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Conversation 140-005

TapeTape 140StartWednesday, August 16, 1972 at 8:21 AMEndWednesday, August 16, 1972 at 8:29 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haig, Alexander M., Jr.Recording deviceCamp David Study Table
AudioNARA Description

On August 16, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 8:21 am to 8:29 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 140-005 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 140-5

Date: August 16, 1972
Time: 8:21 am - 8:29 am
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.

[See Conversation No. 202-15]

     Paul C. Warnke
          -George S. McGovern's statement
          -Possible briefing of Warnke
                -Security clearance process
                     -Questions on Pentagon Papers

                                   (rev. Mar-02)

                     -The President’s instructions
                             -Report by Richard M. Helms
           -Contents of briefing
                 -McGovern's statement
                 -Newspapers
                 -Haig's forthcoming calls to State Department, Defense
                  Department and Helms
                     -Referrals to Haig
     -McGovern statement
           -Previous meetings with Henry A. Kissinger
                 -Kissinger’s recollection
           -Tone
     -Briefing
           -Content
                 -Sanitization
     -Pentagon Paper questions
           -Instructions to Helms
           -Answers under oath
                 -Connections with Daniel Ellsberg

Kissinger's schedule
     -Vietnam negotiations
           -Progress
                 -North Vietnamese strategy
                      -Political settlement
                      -Concessions
           -Political ramifications

Public relations
     -Vietnam
            -Effect of negotiations on domestic critics
                 -September, October 1972
            -Effect of critics
            -Effect of Kissinger’s trip on critics
            -W. Ramsey Clark
            -R. Sargent Shriver’s statement
                 -Dean Rusk rebuttal
                      -Press coverage
                               -News summary
            -McGovern’s reaction to Clark
                 -Clark’s possible position in the Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
            -Clark’s statement
                 -Washington Star

                                         (rev. Mar-02)

                          -Prisoners of war [POWs[
                -Press view of McGovern
                     -The President’s view

     Vietnam
          -Battlefield situation
                -Possible attack on Hue
                      -Timing
                           -Kissinger’s view
                      -South Vietnamese
                           -Military activity near the Citadel [of Quang Tri]

