On January 20, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 1:04 am to 1:46 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 036-018 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Hello.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Well, how'd you like the evening?
Well, I enjoyed it.
We had the...
Which one did you go to?
We were at the American music concert, and...
But you didn't do the symphony.
I did not do the symphony, no, sir.
We had the... That was really...
The American was great, but the symphony just...
They had some magnificent things there that... Just, you know, patriotic and the rest.
The 1812 Tchaikovsky...
overture and other things that I'd ask more harmony to do, and a Grieg that Van Cliburn did.
Being somewhat of a student of music, I played Grieg when I was a sophomore in high school.
Well, I was quite advanced in music at an early age.
But anyway, it was fantastic.
Well, I wanted the symphony, and my wife wanted the American music, so we compromised and went to the American music.
That's the normal.
It was good, though, wasn't it?
Bob was not up to par, I didn't think.
Bob was a little uncharmed.
Yeah, he was a little off tonight.
But how was Roger Williams?
Roger Williams was spectacular in the beginning.
Well, that helped.
And Vicki Carr was good, but she was a little long.
She went too long.
That little group, I'd never heard of them before, that came out at the end with the kids.
They did some numbers at the beginning that were really great.
They came booming out.
I'd heard of them at the youth concert.
They were good with the Star Spangled Banner, and it was a good opening.
That's right.
You would have seen that same...
But it was nice.
But don't you think the idea of having three concerts was great?
Sticking it to Washington, having Armody, the great symphony, rather than that goddamn Washington symphony, even with Durati, who's a great composer.
That's right.
You don't have them.
And God, Armody was fantastic.
You know, about a dozen of his people asked to be relieved because of the bombing and the rest of it.
He said, hell no, we'll throw you out of the symphony.
And he said that if the president decides to come back, I hope he does, I would want him to put his arm around me in front of these goddamn left-wingers.
Is that what Armadillo said?
Oh, that's right.
That's marvelous.
That is marvelous.
Boy, I'm going to have him at the White House.
Oh, boy, yes.
Oh, he's a great, that is a, he's a marvelous man, marvelous musician.
But it was a good evening, as the president does.
And so much better than 69 and 52 and 56, and we just went over to Constitution Hall and heard the Washington Symphony go through a rather routine.
I mean, they aren't that bad.
With the Roddy, they're better than ordinary.
But who the hell is equal to Harmony?
Do you know anybody?
No, no one.
Nobody could have played...
But you weren't there.
No.
Clyburn did the Grieg routine, and some of Grieg is bad, but this is the best.
And he played for a half hour, and by God, you'd never know that the symphony was there.
They were so good, the way he fitted in.
The sound of harmony, God damn, it was great.
I didn't realize that.
And everybody got, he got a standing ovation.
They finished with the 1812 overture, you know, with the Los Angeles chorus of 200 and the Valley Forge military band, and it brought the audience to its feet.
It was fantastic.
Well, we missed our bet on that one because I would have enjoyed that.
We had our crowd of Fitzsimmons and the VFW people.
And so I thought we should keep Brennan.
What is your point of bringing people up tomorrow?
I'm perfectly willing.
I don't know whether it will work.
You see, I've got to stop every two minutes to put my hand on my heart as a flag goes by, and I just don't know.
What do you think?
I think a little bit of it is good, Mr. President.
Well, you picked people to bring up.
All right.
And, you know, bring up people, and I don't want any rallies.
I'll see them or anything.
And not just new majority, but you can bring up new majority.
A few people who have been particularly helpful.
I don't know whether Rizzo is going to be there, but I thought...
I wonder what the hell happened to him.
I don't know.
Is he sick or angry?
No, he's not angry.
Hell no.
He's been very friendly with us.
I think he's coppering his bets on running next time for governor.
I see.
He's just kind of playing it very carefully.
Trying back.
We can't let this to happen, though.
No, no.
No, he's one that I very much want to keep in the fold.
We haven't lost anybody yet.
You know, it's interesting.
Not a single soul that has...
They're all here.
My God, the labor reception Brennan had today with several hundred people up there.
