← 034-001034-003 →

Conversation 034-002

TapeTape 34StartWednesday, November 29, 1972 at 7:37 PMEndWednesday, November 29, 1972 at 7:49 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and H. R. Haldeman coordinated scheduling logistics for the President's upcoming trip to Florida and Pat Nixon's attendance at the Rose Parade, while discussing various personnel and administrative matters. They reviewed potential candidates for FBI leadership, specifically debating the merits of Richard B. Ogilvie over Evelle J. Younger, and strategized on managing Robert Dole and George H.W. Bush regarding political appointments. Additionally, the pair assessed the positive public reception of Peter J. Brennan's appointment as Labor Secretary and discussed concerns raised by Alexander M. Haig Jr. regarding Henry Kissinger's psychological state and need for a vacation following the conclusion of Vietnam peace negotiations.

Personnel AppointmentsFBI DirectorWhite House SchedulingHenry KissingerVietnam Negotiations
AudioNARA Description

On November 29, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:37 pm and 7:49 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 034-002 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 34-2

Date: November 29, 1972
Time: Unknown between 7:37 pm and 7:49 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

       The President’s schedule
            -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon’s schedule
                  -Rose Parade
                  -Florida trip
                         -Inaugural address
                         -Christmas
                                            -2-

                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. Dec.-07)

                                                             Conversation No. 34-2 (cont’d)

*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

                       -Rationale
                       -Relatives

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************

      The President’s schedule
           -Instruction for Haldeman
                 -California people
                        -Florida
                              -Vietnam negotiations

      Mrs. Nixon’s schedule

      Appointments
           -Robert J. Dole
                -Evelle J. Younger
                -Conversation with Haldeman
                       -John N. Mitchell
                             -Executive Committee
                       -Tone
                       -Forthcoming meeting with the President
                             -Timing
                       -George H.W. Bush meeting
                             -Tone
                -Bush meeting
                -Mitchell
                       -Conversation with Haldeman
           -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
                -Conversation with Haldeman
                       -Younger
                             -Otis Chandler
                                   -Oil [Stock scandal]
                       -[Louis] Patrick Gray, III
                                            -3-

                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. Dec.-07)

                                                              Conversation No. 34-2 (cont’d)

                        -Richard B. Ogilvie
                              -Haldeman’s view
                              -Experience honesty, loyalty
                                    -Cook County Sheriff
                                    -County executive
                                    -Illinois governor
                                    -Recent election defeat
                                    -John D. Ehrlichman
                                           -Forthcoming conversation about Charles H. Percy
                        -Younger
                              -Chandler
                              -Opportunism
                 -Ogilvie
                        -Haldeman’s Forthcoming conversation with Charles McWhorter
                        -Honesty
                        -Percy
           -Peter J. Brennan as Labor Secretary announcement, November 29, 1972
                 -Jacob K. Javits
                 -Press coverage
                        -Ronald L. Ziegler
                 -Charles W. Colson
                        -Hardhats
                              -Oval office meetings
                              -Media coverage
           -Frederic V. Malek
                 -General Services Administration [GSA]
                        -Conversation with Haldeman
                              -Nixon Foundation

      Henry A. Kissinger
           -Haldeman's talk with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                -Alleged paranoia
                -Oriana Fallaci Interview, November 2 and 4, 1972
                      -Kissinger’s recent conversation with the President
                -Haig’s call to Dr. [First name unknown] Weber [sp?]
                -Vietnam negotiations

*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
                                              -4-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                        (rev. Dec.-07)

                                                         Conversation No. 34-2 (cont’d)

[Privacy]
[Duration: 4s      ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
*****************************************************************

                        -Possible vacation
                              -Acapulco
                              -Puerto Rico
                   -Haig’s concern

