
2:55:59Oh, God, that's right.
2:56:00It was rough, wasn't it?
2:56:01Well, they didn't attack it, but they sort of buried it because they weren't the place to give you credit for it.
2:56:07Well, I suppose this time we may expect that they'll be banging around there in Tucor and a few other places from what Al tells me.
2:56:15Yeah, I think...
2:56:17But we can't do anything about it, Henry.
2:56:19I mean...
2:56:21As Al was saying, you know, if the South Vietnamese can't handle it now, they never will be able to.
2:56:25Well, that's right.
2:56:27But that's where our move next week is going to help a lot, because if their answer to our peace offer is an offensive...
2:56:33Right.
2:56:34...that should certainly help us in public opinion here.
2:56:37Yeah, that is why...
2:56:40I think making it perhaps on that date, the 18th, is better than waiting because we just don't know when they're going to start hitting.
2:56:50Otherwise, it might look like a reaction to an offensive.
2:56:53Exactly.
2:56:55I think basically the Russians are putting them up to it to overshadow the... We have an intelligence report today in which one of their people in Paris says
2:57:06They're going to do it in February so that they can overshadow your trip to Peking.
2:57:11Uh-huh.
2:57:12Well, it won't do that.
2:57:14I don't think they've got that much power.
2:57:16Yeah.
2:57:18On the other hand, it's a double-edged sword for them because if they do it at that time, you're overshadowing their offensive.
2:57:27Yeah.
2:57:27Mm-hmm.
2:57:29Mm-hmm.
2:57:30I hear from Haig, and you, of course, have had a chance to talk to him personally, and to the others.
2:57:37I don't think there's any question anymore that they're going all out to make the trip.
2:57:42Oh, that's right, right.
2:57:42I haven't talked to the others except briefly, but Haig gave me a rundown.
2:57:46They've paid the price now, and they have no interest.
2:57:49I mean, if they were to make the trip a failure, they've already paid the price for the trip, so...
2:57:59they've got a heavier investment than we have.
2:58:02Sure.
2:58:04Anything further with DeBranin?
2:58:10Have you checked with him yet?
2:58:11As I've checked, he's coming in around the 15th.
2:58:14I see.
2:58:15And I've left word that I want to see him as soon as he comes in.
2:58:18Mm-hmm.
2:58:21Well, that's the way to leave it.
2:58:22In the meantime, you have pending the...
2:58:26the thing from Stans, which...
2:58:28Right.
2:58:30I'll talk to Stans again tomorrow.
2:58:32Yeah.
2:58:33But that thing is going...
2:58:35I have no doubt, Mr. President, they are going to try to embarrass us at the Peking summit.
2:58:40They are really not so much attacking us as Peking.
2:58:43Mm-hmm.
2:58:45I see.
2:58:47Yeah.
2:58:47Mm-hmm.
2:58:51Well, fine, fine.
2:58:52Then you can see them on the 15th, and that's that.
2:58:57I'll see him.
2:58:59If he wants to, yeah.
2:59:00Well, he'll want to.
2:59:02But he's already in.
2:59:04But he's already, they've already indicated he wants to see you.
2:59:07Oh, yes.
2:59:08Oh, yes.
2:59:09They've already said he wants to see me as soon as he comes, yeah.
2:59:12Mm-hmm.
2:59:13Mm-hmm.
2:59:14So... Did you talk to anybody there?
2:59:16I just haven't called Barranzo for a while.
2:59:17No, I talked to Barranzo.
2:59:19Oh, you did?
2:59:20Yes.
2:59:20And...
2:59:20There's no, I have every... How was his temperature?
2:59:25Oh, he's very friendly.
2:59:26Oh.
2:59:28They, in their turn, Mr. President, they are taking a cheap shot at the Chinese right now.
2:59:34Right.
2:59:35But as soon as that one is over, they're going to go all out on theirs.
2:59:42Well, they don't want to overshadow the Peking one, won't they?
2:59:44Of course.
2:59:44That's what I would think.
2:59:46I think they have too heavy an investment in theirs.
2:59:50Right.
2:59:51Right.
2:59:52Well, okay, Henry, we'll...
2:59:55I'll be out of touch now.
2:59:57I'm going to Camp David in a couple of minutes, and I'll be out of touch until Thursday afternoon.
3:00:02I've got to go into some writing, so I won't.
3:00:05But if there's something you have to call me about, you call me, but I won't be calling you, okay?
3:00:09But I'll be coming back Thursday afternoon, Mr. President.
3:00:12I'll bring a draft up at us.
3:00:14Same with Haig.
3:00:14I'm not going to talk to him either, so if you let him know, get in touch with me if there's anything I need to know, but otherwise I'm not going to talk to anybody.
3:00:23I'll have to concentrate on the domestic stuff in the meantime.
3:00:27Haig was telling me that the Laotians want three Arvin divisions in there.
3:00:32Of course, that's out of the question.
3:00:35First, the Arvin wouldn't go without our helicopters, et cetera, and we're just not going to go into that right now.
3:00:41It's too bad, but...
3:00:42It's a tragedy because we're on the verge of victory.
3:00:46That's right.
3:00:47That's right.
3:00:49What do you project in Laos, just to continue deterioration?
3:00:53I think they're going to lose.
3:00:54They're going to...
3:00:57I think they're going to make a major gain in the north, and they may have enough people in Vientiane.
3:01:02But on the other hand, it's a sign of weakness on their part that they have to operate on the trenches.
3:01:08Mm-hmm.
3:01:11Well, there'll be some discussion of Laos here, but let's face it, most Americans are going to say stay the hell out.
3:01:20But I think we'll be dominating the news now.
3:01:23Because when we went into Laos last year, we didn't go in for the purpose of Laos.
3:01:27You know, we pointed that out.
3:01:28We went in for our own purposes.
3:01:32Right.
3:01:32How's the weather?
3:01:33Pretty good, I hope?
3:01:34It's warmed up.
3:01:34It's
3:01:35Isn't that good?
3:01:36Well, I hope you sit out in your little patio there and get a little sun.
3:01:42Okay, Henry.
3:01:43Goodbye.
3:01:43Mr. Bull, please.
3:01:44Thank you, Mr. President.
3:01:56Yeah.
3:01:56Mr. Bull, Mr. President.
3:01:57Yeah.
3:01:57Yes, sir.
3:01:59You can call up the helicopter now.
3:02:01All right, sir.
3:02:01Fine.
3:02:02In ten minutes.
3:02:02Yes, sir.
3:02:03I mean, I'll be there in ten minutes if it's there.
3:02:05Fine.
3:02:06All right, sir.
3:02:06Thank you.
3:02:12Ms. Nixon, please.
3:02:13Yes, sir.
3:02:24Hello.
3:02:24Mrs. Nixon.
3:02:25Hello.
3:02:26Hi.
3:02:27How'd the tea go?
3:02:28Oh, about 350 ladies.
3:02:30That's great.
3:02:31But it went well.
3:02:32They all commented on the trip.
3:02:34I'll bet they did.
3:02:36Yeah.
3:03:28Ziegler, please.
3:03:36Thank you.
3:03:36Hello.
3:03:36Yes, sir.
3:03:37I run with regard to that television show of Mrs. Dixon's.
3:03:41Yes.
3:03:42Let me say how I want you to handle it.
3:03:45First, talk to Connie.
3:03:48Right.
3:03:50See if she thinks as I think she does that this is vicious, as Mrs. Dixon thought.
3:03:55Right.
3:03:56Then second, look at it.
3:03:57Yes, I will.
3:03:58and make your own determination.
3:04:00Third, though, the main thing is that, you know, we've got to use Barbara Waller.
3:04:05We know that people are against her and for us.
3:04:08But I want her directly to be called and say, you thought it was a low shot.
3:04:13If you believe that.
3:04:15You know, look, Barbara, we're trying to cooperate in the rest.
3:04:18Why don't you take just a cheap shot and really cut yourself off from the White House and let her come back, OK?
3:04:24I have the number of wedges I can put into her.
3:04:27I'll take it.
3:04:28I'll look at it in the morning.
3:04:34Waller shouldn't have done it.
3:04:36Of course, Connie was... And the other thing is, in the future, I want you to tell Connie, and it's a strict rule, that nothing is to be done for any of these specials on television without total clearance for the White House and editorial control.
3:04:51Why the hell should we?
3:04:53Now,
3:04:55if we're on a press conference or the rest, that's something else again.
3:04:58But let's have editorial control because what this did was to raise hell with a lot of press people that had covered her on the trip.
3:05:05They said, why the Christ are you giving that to Barbara Walters who wasn't on the trip?
3:05:08I don't want to be critical of Connie on this.
3:05:11I'm sure that she felt she had that type of arrangement.
3:05:14But I'll talk to Connie about it.
3:05:15All right, fine.
3:05:17But you do that and give me your report about 11 o'clock tomorrow, okay?
3:05:20And give Mr. Dixon a report, will you?
3:05:22All right, fine.
3:05:28Mr. Coulson, please.
3:05:29Mr. Coulson, please.
3:05:31Thank you.
3:05:31Hello.
3:05:33Good evening, Mr. President.
3:05:36You're checking on your health.
3:05:37How is it?
3:05:38Oh, it's fine.
3:05:38Thank you, sir.
3:05:39Much better.
3:05:40I feel much better.
3:05:40Good.
3:05:41Good.
3:05:41Fine.
3:05:41Good.
3:05:41Good.
3:05:41Anything else new?
3:05:42Well, a few things today.
3:05:44Most of the news we made was, of course, the report on Tiffany's trip.
3:05:53Yeah.
3:05:53Yeah.
3:07:05Yes, I did.
3:07:14Right.
3:07:26Get Muskie on busing, too.
3:07:27Put Muskie on the side of busing.
