Conversation 035-003

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Hello.

Mr. Colson, sir.

Yeah.

Hi.

It was 45 minutes, Mr. President.

Yeah.

There you are.

Now, look, you know, there is a list by as long as your arm of people, congressmen, senators, Republicans, and Democrats that want to talk to Henry.

This is Henry's brother.

That he has refused to see.

And here he sees Percy, who opposed us right up and down the line.

It is unbelievable.

Well, of course, we had McGeorge Bundy today was also on that list.

That's the basic problem with Henry, is that there are people that...

This is really it, though.

This really breaks it off.

Because Percy, I had...

Well, I suppose you could argue...

I know, I know.

He wants Percy's support on this thing.

To hell with it.

Percy... Let Percy be off on the other side.

He did... Percy did...

I mean, I'm not defending Henry on it, but Percy did make a supporting statement last week.

Last week, I know.

But he'll be on this...

on the other side this week, depending upon what happens.

That's right.

He's not with you unless he thinks his people are going to be with you.

Oh, hell no.

He's a snake.

No, this is unbelievable.

Well, I think the big problem you have with Kissinger is he's so goddamn brilliant, but he thinks he can soothe everybody.

He thinks he can be popular with Braden.

That's right.

And the puppy with John Stennis, well, this is the problem.

And therefore, he's going to end up with nobody believing him.

That's what it really comes down to.

That's what the Harris thing is beginning to show, you see.

That's the subtle twist to this.

You've got to have some enemies, and Henry can't...

play all this deal of course he's playing the wrong kind of people well that's the Harris thing does show that of course the American people are smart and a lot smarter than often we give them credit and we sure as hell found that out in the campaign you can't you can't be the romantic gay blade the cowboy you've got to be basically a square

You know what I mean?

Nobody's a square, but you've got to play your role.

That's right.

And if you're going to be the tough guy, well, anyway, you can't stay.

Anyway, it'll work out.

Don't bother him with this.

Let him take off his four days.

But God damn it, this is exactly the thing I ordered him not to do.

I said, don't see Percy.

You must not see him.

I told him three days ago.

Well, I was shocked because you had asked me to see him, and so I started to, and called.

You didn't get in.

He was busy.

You said, oh, well, we talked on the phone for 10 minutes.

Oh, that doesn't make a goddamn bit of difference.

I didn't understand that.

But it's...

Okay.

Well, anyway...

We'll work it out.

Oh, hell yes.

Anyway, the advice that you and Cross and the rest, now you tell them all just to hold their fire and just tell them to relax for a week, and things will work out, okay?

Well, they're good.

They're tough, and they're on the team.

Things are going to work out, too.

I know that.

I do, too, and every time, Mr. President, I think it's been the hallmark of

of your first four years, every time you've had to, you've been tough, and the people respect you for it.

I really think in the final analysis...

When you're tough, they go down for a while, but then when it works, they say, by God, he was right.

That's right.

And that's what we always do.

We do not ever give ground.

And by God, we're going to bomb these bastards until we get those prisoners.

Frankly, that's why you're at 60% approval with Harris today.

which is stronger, a hell of a lot stronger than in the beginning of the second year when that should be still part of the honeymoon.

I think the fact is that you earn the respect of the American people by being tough.

This is another one of those times when, of course, as a matter of fact, we probably ought to be 90 and be with the election result.

But that was, of course, a divisive election.

Yeah, and I think it's, well, on Harris' scale, I don't think you, I mean, 60 is very high.

I know.

Oh, hell yeah.

I don't think anybody ever gets above that on his.

Sure.

So the people are with us now.

They're with you.

Well, it's up and down.

It's up and down.

On this thing, this is a very touchy one.

I think Billy Graham is right.

A lot of people say, why the hell are we bombing?

And there's no end in this and that.

But on the other hand, what?

The unsophisticated people don't know is that, good God, we wouldn't be doing it unless we were seeking an end.

Yeah, there has to be a reason.

All these people that call it, tell you the obvious.