       The President’s memorandum
            -Florida trip

       Colson
            -Ehrlichman

       The President’s schedule
            -Haldeman
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Yes, sir.
So you can get a show on the road.
Pat has agreed to do the Rose Bowl thing, so tell him to go ahead with that.
Great.
But we're going to go to Florida, and that's the best thing, of course.
And I'll be there writing my inaugural and doing other things.
We'll go to Florida for Christmas, and I'll stay there, and she'll fly to California to do that.
That gets me out of the relatives and all the rest, right?
Okay, sure.
Good.
Fine.
So you be sure to...
Put it on what the California people are talking about.
I'll be in Florida with, you know, state business, you know, finishing up the Vietnam negotiations.
You can give them any kind of crap you want.
We'll cover that easily.
And she'll be delighted to go, and she'll fly out and be there and come back.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Good.
Okay.
Did you get a hold of Doe?
Doe?
Well, I got a hold of Doe and covered him.
He got the point.
He was in New York and was going in right after that to talk with Mitchell.
Right.
He said not on that subject.
I think he was going to talk about this executive committee thing with John.
Right.
But you told him it was done.
It was finished.
Yep.
Yep.
Good.
And asked him to get any sound, please.
Yes.
He did.
Good.
I think he's getting a feel of this now, you know, and I think he was fighting for a position that he now knows he isn't going to get.
Yeah.
And so now he's trying to figure out how to handle it the best way.
Yeah.
But he's going to come down to see me on what stage?
I told him Wednesday, and he said he wasn't sure.
But he thought that might be a problem.
He would get back to me the end of the week instead of day.
And I said, well, if you can't make it, is he going to go see Bush too?
He's going to see Bush tomorrow morning.
Great.
Call Bush and tell him.
I told Bush to be hardline.
Tell Bush to be hardline.
It's got to be the 20th.
Okay.
Tell Bush, don't give an inch on that.
Not an inch.
Okay, well, I laid that out to him.
You told Dole that?
Oh, yeah.
What did he say?
He just said, yeah, I understand.
He didn't argue at all.
Well, be sure that, you know, Dole, the main thing about, you know, George is such a sweet guy.
He might say, well, we'll take a month or two.
We must not.
Okay.
George has got to say, because of this, I've got to get out right away, so let's do it that day.
Okay, good.
Okay.
And call John Mitchell and tell him, too.
I did.
What did Mitchell say?
He said, fine.
He's pleased.
He thinks it's a great move.
He's delighted.
All right, good.
Now, I talked with him about Evel, and he said that he feels a total disaster.
For one thing, you'd have a real problem because he's involved with Otis Chandler and that oil swindle.
That's enough.
Fine.
Who else do you suggest?
Well, you won't like his suggestion.
He doesn't want Pat Gray.
Who's he on?
Ogilvy.
Oh, shit.
Yeah.
What do you think of Ogilvy?
Well, I don't think much of him, but I'm afraid I have a biased viewpoint, maybe.
His point was he has the experience in the Bureau, plus the political experience, total honesty, would be totally your man.
Might be a good idea.
Has the function as sheriff, you know.
He was in the Bureau, then he was sheriff of Cook County.
No, maybe we're missing the button there.
And then county executive, and then governor of the state.
Yeah.
And the guy's obviously got a certain amount of... John said the only real negative on him, he said he's really basically the ideal guy for it, except that he lost that last election.
But is he loyal?
John says he is.
Mm-hmm.
Well, Chuck Verlichman is who he thinks.
Chuck who?
Verlichman.
Oh, right.
Okay.
If Verlichman thinks so, I think we ought to go with him.
because Ogilvy is a pro.
He really is a pro.
He knows law enforcement.
And he's got a broad, broad gauge view of the thing.
Sure, he's a defeated candidate, but by very little and for wrong reasons.
Well, that's right.
And he's got the rare distinction of being an honest Illinois politician, apparently.
Okay.
Makes him unique in the world.
I would take him.
Okay.
I'll talk to John.
One thing we've got to understand, though,
You've got to get the Percy thing.
Which, Ehrlichman should talk with him.
Say, you've got to understand now, you're not going to be leaning toward Percy.
Right.
Not in the Bureau.
He's got to stay out of that, you know.
Cold turkey.
Okay.
John should be the one that should talk to him.
Right.
Not you, but John.
Understand.
You're all right with me.
Okay.
So poor old devil was involved with Otis and that thing.
Oh, shit.
I knew that, but I'd forgotten it.
And John didn't have any other good ideas.
John also went on, though.
He said beyond that, he wouldn't take him anyway.
He said the guy is totally opportunistic, and you could not count on him.
And he would be concerned about that.
Ogilvy is kind of a...
is kind of a, sort of a, in his way, loyal.
Talk to Charlie McWhorter.