3:07:31I want a massive campaign so he's on the side of busing.
3:07:37The little project is not enough, Chuck.
3:07:39I want a massive public campaign that Muskie is for busing.
3:07:44All right?
3:07:50Sure.
3:07:50It's a Richmond case.
3:07:54Well, what I'm really saying is this.
3:07:58Get Agnew to hit it, get Journey to hit it, but get everybody to put Muskie on the side of busing.
3:08:07He is for busing in Florida and nationally.
3:08:11And let him deny it.
3:08:12Now, but this must start tomorrow at about 8 o'clock in the morning, okay?
3:08:16You're right to work.
3:08:21It's a major issue, and we've got to put him on the spot that he is for busing.
3:08:26market for both of them have everybody else packing for paperback well i think that it hit him just get put out but he is the book everybody every speaker should say we disagree with senator muskie
3:09:03Bye.
3:09:03Bye.
3:16:06What is your general thing?
3:16:07I wrote a little memorandum to Haldeman and I because the people who drew the blue summary indicated that the reaction to Hoffa thing was overwhelmingly negative.
3:16:20Well, maybe it will, it is, but I don't know.
3:16:23What do you find?
3:16:23Is it overwhelmingly negative, half negative, about...
3:16:26I'd say it wasn't about 50%, but not as much as I thought it would be.
3:16:32You're male.
3:16:42Not pretty heavy.
3:16:43Not heavy, yeah.
3:16:54You don't think, you don't think it's a big issue?
3:17:10I don't.
3:17:11No.
3:17:11No, it's, it's, and it's very little editorial work.
3:18:07You notice Humphrey was sort of a, came all out for the space shuttle.
3:18:14And which one was it, Humphrey or Muskie, that decided they wouldn't go on the busing issue?
3:18:20No, that was Humphrey.
3:18:21Yeah.
3:18:21Humphrey wouldn't come on the bus.
3:18:23He refused to say whether he would move the Hoover thing.
3:18:32Oh, the Hoover thing, yeah.
3:18:34Well, let's get Muskie on that.
3:18:38Are people going to push him on that or not?
3:18:44We've got to get Muskie, you know, out on the limb on some of these critical issues.
3:18:49Now, get a massive mailing in Florida that he's against JFU, a massive mailing in Florida that he's for busing.
3:18:58And, you know, that's the thing to do.
3:19:01And Mitchell, of course, will cooperate.
3:19:04Put the necessary funds...
3:19:06to be getting mailings to every Democrat that he is for busing, that he is against Hoover, and he's against the space shuttle.
3:19:19But on the basis that it came from him, see?
3:19:23I think, yes, I think he's got the ability to do better in both of these things.
3:19:40Oh, he's with us, I know.
3:19:50But how is he going to play this?
3:19:52Is he going to play scoop now?
3:20:01It's a matter of facing things publicly.
3:20:04that, well, I can't agree with Muskie on bussing, I can't agree with Muskie on space shuttle, right?
3:20:15Those two subjects, I think, could really kill Muskie.
3:20:16I don't see how Muskie could kill Florida.
3:20:43The main thing is to get Hubert to do well, not all of them.
3:21:15Getting very hard there.
3:21:16Well, there must be a very, very strong mailing.
3:21:30Musky, musky.
3:21:42Oh, yeah.
3:21:43What if you know Hawking, the Polish boy?
3:22:04You think Humphrey's taking the center now?
3:22:10That's good.
3:22:10The only issue is that they're all way out of Vietnam.
3:22:17Yeah, who's going to get out of Vietnam?
3:22:20What do we do about that?
3:22:38Because you think New Hampshire may be more, because of the low, it may be more toxic than you think.
3:22:53Yes.
3:23:06How'd it go?
3:23:07Right.
3:23:07Oh, they're basically patriotic.
3:23:30I don't know.
3:23:51The difficulty is we don't have anybody up there except Yardy.
3:23:52Is Yardy going to do anything?
3:23:52Well, I think he will with most of them.
3:23:53I think they'll do an excellent job.
3:23:54I don't think it's hard to get more votes than people expected.
3:23:55It's really kind of maverick to keep on going.
3:24:20If you keep musky below 50% there, it may not be possible.
3:24:26Well, that's what they call it.
3:24:28That's what they call it.
3:24:38That's what they call it.
3:24:51It's good in Pennsylvania.
3:24:52It's good in Indiana.
3:24:57It's good in Tennessee.
3:25:06It's good in Illinois.
3:25:07The main thing is to get out of Massey.
3:25:25I know about his problem.
3:26:18Right.
3:30:32Okay, anything else new?
3:30:59Yes.
3:31:17That's good, that's good.
3:31:26I don't want it to be, just stay where it is.
3:31:3921 million.
3:31:40down one point.
3:31:40That's good.
3:31:46Yeah, I know.
3:32:01Right.
3:32:21Okay.
3:32:21Well, I hope you feel better.
3:32:25Fine.
3:32:25Good.
3:32:26Bye.
3:32:26Yes, please.
3:32:30He was just removed home.
3:32:35Can I leave away at the residence for him?
3:32:41Uh-huh.
3:32:49hello i had just picked up the phone to call you yeah yeah yeah well i just wanted to know i did ryan help you he sure did i knew it would help and incidentally i've given an order next week he'd be down on wednesday and he's to try you he's to work on you and nelly too but this fellow has got a great gift you know there's no reason for us to be in traction and all the crap that people do because
3:33:14you know, if there's something, you know, organically in that spinal system that he can fix up, have him fix it up.
3:33:22I'll say this, he's really, not over 15 minutes.
3:33:26I know.
3:33:26He really took my back problem completely out of me.
3:33:30That's all there is.
3:33:31That's right.
3:33:31Now go next week because, you know, that'll...
3:33:33I'll have it checked next week.
3:33:36Yeah, it's good therapy to have it.
3:33:38And have him...
3:33:42a little treat with the belly too because that'll help her for the future you see all right i do want to meet her because she is she ever four or five months will get out for two or three days that's right well pat has the same problem and now you do that now by all means and uh that'll help fine all right
3:34:01Uh, I called you this afternoon to tell you that, uh, I talked to Bill Eberle, and the, uh, the Japanese were up to the same old thing.
3:34:06They, in effect, said they, you know, they weren't fearful of something amazing, and he had to fix it all for us.
3:34:17And, uh, they were messing around, uh, talking about two nuts.
3:34:24Oh, I see.
3:34:25What'd you say?
3:34:25Same old thing.
3:34:26I told him to call us back, and he said, well...
3:34:29If that's all they had to offer, we didn't want to offer that to get the whole thing.
3:34:39I had to upset him.
3:34:41He said, what do you want?
3:34:43He said, well, give me what we want.
3:34:45Well, he said, call me tomorrow.
3:34:47Call me tomorrow.
3:34:49Right.
3:34:49But anyway, Bill's got to go to London, and it'll be nice to meet you.
3:34:53Right.
3:34:53Right.
3:34:54Well, we'll get the Japanese to give us everything they can, and that's that.
3:34:57And that's all we can have to do.
3:34:58They just try to be patient, you know.
3:35:01Oh, boy.
3:35:02They try to hang on, but they'll give in the end.
3:35:06I think they will.
3:35:07I really do.
3:35:08And I'll be sort of disappointed if they don't.
3:35:11I'll say we will be.
3:35:12And I'll be surprised, because I really think they're going to do something.
3:35:18Right.
3:35:18That's all I'm going to say.
3:35:24Well, one other thing I want to say to you, and this may not be the time to do it, but just as a little warning, and I'm reluctant to say this, but I don't know when something will come up.
3:35:42I was sure if I were you, I'd watch Herb Stein's political side.
3:35:49Oh, I will, yeah.
3:35:51uh i've seen him do two things the last couple days that concern me yeah yeah yeah tell me what they were well one he made a speech uh april yesterday which may not be his fault in a fact saying well we're going to do control here very quickly well at a time when we're trying to keep the heat on that's right
3:36:19We also need everybody to think that, well, it's just, you know, next week and next month, we're going to delete it.
3:36:25Right.
3:36:26I agree.
3:36:27Obviously, we want to keep it cool.
3:36:29In fact, again, we don't want to talk about it.
3:36:31Yeah.
3:36:31Talking about it is the worst thing to do, but I don't think that was entirely his fault.
3:36:36I think he's got a device.
3:36:38But today, we had a meeting with Kevin to see, you know, economically.
3:36:46And, uh, I think those, uh, 30-year-olds, uh, uh, the exception, the problem with inflation, I was surprised.
3:36:56You know, it's hard to be like this, too.
3:37:00It's, uh, an opposite of labor.
3:37:02And that was, that was the way it all started out, was at a time when George Shultz and, uh, John Rumsfeld, I believe, and Pat Sandfield were pretty well-structured.
3:37:13Yeah.
3:37:14But it, uh, it's just Georgia.
3:37:17Well, basically, that's a cop-out, you know, to say, well, we're just blaming it on the labor union.
3:37:22You know, even if it's true, my God, why start a study now in your cabinet to me that we obviously don't have to talk about when we go up and testify on the Hill and get into...
3:37:41Oh boy.
3:37:44This is not the time for all that.
3:38:00That's right.
3:38:11I know.
3:38:14Yeah.
3:38:40the Council of Economic Advisers and the Office of the Cabinet, you know, ought to be on the basis of how, uh, study how we can treat the, the competitiveness of American products.
3:38:51And what you find is that the Council studies it all the time.
3:39:00Get her a word of caution.
3:39:01No harm done.
3:39:01Like you were saying, I'm not trying to cause her any trouble, but I must say, you know, I was quite surprised.
3:39:15Yeah.
3:39:15So today, everything was quite well wired.
3:39:18All of us got there.
3:39:19None of us knew what it was all about.
3:39:22We were warning it all.
