Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 27 › Conversation 027-055

Nixon phone call with Colson on White House Staff and Herb Klein

Tuesday, July 25, 1972 · 5:23 PM–5:25 PM ET · White House Telephone · 2 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation027-055 on Tape 27StartTuesday, July 25, 1972 at 5:23 PMEndTuesday, July 25, 1972 at 5:25 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 027-055 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discussed the morale and management of the White House communications staff, specifically regarding potential meetings with Kenneth Clawson’s group. Colson explained that he excluded Clawson’s team from a recent session to keep the meeting size manageable and to avoid offending Herb Klein. They agreed that the administration should meet with staff in specialized project groups to ensure productivity while maintaining sensitive internal hierarchies and professional relations.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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Yeah.

I was wondering about, about Clawson, whether or not we shouldn't get his group in, because I don't want them to feel that they're left out.

Well, I was thinking about bringing them in today, and then I decided it would just make it really kind of too large, but they won't feel left out, Mr. President.

How many are there?

Let's see, there's Clawson, Condie, Scott, there's three, Snyder, I'm sure it's five in all, but let's see it.

Most of them take their, of course, it would have been a huge inspiration.

Well, let him come in for, do you want to get him in for a few minutes now?

I don't think I would right now, Mr. President.

Well, you can wait.

Just tell them that we're working in various groups from time to time, and then when they're in a certain project, we'll bring them in.

I think that's the way to do it.

Basically, they ought to come in with Klein, too, shouldn't they?

That's right.

That's part of the difficulty.

I run them, but... Yeah, right.

We'll have them come in then when they're...

That's a very good idea.

I hadn't thought of that, because we don't want Herb to feel we're... That's why I didn't bring them today.

My job is to make them work, but we don't want to upset Herb's feelings.

We've always walked sort of that fine line.

That was marvelous of you to do that today.

I felt terrible taking that much of your time.

That's right.

I took a lot of time with the speechwriters, and I felt that the...

they won't i won't have another chance to do this but they've got to have the feeling that they've had the word from on high well and they do they all walked out of there just floating on a cloud you know these these fellas it it really is it's heartwarming because they they all work six days a week i rarely find that i don't have molly here on saturdays they work

They're always available to me up until 7.30 or 8 when I get home.

And they're in the mornings.

They're a great, hardworking bunch of fellas.

So it was marvelous of you to do it, sir.

Okay, Chuck.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. President.

NARA Description

On July 25, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 5:23 pm to 5:25 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 027-055 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 27-55

Date: July 25, 1972
Time: 5:23 pm - 5:25 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 753-7]

     The President's schedule
          -Meeting with Kenneth W. Clawson's staff
                 -Carlos D. Conde, Stanley S. Scott, Alvin Snyder, James Schurz
                 -Herbert G. Klein
                 -Inter-staff relationship
          -July 25, 1972 meeting with Colson's staff
                 -Meeting with speechwriters
                 -Staff reaction
                 -Staff work

Also recorded on July 25, 1972

027-052 5:18 PM · 25 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 5:18 pm.
027-053 5:19 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Vito Marzullo talked on the telephone from 5:19 pm to 5:21 pm.
753-005 5:19 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Vito Marzullo met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:19 pm to 5:21 pm.
753-006 5:21 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:21 pm and 5:23 pm.
027-054 5:22 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 5:22 pm.
753-007 5:23 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:23 pm to 5:25 pm.
027-056 5:25 PM · 26 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:25 pm and 5:35 pm.
753-008 5:27 PM · 14 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Rose Mary Woods, Mrs. George E. Mock, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, Jack D. Maltester, Ronald L. Ziegler, Stephen B. Bull, Patrick J. Buchanan, Henry A. Kissinger, United States Secret Service agents, and Vice President Spiro T. Agnew met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:27 pm to 6:34 pm.

All 50 conversations from July 25, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 027-055, July 25, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/027-055 (accessed October 12, 2026).