My wife and Julie and Tricia went to the ethnic thing at the...
park ring gallery, they said it was the best damn thing that we've had.
Were you there?
No, sir.
I didn't go.
They tell me it was fantastic.
They said they were so warm.
And these youth kids that we went to, god damn, they were good.
You know, all these few assholes will say they want to demonstrate against the war.
Most of the kids are all for us.
Sure they are.
Oh, hell yes.
My kids were there, and I said that was a great crowd.
Those kids were marvelous.
The Heritage thing was terrific.
We've had a couple of labor events.
George Meany threw a party.
This has to be the only time in history that the labor unions have thrown a party for a Republican inaugural, but Meany had one hell of a turnout with the AFL people for Brennan.
The thing to do is to bring...
Brennan up, not the other cabinet officers.
I don't need to do that.
I'd bring Fitzsimmons up.
That's very important.
And Paul Hall and Meany.
That'd be good, you know.
I think those would be the only labor ones that I would recommend.
There are a few.
I know that we were putting a good list together in the office of people that might be, not just the majority, but others who will be in the area and will...
We won't do too much of it, but I think a little bit of it would be a nice touch, a little bit of it is good on television, frankly.
People coming by, these will be ones that will come out afterwards and talk, of course.
But you shouldn't be bothered with too much of that.
You want to see the parade.
I don't get scared about the parade one iota.
You know that.
All I have to do is to be sure I'm not talking to somebody when the flag goes by.
But if we can get people up there and get them in the pictures, good God, use it.
That two and a half hours might be worth really mining a hell of a lot of gold.
Yeah, I think with some of these people that would be, this fellow,
car of the VFW from New Orleans.
A hell of a man.
He really is something.
You just bring him up for one minute and say, stand here with me while we review this group.
Then he leaves.
Would you stand with me while we review this group?
Then he leaves.
Don't bring his wife, though.
You understand?
Can you do that?
Oh, sure.
Bring them without their wife?
Oh, sure.
You just say, the president wants you to come up to review the next man.
Right.
No, that's, yeah, someone like the veterans leaders, that would be a hell of a good thing because they get a big throw of this fellow Carr from New Orleans who just made a night of Mulder in the Catholic Church, Democrat, wants to switch over.
That's, you know, very attractive.
We're really, I believe that new majority is there, Mr. President.
I really do.
I got your interesting remarks about Crosby Noising.
He wrote a, you know, he's a real friend and he's real concerned, but I guess really he is representing a point of view that we may have to lose one day.
What do you think?
Oh, I think we do.
I think we're losing.
And I'm not so sure he represents that point of view so much as he is affected by that point of view because he lives in this goddamn town.
I think it's the insidious atmosphere of...
of Washington that works on a fellow like that, although I must say that the Noyes, that family, you know, maybe has gotten just a little bit inbred.
Well, Crosby's pretty good.
Crosby's good, but this was
Was this Crosby or was this...
Yes, Newbold.
Newbold, yeah.
No, Crosby, I don't know.
He's on... Yeah, and Newby has always been rather soft on him, but he's a very decent, wonderful guy.
Kind, warm, decent man, but you can do something in his face that isn't strong.
And I just think he's been affected by the atmosphere in this town.
I'm convinced of what the mood in my country is.
I'm convinced from talking to Scammon.
I noticed... What did Scammon say?
Well, he just thinks we're absolutely on the right course, that people are fed up with a lot of government, that they don't want a charismatic, exciting call to higher purpose.
They want to have someone who will commence...
He hasn't gone up the wall in the bombing.
Oh, no.
Of course, if anybody puts his damn headscrew on tight...
Whatever people thought of the bombing last week, which is a result of a media thing, good God, with this development now, you know, if they can, and that's why you mustn't say it too soon until we sign the agreement.
And we still got the problem that son of a bitch Q will get the word in tomorrow, but he'll go.
He'll go before committing suicide.
But put yourself in the position of the opposition.
How in the hell do you think we got it?
When Henry, after ten days, you remember the cables?
Oh, yes.
He gave up.