3:39:24So I just raised a red flag, you know.
3:39:26You know, part of that, John, may be Arthur Burns.
3:39:28It could be.
3:39:28Sort of his line.
3:39:28Yes, yes, it could well be.
3:39:30He's trying to get off the hook on everything he does.
3:39:33That's right.
3:39:33And he's called it serious.
3:39:34And I wouldn't be surprised what it is.
3:39:37But what it is is because he's talking with him in London.
3:39:49It's not going to work.
3:40:16Well, I'll talk to him, but I'm not going to talk to him this week.
3:40:37I'm going to let him wait a week.
3:40:56What about Schultz?
3:41:09Does he agree with you?
3:41:10Oh, absolutely.
3:41:11George.
3:41:12After I got back to my office, I called him.
3:41:26No harm done.
3:41:32I don't want to make any
3:41:38Yeah, we're not going to, we must move now to keep, see that harm isn't done.
3:41:41But all I'm saying is, I think you've got inquiries for the time being, but I do think you'd have to share them with us.
3:42:01That's right.
3:42:01Oh, yes, to anticipate failure in advance.
3:42:03Right.
3:42:03And also to draw the sword in these people until it becomes necessary.
3:42:07If we do...
3:42:09I have a feeling they're going to play, John.
3:42:11I have a feeling they're going to play.
3:42:38Right, right.
3:42:43Well, I'll keep on top of it.
3:42:44And in the meantime, I think that immediately after the State of the Union, then we ought to sit down with Stein, you and I, of course, the quadriad, basically, and we've got to lay down the law.
3:43:03Don't you think so?
3:43:04It probably would be well...
3:43:21That's right.
3:43:23They all want to do things that will, whatever happens will prove that they were right later.
3:43:29That's what it is, you know.
3:43:33That's right.
3:43:33That's right.
3:43:37Yeah, I know.
3:43:37I know.
3:43:37All right.
3:43:38Okay.
3:43:39Well, anyway.
3:43:40That's all I had.
3:43:41I believe everything else.
3:43:42Did I tell you I talked to Lee Harris?
3:43:43I don't think I did.
3:43:43No.
3:43:43I talked to Lee Harris this morning, and he said that he was reflecting a greatly expanded stream of confidence in all of these demonstrations in the course of action.
3:44:10Yeah, he shows some, if we would expect, some concern about the bombing and all that sort of thing.
3:44:21That'll pass.
3:44:22That'll pass in a matter of a couple weeks, right?
3:44:28But the main point is, on the economic side, he feels good, doesn't he?
3:44:32He does?
3:44:33Good.
3:44:33Yeah.
3:44:41That's the way we've got to play it.
3:44:42We mustn't be just a bunch of damn negativists.
3:45:10If you might add to that, for those of you who've been here, boys and girls, a year to a year and a half, government service, now that doesn't have to be the military.
3:45:28Sure.
3:45:33They have to be out for 20 minutes, a year and a half.
3:45:36Find their vacations on the street.
3:45:39Sometimes they have to be.
3:45:45They have to be.
3:45:49This is fantastic.
3:45:51Among other things, we have to say, this is here an awful lot of, you know, I'm sorry.
3:45:58Oh, sure.
3:45:59Right.
3:46:00Right.
3:46:10Right.
3:46:12Right.
3:46:16Right.
3:46:19Do that.
3:46:20Do that.
3:46:22Right.
3:46:26Particularly when it's not military.
3:46:28That's right.
3:46:28You're not forcing them into military.
3:46:31They can do it in an environment.
3:46:32They can do it in state government.
3:46:33They can do it in local government.
3:46:35They can do it in federal government.
3:46:37That's right.
3:46:38Federal government service.
3:46:40They can do it in environmental fees.
3:46:46They can do it in police forces.
3:46:50That's right.
3:46:51It appeals to me.
3:46:51This just smites without causing more of an amount of harm.
3:46:56Then during that year, year and a half, it might get different.
3:47:04They don't change that much.
3:47:08Look at the APF from the last 80 years.
3:47:10Yeah.
3:47:10This way, it pales for all these sensors.
3:47:14That's right.
3:47:15You might get a lot of sensors out of it.
3:47:16Yeah, yeah.
3:47:16Do some, staff that out, will you?
3:47:17Do some thinking, because we have to do it.
3:47:18We just got talked to yesterday for two hours.
3:47:22A lot of things, thanks to that guy.
3:47:27That's right.
3:47:47And we have to, we have to slap it up in another way.
3:47:55I know, we've had $20 billion since we came in.
3:48:02That's right.
3:48:15Right, right, right, right.
3:48:18No, no, no, I'm just sitting here working anyway.
3:48:21Ha, ha, ha, ha.
3:48:22Fine.
3:48:22Well, thanks.
3:48:24Okay.
3:48:25All right.
3:48:30Bye.
3:48:33Yes, please.
3:48:34General Hughes, please.
3:48:35Thank you.
3:48:37I hadn't thought about that.
3:48:40Other than that, it wouldn't make any difference.
3:48:41But that...
3:48:54trying to get off the trolley all the way along you know from the question of finally being there and not being there and it's cancelled and back on again so the last I knew it was cancelled then I got the folder last night and there it was back in
3:49:25Yeah.
3:49:27Well, especially when you're going against the State of the Union or something like that, they think that's the last chance to get something in.
3:49:40Hello.
3:49:52Mr. President?
3:49:53This is Bob Haldeman.
3:49:54Oh, General, he is.
3:49:55Okay.
3:49:57Hello, Don.
3:49:58Bob Haldeman.
3:49:59Yeah, Bob.
3:50:00We've got the problem of choppers and getting to Camp David.
3:50:04Right.
3:50:05And understand there's no way to get up there between now and tomorrow morning.
3:50:0811 o'clock is what they're for.
3:50:10All right.
3:50:11How close can we chopper out of here?
3:50:14Is the problem here or at the camp?
3:50:16It's up at the camp right now.
3:50:17Okay.
3:50:17then then how far how close can we get to camp david can we get to thermon or something like that uh i'll have to check bob i uh i'm not in my office and i didn't check that point but i can get i can well he does need to go and he's very anxious to avoid the driving all the way if possible give me give me five minutes right call me back on this one right thank you no damn mood to talk to him yes please figler please thank you hello yes sir
3:50:45Well, how is the press handling the news today?
3:50:48Well, of course, the announcement is a lead thing, but they're moving sidebar stories on the kids and the birthday thing.
3:50:56Right.
3:50:57I mean, but as far as the announcement, that's what I was calling about.
3:50:59Are they doing it well?
3:51:00Oh, yes, sir.
3:51:01They're playing it straight.
3:51:02They're moving, of course, with your lead on the announcement of the new levels and the reduction.
3:51:08go into your remarks, and then they pick up on the Laird material.
3:51:11Yeah, the Laird material pointing out that there we expect some bombshells.
3:51:16The speculation, I mean, the spectaculars and so forth, yes.
3:51:20It's playing in basically the scenario I gave it to you earlier.
3:51:24Playing, all right.
3:51:24Yes, sir.
3:51:25In your opinion.
3:51:27We're getting pictures taken of the Soviets over there.
3:51:31Good.
3:51:32So that'll be a nice story.
3:51:34I want that out.
3:51:35They're interested in that, aren't they?
3:51:37Well, we're turning up interest.
3:51:40The vice president is doing something with the attorney general, so we're having to grab him off from that.
3:51:44But I think we'll force something out of it.
3:51:47uh it's hard to break through your announcement today you see oh i understand well just see that somebody but there are cbs's over there now oh yes we have oh yes we've got the wires there yeah it's a very well covered yes right and give it the tasks and things like that second point uh
3:52:05With regard to the kids, they're going to run a little story on that, though.
3:52:07I'm sure they will.
3:52:08The wires are already moving something.
3:52:09The press were very excited about it.
3:52:11They thought it was great.
3:52:12They got a little picture.
3:52:13Oh, sure.
3:52:14And your comments and so forth were very good reading the poetry.
3:52:17I want to be sure that the kids, the main thing is that they see their picture in the paper.
3:52:22Right.
3:52:22We're going to call the Alexandria paper just to make sure.
3:52:24All right.
3:52:25Fine.
3:52:25Okay, sir.
3:52:26Right.
3:52:26General Hughes, sir.
3:52:35Yeah, it's really bad up in Hagerstown, Frederick, and Thurmont.
3:52:41They're all down well below minimums.
3:52:45I've got a weather aircraft on the way up there now.
3:52:48There's a possibility that it may go up sufficiently to get into Thurmont at 4 o'clock.
3:52:54So what I did was I prepositioned the airplane over there.
3:52:57It's on a five-minute strip alert over in a costume.
3:53:00But
3:53:01It's just doubtful Bob and one thing we don't want to mess around with a helicopter anything that would do with the icing or anything like that You know, how close can you get if you can't get in a thermo?
3:53:11We can't get even even out of dollars.
3:53:13It's bad So, you know, we're not going to gain anything really weak Frederick is the closest one that we do that we may get get any money on Save any driving time at all Frederick and Frederick and that's and that's below minimums so that
3:53:28We just can't make any appreciable head wave of a helicopter at this time.
3:53:32I've got an airplane on its way up in that whole area to recce it now.
3:53:38But at 4, it could clear in an hour.
3:53:43At 4, what time is it?
3:53:44It's almost 3 now.
3:53:46At 4, thermon is supposed to go up at 4.
3:53:48Thermon should go up at 4.
3:53:49But don't bet on it.
3:53:53Okay.
3:53:53This stuff is just like glue.
3:53:56It's all in here.
3:53:57Okay.
3:53:57It's holding up by those mounts.
3:53:58Yeah.
3:53:59All right.
3:53:59So you're going to hold off?
3:54:01Well, let me check with the president and see.
