Conversation: 033-108
Prev: 033-107 Next: 033-109Start Date: 19-Nov-1972 9:35 AM
End Date: 19-Nov-1972 9:35 AM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); White House operator; Colson, Charles W.;Recording Device: White House Telephone
NARA Description:
On November 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at 9:35 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 033-108 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 33-108
Date: November 19, 1972
Time: 9:35 am
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with the White House operator.
Call from Charles W. Colson
Call from Ronald L. Ziegler
The President talked with Colson between 9:35 am and 10:46 am.
Colson's vacation
-Warrenton, Virginia
-Reason
-Death
-1972 election
-Virginia
-Weather
Second term reorganization
-Meeting at Camp David
-President's message to Colson
-Colson, H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman
-White House Staff
-Herbert Klein
-Ziegler
-Public relations [PR]
-Administration capacity
-Office name
-Klein
-Retention
-Departure
-Timing
-Age
-Jack J. Valenti
-Klein
- 111 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Job search
-Timing
-Colson
-Job offers
-Colson’s conversations with Haldeman
-Scheme
-The President’s recent conversation with Haldeman
-Meeting with Colson
-Plans
-Departures
-Colson
-John A. Scali
-Klein
-PR
-Kissinger
-John D. Ehrlichman
-Capability
-Republican National Committee and Republican Congressional
Leaders
-Clout
-Motivation
-Colson’s conversation Haldeman
-White House access
-Max M. Fisher
-Leonard Garment
-Retention
-Bicentennial
-Donald F. Rodgers
-Peter J. Brennan
-Labor Department
-Transportation Department
-Brennan’s background
-Building trades
-Judgment
-Department of Housing and Urban Development [HUD]
-Super-cabinet
-Model cities
-Transportation Department
-Labor problems
- 112 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-International Brotherhood of Teamsters
-Regulation
-Labor Department
-Frank E. Fitzsimmon's reaction
-Transportation Department
-Teamster’s official
-Brennan
-Job offer
-Paul Hall's reaction
-Fitzsimmons
-Possible meeting with President
-George Meany
-George P. Shultz
-Review of Brennan job offer
-Brennan
-Fitzsimmons
-Colson’s influence
-John H. (“Jack”) Lyons
-Fitzsimmons
-Meany
-Neutrality in 1972 election
-Aid to President in 1972 election
-Meany
-Shultz
-1972 Democratic National Convention
-Teamsters endorsement of the President. July 17, 1972
-Meany
-Neutrality
-Conversation with Colson
-Brennan
-Appointment
-Cabinet
-John A. Volpe
-Travel
-Richard E. Kleindienst
-Travel
-James D. Hodgson
-Shultz
-Retention
- 113 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Labor Department
-J[ames] Curtis Counts
-Colson’s conversation with Roy L. Ash
-Cabinet
-Italian-Americans
-Michael P. Balzano, Jr.