We would have been in the war for three or four more months.
That's right.
And hundreds of Americans have been killed.
What do they want?
That's right.
Exactly.
No, I think the war is human prison.
I think it's going to take a big bounce when it really is locked up and people know it's locked up and they get a, you know, it's going to take two, they're going to be from Missouri.
They're going to take two or three days to say, show me.
But then it's going to turn on the critics.
I think they're going to have one very tough time for a few months.
I really do.
Hugh Scott took a whack at him yesterday.
He was on television last night.
For a change.
Good God, his first statement was terrible.
Yeah, he was horrible.
But he said the critics cut off threats at length of the Vietnam War.
He said at length of the war it was ill-advised.
The only thing the cops said, peace is the possibility, and always misled by the critics.
It's starting.
All that reflects is Hugh Scott, who smells the political winds.
He knows that we've got an issue now that...
that he's been on the right side of.
No, I think you're going to find it a very...
But listen, Chuck, as I told Holloman, your job is to see that by God we put it to him.
I mean, assuming it works out.
It's going to work out one way or the other.
If two doesn't go, that isn't too bad either.
No, it isn't.
We go ahead and make our deal, and we sink two, and everybody says, thank God he was a tough son of a bitch on both sides, the hell of him.
That's right.
Well, we accomplished our objectives.
We gave the people in South Vietnam an opportunity, and if two wants to hang themselves, that's his business.
No, I think if we get our prisoners back, then you have a ceasefire.
But if we do more than that, get the prisoners back, a ceasefire, and, you know...
The survival of the two governments.
Peace with honor when they would have brought a bug out, and then we just pour it right to them.
No, we really can't, Mr. President.
I think at that point, we really will.
We're beginning to hurt them.
You know, it's an interesting thing.
A couple of days before people started coming into town, the Washington Post said the black mood in Washington, and yeah, it was black mood because, for Christ's sakes, we're driving them right out of the city.
And they know it.
But then you get these people in from out of town, and my God, they're upbeat, and they're... Look at the applause when we came into that music center.
Oh, God, I should say.
And the youth center, they cheered.
Mike Kerb got up there and said that when they sang a certain song about...
You know, a song brings people together and something.
He said, President Nixon has done more for peace than any president in our history.
Shit, they all took the roof off.
That's right.
That's right.
Oh, there was a great feeling of enthusiasm there.
Tonight and last night, I went to the vice president's reception, which was a madhouse.
It wasn't worth doing, but I had too many friends or too many...
I've had all my contingents from out of town, so...
been on my merry-go-round but the feeling is very good the mood is is very what you do you get together with steve bow and uh we've got a list of you know some cap now don't bring cabinet people up except for brennan he's the only one because he did god damn the way he murdered those bastards in that uh hearing unbelievable but i didn't have any impression i wonder if singlinger got any of that or
I didn't ask, but it was on TV last night.
Of course, no one who wasn't there, I guess, could appreciate it.
I talked to several people who were there.
What did they say?
Well, they said he just took them over.
This fellow, you know, is a rough-talking Conley.
He charmed that whole bloody committee, including Hughes, who was determined, apparently, to block him.
What did Hughes say?
Oh, you know, Hughes has been trying to hold everybody up.
And Brennan just said, no, look, Senator, if you want to fight, I'll fight you anytime, anyplace, anywhere you want to.
You choose the ground.
He was apparently just backing...
When he said, with the trouble of the Eisenhower's government, they were snobs.
Yeah, well, that's right.
He was talking about Durkin.
Durkin, he said, well, that was different.
He said, Durkin didn't know President Eisenhower.
I know President Nixon, and I trust him, and I'm with him, and he's with me.
And plus the fact, the trouble with that cabinet, they were all snobs, and this cabinet isn't.
No, he gifted fellas.
Then, of course, he read from Bobby Kennedy's...
statements about when teddy kennedy was hitting him on the blacks you know he started reading from bobby kennedy's statements about the minority hiring in new york and referred bobby kennedy happened to refer to brennan because i just i just backed teddy down and apparently several of them went out of the room just laughing because he had him charmed and jokes and uh
one of them for three hours so we need oh god i talked to a couple of newsmen at one of these receptions they said this guy those two came up to me and said you you found a genius they said this guy is a master he's just he's a pro he's just
A breath of fresh air.
