Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 36 › Conversation 036-030

Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Vietnam War and Nguyen Van Thieu

Sunday, January 21, 1973 · 10:33 AM–10:37 AM ET · White House Telephone · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.Conversation036-030 on Tape 36StartSunday, January 21, 1973 at 10:33 AMEndSunday, January 21, 1973 at 10:37 AMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 036-030 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417194505 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discussed the progress of negotiations with South Vietnamese President Nguyen Van Thieu regarding the Vietnam peace agreement. Kissinger reported that Thieu had effectively moved past his objections to the accord and was likely maneuvering for domestic political optics. The two finalized plans to meet the following morning at the Executive Office Building to consolidate the final facts before Kissinger's departure and the President’s anticipated public announcement.

Audio

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NARA Description

On January 21, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 10:33 am to 10:37 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 036-030 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 36-30

Date: January 21, 1973
Time: Between 10:33 and 10:37 am
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

       Vietnam settlement
            -Nguyen Van Thieu
                  -Response to the President’s letter
                  -Cease-fire agreement
                       -Protocols
                       -Domestic reasons
                              -South Vietnamese Foreign Minister
                                               -23-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                             Conversation No. 36-30 (cont’d)

                   -William H. Sullivan
                         -Meeting with North Vietnamese
                               -Possible concession
             -Kissinger’s schedule
                   -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
             -The President’s schedule
                   -Meeting with Kissinger
                   -Executive Office Building [EOB]
                   -Thieu’s formal acceptance of agreement
             -The President’s statements
                   -Timing

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Mr. President.
I wondered what the latest report was.
Right.
Uh-huh.
We haven't had the due answer.
We just have his reaction as he received your letter.
The second letter.
The third letter.
The letter we discussed yesterday.
Yeah.
And he said, well, he understands that if you make these requests, that there must be a very grave situation here.
And he's now practically agreed to the agreement.
Now he's yacking about the protocol.
Yeah, I've been doing that for all week, of course.
Well, no, he was still...
He's now given up on his objections to the agreement.
I am certain now he's coming along.
And he is just now making the record of having fought every step of the way.
Well, do we expect an answer?
We expect some answer today, yes.
which in my view will still leave a little crack open.
What he would like to be able to say for domestic reasons is that his foreign minister talked to me in Paris and got one crappy little concession.
Now I have sent Sullivan in to see the North Vietnamese and it's just possible that we'll get one.
And I'll know that tonight.
But even without it, I'm certain he'll come along now.
Doesn't have any choice.
I mean, as we all well know.
Well, in any event, you said you're planning to leave tonight?
No, tomorrow morning.
Tomorrow morning.
Mm-hmm.
And Haig will be coming back this afternoon.
Well, what time tomorrow morning?
I'm leaving at 9.
What time we should get together?
Oh, any time you say.
Well, you see, I meant what time when everything will be in the bag.
That's what I want to know.
Maybe we better wait until tomorrow morning.
Tomorrow morning we'll have all the facts.
Yeah.
And I can put off the departure by half an hour.
No use to meet before that.
Suppose that we plan to meet at, say, 30 tomorrow morning.
That gives us the time to...
for you to have...
I mean, are you supposed to depart at 9?
I was supposed to depart Andrews at 9.
If we could make it at 8, it'd be... Fine.
Because I can delay the departure to 9.30.
Oh, fine, fine.
Fine.
Why don't we meet at 8 o'clock, and we'll...
I'll just come over to the EOB, and we'll meet there.
Right.
Meet there at 8 o'clock, so that there won't be...
If you get any information worth reporting, because, see, I'm tied up all day today with reception.
Right.
through about 8 o'clock.
You get something by tonight, which you probably won't.
No, I'll have something by tonight, I'm sure.
Well, if you have, then possibly we could get together then.
The only purpose of getting together, obviously, is to...
But tomorrow morning would be, we'll have all the facts tomorrow morning.
And we also have to go over the...
situation on the with regard to the remarks that I'll be making on now that they present indications are now that I will go forward on Tuesday it's 98%
In fact, it's certain, Mr. President.
I'm just coppering it.
But basically, I don't see that anything can happen.
The only point, that's really the only effect is how it affects my remarks, of course, isn't it?
What we hear from him.
I think, Mr. President, at the very worst, if I could recommend, if he has not given his formal agreement then...
I would just ignore him.
I would not make, and he will then the next day certainly come along.
He cannot afford to break with you publicly once you've committed yourself.
Well, we've told him that in the letter, haven't we, Henry?
We've told him that, but he hasn't broken with you once he realized, once he accepted the fact that you meant business.
Yeah.
Every exchange he moves closer to you.
He is not acting like a man digging in.
Right.
Good.
Well, then we'll plan.
As a matter of fact, we'll meet then at 8 o'clock in the morning.
Let's just make it certain.
Right.
And then that way we can get the whole thing fired out of the way.
All right.
Fine.
Thank you.
We'll say that you had a brief talk with Haig today when he arrived.
Oh, sure, sure.
I'll be in conversation with him.
Right.
Because actually I've had so many reports on him, I've already talked to him.
That's right.
You can say yes, I have discussion with Hagen, that I'm meeting with you in the morning before you depart.
Right, Mr. Craig.
Fine, Henry, thank you.

Also recorded on January 21, 1973

  • 036-029 10:07 AM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:07 am and 10:33 am.
  • 036-031 1:52 PM · 12 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 1:52 pm to 2:04 pm.
  • 036-032 2:04 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:04 pm and 2:27 pm.
  • 036-033 2:27 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone from 2:27 pm to 2:33 pm.
  • 402-002 4:54 PM · 18 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 4:54 pm and 5:00 pm.
  • 402-003 4:54 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 4:54 pm and 5:00 pm.
  • 402-004 5:00 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:00 pm and 5:02 pm.
  • 402-005 5:00 PM · 16 min — President Richard M. Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:00 pm and 5:22 pm.

All 17 conversations from January 21, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 036-030, January 21, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417194505). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/036-030 (accessed October 29, 2026).