3:54:03Yeah, but I've got an airplane that will be ready for him in five minutes.
3:54:06Okay.
3:54:07So if we can get a break, we can go now.
3:54:09Okay.
3:54:09All right?
3:54:10Yep.
3:54:10Do that.
3:54:10Bye.
3:54:15General Hughes, please.
3:54:16Thank you.
3:54:40Yeah, Bob.
3:54:42What he's going to do is set a time now and leave at that time, either by helicopter or car, depending on whether the thing is open.
3:54:50Now, the question is, is 4 or 4.30 a better time to set?
3:54:56I'd set 4.
3:54:57Because if thermon opens, it'll close back in again.
3:55:00Yeah, that's right.
3:55:01And also, that gives them a better time to start for driving, too.
3:55:04I mean, rather than
3:55:05and try to second guess it.
3:55:07I'd say 4 o'clock because that's when it's forecast to be acceptable.
3:55:10They should open and you'd know it here at 4 o'clock.
3:55:12Yes, because we could leave by chopper.
3:55:14That's right.
3:55:14We've got our helicopter up there now, you see.
3:55:16It's on its way.
3:55:18And if not, we'll go by car.
3:55:20So 4 gives you that much of a...
3:55:22Okay.
3:55:22And that's for sure?
3:55:23Yes, sir.
3:55:24Thank you, sir.
3:55:42The change in signals, the president will leave and the family should be notified at 4 o'clock.
3:55:54Leave at 4, okay.
3:55:55As planned, either by helicopter or car.
3:55:58Okay.
3:55:59Hughes says that Thurmont is scheduled to lift at 4 o'clock, so if it has, he's got a chopper up there.
3:56:05If it has, they'll leave from helicopter here and chopper to Thurmont and then drive up the hill.
3:56:11Okay.
3:56:12So they can send a Camp David car down to Thurmont.
3:56:15Okay.
3:56:17And if it's not clear at 4 o'clock at Thurmont, then they'll leave by car from here.
3:56:22Okay.
3:56:22And drive up.
3:56:23Are you still going yourself?
3:56:24No.
3:56:25But Rose and Marge are going?
3:56:28Rose and Mark's going.
3:56:29Is that right?
3:56:31Yeah.
3:56:32Right.
3:56:32Okay.
3:56:33So set them and tell them over at the house.
3:56:35Okay.
3:56:36Family.
3:56:36And then set your car up as an alternate for the chopper.
3:56:39And I've talked with Hughes.
3:56:40He knows this, so you can confirm that back to him.
3:56:42Okay.
3:56:43Thank you.
3:56:43Okay.
3:56:44Right back.
3:56:51Julie, please.
3:56:52Thank you.
3:56:57Yeah?
3:56:57Julie, sir.
3:58:16Thank you, sir.
4:00:13Yeah, I got back.
4:00:14I'm working here now.
4:00:17I gave Landry a call.
4:00:18I told him.
4:00:19I told him I said it was the best all-around performance that probably had ever been done.
4:00:25Because, you know, there was...
4:00:48Well, you were nice to call them.
4:00:53Well, okay.
4:00:54This is Haldeman Care, Secretary Connolly, please.
4:00:56Surety.
4:01:28Hello?
4:01:40Yes, sir.
4:01:41Yes, sir.
4:01:41Sir Robert?
4:01:43President wondered if you would be available to meet with him any time from 2 on this afternoon.
4:01:48Yes, sir.
4:01:49I'll be available whenever he wants to meet.
4:01:51What is your convenience, sir?
4:01:55I have nothing that I can't change.
4:01:58I have a 230, a 3, and a 330, but all of them I can change very readily.
4:02:04I can do it at 4 o'clock.
4:02:07I can do it at 3 o'clock.
4:02:09I can do it any time.
4:02:10So just at his convenience.
4:02:13Why don't we make it 4 o'clock?
4:02:14That works out better for you, doesn't it?
4:02:16Yeah, but really, these others are just internal appointments, so I can change them without any trouble.
4:02:21One of them is a courtesy call by a Yugoslavia ambassador that I've seen two or three times.
4:02:26So it really doesn't make a difference.
4:02:28Four is fine with me.
4:02:30If three is better for him, three would suit me equally as well.
4:02:32Why don't we leave it at four?
4:02:33All right.
4:02:34That works out okay here, and you don't have to joke on it.
4:02:38All right.
4:02:38That's fine.
4:02:39Okay.
4:02:39Yes, sir.
4:02:40Very good.
4:02:41Thank you.
4:02:41Thank you.
4:02:45Ray Price, please.
4:02:46Thank you, Mr. Price.
4:02:52Hello.
4:02:52Mr. Price.
4:02:54Hi, Ray.
4:02:54Mm-hmm.
4:02:55Well, any further thoughts today?
4:02:57How's... Well, I think... How did you see it in the cold light?
4:03:03Well, I think it looks pretty good.
4:03:05John Erlichman thinks it looks good, and I'll just go over to Len Garment, who thinks it looks good.
4:03:08Len hasn't left yet.
4:03:10No, he hasn't.
4:03:11He's going to Shakespeare, huh?
4:03:13Uh...
4:03:15I think they're going to take a trip.
4:03:17That's right, they were going to, yes.
4:03:19It's a great thing.
4:03:19He's going to visit those trade fairs and so forth.
4:03:24They're going to Asia.
4:03:31But they both feel all right about it, do they?
4:03:33I think so, yes, in terms of tone and approach and so forth.
4:03:36And John was very enthusiastic.
4:03:37Thank you.
4:03:39What's that?
4:03:39John Ehrlichman was very enthusiastic.
4:03:42He wanted to talk to you about the reference to the Secretary of Treasury in there.
4:03:47He thought it possibly raised a couple of questions which he wanted to take up with you first.
4:03:52Whether it might be seen as a slap at the Vice President because it was an intergovernmental thing.
4:03:58Well, that's true.
4:04:01We've got to find a way to do both then.
4:04:03You have the intergovernmental thing, but we need the...
4:04:13If you could have a reference to the Secretary of the Treasury where you talk about the tax reform, in other words, a sentence like the tax reform, and then say, I have directed the Secretary of the Treasury to initiate studies in this field, and then go to the IRA or whatever it is, and say under the chairmanship of the Vice President, is doing this and that.
4:04:36Could you do it that way?
4:04:37I could try it.
4:04:38If you could try it that way.
4:04:39I just want
4:04:41Well, any further thoughts today?
4:04:43How so?
4:04:44Well, I think... How did you see it in the cold light?
4:04:49Well, I think it looks pretty good.
4:04:50Joan Ehrlichman thinks it looks good.
4:04:51And I'll just go over to Len Garment, who thinks it looks good.
4:04:54Len hasn't left yet.
4:04:55No, he hasn't.
4:04:56He's going to Shakespeare, huh?
4:05:01I think they're going to take a trip.
4:05:03That's right, they were going to.
4:05:04It's a great thing.
4:05:05He's going to visit those...
4:05:08trade fairs and so forth.
4:05:10They have a great time.
4:05:13They're going to Asia.
4:05:17But they both feel all right about it, do they?
4:05:19I think so, yes, in terms of tone and approach and so forth.
4:05:22And John was very enthusiastic.
4:05:25What's that?
4:05:25And John Ehrlichman was very enthusiastic.
4:05:28He wanted to talk to you about the reference to the Secretary of Treasury in there.
4:05:33He thought it possibly raised a couple of questions, which he wanted to take up with you first.
4:05:38whether it might be seen as a slap at the Vice President because it was an intergovernmental thing.
4:05:44Well that's true but we've got to find a way to do both then that you have the intergovernmental thing but we need the if you could have a reference to the Secretary of the Treasury
4:06:01where you talk about the tax reform, in other words, a sentence, like the tax reform, and then say, I have directed the Secretary of the Treasury to initiate studies in this field, and then go to the IRA or whatever it is, and say under the chairmanship of the Vice President, he's doing this and that.
4:06:22Could you do it that way?
4:06:23I could try it.
4:06:24If you could try it that way.
4:06:25I just want to be very sure that we have great sensitivity there.
4:06:30I'm not so concerned about the Agnew, more on the Treasury thing, because the Treasury really has to depend upon, and the Agnew I don't.
4:06:36Well, I've got two or three other thoughts that I'll work in the night that have to do with that.
4:06:43Just a second, let me see if I can find my notes here.
4:07:04I was wondering if you might try out at that where we come toward the after giving the laundry list that something along this line welfare reform has been for the before the congress for over two and a half years revenue sharing government reorganization our programs on the environment on health on education have
4:07:30been before the Congress for a period of almost a year or something like that.
4:07:371971 was a
4:07:45for consideration, 1972 should be the year for action.
4:07:49I'm just thinking of making it a little tougher in that respect.
4:07:53Would you play with that a bit and run it by Ehrlichman to see what he thinks and by McGregor, that part, okay?
4:08:23Let's see, the other things I'll note myself.
4:08:26I'll take whatever, if you have any further things.
4:08:30Don't have a new draft.
4:08:32I have a draft that you left there today, this morning, and you have nothing to add to that at this point.
4:08:38Not, not... Well, anything that you'd like to, that you might want to add, you just send it in, and then I'll, tonight, add a couple, three little thoughts that I have, and then we'll have another one...
4:08:52drawn off tomorrow.
4:08:53Mm-hmm.
4:08:55Okay, fine.
4:08:56Sure will do.
4:08:56Fine, fine.
4:08:57Any special time you'd want this, anything set in?
4:09:00Yes.
4:09:00Yours, anything that you have, I'd like...
4:09:03I won't need it till seven.
4:09:06No, I see no reason to.
4:09:11In other words, I see no reason to type the whole thing off just to put it on a page.