It's like opening the windows when he walks in.
Oh, no, I think we have a real star in that fellow if we keep him programmed right.
And frankly, he's going to give us that kind of color.
Which we need.
He's our Ickes.
Yeah.
Oh, that's right.
And you want to go out and cut a fellow up, you just tell Pete what you want.
He's tough.
He's very, very tough.
And loyal?
My God, is he loyal.
Yeah.
You want to hear a little bit of the acceptance speech?
Yeah, I'd love to, sir.
It's, well, stuff in the world is good.
I mean, it's very strong and so forth and so on about saying it's time for other people to take care of their own lives.
I say the time has passed when America will make every other nation's conflict our own or make other nations' future our responsibility or presume to tell the people of other nations how to manage their own affairs.
Just as we respect the right of each nation to determine its own future, we also recognize the responsibility of each nation to secure its own future.
Just as America's role is indispensable in preserving the world's peace, so is each nation's role indispensable
in preserving its own peace.
Get the point?
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
But the key point is... That's a little message to people right at the moment, isn't it?
But the thing as we relate it to the domestic policies, and this I think you're going to like, just as the policy
Just as building a structure of peace abroad is required turning away from old policies that failed, so building a new era of progress at home requires turning away from old policies that have failed.
Abroad, the shift from old policies to new has been not a retreat from our responsibilities, but a better way to peace.
At home, the shift from old policies to new will not be a retreat from our responsibilities, but a better way to progress.
That's the answer to Noé's question.
Abroad and at home, the key to those new policies lies in placing and the division of responsibility.
We have lived too long with the consequences of attempting to gather all power and responsibility to Washington.
Abroad and at home, the time has come to turn away from the condescending policies of paternalism that Washington knows best.
A person can be expected to act responsibly only if he has responsibility.
This is human nature.
So let us encourage individuals at home and in nations abroad to do more for themselves and decide more for themselves.
Let us locate more responsibility in more places.
And this is the key line.
Let us measure what we will do for others by what they will do for themselves.
Beautiful.
That is why I offer no promise of a purely governmental solution for every problem.
We have lived too long with that false promise.
And trusting too much to government, we have asked of it more than it could deliver.
This leads only to inflated expectations, to reduced individual effort, and to a disappointment and frustration that erode confidence both in what government can do and what people can do.
Listen to this.
Government must learn to take less from people so people can do more for themselves.
Oh, magnificent.
Let each of us remember that America was built not by government but by people, not by welfare but by work, not by shirking responsibility but seeking responsibility.
In our own lives, let each of us ask, not just what will government do for me, but what can I do for myself?
And the challenges we face together, let each of us ask, not just how can government help, but how can I help?
Magnificent.
Just magnificent, Mr. President.
That is the Nixon legacy in my humble judgment, because what you're really saying is you believe in self-reliance, self-reliance of nations around the world, self-reliance of people.
Yeah.
and encourage that.
I mean, that's where I thought Newby Noyes was off base, because he was saying that we didn't care about it.
Listen to this.
Above all else, the time has come for all Americans to renew our faith in ourselves.
In recent years, that faith has been challenged.
Our children have been taught to be ashamed of their country, ashamed of their parents, ashamed of America's record at home and its role in the world.
At every turn, we have been beset by those who find everything wrong with America and very little right with it.
But I am confident that theirs will not be the judgment of history on these remarkable times in which we are privileged to live.
America's record in this century has been unparalleled in the world's history for its responsibility, for its generosity, for its creativity, and for its progress.
Let us be proud that our system has provided more freedom and more abundance more widely shared than any other in the history of man.
Let us be proud that in each of the four wars in which we have been engaged, including the one we are now bringing to an end, we have fought not for selfish advantage but to help others resist aggression.
Let us be proud that by our bold new initiatives and by our steadfastness for peace with honor, we have made a breakthrough toward creating in the world what the world has not had before, a structure of peace that can last, not merely for our time but through the generations.