     Warnke's security check
         -Content of briefing
               -Ellsberg
         -Questions by Helms
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Morning, sir.
Al, I just wanted to be sure that you had the signals correct on this Warnke thing.
In view of McGovern's statement that he didn't find them useful, have you done any briefing yet?
No, have not, sir.
Has he called you?
No.
We already got in touch with him.
We have a security clearance process underway.
Well, I want the security prosecutors to be very tough, and this is an order.
They are to ask him about the Pentagon Papers and any information they have that he might have had something there to go into.
Very, very tough.
Is that clear?
Right, sir.
Have you got the order?
Yes, sir.
Yeah, mark it down.
Any information they have.
Now, there has been an investigation.
He's been involved.
They are to ask him about that.
and ask all the tough questions on that and put the best... Who does security clearance?
Helms?
Yes, sir.
All right.
Order Helms.
Tell Helms that's an order and that I want a report from him as to the questions he asked.
I shall expect that report on my desk.
Right.
At the end of the day.
Okay?
Right.
Now, on your briefing, it should be nothing because it should be he said they're not useful and so forth and you're just...
total uh i mean i don't want you just to tell them to just tell a thing that isn't in the newspapers you understand yes sir they said that's the way it is so just give them nothing except these newspapers call state call defense call helms tell them that under absolutely no circumstances whatever are any of them to talk to to uh wonky
give any information, and they are to refer all such calls to you that you'll handle them.
Yes, sir.
Because we just want to get this thing straightened out since this fellow's acted this way about it.
Because that was, I mean, for him to say that he'd talked to Henry a dozen times and it hadn't been interesting but not useful.
We're just not going to allow that.
That's just not right.
Don't you agree?
Yes, sir.
I sent a message to Henry to see if he had, per chance, talked to him.
Henry said, absolutely not.
Eighteen months ago he saw him.
He's seen him socially, that's all.
That's right, and only socially.
That's right.
But you know what I mean.
That's the way they're playing this, so with a sort of a cocky, insolent attitude.
And I want that to be, but I want it to be very, very, I mean really sanitized, Al.
Yes, sir.
Just don't give him anything.
But now you can understand, Helms, this is an order, Helms is to ask the questions that are pertinent with regard to the Pentagon Papers.
Yes, sir.
And he's to go into that.
It is because there have been stories to the effect that he was involved, and it's to be under oath.
Is that clear?
Yes, sir.
Under oath.
Put it under oath.
Say, now we have to have this because this Pentagon Papers has been raised.
Have you ever done it?
Have you ever?
Do you know Ellsberg?
He used to ask, do you know Ellsberg?
Name the principles in it.
Right, sir.
And just put the son of a bitch right through the ringer.
Okay?
Yes, sir.
Okay.
Henry's on his way, I see.
Yes, sir.
Yeah.
Got lots of stir on it.
Got lots of stir on it.
Yeah, lots of stir.
It's true.
Unfortunately, there's going to be much because it was pretty clear from reading that thing of the
his report that uh they're just waiting it out al i mean uh you just go over i mean it's just going over and over again the same things that's right they just take seven and a half hours and then say we want a political settlement well really nothing has changed when you really come down to it sure that they'll they'll agree on this we worked out this problem we worked out that problem see none of those mean anything to them that's henry doesn't really understand those are debating points
I mean, you can always agree on the little things, and then you hold on the big one.
I mean, hell, I've done this so often in conversations with people.
I say, well, we'll concede that and make them all feel good, but then don't give them the big one.
And that's what Henry's got to realize.
The only part that matters is the political settlement to them.
As long as they hang in tight on that, we have no chance.
But as long as we see these bastards here are losing time.
What's that?
These bastards here at home are losing valuable time.
How's that?
They can't really take us on on it.
Oh, you mean by Henry talking to them?
Sure.
Oh, I agree.
The talks are fine.
I just mean I think we are under no illusions as to what...
There will come a time, probably in about two or three weeks or so, that they'll say, well, what the hell's new, you know, or something like that.
We'll throw the other trip in.
Yeah.
The announcement after that, and when they see that, they're...
Yeah.
It's just going to be tough on them.
We're depriving them of... At least we're depriving them up until about, I think we can say that until the 20th of September.
Well, I've thought that out.
But I know that by the 1st of October, what really matters is there.
And that's a brilliant game we're playing.
I just have in mind the fact, though, that because of the way these assholes are stirring things up, they're delaying the end of this war.
No doubt about it.
And you know that, Al.
God damn it, Al.
But I must say, Henry's really bamboozled the bastards, didn't he?
That's right, and that's what we want to do.
They just, I don't know, at least this press are just not going to join any of this Clark crap or anything else.
Isn't it interesting how the Clark thing felt like a...
It's really rebounded on the bastards.
Yeah, and I think even the Shriver crap, I mean, there's a... Oh, that's a loser.
Rust stood up and said...
Well, what happened on that, Guy?
Well, he just said, this is imagination.
He said, there were certain people that may have thought that.
He said, but they never talked that way, and there was never any evidence of it in negotiations.
I'll be damned.
He made his public statement?
Yes, sir.
Hope it got out.
Did it get out?
It got out.
It's in today's news summary, yes.
Great.
And also, of course, McGovern pulled away from Clark yesterday.
He said he may have used bad judgment.
Well, hell, once you chink him that way...
yeah exactly yeah but they didn't he still got his still al he's still his candidate for the fbi yeah that's right that's what we are and pulled away from that but i thought the clark thing where he said he had a dead weather star put a few prisoners the times he did well what the hell he hasn't got a damn thing no he's like i think these guys are killing themselves now they'll get better trouble but right now they're just
Well, the point is, they're flailing around and figuring the press is going to play their game, but I think the press, interestingly enough, Al, is a little goddamn, feels they've been taken in by the sons of bitches.
They do.
That's temporary, but they do.
Oh, I know it's temporary, but temporary for us is good.
But they feel that over and over again, here are these guys, come up with something, and there's nothing there.
That's right.
uh the battlefield thing still is about the same isn't it i noticed yes sir nothing yeah the big attack in the way that everybody predicted a month ago what's the matter with it well they just haven't gotten it off the ground they uh henry thinks maybe they're waiting till october to do it i'm not sure they can do it then i'm not sure they can what do you think i i don't think they can wait that long i think we'll see it before then but i don't think it's gonna
Well, the South Vietnamese are fighting pretty well.
They're fighting very well.
Is that your view?
Yes, sir.
Around Citadel and everything?
Yes, sir.
Well, be very tough, very polite, but very tough on this thing.
I've got to know.
I'm not going to give him any confidential information if he was involved in this Ellsberg thing.
Absolutely.
The challenge is to ask those questions.
Absolutely.
Okay.
All right.
All right.
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