Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 212 › Conversation 212-004
Nixon phone call with Colson on Defense budget and Campaign strategy
Tuesday, September 19, 1972 · 7:46 PM–8:10 PM ET · Camp David Hard Wire · 13 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Charles Colson discussed strategies for attacking the Democratic candidate, focusing on defense budget cuts and the candidate's perceived "dishonest" statements. They planned to use John Connally to publicly denounce the candidate's defense proposals and to highlight specific individuals like Halperin and Gelb for criticism. The conversation also touched on the importance of publicizing a "zero casualty" statement and leveraging issues like amnesty to damage the opponent's campaign.
Audio
This clip of the conversation was cut from the tape by the National Archives (catalog record ↗).
NARA Description
On September 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 7:46 pm to 8:10 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 212-004 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 212-4 Date: September 19, 1972 Time: 7:46 pm - 8:10 pm Location: Camp David Hard Wire The President talked with Charles W. Colson. [See Conversation no. 144-2; two items have been withdrawn from this conversation]
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript was made by an AI model listening to the recording (gemini-3.8-flash) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Speaker names are the model's inference from the voices and the participant list. Words and names can still be wrong — verify against the audio and the finding aid before citing.
Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data
Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Each line starts with a timestamp button; press it to play the audio from that point.
NixonHello? Did you get home?
NixonYeah, well, you're having dinner, I guess, huh?
NixonOh, my. That's good. Well, that was a very interesting meeting. I was glad to get Connally's reactions to everything. He's got very good intuition.
NixonRight. Right.
NixonYeah.
NixonYeah, I think I think that's right. And it was good, though, that he reached the conclusion they should go forward. I mean, he had to be convinced of it. Now he is convinced of it, and now he should go forward.
NixonIncidentally, if we don't use him now, we're not going to be able to use him during the— well, you know, it's it's better to use him now that during the rally period.
NixonMhm. Yeah.
NixonYeah. Well, actually, I it's interesting that he's I understand he got sick of his scheduling. [unintelligible] isn't that truly sort of canceled out, then head back for Paris Peace and then right on.
NixonDo we know what it is or what it— what is it now? Is he shifting it?
NixonWell, that's the main thing. We got to hang him with that, and and that it really got to be answered. That's got to be answered right in the same story, I think. Not wait, not wait.
NixonGood. But now, who's going to answer this and how, that is on the defense? Laird or what?
NixonAnd he's got to hit it. He's got to hit it with with maximum publicity. It's got to be built up. And he's got to and he's got to say he's got to use the used the thing that I worked out in the Legion speech. He would cut six aircraft carriers, that makes us the second-strongest navy. He would cut 600 alarm report. That's just a stronger, say, a horse, even. We're already the second strongest army, the second strongest missile force. You can kill them with that if they do it right.
NixonIt'll be rough, yeah. Starting, starting next Wednesday.
NixonSo it would hit while he's on it.
NixonHis defense budget, I see. When would Mel hit then? How? Yes, I really think this is one of his better programs.
NixonAnd then hit him there, but let me say, I didn't hit him with the evening news. Thursday is terribly important for the state, as far as the defense thing, just slaughter him on it.
Nixon[unintelligible]
NixonWell, let's get those in. I mean now, have you got somebody to work on that immediately as to who some of these people are that they're involved in the Ellsberg case?
NixonThey are. That's got he's got to be attacked on that strongly. If we can get Mooney to get in that, that would be good.
NixonWell, take on Halperin and Gelb. This has got to be a real nutcracker. We can't let him get off the hook on defense, you know. We really can't let him get off the hook on it.
NixonDefense provided we hit it this week.
NixonGood. Good. If he tries to claim that a $32 billion cut leaves the U.S. first, that's impossible. No way.
NixonMakes makes discredit the panel and I really hope that we get the best nutcrackers there are. And then, I'd just pick out the worst ones like Halperin and Gelb and that.
NixonWell, but on the other hand, don't let him get away with it, this is an attempt to clean up, he's trying to This guy is just only what he did then. Mr. Deep, kid me. It's ridiculous. He's trying to move back to the center and lie to us now to turn. We mustn't let him do it.
NixonNow, one thing I would do is to have Connally issue a statement immediately afterwards and said this is a dishonest statement, and I will answer it next week on television on Wednesday. You get the point? So that you build his speech up, because "I'm going to answer—" I said, "This is a shocking, dishonest statement and it's just credible. You know what I mean? And I will answer." And you'd start building his speech up a bit.
NixonIn other words, we haven't done much in building our our speeches up on our side lately, so we'd ought to do it that way, you see.
NixonGood. Good. He's up there for me on that track.
NixonJust I wouldn't really try to use Shultz too much on that. Shultz's not good, he's not comfortable with it. And just, I just—
ColsonRegular pause between them. It's so dull.
NixonWell,
Colsonmy own I know he's great, but you see it's it's he just he isn't comfortable with it. So he deals in the things that are sort of positive, and, and all that and let somebody else do the, do the attack. Stans is a
NixonRight.
ColsonHe's pretty damn good.
NixonHe was a damn successful candidate for Governor, you know that?
ColsonGood. That's good.
NixonWell, it's interesting that his defense speech will come out the day that we get that zero casualty statement. We'll be sure, be sure that every, every spokesman, I make I make a hundred calls tonight and tomorrow, let's get that thing really synced up.