It's beautiful the way you intertwine the foreign and the domestic.
That's a marvelous way to relate them.
We're criticized often because we don't seem to have enough domestic initiatives, but when you draw that parallel, the way you've just drawn it, Mr. President, between applying the Nixon principle, the Nixon Doctrine,
at home.
We will help those that help themselves.
Exactly.
And that's the Nixon doctrine abroad.
And it's a very fundamental difference from the philosophy of the 60s when it was the government can do everything.
It basically is the philosophy, too, I think, of the new majority, isn't it?
Oh, absolutely.
Oh, my God.
Absolutely.
That's where I think Newby is wrong, but I don't know.
Well, that's where Newby is wrong and where Scammon is right because, my God, you can show that voting pattern.
And, of course, his theory is that
If we play it right, Scammon's simple thesis is that if there's no economic setback in the next four years, you're building a dynasty that will last because the coalition of forces, just the numbers are very heavily... What about Sindlinger's views?
Any change there?
No, sir.
He's very strong.
He thinks you're going to be a great national hero when Vietnam is settled and the people's expectations on the economy... Well, at first, we all know that
this whole you know almost hysteria about the bombing has been a media created goddamn thing totally but when you come down to it the bombing is over we're going back to the table and we're going to have an agreement and that's certainly coming through isn't it well that's the bottom line but the most important bottom line yes it is coming through the most important aspect of all this mr president i know how i know personally how terribly difficult it has been on you the last few months but
Well, but it's been difficult for me because some of our own people, you know, have been so damn worried.
I know.
I mean, not because they're weak, but because they're worried about, you know, they want us to do well.
But notwithstanding, I mean, the terrible strain that has been on you, it nonetheless is now your piece.
And you took another gamble and had to make a very tough judgment.
You had to make it.
even though that talk about Kissinger not maybe agreeing maybe that's a bit this was this was the president again as he had to do in May making that tough decision and winning as a result you see that's kind of that's going to make the victory all the sweeter that we had to go through that added a couple of months tough as it was it in the end will have been a benefit that we did
it will also in the end be a benefit no matter what happens in the future in South Vietnam.
What did you get from Harris?
Is he pretty bearish?
Well, on the polling question, on the bombing question alone, if you ask it in the abstract, I was astonished to find that it was only...
50 to 37, I think, opposed the bombing, which is an amazing phenomenon.
Well, that's what I would expect.
That's about what Sendlinger had.
Oh, not quite that bad, but he had it about even.
Yeah, he had it about 40, 35.
That's right.
But then on all the other questions, most of the other questions, they were pretty interesting.
They were pretty much on our side, an even division.
Unless he's weeding with an even division of people.
When's he going to print it?
Not until a week from Monday.
I had him hold it off.
You better hold it until, you better tell him you better hold it until after Tuesday.
After, you mean next Tuesday?
Yeah, Tuesday or whenever Kissinger gets back.
Well, he's holding this until, oh yeah, he's holding this until a week from.
He may want to pull again before, you know, because he wouldn't want to.
Right.
Go on the basis of this.
Well, he's holding this for 10 days.
But what about his other questions?
How'd they come?
Well, they were very interesting.
An even division of people would favor resumption of heavy bombings if the North Vietnamese break down in the negotiations again.
Very interesting.
A 50-50 split.
By 71 to 16, the people agree that what we did in bombing Hanoi was no worse than what the Communists had done in South Vietnam.
That's an interesting question.
By 48 to 33, a plurality agree that the only language Hanoi will listen to is forced, such as our bombing their cities.
Very interesting.
By 67 to 17, a big majority did not believe the claims that we deliberately bombed hospitals and places where people live in Hanoi.
Some of those questions aren't bad.
No.
Well, he always gives us a few good ones and a couple of zingers.
He goes on, his general conclusion at the end is that the feeling was rather soft, that it was shallow.
He says, although a majority disapprove of the bombings, this margin narrows appreciably with the prospect of another breakdown of negotiations.