He knows him better than anybody else in the world.
Okay.
Hey, Charlie, what do you think?
Will he be loyal?
Will you do that?
Yes, sir.
Charlie will appreciate it, too.
Okay.
Good.
If you could call him, he'd appreciate it and say the president wants to have his confidential judgment on this.
Should Ogilvy be the head of the FBI?
Okay.
See that?
Well, he is an honest guy, really.
He's stupid, but honest.
Stupid in his political ways, but rather honest in his approach to things, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Oh.
Take a look.
Some rich person would have to support him.
Yeah.
We've got Javits in a bind on Brennan.
He's against him?
Well, he'd like to be, but he can't be.
Yeah, good, but he can't be.
Brennan, the Brennan thing, I think, is exciting as hell.
Everybody's pleased with it, aren't they?
Oh, yeah.
It's a hell of a headline.
What do you think of it?
I think it's sensational.
I really do.
Ziegler deserves credit for wanting it done separately right then, right now.
It was a good move.
He was right.
You know, it's kind of fun.
It really is.
I thoroughly enjoyed seeing Chuck triumph on that.
It really, I got to just think back on all those people that wailed and managed their teeth because you allowed those scum into your office and all that sort of stuff.
Yeah, the hardhats.
It's really kind of fun.
And he led the hardhat march, you know.
I know it.
And he's been, they're pointing that out in the news stories.
Did they give you any help for it?
No, but they think that's bad.
I think it's good.
Great.
But, you know, they're pointing it out, and I'm sure they're not doing it out of kindness to him.
All right.
Or to you.
No, that's our crowd.
Yep.
It's a good move.
It really is.
Did you talk to Malik about GSA yet?
Yeah.
He won't do it.
He feels that he should.
Fine.
Fine.
Then that's all we offer him.
No more.
That's what you agree?
Yeah.
I told him that.
Good.
And it opens that for a very, you know, we got a damn good appointment for somebody.
Yeah.
Good boy.
That's an important one for the reasons you were talking about.
But we can get a good man for that, Bob.
Yeah.
I know.
Sorry, Malik won't take it.
He's a damn fool not to.
Well, try him once again.
I told him that, and I'll let him simmer overnight, because he's disappointed, and I think he's going to, yeah, not really think of helping.
Did you talk to him about the foundation and everything?
A little, not very much.
Well, give it to him in the morning, and get him to take it if he can.
Okay.
If he can't, fine.
Okay.
Yep.
Fine.
Anything else at my talk with Haig?
And what did he say?
Well, he said he understands it completely, the problem.
And he said, in fact, he understands it.
He says in some ways it's worse than you think it is.
And he understands it better than I realize he does.
And he said the thing you've just got to face, and it's a very real and, in his view, very serious problem, is that Henry is paranoid.
And that it's to the point where the guy, he said that interview with that Italian woman was a psychological memory.
He came in and told me about the day that he did not told her that he told her things that were positive and she turned them to negatives and so forth.
And he may be right.
She may have been a left-winger that turned it all around.
I don't know.
Hague doesn't believe that.
He doesn't tell.
Hague believes that Henry was under pressure at the time.
He knows he was.
He did it just before he was leaving.
He did it in the morning.
He pulled this stuff and he said he's done it over there.
Henry, I mean, Higg is concerned enough about him that he's called that doctor.
You know, Dr. Weber or whatever his name is.
Yeah.
He says, you have got to, you've got to ride through the negotiation cycle.
And he says, he's convinced that's going to work out.
But he said, as soon as that's done, Henry has got to...
At the very least, he has got to be gotten away for a, you know, good two-week vacation or something in Acapulco or... Yeah.
Or part of Hungary or something, you know.
He says he's just... Henry goes through cycles.
Haig has always had this theory, as you know.
Yeah.
Of, you know, ups and downs.
And if he's in a down cycle, he thinks he's on his way back up now.
He says he's not as worried now as he was two weeks ago.
Right.
Okay.
That's good.
Anything else?
No.
No other good things to report.
Did you read my memorandum?
No, I've got it here.
I'll read it tonight.
We were talking about the way to Florida.
Okay.
And you and Colson and really have a good talk about these things.
Right.
Because Chuck's got to be in this deal.
We just can't do it with inside, but we've got to do it with Chuck.
Because Chuck will bring a dimension to this that
Even Ehrlichman doesn't understand.
I agree.
But he will agree to it if he hears it from Henry.
I mean, not from Henry.
From Chuck.
Right.
That's right.
I think that's absolutely right, and it would be a good thing to do.
And I'll meet with you perhaps Saturday, you know, after you've had a chance to think and talk and connive and this and that.
Okay.
Okay, good.
Good.
← 034-001034-003 →