4:09:14But if you have an insert, like if you've got an insert on this like this or a couple of others, you might say on this page I do this, on this page I do that, and then I'll take the whole thing and fiddle around with it and try to...
4:09:28I have a couple of thoughts that might lift a bit.
4:09:32Do you think the conclusion comes off all right now?
4:09:38I think it's a little stronger with the great Congress idea, don't you?
4:09:44I think it's a pretty good idea.
4:09:46I'm not sure whether the great Congress is the best thing to do when you're talking about a bunch of slobs like this, or when you're saying what the generations to come will say.
4:09:58Yeah.
4:09:59There might just be some different way of putting it.
4:10:02Yeah.
4:10:03Just describe it a little bit.
4:10:04Yeah.
4:10:05Fine.
4:10:05Try it.
4:10:05Fine.
4:10:06All right.
4:10:06Good.
4:10:06Good.
4:10:07Try and find some other way to put it.
4:10:09But we can always play with that right to the last.
4:10:11Mm-hmm.
4:10:12Okay.
4:10:12All right.
4:10:13Great.
4:10:19Colson, please.
4:10:20Okay, sir.
4:12:02I would have rather got the same impression when our people called him, oh, no, but that wasn't that way.
4:12:07No, it was different.
4:12:07It was different, and you'd have to watch the two to really appreciate the difference.
4:12:11You don't think it was exactly the same?
4:12:13Oh, not at all.
4:12:14No analogy at all.
4:12:15You took him in stride.
4:12:17You were very gentlemanly.
4:12:19Muskie was not.
4:12:20Muskie was obviously irritated.
4:12:21He was terribly evasive.
4:12:24He just kept bobbing and weaving on the questions, and his answers weren't good.
4:12:29I mean, you had...
4:12:30crisp, factual, very precise, nothing vague about any of your answers in the Rather thing.
4:12:37And Rather was tough on you.
4:12:39But you handled it gracefully.
4:12:40These guys were tough on Muskie.
4:12:41There have been a number of columns on the Rather thing which are quite interesting.
4:12:44And it doesn't bother me a bit.
4:12:46Most of them, the TV columns, do not take him on at all, which is all right.
4:12:51But they do say that it was one of those where both came off well.
4:12:54That's quite interesting, isn't it?
4:12:55Yes.
4:12:56That's good for our side.
4:12:57Rather people feel good about it, don't they?
4:12:59How do they feel?
4:13:00I think the CBS people were a little shaken up because... Really?
4:13:03Yes, sir.
4:13:04They never heard a word from us, but they...
4:13:08They heard a good bit from the Heartland, and I've been watching the letters to the editor column, which I think is very revealing.
4:13:14No, I think I didn't call CBS, but I wrote Cronkite on another matter.
4:13:20I guess that was it.
4:13:21Well, Cronkite wrote you about the NBC day in the life of the presidency.
4:13:24Yeah, I wrote to him.
4:13:25Extraordinary letter from him, as a matter of fact.
4:13:28Now, these are not comparable, Mr. President.
4:13:30This fellow did not show the medal.
4:13:32You think that they got some letters from the Heartland on their other show?
4:13:35Oh, I know they did.
4:13:36And...
4:13:38well we know that we know of many but what about others too uh we have reason to think so from from what they uh indicated their their mail was running was heavier than we had generated and we and we heard from people who said that they had been incensed over it mostly partisans sure what we have to realize though chuck is that generally speaking people are on the side of the in of the
4:14:01person being subjected to the Inquisition, you know.
4:14:06Yes, and he may have a point in that respect, but I don't think, I think that's right if Muskie had appeared bruised or had appeared offended or had been big about it, but he was little about it.
4:14:22And his people really personally raised hell with the other side, huh?
4:14:25Yes, sir.
4:14:26The thing about Rather's people, they could never complain that we raised hell because they didn't hear a word from us.
4:14:30Not a single word.
4:14:32Not a single word.
4:14:32You think that shook them up at CBS, huh?
4:14:34Yes, I do.
4:14:35In fact, I've had some indications that it did.
4:14:40It's hard to say.
4:14:43We really don't know what's going on inside that place, except that one of their lawyers is a good friend of mine who feeds me things, and he indicated they were disturbed by it.
4:14:50that they thought rather have gone on just a little too hard.
4:14:53There's a difference between a senator who's a presidential candidate and sitting in the Oval Office.
4:14:59The environment is totally different.
4:15:00If he submits himself to meet the press, that's the name of the game.
4:15:03That's right.
4:15:03I think the biggest deficiency... Of course, I've done meet the press at least a half dozen times, and you just have to sit there and take it, that's all.
4:15:10You never control any irritation.
4:17:18the other place that he's vulnerable as a result of this and i think this one needs exploiting is he he's running on the trust muskie theme he's running on the theme that you can believe in him you can't believe in nixon you can't believe in what the government says and this business of not disclosing his campaign finances on which he they really they just zeroed in on him and they
4:17:41Well, have we?
4:17:42I guess we have, yeah.
4:17:43Well, you haven't been a candidate raising money.
4:17:45That's correct.
4:17:46That's different.
4:17:47And from now on, of course, we will.
4:17:49We'll have Morrie do that religiously.
4:17:51But we're not being pious about it either.
4:17:54You see, he's being self-righteous, so he has established for himself a higher standard.
4:17:59Yeah, that's an amusing, interesting point.
4:18:01Well, although don't expect politicians to lie about that.
4:18:05Yeah, but this is the one thing he's supposedly got going for him.
4:18:09I see.
4:18:10He doesn't lie.
4:18:10Right.
4:18:11And if that image gets tarnished, he doesn't have anything.
4:19:24You know, I'll tell you one thing.
4:19:26I'd wish they'd have Agnew next week.
4:19:28Agnew is damn good on these programs.
4:19:30He won't go on Meet the Press.
4:19:32I've had a hell of a time with him.
4:19:33I'm trying to sell him it, but he just doesn't like NBC.
4:19:35He doesn't like CBS either.
4:19:39No, he'll do issues and answers, but he won't.
4:19:45I don't know that he's unfaithful.
4:19:46I might get him on one, though.
4:19:48He's so good, if he could get on soon.
4:19:50I think, well, of course, they'd grab him if I could.
4:19:52And they could compare him.
4:19:54You might just say, gee whiz, he's so good that he'll knock them dead.
4:19:58We have Hugh Scott on Meet the Press this Sunday.
4:20:01Maybe we can get Agnew on the week after or Face the Nation.
4:20:03Maybe I can do it.
4:20:06It's a good time for him to do that.
4:20:07He hasn't done one in quite a while.
4:20:10He's awfully good on Q&A, and he must not hide that lie under a bushel.
4:20:14His spirits are up, too.
4:20:15He's good on Q&A, and incidentally, of course, Connolly's superb, but we can't use him politically.
4:20:22But Agnew is, you know, I've never seen him do bad.
4:20:25I've never watched him, but I've never seen bad reactions to what he's done.
4:20:30He's been damned.
4:20:31He's crisp.
4:20:32He's very intelligent, smooth.
4:20:35I mean, he's got class, a lot more than Muskie.
4:20:38If anything, he's, if there's any flaw, he's a little too smooth.
4:20:42But other than that, he's, no, I agree, he's superb in a Q&A environment, and he's very, handles himself beautifully.
4:20:48That's a damn good idea.
4:20:49I think right now I could talk him into it for some reason.
4:20:53Just say that after Muskie's performance for him to go on, you think it would be a coup.
4:20:58Don't put it on me.
4:20:59Just say that a lot of people in your shop have just said that he does so well that he can kill these bastards.
4:21:06Well, he's very cooperative right now.
4:21:07He got out a good statement on Muskie yesterday.
4:21:09It didn't get...
4:21:10the play that it should have.
4:21:11Sure, it never will, but it will later.
4:21:13Well, if we keep hitting it.
4:21:15Right now, what the meteor is doing is very interesting.
4:21:18They're building up the Democratic side.
4:21:21This is their big... Building up Humphrey and Muskie.
4:21:26Well, it's fine.
4:21:27I mean, I think it's early for them, too, and I think it helps us, by contrast, Mr. President, to be
4:21:33totally non-political, all of the columns that have been written about the fact that you're not engaging in partisan activities.
4:21:39I think that's great.
4:21:40And let the other side be out there cutting each other up as they're doing.
4:21:46They're going to reply to the State of the Union on Friday.
4:21:48Yeah, that's fine.
4:21:49That's just great.
4:21:50Kind of an interesting format.
4:21:51Yeah, I know.
4:21:52Answer questions on telephone.
4:21:53That's interesting.
4:21:54With the congressional leaders.
4:21:55Yeah.
4:21:56That's a good gimmick.
4:21:57Sure.
4:21:57Well, I've done it on occasion.
4:22:00Well, I don't think you know the way it happens.
4:22:02The damn questions, they'll feed them all in, and they'll know what they are, and they'll answer them.
4:22:05That's the way it works.
4:22:07I think it's going to be a hard thing for them to draw the issues that way.
4:22:11Let me say, as far as drawing the issues is concerned, that sort of thing in the middle of the day is dead-ass.
4:22:17There's nothing.
4:22:17That's why I'm glad we're doing it in the middle of the day.
4:22:19I am, too.
4:22:20They're giving them the same time frame, which, from our standpoint, I think is just perfect.
4:29:47Fitz told me that they've been to him twice, and they've been pretty tough with him.
4:29:54First of all, he takes all the credit.
4:29:59He thinks that we made that move strictly for him.
4:30:02Oh, balls.
4:30:02Yeah, well.
4:30:03Fitz knows better than that.
4:30:05Of course, Fitz does.
4:30:06But he just says that this guy can't deal with him.
4:30:11Let him have it there.
4:30:12We're not going to be worried about that one, believe me.
4:30:14Just do the best we can.