It's really quite amusing, isn't it?

Yeah, it is.

And, well, of course, that's what our detractors like to play on.

You know, that's where Time and Newsweek are angry, petulant reaction.

They're trying to make it appear that this was just a, you know, they won't play ball with us, so we'll kick them in the teeth kind of thing.

And let me tell you, they're going to look awful bad.

And the one thing that I...

I think we have fallen down on was the thing I wrote a long memorandum to you and Buchanan on.

We haven't really given the press the needle enough with regard to everything they would like to forget.

Did that ever get out?

Yeah, I hope we have that out.

I hope that is now out.

That was the thing.

Including Time and Newsweek and everybody else.

Jesus Christ, it's a hell of a record.

Well, we stuck it to them on the specter of defeat.

I don't think they'll ever get over that one.

But they've been hit on, but you hit them on it, and I had a problem this, I've hit them on it, and they've been hit very hard on that, and the things they'd like to forget during the campaign.

That's right, the things in the campaign, you know, with regard to he's gaining and all that, just, you know.

You were saying something else.

Well, that's the thing that Accuracy and Meteor, we first, we had Keogh all signed up to do that, and then, of course, we brought him in, so we couldn't, but Accuracy and Meteor is putting that one out this week.

We just, we get them out, and the

They have an impact on circulation.

I mean, the mailing technique for a select audience, like broadcasters and... You think it does reach them, huh?

Oh, I don't...

There's no doubt about that, because I get people telling me about it, you know, and... That's good.

The legend of St. George McGovern that Buchanan did, that was mailed out.

Oh, that thing was...

Wasn't that a superb job?

We mailed out 16.

He starts with that quote from Harriet Van Horn.

Oh, it's beautiful.

And then goes on.

It is a brilliant hatchet job.

Brilliant.

And that's why they squealed.

Sure.

They squealed beyond belief.

But, you know, I read it.

It's a very objective piece.

Sure.

It's written with a certain bite to it, but it's objective as hell.

But that must send the Georgetown crowd right up the wall, huh?

I bet it's topic number one out there.

Oh, boy, I'll say.

No, that's had a hell of a reaction.

People say the thing on the press, you must keep up the tack on the media, that they did actually step out on this thing, and these are things that they would like to forget.

This is the thing that is very important that we get across.

And if that is not followed up on, it will be forgotten very, very soon.

And follow up every month and keep reminding them of it.

Have a new way to get the same story back in, Chuck.

It's got to be done.

I'll count on you to do this because I know it will not be done with this staff because Price and the rest of these don't agree with this.

But I totally favor this.

You've got to keep...

destroying their credibility.

Well, do you agree?

Oh, I totally agree.

I think that we struck a good blow this week, I must say, with the Whitehead thing.

That has them just up the walls.

They don't know how to handle it.

They're screaming about newsmen going to jail for refusing to divulge their sources.

Christ, if there was ever a double standard, my God.

I mean, they want to steal the Pentagon Papers and publish them and reserve the copyright, but then a newsman doesn't disclose his source in a criminal case.

They think he has a right not to do it.

That's incredible, double standard.

But, no, absolutely.

I want their record, their record on the last four years.

They were wrong on Cambodia.

They were wrong on May 8th.

They were wrong on

on the economy.

They were wrong on their predictions with regard to the election.

I mean, I don't think Buchanan has done an adequate job of going through and picking up the predictions that these people made.

They said, Nixon is finished.

Anybody can beat him, and so forth.

I mean, I ordered this.

Did anybody really go through and pick this out, or what?

Oh, yes.

No, that was done, Mr. President.

The piece that Buchanan wrote on the things they'd like to forget, it was not over the four years.

No, it was just this year.

But it was...

damn effective piece, and that's the thing we're putting out as an AIM newsletter.

That may already be out because I, last Monday, put that in the works.

Well, I put that out in AIM and everything else because that's the kind of thing that will really... You see, I'm not really referring to the effect on people.

I'm more referring to the effect on the people that write.

That kills them.