He talks about how people would actually favor resumed bombing if the negotiations broke down.
And then he simply says that the public sentiment was not really very strong.
Uh, American people are uncomfortable... Is he, is he, did he poll, approve, disapprove, and all that stuff?
Uh, he didn't know.
We don't have that.
That's good.
It's good he didn't.
This is not a time to poll that.
Obviously, the American people have a comfortable sense about the bombings and wish they had not taken place.
Nonetheless, their reaction was less than horrified and less than indignant.
And on some dimensions, they justified the bombings as a cruel final stroke in what they hope will end a cruel and unhappy war.
That's the point.
The purpose of the bombing was to end the goddamn war rather than let it go on for four more years.
He wrote it pretty damn well, actually, from that standpoint.
So if it does come out a week from Monday, I talked to Henry about it.
He thought it would be no problem.
Well, if it comes out.
The point is, a week from Monday, it's going to be too late.
I mean, too late.
I mean, he really shouldn't do it because...
Yeah, because basically, if a week from Monday you have a settlement, don't you think he's got to redo this damn poll?
Yeah, what he will do is call it back in, so he can always, he mails the damn things up, but then they can always...
He's already mailed it, then?
No, no, no, he hasn't.
I can stop him from mailing it.
I don't think he should mail.
You tell him he ought to wait until the middle of next week.
All right.
Tell him to give us that time that you can't tell him what's going to happen, but we have a feeling about it.
I can easily do.
uh because he he was calling me from seattle today to find out if i we may have dumped you in the process but we may not because uh we're really putting the pressure on him the son of a i think may have to come with us if he doesn't well we'll we go another way well i think the uh i think you i really i think you've got the options either way mr president i met with kissinger after you would talk to him uh the other day and he
just sort of outline things for me.
And I really just, it seems to me that the option, either way you play it, is one that you're going to have great public support for.
And he's a damn fool if he doesn't see that.
I think the statements we get out of Goldberg.
Well, his statement with regard to the, is if the finding is, if all that comes out that people disapprove the bombing, that's not good.
But if they, if he can just get it,
you know, after this is over, then they will see if people don't disapprove bombing, if it's going to do any good.
Oh, no, no.
The way he's written this, I thought the most interesting thing is that half the public would favor resuming bombings if they broke off negotiations.
I think that was kind of surprising, frankly.
But we can control this.
We don't have to...
He'd like to put... More than half would...
favorite if I decide to go on and make a pitch for it.
Oh, hell yes.
You know, this is in the absence of... You see, I haven't used the big gun yet.
No, and that's a damn good thing that we haven't.
This is in the absence of...
Thank God I didn't make that speech.
Oh, hell.
We'd have had a... Well, we would have had everything that...
I mean, they would have broken loose then rather than catching their breath later.
Yeah, we did.
I would think myself, Chuck, that some of those goddamn senators and some of the media...
I think they'd be a little worried right now.
I hope that some of them are beginning to sense that, or are they?
Yes, sir.
I was at a party two nights ago, and Mac Mathias came over to me, and I've known Mac for a number of years.
I sure don't think much of him anymore.
He was talking about my going into law practice, and he kind of envied me.
He said, I'm tired of this business.
I said, you're up again next year, Mac, and he said,
don't know that I'm going to run.
And there you see, he's feeling the pressure.
He's sending out his newsletters are becoming increasingly conservative.
Saxby, in my opinion, clearly isn't going to run.
I think he's thrown in the sponge.
I really believe he is.
I think a lot of these fellows are going to feel it very well.
They're going to feel particularly if it works.
If it works, oh my God, they're going to feel
out on that big limb, and it just got stolen.
Oh, the only line they'll take is Mansfield's line.
Well, we could have had it without doing it, which is pure bullshit.
Yeah.
That'll be one line.
The other line is that they forced you into it.
God, I would be able to knock that down, because there was no forcing me into it.
This is a straight cold turkey deal.
You see, the important thing to remember, though, Mr. President, is the country doesn't buy that.
The country does not buy a lot of the crap that they're fed.