4:30:15Well, the thing I'm trying to get Fitz to do is to get him to go after Muskie.
4:30:19He's paying no attention to Muskie.
4:30:22I went back through the Manchester Union Leader for three weeks, and hell, you can't find anything about him.
4:30:28Nothing, good or bad.
4:30:29He builds up Uarty, builds up Ashbrook, and then has a couple of editorials a week that just cut the bejesus out of us.
4:30:39And that's Loeb, of course.
4:30:41He's got a one-track mind.
4:30:44That's his being very, very helpful to us.
4:30:47All of his people, by the way, he told me...
4:30:52He had what he called honor commitments out of all of the top fellows.
4:30:55I was amazed at the list he gave me from across the country.
4:30:59And he's also helping us on the West Coast tax strike.
4:31:03I don't know whether he's going to succeed, but... Well, I hope he can.
4:31:06I see he took another union in, too, with him, which is good.
4:31:09Well, he's trying to take Bridges in.
4:31:11And he told Bridges that he would not support his strike, which really drove Bridges right to the wall, which, again, if it's did for us, he sure...
4:31:23he's a tower of strength yes sir and i think we're going to find him awfully helpful this year he's been as i say just spending his time recruiting and doing very very well some of the key areas you know that can can make a whale of a difference because those fellows infiltrate the heart of the building particularly in these key industrials i mean basically uh
4:31:46To me, it's New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Illinois.
4:31:50That's where it can help.
4:31:51Yes, exactly.
4:31:51Not so much in California.
4:31:52That's a volatile state.
4:31:54But those states, it can help enormously.
4:31:56It can be terribly important in those states.
4:32:01And he says we shouldn't write off Michigan.
4:32:05I've heard others say that.
4:32:06I don't know whether they're right or not.
4:32:09I see no evidence that Michigan is any different than it always has been, other than Fitz saying that his people, who are, of course, very strong there, and the general feeling in the other workers, which he claims is, whoa, they're having the best time they've ever had, and that they're basically conservative fellows, notwithstanding woodcut, and not to write it off.
4:32:34Right.
4:32:35Okay, you stay well, and I'm going to be busy this week.
4:32:39See you later.
4:32:41Yes, sir.
4:32:41Thank you, Mr. President.
4:32:44Yes, please.
4:32:46Mr. Sapphire, please.
4:32:47Yes, thank you, Mr. President.
4:32:52No.
4:32:53Mr. Sapphire.
4:32:54No.
4:32:54Hello, Mr. President.
4:34:08How are you coming along now?
4:34:10When will you have the first draft?
4:34:11Well, let's see.
4:34:12I would say I'm about, I'm just following your outline, and I'm about a third of the way in now.
4:34:19I can have it late tonight if you need it.
4:34:22No, no.
4:34:23No, I don't want that.
4:34:25Let us say that if you could have something tomorrow by 3 o'clock, that would be better.
4:34:31Well, I mean, is that enough time, or would you rather wait until tomorrow at 7 o'clock?
4:34:35No, 3 o'clock I should have it.
4:34:37And that'll give me something so that you don't get off on the wrong trail that I can work on and pull it into the kind of, as I have some ideas on this.
4:34:49How do you want me to work?
4:34:50Do I give this to Henry to work on?
4:34:52No, no.
4:34:53No, you...
4:34:54In this instance, you were to work totally on this draft alone.
4:34:58Right.
4:34:58You see, because this is basically my thought and bring me the first draft.
4:35:02Right.
4:35:03And just don't submit it to anybody.
4:35:04In other words, I'm not interested now at this point in substance.
4:35:08I'm interested in form.
4:35:10Right.
4:35:10You see, the difficulty is, I'm sure you could tell from the NSC draft was that
4:35:17it was fine on substance and totally lacking in form exactly and it would have been an utter utter disaster if it had been delivered that way but that's that's all right that's not their fault because they aren't paid to do that kind of work the other hand what really matters here is the form the substance will carry itself now the form is what we have to get into it and that means chiseling all of that interminable discussion about
4:35:43we're confusing people about nine points seven points eight points you know what i mean where what comes through are just a few basic points to what we have offered what they have rejected what we offered well first that we have been as i said in my outline that i think i think beginning reminding i think it's not at all it's always a good idea
4:36:09repeated as often as we can of the enormous success we've had in the withdrawal of forces in Vietnamization.
4:36:15Don't you agree?
4:36:16Yes.
4:36:16I mean, that's a lot of people.
4:36:18The sophisticates, of course, all know that.
4:36:22But the folks forget.
4:36:23They forget that 500 million, I mean, a half a million will have been withdrawn by the 1st of May, that casualties were done.
4:36:30In other words, we might even use some rather graphic charts on that to show what has happened, you know, just to show that.
4:36:36And that's right at the beginning.
4:36:37And then say, now,
4:36:38However, it's time to, rather than continuing, and we'll continue to, of course, this weekend continue, that it's time to make a major effort to bring the war to an end through negotiated settlement.
4:36:53And here's what we've been doing.
4:36:56And the fact that we've had secret negotiations for certain reasons, which I think need to be explained briefly.
4:37:04And just very, very briefly that you've
4:37:10they've taken place over a period of time you've got the lower key the basically the the constant reference references to disinjuring it you see you can see that that's overdone because that will simply irritate no need to i mean the point is i'm i'm the one that proved the whole thing and i developed the strategy and we just got to say that on this such and such a date we offered this and such a date we did this
4:37:37et cetera, et cetera.
4:37:37You see what I mean?
4:37:38I completely agree.
4:37:39Don't you see my point on that?
4:37:41And what I'm concerned with, though, is a reaction that might come that, well, obviously this means the secret talks have failed, too.
4:37:49Well, that's exactly the point that I've raised with Henry.
4:37:53I said, well, maybe we shouldn't do this.
4:37:54So he said, well, are you agreed?
4:37:56Do you think so?
4:37:57Well, the way I'm trying to treat it is that just as secret talks can sometimes break a public deadlock,
4:38:07sometimes a public disclosure can break a secret deadlock and try to offer hope that way.
4:38:17In the history of negotiations ending wars, there's always been a neat combination of secret and public talks.
4:38:24For example, the negotiations ending World War I were that way, you recall.
4:38:29There were secret negotiations going on between Colonel House and other people all that time.
4:38:34And then, of course, in World War II, as you know, there were talks long before the war was over.
4:38:39And then finally they became public and so forth.
4:38:41And so who knows what finally did it.
4:38:44but the point is that we are doing this in the thought that by this public disclosure that we will now uh and also we're offering we're going somewhat beyond our offer in other words we're moving the deadline from seven to six months i i think that in terms of the uh in terms of what we have offered and do offer it's a pretty damn good record what do you think
4:39:06It's devastating as far as, you know, everybody's saying, how come we're not here?
4:39:12Why didn't we answer the seven points?
4:39:13Why didn't we offer a deadline?
4:39:15Why didn't we offer a deadline, ceasefire, exchange for prisoners?
4:39:18Hell, we've done all that.
4:39:22It will really trap the hell out of some people who are off on a limb so far and you can just sew it off.
4:39:29And we've got to avoid any hint of gloating about that.
4:39:34No, no, no.
4:39:35That isn't our purpose.
4:39:37That isn't our purpose.
4:39:38That isn't our purpose.
4:39:39That's why I...
4:39:40I low-key this business of the fact that I think we can refer to the fact just in a just matter of fact that three months later or whatever it was the Senate passed a Congress passed a resolution asking for the very thing that we had talked for that we had offered and had been returned down on in our speaker talks I think that's worth making don't you think yes yes but no there should be absolutely no gloating there should be the purpose of this is the purpose of this is not to win a debating point
4:40:08The purpose of this is to break a deadlock.
4:40:10That's the whole thing.
4:40:12Not to make points, but to make peace.
4:40:14Yeah, which we've got to really hammer into Henry, too, so that he... Just in terms of form now, you agree that the form of the NSC draft, which is essentially each one of the meetings and going into each one of the meetings is seriatim.
4:40:34is wrong and the way to do it is to highlight the key points and just identify what meetings.
4:40:41Well, what I would, I think you could do some, you say that is you are aware of the, we are aware that on the negotiating front this is what we have done.
4:40:54We have had blank public meetings that have been publicized and some private meetings.
4:41:01But in addition to that, and as I said in my draft, or my rough notes, that I determined in fall of 1969 that we ought to pursue other channels as well.
4:41:13See, I've been, I mean, nobody has believed this.
4:41:16This is going to be pretty good.
4:41:18You've noticed that I've said on the rather and the rest, look, we have pursued a number of channels and we've offered these things and so forth.
4:41:24But then I've
4:41:25I've never been able to say what, because I had to protect the channel.
4:41:28We pursued other channels.
4:41:30And so, that is, after consultation with the Secretary of State and Ambassador Bunker and our delegation in Paris, we decided to initiate some secret discussions with the North Vietnamese.
4:41:46And then, say, they began on October the 11th, 12 meetings were held, or 11 meetings in which Dr. Kishner flew to Paris and met secretly with, you know, just briefly.
4:41:56That's good cops and robbers stuff.
4:41:58Nobody knows it.
4:42:00And then these meetings were held.
4:42:06The progress was made on, some progress was made on some of the issues, but the critical point, first critical point came in May of 1971 when we offered
4:42:28and here get it put in, Henry says it better orally that he has written it here, when we offered to give them a deadline provided they would give us a ceasefire and prisoners, POWs.
4:42:46They rejected that.
4:42:48Then in August we came back and offered a deadline of nine months.
4:42:53in return for ceasefire and POW they rejected that then in October we made another offer this time of a deadline and a ceasefire and so forth and now of course as you know we have a two-phase offer we're making we're offering now we have offered a deadline
4:43:12in exchange for POWs in the first phase, and a ceasefire and a new election in the second phase.