You know, they read all this stuff, and all of a sudden they begin to worry a little, and they start to get a little bit more honest.

Don't you think so?

That's what really happened with Agnew.

That's right.

Agnew, with all the things, sure, he affected a lot of people who already thought the press was lying, but when Agnew took them on, it made the press a little, you know...

Well, I went out three evenings this past week.

Now, I don't go to Tom Braden's house, but I do mix with opinion leaders.

Right.

Maybe Fitzsimmons.

I'd rather go to Fitzsimmons' house than Braden's.

But I must say, it's been a very interesting thing.

Not a single, I think I mentioned this to you, not a single person has asked me about the bombing.

Yes, one person asked me about the bombing, and that's a guy who's in the administration.

He's concerned only because, well, he's looking at it purely politically.

Sure.

Well, he's right.

His son was in Vietnam twice, so he's not a dove.

That's right.

But not another person raised it with me.

On the other hand, in the three nights that I have been out this last week, on the other hand,

I, oh, I'd say 20 people have come up to me and said, God, it's good you're zapping the media with that, just applauding that Whitehead speech.

Those dirty bastards.

The Whitehead speech?

Yes, sir.

Really?

That's had, of course, enormous reaction in this town and in New York.

I don't know about it.

Is that right?

You know, you couldn't tell it from Miami, but because it really, really got to them, didn't it?

Oh, Jesus.

And, of course, the news magazines this week have played it very, very big.

They've just...

kicking the hell out of this for it, naturally, which you'd expect.

I mean, they take the side of the networks.

Well, they're all in the business.

Sure.

Time has its own radio and TV stations.

What do they want us to do?

Let them...

They don't want the local stations to have anything to say.

Leave it all to the networks.

Is that it?

That's right.

No, there's a whole page in Newsweek, Mr. Nixon Jawbones the Meteor.

It's had a very...

strong effect on them and it but but the point is it's at a good public effect at least in what i would call our constituency they're just they cheer at it you know they just say that's that's great and and a lot more questions about that over the past week than over the bombing and the only comments i did have two people on the bombing say why don't we go in there and

clean them up.

That was a local union leader.

But the... No, I think...

But the Whitehead thing, just keep them worried on that.

Well, that really... And, of course, we've got other things down the line.

Cable television is something I've tried... Oh, boy, let's...

I think we should go all out on that.

Well, I... That would make the network so honest.

Yes, and it's so defensible.

I mean, they can't... How the hell can they charge repression?

What they're really doing when they

fight cable TV as they're fighting new technology.

That's right.

This will really do them in.

And they need to be done in because, except for Howard Smith, there's not a good one on the whole goddamn free network.

Not one.

Not one that you can defend.

Right?

There isn't.

It's a tragedy.

I can't name one.

It's a tragedy.

Reasoner's bad.

The whole damn bunch.

Chancellor's bad.

Cronkite's bad.

Brather's bad.

Oh, Jesus.

It's awful.

Severide, Daniel Shore.

Oh.

terrible pure point the whole lineup is that's just let's go for cable television well i think i think the folks want it oh absolutely well where they have it they love it of course because they get all kinds of local services and you you uh well eventually it's going to get better television reception to begin with which when they're watching the super bowl which they really care about they get a better picture so they like it better but it's no it's going to come and i've

I've got a meeting with Whitehead this week to go through with him some of the things over the next year.

I'll be outside where I can do some things without getting the White House involved.

That's all right.

We'll do them, too.

We'll make some progress.

Whitehead, I have in mind for a top position.

He's been really gutsy.

Yeah, he has.

And as I told Bob, I'd like one day to just bring him in.

You'll bring him in any day.

Let him talk with you a few minutes because he has stood up for us.

Well, then the balance of this week, have everybody say nothing.

Have everybody stay firm.

And good God, tell Henry not to talk to anybody when he's in Palm Springs.

He may talk to the wrong columnist, you know.

Well, he's tough to control.

But everybody's, our dauber is up, Mr. President.

We'll stand right tall.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.