Colson[unintelligible]
NixonWho might you send? What what'd he do today? Or was he [unintelligible]?
ColsonHe's probably already in Minneapolis.
NixonGot to get Democrats for me building.
ColsonSo I think that the Cardinal Cushing, and two or three others, I don't remember who the hell said it earlier, who first came out. They they've got that word.
NixonGood. Good.
Colson[unintelligible]
NixonSuppose that Harris would say that even on the defense issue, that that shows he's twisting around a little bit on that one?
Colson[unintelligible]
NixonThey're wrong and the liberals are wrong. They can't sell it either. The point is that they just realized they're beginning to realize that this hell of a plebiscite on, on them, you know. That's what's beginning to eat into them.
ColsonRight.
NixonYou know, I think it's it's good that Gallup uh goes up and says the gaps going to close and so forth. So now he he's got it either way.
ColsonAnyway by those figures that you gave me it might even be a surprise column.
NixonYeah. After McGovern's big week, and all the press said he'd turned the corner.
ColsonThat's right.
NixonNow what he ought to do of course, I think, is come back to Washington and start those national telecasts. It'll help him some.
ColsonHe's going to have control of that, you just realize.
NixonYou see, when he goes on, this is unlike the acceptance speech, he's on one network and he'll get about a six or a seven rating at the most. That's all. And most of them will be for him already.
ColsonRight.
NixonSo, basically, they're they're against him. What'd they say?
Colson[unintelligible]
Nixonall the prayers in the schools. Because as far as we're concerned, we don't have the NEA, and we don't give one damn.
Colson[unintelligible]
NixonSure he threw a lot, yeah. He's just can't let him off the hook, I mean just say, you surely understand we must not let him get off the hook on the defense issue and that is his real Achilles heel.
Colson[unintelligible]
NixonRight.
Colson[unintelligible]
NixonRight.
Colsonwe've been talking about this, we have to push him to turn it and make that the issue.
NixonThis issue of amnesty ought to be good, you know.
ColsonThey'll have to serve uh
NixonWe've got to carry hard on that one. Anybody who has deserted his country to serve, I mean he's he's got to pay the penalty. He's a work candidate.
ColsonAll right, he does, but he says that too loosely.
NixonYeah. We've got to stay with it. Even when they're all home and the war is over they got to pay the penalty for having deserted their country.
ColsonThey have cried the penalty. That's right. Listen,
NixonThat's right. That's right.
ColsonThat's right. That's right.
NixonOkay, well anyway [cough] It should be an interesting night. We uh with uh Sindlinger showing what he does, it's going to be very hard for Gallup or Harris to come out with anything very far different from that.
ColsonI hope so.
NixonYeah.
ColsonRight.
Nixon[unintelligible] having been bullied.
ColsonYou see, he's getting desperate and he said those, also had regular people. There's what we are, and be sure we watch the impulses, anything to create reaction like that.
NixonWell, I just get the feeling that the Democrats think the good god damn that he's something is awful. It's all going down the tube. That's why we've got to get Dole and the and that whole group on the calling of the bill.
Colson[unintelligible]
NixonRight.
ColsonJust tell them to pipe down, do it, but say nothing.
NixonOkay.
Also recorded on September 19, 1972
- 144-001 7:45 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, unknown person(s), and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 7:45 pm and 7:46 pm.
- 212-003 7:45 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at 7:45 pm.
- 144-002 7:46 PM · 23 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at Camp David from 7:46 pm to 8:10 pm.
- 144-003 8:10 PM · 10 sec — William Hirsch and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David on an unknown date, sometime between 8:10 pm on September 19, 1972 and 7:10 pm on September 20, 1972.
- 144-004 8:10 PM · 13 min — Edward R. F. Cox and Allen C. Hall talked on the telephone at Camp David on an unknown date, sometime between 8:10 pm on September 19, 1972 and 7:10 pm on September 20, 1972.
- 212-005 8:10 PM · 9 sec — William Hirsch and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David on an unknown date, sometime between 8:10 pm on September 19, 1972 and 7:10 pm on September 20, 1972.
- 212-006 8:10 PM · 13 sec — Julie Nixon Eisenhower and unknown person(s) met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David on an unknown date, sometime between 8:10 pm on September 19, 1972 and 7:10 pm on September 20, 1972.
- 212-007 8:10 PM · 58 sec — Julie Nixon Eisenhower and unknown person(s) met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David on an unknown date, sometime between 8:10 pm on September 19, 1972 and 7:10 pm on September 20, 1972.
Related conversations
- Nixon, Haldeman & Connally on IMF Speech and Campaign Strategy September 6, 1972 · 1 hr 31 min
- Nixon, Moorer & White House photographer on Prisoners of War (POWs) February 14, 1973 · 1 hr 2 min
- Nixon phone call with Colson on POWs and Television Coverage October 16, 1972 · 9 min
- Nixon phone call with Colson on 1972 campaign and George McGovern September 23, 1972 · 27 min
- Nixon phone call with Colson on 1972 Presidential Campaign and George McGovern September 24, 1972 · 13 min
- Nixon phone call with Colson on campaign strategy and blue-collar voters September 23, 1972 · 14 min
Cite this conversation
Conversation 212-004, September 19, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 651228136). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/212-004 (accessed November 1, 2026).