4:43:20So it's really built.
4:43:21The main thing I want to get across here is that on the negotiating front, we've gone the extra mile, we're doing everything we can, and that people should unite behind this offer and quit nitpicking and back it up.
4:43:33Then the other thing is that we'll put the heat on them now.
4:43:36What the hell do they have to offer?
4:43:38They constantly come back and say,
4:43:40and they always use the term that they have said in each case they reject each offer and say that their condition for any kind of a settlement is precondition is the overthrow of the government of South Vietnam never say to I mean that's another thing that the government of South Vietnam the overthrow of the government you noticed I I made several semantic things in there that we overthrow the government of South Vietnam this of course we refuse to do then but you see then then this uh
4:44:10what is really quite almost dramatic about this last thing is they offer a few to resign a month before new elections right that's that's a real snapper for the end don't you think so yeah he has offered to resign and uh it could be conducted so that there can be a new election and so forth but uh so that's sort of the field the main thing is to
4:44:34to remember that we really have, this has got to be kept at 20 minutes.
4:44:37It just can't go beyond that.
4:44:39So that's 2,500 words.
4:44:41That's outside.
4:44:43That's 125 words a minute.
4:44:45And I think 20 minutes is what it'll take.
4:44:47Don't you agree?
4:44:48Yeah.
4:44:48Henry, of course, blanched when I told him that my guidance for me was 20 minutes because he wants to sock into this thing just about every detail that ever happened.
4:44:58You know how long his draft would take, about 38 minutes.
4:45:01Yeah, and, you know, it's a nice paper, but it's not a speech.
4:45:06But I just wonder, looking past the offer at the end, you know, this is what we're doing, on Thursday it will be presented, in the peroration, is not the point of this whole thing that there are many times that a president
4:45:24cannot take the people into his confidence, and has to negotiate in secret, and has to rely on trust and faith, and has to expend some of his... That in studying the ending of wars over the years,
4:45:43you might say that i that anyone will will recognize that that has been the history that's the record that's the that's the cousin but then go ahead in other words but now i feel that maybe you want to put that at the beginning
4:45:59No, I think it would be a hell of a point to make at the end.
4:46:02But you're taking them into their confidence.
4:46:04Why?
4:46:04What do you say?
4:46:05The point I want to make, and this is not what you'd say, is that you've spent a lot of credibility in doing secretly what you had to do.
4:46:14Yeah, that's right.
4:46:15And I realize that...
4:46:18that I have had to, in order to protect the secret negotiations with the hope that they might fail, I could not reply when people, when I was under attack for failing to respond to the seven points.
4:46:30We had answered to it for failing to offer a deadline.
4:46:33We had offered a deadline.
4:46:34You see, that kind of thing.
4:46:35Is that what you meant?
4:46:36Yeah, and the fact that, you know, you're not...
4:46:39asking for sympathy on it.
4:46:40That's what presidents are paid for.
4:46:42That's right.
4:46:43That's right.
4:46:43However, but now we believe that now that we have reached this point, now as we reach the period when our withdrawal is being completed, it is time to end this war quickly, honorably, and in a way that there will be peace not only for the United States, but peace for all of Southeast Asia.
4:47:03That's a nice line, too.
4:47:05Related.
4:47:07see that's another thing you see that with the Vietnamization means peace for America ending our involvement which is of course we have it's a very fine term of art but what everybody wants what we want is peace right here is the way and therefore let's have it as a matter of fact you might work that theme and even at the beginning where you say that on the course of Vietnamization this can end our involvement in being peace to the United States however what we want our goal is to
4:47:35through negotiation is to end our involvement sooner and bring peace not only to the United States but peace to the long-suffering people.
4:47:4230, 40 million people of Southeast Asia who have been plagued by war for 25 years.
4:47:49That's not a bad thing.
4:47:52And now let's show you what we're doing.
4:47:55Do you want to call on other nations at world opinion or anything like that?
4:47:58No, no, no.
4:47:59It's such a futile and obviously
4:48:05a weak thing to do.
4:48:07You know what I mean?
4:48:09I would do it if I...
4:48:10I mean, but that's Johnsonian.
4:48:13It's not credible.
4:48:15I think we just say it out there.
4:48:16We ask for the support of the American people and of this proposal.
4:48:21We believe it's an honest proposal.
4:48:24We believe it's as far as any American would want to go.
4:48:27It will bring this war to an end, and by supporting it, by having a united front, it will hasten the day that we can have peace.
4:48:34of course the South North Vietnam and that even though they whatever their reaction is we're going to press this proposal press it uh with the and be willing to negotiate on it not on a taker something like that okay I'll get this to you by three tomorrow and then now if that uh if you would like as a matter of fact uh
4:48:58I uh three tomorrow is uh if it pushes you too too much you make it seven if you'd rather now you just tell me which because I've got things I can do I'll deliver by three tomorrow yeah I think you prefer to work rather under under a pressure cooker anyway I'd like to get it I'd like to get something by then and then maybe then maybe we can start the next draft so but
4:49:20In your first rough cut at it, remember to send it to me first, because otherwise you'll get it.
4:49:26I don't want Henry to start worrying before he has reason to worry, see.
4:49:30I'm sure he's worried already, but I'll get it to you first.
4:49:33Then you just say that you want to submit to me a rough cut to see if you're on the right track.
4:49:39Just tell him you're not ready yet.
4:49:41Okay.
4:49:41You can just tell him you haven't got anything yet, and then you can bring it back by to talk with me about it at 3 o'clock, as we say, and I'll look at it for a couple of hours tomorrow afternoon and give it back to you.
4:49:53Then you can go work up another cut and then show that to him.
4:49:56Perfect.
4:49:57And tell him that you don't expect to have a draft until late tomorrow night.
4:50:00Right.
4:50:00You better tell him that now.
4:50:01Fair enough?
4:50:02Good.
4:50:03All right.
4:50:03Bye.
4:50:08Hello.
4:50:16You having dinner?
4:50:20Almost, yeah.
4:50:24Well, I wanted to say that I was thinking that if you could get that evaluation of this Price-Buchanan memorandum, you know,
4:50:37would be helpful in terms of sort of the tone of the State of the Union, because I can't ship it perceptively, but I might want to, you see.
4:50:47And the more I think about it, I think, as I had, when I talked to Price, I had talked to Ken Davidson, and I've always had serious doubts about his theory, because I think it's based on the wrong appraisal of the stuff in the elections.
4:51:05you can put your finger right on it in other words that we came out you well remember we came out just as well at the end as at the beginning and it was only later when the media began to do us that thing as a result of our own and we gave them something to do it on we butched it up let's face it and uh but price taking the you know the usual liberal that he had opposed doing anything in the campaign anyway just figured that was the reason but uh
4:51:36What's your offhand judgment at the moment?
4:51:38I mean, it's so easy to wait, like Connolly says, but it's also very dangerous to wait.
4:51:44I think he's right.
4:51:46I think it would be dangerous not to for part of his reasons, but even more for yours.
4:51:52I've already said it wasn't for doing it.
4:51:54No, no.
4:51:56Your other reason, which I don't think that matters, because I think you can change that.
4:52:00And besides, this wouldn't be doing what you said you weren't going to do anyway.
4:52:03This doesn't have to be political at all.
4:52:05That's right.
4:52:07But the timing?
4:52:09The question of timing.
4:52:11This is only January.
4:52:12You've got 10 months to go.
4:52:15You're right.
4:52:15The point is that you've learned that you can and is so right.
4:52:21The whole quality of life crap, the revenue sharing, the welfare reform, all of it has been for nothing, hasn't it?
4:52:32Well, in any event, let me just say, yep, I'd like to see what Price's analysis.
4:52:37You sit down and talk with him about it.
4:52:39Don't let him sit and amuse about it and figure it out.
4:53:02see what he thinks also.
4:53:05And who else's judgment would be good on this?
4:53:12No, not at this point.
4:53:17That's right.
4:53:19Garment would be interesting, but you've got to hit garment hard and say, now look here, Buchanan is right about the 70 campaign and don't let your liberal things
4:53:29knock you out of the ballpark here.
4:53:31Because Len is a fighter.
4:53:36But they all have this illusion that everything that we did prior to the 1968 election was all love and kisses and roses and so forth.
4:53:48They forget that the period when we had the most trouble in 68 was when we were sort of gliding along toward the end.
4:53:55Remember?
4:53:56We weren't taking anybody on.
4:53:57He launched all your positive programs and all that.
4:54:00Yeah, everyone and everybody said, let's have the positive programs.
4:54:03He put all things out.
4:54:04They didn't mean one damn thing.
4:54:07Okay, Dick Moore is a good one.
4:54:09Anybody else you think of?
4:54:14I think that's enough.
4:54:15Colson's judgment wouldn't be good.
4:54:18I'm not sure what his would be.
4:54:20Yeah, well, it wouldn't be, but he's a tactician.
4:54:24But I think Dick Moore's would be very good.
4:54:27and uh garments i think sapphires might be what do you think yeah i think it would okay okay okay try them okay
4:57:56Would you ask Mr. Colson to come in, please?
4:58:00Yes, Mr. President.
4:58:03Just a second.
4:58:05Sapphire?
4:58:06Yes, sir.
4:58:07Mr. Sapphire.
4:58:10Yeah.
4:58:12Hello.
4:58:12Hello, sir.
4:58:13Bill, I don't know whether Rose told you this, but be sure that on this that you do not have any typing done by anybody except her.
4:58:23Definitely, that's the only thing I know.
4:58:24You understand?
4:58:25I know you do your own work, and I don't need copies and so forth, but you understand, and I don't.
4:58:30Just you, Kissinger, myself, and, of course, the typist, Rose.
4:58:35I've only used Rose so far.
4:58:37Now, I will have a draft a lot earlier than 3 if you'd like to look at it.
