On April 7, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Hugh Scott, Robert C. Byrd, Robert P. Griffin, Gerald R. Ford, Carl B. Albert, William E. Timmons, Clark MacGregor, Ronald L. Ziegler, J. Bruce Whelihan, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 7:09 pm to 7:59 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 246-037 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Hello, Jerry, how are you?
Hi, how are you, Mr. Brennan?
You'll get here.
No, you'll just be in there.
All right.
You're right.
We got you up.
All right.
This is a nice office.
You weren't here before?
Who do you work for?
This is where I use my own money.
Right.
Where'd you get it?
I didn't know where I had it.
I had it all mine.
Hey, gentlemen, work for us.
Where'd you get it?
I don't get it.
I don't know.
You were out with the numbers.
Let's be a second, man.
You're all set.
Okay.
Thank you.
Okay.
No, I was, of course, the television people.
You finished?
Yeah.
What do you have left?
I think we're taking him on our own.
Hey, let me make this rather brief.
Actually, I want to thank all of you for studying.
You have knocked off a four-meter, eight-and-a-half, seven-meter, eight-and-a-half, seven-meter, eight-and-a-half, seven-meter, eight-and-a-half, seven-meter, eight-and-a-half, seven-meter,
We might do on occasion, whatever you all think sort of problem is in the leadership.
But anyway, we, uh, I think we did a very good, good job in the last three years.
The New York City here represents all of us.
It's a pretty argument that all of a sudden the public will do the thing.
Yeah, but we're done.
This call tonight, we'll give you copies.
I appreciate what you were doing.
Of course, you should read it, because we have to comment on it.
We have to get all of these great releases on the blog.
So if you've got time, you can actually do that.
It's really important.
It's a proven option.
All right.
As all we know, the main purpose of ours is to control what we do and to have a conscious camp at times.
So we're handling that a little differently.
I had my briefings of the
But we're able to do so to a degree.
I can't believe it.
I made the last station in the first time.
And the reason for saying that is because, as the Angolians would agree to say that, remember the Angolians, you probably all remember, when the South Indians fought in the street as well, they had a relation of about $9 or $10, $55 or $10, somewhere in that Walmart.
And we, of course, went to the airport, and they were standing on the ground.
We had a heavy catch, and I thought, well, I don't know what to do with that.
I was very, well, concerned about that.
We had a heavy catch, and we were far ahead.
And so, what?
And it's all the information.
I have been a greater blow to the people of the United States than I have been to the people of the United States.
I have been a greater blow to the people of the United States.
Because of that, we now are going to be in a big fight.
A big fight in terms of bringing our horses down to $100,000.
I'll announce $100,000 from May 1st to December 1st for your purposes.
It's going to be incredible.
Anybody can buy it.
It's moving from $12,500 to $200,000.
At that, of course, we will end up with a figure of 108 at the force level of 0.
That is, if you've done more,
I will say in a speech that the goal is a total lack of control.
I've always been aware of that.
My opposition to the concept, which I dwell in, and I always have, is the idea of a battle between science and the world.
There's a great, you know, set of things.
I explained the reason for that.
We'll quit regardless of what you do.
We're all drawn to your science.
Oh, yeah, this is the main circuit.
They can find exactly what they need.
Go back, please.
I am certain we are one of them.
One day longer than I find it necessary for a purpose.
to have a go at their own defense.
This will provide, as you say, an idol of God.
I, however, must be flexible about it.
we must be flexible in order for three reasons to buy national.
One, lacking reciprocal action on the other, not giving them the advantage they need to know what we're doing to be able to make a planned democracy.
Two, because we need it to divide our people's budget.
And three, to go together with the school and open up the other economy, because
in setting a date, which was earlier than I had in mind.
Mine's literally not.
And mine runs very, very rich.
I'm trying to find a real time when by going the road that I have now, I have now a very good chance
All right.
I've seen the truth.
I don't know if it's true or not.
I guess there's some fashion in that.
I don't know if it's true or not.