-Readiness
-Scali
-Haldeman
-United Nations [UN]
-Possible black appointee
-Commerce Department
-Blacks
-Appointments
-Colson’s conversation with Haldeman
-Walter E. Washington
-Ambassadorship
-UN ambassadorship
-Scali
-Loyalty
-UN staff
-George H. W. Bush
-Interest
-Colson’s conversation with Scali
-Colson’s conversation with Haldeman
-H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman's reaction
-Discussion with President
-Haldeman
-The President
-White House staff schedule
-Washington
-Blacks
-Washington
-First term compared to second term
-Level
-Symbolism
-Americans
-Italians
-Herbert F. DeSimone
- 114 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Rhode Island
-Abilities
-Commerce Department
-Peter G. Peterson’s recommendation
-Record as Rhode Island Attorney General
-Joseph L. Tauro
-Judgeship
-Peterson
-European post
-Commerce Department opening
-Labor Department
-Shultz recommendation
-John L. Dunlop
-Harvard University
-The President’s conversation with Shultz
-Make-up
-Second term compared to 1968
-Labor Department
-Brennan
-Meany’s view
-Meany’s conversation with Shultz
-Labor problems
-Appointment of unionist
-Transportation Department
-Colson’s view
-Possible fear of reform
-Colson’s conversation with Ash
-American Federation of Labor
-Congress of Industrial Organizations [AFL-CIO] bureaucracy
-16th Street
-Reforms
-Bureau of Labor Statistics [BLS]
-Shultz
-Colson’s conversations with Ash, Haldeman
-Ash
-Recruitment
-Catholicism
-Shultz
-Catholicism
- 115 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Helena M. (“Obie”) Shultz
-Publicity
-Ash
-Brennan
-Labor Department
-Compared to Transportation Department
-State level background
-Control by bureaucracy
-Job offer
-Acceptance
-Problem
-Successorship to Meany
-Speaking ability
-Thomas W. (“Teddy”) Gleason
-Appointments
-UN ambassadorship
-Black
-Blacks
-Appointments
*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
1972 election
-Landslide
-Black vote
-Latest figures
-Percentage of votes
-New York Times
-Absentees
-Republican congressman in Washington state
-Tomas Pelly
-Turn-out
-Gordon L. Allott
-Absentee votes
-Margin
-Recount
-Richard L. Roudebush
- 116 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
Second term reorganization
-Gordon L. Alliott
-Possible appointment
-Unknown Canadian commission
-Location
-Washington, DC
-Ambassadorship
-Spanish speaking people
-Colorado
-Location
-Washington, DC
-Forthcoming election
-Jack R. Miller
-John H. Chafee
-Louie B. Nunn
-Fletcher S. Thompson
-Defeated Congressmen
-Fred Schwengel
-John H. Kyl
-Possible Assistant Secretary or Under Secretary of Agriculture
-George D. Webster
-Miller
-Previous meeting with the President
-Background
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
[National Security]
[Duration: 2s ]
[Subject: Personnel]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
*****************************************************************
- 117 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Lawyers for Nixon
-Comparison with Lloyd N. Cutler
Lawyers
-John B. Connally
-Passports
-Clark M. Clifford
-Conversation with the President
-Conversation with Colson
-Treasury Department
-Peter M. Flanigan
-Cabinet
Second term
*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
1972 election
-Colson’s conversation with Webster
-Miller
-Defeat
-Allott
-Defeat
-Peter H. Dominick
-Robert C. (“Bob”) Wilson
-Republican defeats
-The President’s recent conversation with Haldeman
-Publicity about the President’s efforts for candidates
-Photographs
-Television
-Senate
-Audio recordings
-Phone calls
-Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
-The President’s visits
-Kenneth W. Clawson
-Scali
-Patrick J. Buchanan
- 118 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Dominick attacks
-The President's visits
-Colorado
-Allott
-Support for the President
-Dominick
-Work with White House
-Work on Hill
-Colson’s view
-Wilson
-House of Representatives
-Connally’s view
-Reasons
-The President's landslide
-Balance in Congress
-Rhode Island
-The President's victory
-North Carolina
-Oklahoma
-Kentucky
-Michigan
-Busing issue
-Democratic areas
-Wilson
-Clarence J. (“Bud”) Brown, Jr.