4:58:42Well, I'll tell you, I've got Arthur Burns coming in at 11.30, and then I've got to go at the dock strike at 12.30,
4:58:51Let me just see here.
4:58:59How about twos?
4:59:00Could you drop a two?
4:59:01That's that two.
4:59:02Okay, Bill?
4:59:03Do you want me to come by your office?
4:59:05I want to come by and just drop it off and let you read it.
4:59:07Why don't you do this?
4:59:08Drop it off.
4:59:10You know, I'll be at the EOB.
4:59:11Drop it off, and then I can read, and then I'll have you come by, say, at around 3, and we can chat about it.
4:59:18Because, you see, then I've got to get back to the State of the Union, and Ray's going to have another draft at 4, and I'm forgetting this damn thing until after the State of the Union and finish it off next Monday.
4:59:28Okay, how's it coming?
4:59:32Are you beginning to feel good about it?
4:59:33Yeah.
4:59:35Well, your direction was pretty clear.
4:59:39I mean, I followed your outline and took a crack at the ending.
4:59:44I'm sure Henry will have some ritualistic language.
4:59:46We'll see about that, but I meant the main point is more important than his ritualistic language is the direction.
4:59:54and what we really say here, you know.
4:59:56I think believability and credibility is the theme.
5:00:00It sure makes it.
5:00:01Yeah.
5:00:02Well, the point that I was going to make is that I think this idea of...
5:00:11I think one of the most powerful points is this, that here we were basically in a bomb shelter, and this is when people were asking, why didn't we respond at some point?
5:00:20Why didn't we agree for a deadline?
5:00:23Why didn't we agree for
5:00:25to exchange POWs for and so forth.
5:00:28I said I had to remain silent in order to, because the only hope of negotiations at the time that both sides were seriously negotiating secretly was to keep them secret.
5:00:40I said now, however,
5:00:43I think that's a powerful point, the fact that we took the goddamn heat when we could have blown them out of the water.
5:00:49I'm leaning very hard on that.
5:00:51Okay.
5:00:52Maybe too hard.
5:00:53Good.
5:00:54Now, whom should I leave this with, too?
5:00:56Just you come over to the EOB.
5:01:00Right.
5:01:00You were there.
5:01:01Munson will be out there.
5:01:02Manolo's not here today.
5:01:03Just give it to him, and he'll bring it in to me.
5:01:05Right.
5:01:05Subjects to talk about.
5:01:11Thank you very much.
5:01:12And I hope that both Mike and you had a little time off, Mike in Florida and you in Philadelphia.
5:01:32That's right.
5:01:33I had a hard time at home.
5:01:35I'm glad to see it.
5:01:37How about you, Mike?
5:01:38Oh, fine, Mr. President.
5:01:39Good rest.
5:01:40Do you intend to address the joint session at 1230 on Thursday next?
5:01:45Yes.
5:01:46In fact, that's Thursday after tomorrow.
5:01:50If I'm...
5:01:51unless I come down with pneumonia, I'll be there.
5:01:55So I look forward to seeing you at 1230, and I'll try not to keep you too long.
5:02:01About three hours.
5:02:02That's fair.
5:02:02Three hours.
5:02:03Is that fair enough?
5:02:04Fair enough.
5:02:05Fair enough.
5:02:05Delighted to have you come up and visit your old place in the center floor any time during the session.
5:02:11I'll tell you, I think I will do that one time.
5:02:13It occurred to me it would be a good idea, you know, just for old time's sake.
5:02:16We'll come up and...
5:02:19Maybe have a little lunch with Mike and you and the rest.
5:02:22Well, we'd love it.
5:02:23I'd be happy if you would.
5:02:24Have a little fun, you know, and forget politics for a while.
5:02:27That's right.
5:02:28In fact, I was just thinking, Mike, that you and you are the only two people I know in the Senate that aren't candidates, so I'm glad to talk to you.
5:02:36Or, Mike, are you a candidate?
5:02:37No.
5:02:38Tell me.
5:02:39Don't keep me in the dark now.
5:02:41No, no.
5:02:42You can bet on that.
5:02:43All right, Mike.
5:02:44Okay.
5:02:44Okay, Mr. President.
5:02:45All right, thank you, Mr. President.
5:02:46We look forward to seeing you.
5:02:48Yes, thank you.
5:02:49Mr. President, Congressman Boggs, Ford, and O'Neill to talk to you.
5:02:54Fine.
5:02:55There you are.
5:02:56Hello.
5:02:57Hey, Mr. President.
5:02:58Well, how are you?
5:03:00Well, we're glad you're all back in town and in good health and on such a beautiful winter day.
5:03:04Thank you, Mr. President.
5:03:05Jerry Ford right here.
5:03:06Tip O'Neill's coming in in just a minute.
5:03:08Right.
5:03:09Yes, well...
5:03:10How did you get your properly reimbursed for that wager we made?
5:03:14Oh, that's right, that's right.
5:03:17Well, I'll tell you, we'll contribute it to some good cause, like the funds, like the athletic fund of the University of Michigan so they can buy a, no, no, no, I mean compensate an adequate quarterback.
5:03:30No, their quarterback was all right.
5:03:32I thought you were coming down to the Super Bowl.
5:03:34I saw it on TV.
5:03:35It was a good thing, wasn't it?
5:03:37Boy, those Texans, they were magnificent.
5:03:40Well, I've got quite a mass of stuff we're going to do.
5:03:42I'll be down, I would like to come down Tuesday, I mean Thursday at 1230, as you know.
5:03:58I'm not going to hold you.
5:04:00Hello.
5:04:01I'm not going to.
5:04:01Hello.
5:04:02Hi.
5:04:02How are you?
5:04:04Glad to have you back.
5:04:06I was down there in New Orleans waiting for that play that you said.
5:04:09Yeah, that tell you.
5:04:10You want to work.
5:04:11The only trouble was that they didn't have enough of them.
5:04:15I'm always for the home team.
5:04:16But the Cowboys, nobody's going to beat them for two or three years.
5:04:20Well, we'll announce that, Mr. President, that you will speak to John Sessions at 1230.
5:04:23Also, I'm going to do something that's different.
5:04:25I'm going to give so that my
5:04:44message will not be as interminable length.
5:04:48We're going to give you a written message, too.
5:04:50You remember, until Woodrow Wilson, except for Jefferson, all messages, as you recall, were written.
5:04:57But this instance, I think the combination will be good.
5:05:00I think so.
5:05:00We'll give you that tomorrow and the other one on Thursday.
5:05:05Fair enough.
5:05:06Well, we look forward to seeing you.
5:05:07Yes, Jerry.
5:05:07All right.
5:05:10Okay.
5:05:11Well, we'll look forward to seeing all of you, and don't do anything until I get there, please.
5:05:16Okay?
5:05:17Well, we've got a couple of matters.
5:05:19Fair enough.
5:05:20Handling the routine, but we're looking forward to Thursday.
5:05:22You know, it's one thing I want to say to all you folks that's very surprising to me, though, and it is the House is a much bigger body than the Senate.
5:05:29You've got 435.
5:05:30They've only got 100.
5:05:32And yet they got ten times as many presidential candidates.
5:05:35Now, what's the matter for you guys, huh?
5:05:38Well, you don't want us to dredge up anymore, do you?
5:05:42No, I think you've got it out.
5:05:43Okay.
5:05:44Okay.
5:05:44All right.
5:05:45Nice to talk to you.
5:05:46Bye.
5:05:46Thank you.
5:05:46Bye, Mr. President.
5:05:50Please.
5:05:50Secretary Connolly, please.
5:05:51Thank you, sir.
5:06:07Hello.
5:06:08Secretary Connolly, sir.
5:06:10Yes, sir.
5:06:11John, just in terms, if you would handle it with Arthur Guidance, could it, with regard to that budget thing, I find that the message goes out Monday rather than Tuesday.
5:06:23Yes, sir.
5:06:24So the Sunday papers is the right-hand leak.
5:06:26On the leak, however, or the leak, the way I think it should be handled rather than
5:06:32rather than giving away the story, is to build it up by you in your own way, and to the extent that you want to have Arthur do something.
5:06:41Just simply say that
5:06:44that the strong uh that consideration is being given to this recommended by you see what i mean yes sir and then because what i what then when i the way i plan to do it is when i sign the budget message then i will state it all right so that'll give us two bites of the apple would you not agree uh and then uh and so if you and you and he could both say that
5:07:09recommended by and then you can give all the background as to why we think it's a good idea what the problems are and so forth but the president is considering it and we'll make a decision on it and announce it tomorrow at the budget message thing that's fine I'll follow through with him good and you tell him I won't call him all right sir all right thank you please yes please would you ask Mr. Sapphire to come to the EOB please yes sir
NARA Description
On January 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:42 am and 12:05 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 018-006 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
None
Also recorded on January 3, 1972
- 018-004 11:08 AM · 26 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:08 am and 11:09 am.
- 642-026 11:09 AM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:09 am to 11:15 am.
- 642-027 11:15 AM · 24 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Clark MacGregor, Jody Smith, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:15 am to 11:42 am.
- 018-005 11:20 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Jody Smith talked on the telephone from 11:20 am to 11:21 am.
- 642-029 11:42 AM · 23 min — President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, Manolo Sanchez, and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:42 am to 12:05 pm.
- 642-030 12:07 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Clarence C. Hoffman, Mrs. Clarence C. Hoffman, Charles W. Colson, John P. McGill, unknown person(s), and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:07 pm to 12:13 pm.
- 018-008 12:13 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and George E. Allen talked on the telephone from 12:13 pm to 12:15 pm.
- 642-031 12:13 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and George E. Allen met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:13 pm to 12:15 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 018-006, January 3, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/018-006 (accessed September 19, 2026).