But all I can say is that in terms of achieving the goal of which we have been there, in other words, ending the war in a way that would solve the issue, it's just a chance to choose another.
My plan is to do it nine to ten times a day.
I said something to Carl the other day at breakfast, to Carl and Jerry and all the rest of them.
I hate to say it to Carl and Jerry, but I think it was a dog against a pretty tough crowd.
I appreciate it.
I'm not asking you to do it.
I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
The plan is going to be in one week.
It's very easy.
The plan is working.
We're at two-thirds of our assembly.
We're committed to all of them.
We're committed to the appeal of every act.
Also, we're committed to all of them.
Anyway, that's all we have to do now.
And I'm going to hear it from my wife, and I'm going to hear it from my wife.
The Congress is just...
But they reject my plan.
They want us to have a baby.
It's all well and good.
I mean, it's not happened before.
But whenever the Congress decides that it's the President who's going to have a baby, the Congress is going to have a baby.
The Congress is going to have a baby.
It goes that way.
That's what happens.
As we all know, when we talk about states, the question is not what we have to do.
The question is when and who you announce it to.
And now, whether it serves our purpose today, this is not the time.
But, there is still time for conviction.
You know, I am proud of you, and you know it.
Also, at this great time, this is not the time.
It's all good to find a kind of way, if there is a chance to see it.
If, just one, there is a better way.
Thank you.
On the way, it was cold.
I got up in like a week, and I probably said to myself, I'm going to go.
I said, I'm going to go.
I said, I'm going to go.
I said, I'm going to go.
I don't know.
That's why I don't go along with something that's on the staff.
That's what I do.
I don't want to be a hero.
I don't want to be a part of it.
I'm sorry, but I don't want to be a part of it.
I'm sure.
that I can say that he knows how I feel about the U.S. and all.
And I think there is more of a future than I can imagine.
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Yeah, the 184,000.
Oh yeah, that bell, the number of the combat out of the 184 is quite small.
But you know, it's an ammunition license.
Mr. Bray?
From three to one.
I have not, in terms of combat and so forth, I haven't broken the cap.
We're able to do this.
They have the ability to .
But in the ocean operation, not only was it .
It was so damaging to them that their ability to march and sustain some of the
Mr. President, you asked me this afternoon to put together some figures which I'd be interested in.
One of the criticisms that is made of your policies by some of our opponents is that we are substituting air combat for ground control, and that we are killing civilians.
And I thought perhaps it might interest you that the time we came into office and suppressed tactical air operations in Southeast Asia had been reduced by 50%.
And B-52 operations have been reduced by 45%.
And within South Vietnam, where most of the population is, all air operations have been reduced by 88%, reflecting the fact that the war has moved out of South Vietnam.
Actually, over
Over 85% of our attacks are in Laos, which is uninhabited.
And therefore, it is gladly up-shooted with civilian casualties too, in our mind.
It's very hard to get tickets for it, so I can't give you the percentage decrease.
We know that the farming within South Vietnam, which has the greatest population, has decreased by 88%.
Even within Laos, even counting the lands on operation, that is in January and February of this year, the farming in Laos was 15% less.
than it was in January, February 1969.
And I'm certain that now that the Lanzar operation ended, it will turn out to be 30% less.
It's an unusually high period of operation.
And again, in Laos, of course, we are bombing, most of our bombing is in unpopulated areas.
The word about casualties.
Casualties have been on our attention now.
about what the categories are going to be.
The categories for the first quarter of this year, what fit what we were in the first quarter of our first year.
And the categories for this week will be the highest in that percentage, because we had an unfortunate accident on Saturday.
This week we'll run 88,000 miles an hour, including the size of the category.
What we anticipate here is now with the down, as you may remember, there's about a three-week timeline after one of these operations.
We have an operation and then a hospital.
My guess is that
In the evening cell, Mr. President, the casualty for this week was 36% less than they were at a comparable period last year.
The progress of all states has never passed enough reading.
But one other interesting fact that a few instructions have put together to do with this.