-Victory
-Criticism of Committee to Reelect the President [CRP]
-Expenditure of funds
-Democrats
-Figures
-Percentages
-Number of votes for the President
-Number of votes for George S. McGovern
-Accuracy
-Associated Press [AP] statistics
-Inaccuracies
-McGovern Notes
-AP figure
-Colson's figures
- 119 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Sources
-Allott's margin
-Absentee ballots
-Colorado
-Washington state
-Final figure
-Certification
-Dates
-Analysis
-Report to President
-McGovern's figures
-Problems
-Accuracy
-Press reports
-Calls to states
-California
-Absentees
-AP
-Colorado
-McGovern votes
-AP figures
-States
-Secretaries of State
-Telephone calls
-Newspaper figures
-Latest figures
-Connally
-Percentage
-Impact of historic landslide
-Margin
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
Second term reorganization
-Brennan
-Fitzsimmons's reaction
-Labor department
- 120 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Transportation Department
-Labor Department
-Rodgers
-Cooperation
-Shultz
-Balzano
-Work with Democrats
-Vito Marzullo
-Republican Party
-Vote for the President
-Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO]
-Mario A. Procaccino
-Republicans
-Republican National Committee [RNC]
-Businessmen
-Commerce Department
-Jews
-Spokesmen in White House
-Garment
-Herbert Stein
-Transportation Department
-Brennan
-Ethnic appointment
-Rocco C. Siciliano
-Benjamin F. Biaggini
-Support for President in 1972 election
-Donald McI Kendall
-Robert F. Lanzillotti
-Price Commission
-Italian-Americans
-Transportation Department
-Businessmen
-Commerce Department
-Importance
-Kendall
-Recommendations
-DeSimone
-Department of Justice
-Rhode Island Attorney General
- 121 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Scali
-Significance
-Symbolism
-UN ambassadorship
-Visibility
-Remarriage
-Southerners
-Winton M. (“Red”) Blount
-Howard (“Bo”) Calloway
-Commerce Department
-Calloway Gardens
-Work with Colson
-1968 campaign
-Rogers C.B. Morton
-Performance as administrator [of Interior Department]
-Role in Cabinet
-Congress
-Retention
-Visibility
-Contacts with Republican Party
*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
Republican Party
-Contacts with the White House
-Maintenance of majority coalition
-Discontent
-The President’s support for members of Congress
-Lack of communication
-Robert J. Dole
-Retention at Republican National Committee
-Senate campaign
-Problems
-Robert B. Docking
-Role in campaign
-Spokesperson
-Anne L. Armstrong
- 122 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Chairperson appointment
-Texas, Southern background
-Abilities
-Comparison with Jean Westwood
-Democratic Party
-Infighting
-Media coverage
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
Second term reorganization
-Anne L. Armstrong
-Appointment
-Visibility
-Commerce Department
-Background
-Texas
-Ranch
-Compared to Calloway
-Advantages
-Contacts with Republican Party
-Compared to Colson’s and Roger’s contact with labor
-Interest in position
-Advantages
-Texas Republicans
-Background
-South
-Political orientation
-Personality
-Confidentiality
-Ehrlichman
-Haldeman
-Brennan
-Labor Department
-Fitzsimmon’s concurrence
-Meany
-Shultz contacts
- 123 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Building trades
-Competition
-Reforms
-Wage and Hour division
-Enforcement sections
-Philip M. Landrum-Robert P. Griffin Act
-Impact on the AFL-CIO
-Bureaucracy
-Meany
-New Deal Jewish elites
-Commerce Department
-Armstrong
-Business community
-Experience
-Ranch
-Confirmation problem
-Labor
-Mexicans
` -Armstrong’s conversation with Colson
-Roman Acosta Banuelos
-Democrats
-Banuelos
-Spanish speaking voters
-Compared to Banuelos
-Commerce Department
-South
-Armstrong
-Calloway
-Speaking ability
-Georgia
-Brennan
-Labor Department
-Impact on bureaucracy
-Reforms
-Meany opposition
-New Deal Jewish elites
-Hodgson
-Control of Labor Department
-Internal Revenue Service [IRS]
- 124 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Webster
-Knowledge of taxes
-Publication of analysis of changes in tax law
-Age
-Acceptance
-Conformation
-Colson’s recommendation
-Fredric V. Malek
-Loyalty to President
-Compared to Brennan
-Use of agency
-Attacks on enemies
-Democrats
-Johnnie M. Walters
-Background
-Tax law
-Attacks on Democrats
-Annual Seminar
-Elliot L. Richardson
-Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]
-Bureaucracy
-Defense Department
-William P. Clements, Jr.