67% to 17% do not believe that we deliberately bombed hospitals or civilian targets.
Now, you've got the goddamn CBS News and Heart and Ramsey Clark and all these people on every night saying we were deliberately bombing Backmai.
That's all we ever heard about was that damn hospital.
Good God, when you think of what basically Eisenhower did in World War II, I mean, he decimated cities.
Why?
Not because he wanted to kill people, because he wanted to end the war.
Why did Truman drop the atomic bomb?
Not because he wanted to demolish cities, because he wanted to end the war.
Why did Eisenhower bomb the shit out of the cities of North Korea?
And that's what ended the war, you know?
And threatened to really take them out.
That's right.
He was ready to go in and, as you well know, do a whole lot more about me.
But that, sure, that brought him to their heels.
And this has done it again this time.
Well, we hope it has.
Well, I think the public will get it.
How's the morale of your staff and everything?
Are they a little jittery, or are they... No, not over this.
Standing firm.
No, they're doing fine.
He's growing.
He's great.
And Rudy's on board.
He's been working all this week, and...
You got him.
You're getting him.
He's tough.
He's hard.
Buchanan's been pretty busy finishing up his book, which is a hell of a fine job, by the way.
Is it?
Yes, sir.
He's done an excellent job.
We've done a couple of things.
We've done his book, which, of course, tears down a lot of the myths of the left wing and the mistaken predictions and how wrong you prove them to be.
That's the threat that you get out of it when you finish it.
we'll have I suppose the usual plaque of demonstrators tomorrow and so forth but I trust we have enough of our own people around that'll be shouting and so forth and so on we have yes sir Paul Hall has sent some of his contingents to town and there's some teamster fellows around I think that we have a few of our friends out in the ranks that'll help us if that
How about Maney's advisor?
He's still standing firm, isn't he?
Both still?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
God, yes.
He belongs with Kramer and the Pentagon.
He's hard right.
No problem with that.
But Scammon's is the most important.
What is his view again?
Well, I'm going to do a
Dick and I are going to do a pay-per-view on this, Mr. President, before I leave, just to get all of these thoughts down.
Because Gammon believes that the numbers on our side, if we keep the economy in balance, he says, just keep the economy a non-political issue.
The numbers on our side, you've got on the other side a coalition of labor, blacks, and poor, but the labor you've broken away.
So you've got the blacks and the poor.
And the intellectuals.
And the intellectuals, the new left.
Including Republican intellectuals, like Nubia.
Sure.
Republican intellectuals are slipping over.
And as Dick says, the lavender shirt mob, the new, he calls the new left, the homos and queers.
And he said, that's the bunch that now make up the Democratic Party.
And he said, the more the Democrats have to cater to the blacks and to the poor and the new left,
the more you are driving large numbers of new middle class.
One thing I was concerned about that you might check is to...
I noticed Rizzo wasn't coming down.
Is there something wrong there?
Well, I don't think so, Mr. President.
We've talked to him several times.
I think he's, as I said, I think he's hedging his bets for running for governor next time.
But he turned down several things at Christmastime.
Okay, well...
He's a loner, you know.
He never joined any organization.
He did everything we asked him to.
Yeah.
And that may be just his technique.
Well, that's probably smart.
He is a loner.
You know, he wouldn't join Connolly's organization.
Right, right.
But I think he ought to, he damn well better support this because... What, Don Labonte?
Yeah.
Oh, hell.
He's been, that's one of the places we've helped support have been the labor, solidly.
Teddy Gleason, God, he was, God bless him.
He just
Yeah, he caused the Australians, literally, to back down.
Did he cause them to back down?
How did he do it?
Sure, they lifted their boycott, and they not only lifted their boycott, but he refused to unload any Australian ships.
That's the stuff.
And the Australian government, the Prime Minister, the new Labor Prime Minister, I can't think of his name, issued a statement saying that there was to be no more public criticism by Australian public officials of U.S. actions in Southeast Asia.
Well, they better have.
It's going to take a hell of a long time to get well with us.
The Canadians will never get well, nor will the Swedes.
Well, of course not.
They shouldn't.
But Teddy was just out there saying, we want to unload your goddamn ships, and we support the president.
And Brown was on TV saying, the president knows best.
I trust him.
I mean, we've gotten great support there.
We've gotten marvelous support from the VFW.
Yeah, they're always good.
They're always good.
They're much better than the Legion.
And we've gotten that to...
from our store, what's on the hill, Stennis and Go, what I did the little tour yesterday of taking a little crack at two, and that came off just right.
Put just the right tone on that.
So, I don't know.
I think... Well, tell everybody to keep their bobbers up.
Oh, it is, Mr. President.
And, you know, our people tend to think, oh, gee, the bombing and all, and the president is marred, is...
inauguration and his second term, but his horror bombing and the rest of it.
And it has for a while.
I understand that.
It has a depressing effect.
It's different from May 8th for the reason that then, when America was faced with a defeat and so forth, I had to go on and say, we're going to bomb these bastards so we're not defeated so everybody supports it, just like they supported Kennedy in the Bay of Pigs when the country's in trouble.
In this case, we bombed when the hopes for peace were high, and we cooled those hopes, and that discouraged people.
Well, the psychology was precisely reversed from the... That's right, and the reason we couldn't go on television and say why we were doing is that if we had, we would never have got a settlement.
That's exactly right.
But I think people are going to, after the fact, see that.
Do you remember the reaction we got to the January 25th speech?
Hell of a lot of sympathy that, my God, look what the president has had to endure all these...
been trying to do.
I think you're going to get that this time.
If we, I mean, if we wrap it up, they're going to, the reason that there's a sort of a feeling of, well, let's wait and see is that they get burned once.
Yeah.
We're going to wrap it up.
Well, I know we are.
One way or the other.
As soon as that's across the wheel, I think there's going to be a public martyrdom of a sort.
We won't have to do it.
We shouldn't.
No.
But it'll happen to you.
Well, we should do some of it.
I want to go out
slash the bejesus out of the people that have been... That's right.
Look at what those... We put together a complete compendium of what they've said over this past year on this issue.
Look at what those bastards have said.
My God.
It's treasonable.
It's totally treasonable.
Exactly right.
I mean, the statement that one of them made this week about we want to pass an end-to-war fund cutoff just to ensure that the president continues to negotiate.
My God, for
one of the jackasses in the House.
That, to me, is reasonable.
We'll cut the bastards right to the bone.
But the morale is great, Mr. President.
I'll give you just one little interesting example.
Out in Prince George's County, they've had this bussing order.
My God, I'll tell you, any Republican can be elected to any office in Prince George's County today, anywhere, because we've
into that case.
And I have had more calls from Democrats and labor people and Republicans.
Is that Goode's history?
No, sir.
What the hell's the matter with that?
He's a crazy fellow.
Oh, well, he's Montgomery County.
He has to appeal to all the left-wing Jews.
But, no, no, that's Larry Hogan.
Oh, Hogan.
Yeah, he's pretty good.
And this new gal, Holt, who's very good, conservative.
Good.
Out there, all I talk about is the fact that you stepped into that bussing suit.
That's a whole lot more important than the bombing.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
And the economy is more important than the bombing, too.
That's just going great.
Everybody's economic fortunes are up except the Washington Post.
Oddly enough, their stock has dropped three more points since I told you last.
It's now at 28.
That's too damn bad.
It's not a shame.
It was 38 in December and record earnings in it.
dropped ten points, but the rest of the economy, all the rest of the economy except for the Washington Post is great, which is a good way to have it.
Well, tomorrow you work out a deal and bring people up just to come up to review a section as they come by, and they can stand with me and take the salute, and they love that.
Oh, yeah, I'll get the right ones.
And that, Mr. President, is a brilliant speech.
That
Well, the speech is not long.
It's only about, well, 14 minutes, perhaps.
It may go 16 with applause.
Yeah, that's perfect.
14 would be one of the shortest.
That's good, but that's the dominant, that's the theme, and that's a great legacy.
Okay.
Well, I thank you, Mr. President.
Thank you.