-Work with Henry A. Kissinger
-Kissinger’s concern
-Brookings Institution
-Robert S. McNamara
-System analysis
-Laurence E. (“Larry”) Lynn, Jr. and Jonathan Moore
-Abilities
-Responsiveness
-[HEW]
-Difficulty
-Bureaucracy
-Political sensitivities
-Defense Department
-Interests
-Loyalty
-McNamara
- 125 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-John F. Collins
-Possible appointment
-Massachusetts
-Compared to Blacks in cabinet
*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
1972 election
-Figures
-Accuracy
-Republican defeats
-Publicity about the President’s efforts for candidates
-Kevin P. Phillips
-Complaints
-Use of term “Republican”
-Clark MacGregor
-Press conference
-Dole
-Future in the party
-Republican National Committee [RNC] position
-Kansas
-Problems
-Departure
-Timing
Republican Party
-Rebuilding
-State leadership
-Ronald W. Reagan
-California
-Michigan
-William G. Milliken
-Massachusetts
-Thomas J. Meskill
-New Jersey
-Nelson A. Rockefeller
-New York
- 126 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Conservatives
-Illinois
-Ohio
-William B. Saxbe, Robert A. Taft, Jr.
-Party Loyalty
-Connally theory
-Ticket splitting
-Colson’s view
-Decline
-Public attention
-Limited government
-Lyndon B. Johnson
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
Second term reorganization
-Necessity of shake-up
-Bureaucracy
-Popularity
-Ronald L. Ziegler
-Conversation with the President
-Washington, DC newspapers
-Republican concerns
-Morton
-Retention
-Administrative ability
-Armstrong
-Media and Congress
-Mobilization of public
-Size of staff in the White House
-Colson’s work
Work with the White House
-Klein
-Retention
-View
-Informing editors, keeping open administration
-Media
- 127 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
-Telephone calls to Colson
-William S. Paley
-Meeting with Colson
-Washington Post
-Partisanship charge
-Katharine L. Graham’s response
-Colson’s recent speech
-Colson’s recent speech
-Reaction
-Mail
-Los Angeles
-Los Angeles Herald-Examiner
-Colson’s replacement
-Kenneth W. Clawson
-Selection
-Colson’s role
-The President’s conversation with Haldeman
-Clawson
-Retentions
-Balzano
-Rodgers
-Clawson
-Clawson
-Role in the White House
-Information office
-Gerald L. Warren
-Clawson
-Role
-Managerial ability
-Judgment
-Contacts
-Colson
-Fitzsimmons
-Hall
-Colson’s future
-Law firm
-Possible polling organization
-Haldeman
- 128 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Control of government polls
-Release of data
-Albert E. Sindlinger
-Louis P. Harris
-George H. Gallup
-Harris
-Work with administration
-Spencer Roberts
-Los Angeles
-Name of organization
-Washington Associates
-Foundation
-Contributor
-DeWitt Wallace
-American Enterprise Institute [AEI]
-Funding
-Name change
-Funding
-Brookings Institute
-Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
-Ash
-Contacts from government
-Speakers
-State Department
-Cancellation
-Stein
-Cancellation
-Enforcement
-White House discipline
-Colson’s conversation with Haldeman
-Need for enforcement person
-Ehrlichman
-Haldeman
-Mobilization of public support
-Connally’s view
-The President’s recent conversation with Connally
-Texas
-White House capability
-1972 election
- 129 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Counterpart to Clifford
-Colson’s discussion with Connally
-Harry S. Dent’s office
-Political field
-Haldeman and Ehrlichman
-Betty Dent
-Health
-Washington, DC
-Dent’s retention
-Colson’s office
-Colson’s conversation with Haldeman
-Purpose
-Mobilization of public support
-Clawson
-Work with columnists, editors
-Political operation
-Counterattack materials
-Ehrlichman
-Public Information Officers [PIOs]
-Patrick J. Buchanan
-Retention
-Review of materials
-Clawson
-Republican Party
-Dent
-Balzano
-Rodgers
-Buchanan
-Lawrence M. Higby
-Dent’s office
-Name
-Purpose
-Outside contacts
-Work with other offices
-Switchboard function
-Departments
-Liaison functions
-Marzullo, Frank L. Rizzo
-Attacks on enemies
- 130 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-07)
Conversation No. 33-108 (cont’d)
-Size
-Clawson, Dent, Balzano, Rodgers
-Mickey Gardner
-Liaison with RNC
-Gardner
-Recruitment
-Harry Dent
-Replacement
-1972 campaign
-Meeting with the President
-Colson agenda