Forty-five percent of the casualties suffered in your administration were suffered in the first six months.
The enemy was still continuing the offensive and that every six months period
Since then, I've seen a decrease, 45% in the first six months, 20% 22% the second, 19% the third, 9% in the third six months, and about 3% this month.
The president is possibly going down.
Is there anything at all on the negotiations with the president?
I think he's quite a candidate.
I'd like to see what he has to say.
Well, let's just say this, if any of you were to indicate what caused the negotiation, I'd be sure to say that it's not my decision.
You know what I know here.
I'm not going to hold your hopes up.
That's all right.
We've got to say that.
Where is he?
Where is he?
Well, I think this is so sensitive that, and you know, also, also including after the war, you know, I think that there was a lot of negotiations for years in this instance.
However, I got, you know, there was a lot of negotiations going on, and it's all negotiated now, and we're down to the point where it's going on, except for as far as the evidence is concerned.
I would add to your statement that the less set about it now, the better off we are.
I would simply say this.
I would simply say this.
I'd like you to keep the negotiations alive.
And it is not wrong.
You can't give them up.
Yes, you can.
That's not...
But only after, it's just one of those things where, particularly with communism,
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They can't pump on us for the reason that the south field means they've got a bigger one in the north field.
If they can pull all that, if they really can make sure that it's not that deep, I couldn't find out if it's their catch or not.
If it's their catch, if it's the growth of the compound, I don't know if it's... Well, there is a... No, we've seen there's...
We have a prisoner issue up in the center.
And it's about .
You're trolling.
You still get three or four of his pockets.
We're going to be all mixed up.
I thought we'd get to it.
We didn't.
You had to throw in the words for a certain time.
I think we have the best opportunity.
Well, listen, I called you, and I called my computer.
I think you did extremely well.
We consider it what you might have done.
They call us brothers.
It's a bad name.
And the publicity on the box is for that.
There might have been a total disaster.
You know, it's only in perspective you don't see, you know, the rough days of my own.
I don't know.
I think today is extremely rough.
You know, I don't think you can.
You know, I don't think you can.
You know, I don't think you can.
You know, I don't think you can.
You know, I don't think you can.
He left for Europe.
We will let you say we'll do our best to talk to the senator.
We know the problems.
And I don't want you to follow the instructions.
All I can say is I need you to know what I want to do.
I'm sure you know what I want to do.
What Mel was getting all flack about the other night was primarily the Prisoner of War.
You know, there's so many things he said.
And he would withdraw all the time.
He would withdraw all the time.
I would have done the same thing with the Prisoner of War.
That's what we did then.
That's what we did then.
We would withdraw the time of the Prisoner of War before it passed.
But if you were sent to the state and they picked it up,
I always say that I would not make an irresponsible withdrawal in any withdrawal.
I mean, I would support an irresponsible withdrawal in any withdrawal.
I would give it to the county instead of the superintendent to take it home and tell them.
It's an irresponsible withdrawal.
That's the point.
When you see it filled up, you think it's a school thing.
and then of course further down the road see when we get down further in numbers
The deal that you make and the hold that you make, you make.
But if we get down, if we get down very far in the numbers, the revenue is going to depend on South Vietnam anyway.
Right, Henry?
Right now is a critical time.
Right now.
Now, the other, the other point that we've got so much discussion about is that
They'll come and die when there won't be a single American soldier left.
That's all I say tonight.
We'll help.
Total withdrawal of all arms.
I'm sure you know that I'm prepared to support you in Europe.
You are the flat-faced of the men.
We've had some skirmishes.
Our goal is a total withdrawal of all arms.
That means no resistance.
Except...
Of course, as I've said off and on, I don't repeat it, and I don't believe it.
Anybody who writes mine knows that you can't have a full withdrawal if they haven't heard it.
Our goal, we intend to have a full withdrawal.
With negotiations, it's possible.
and be in a relationship necessarily.
That's why it's a total withdrawal of our message.
That's what it is.
We have to know where to draw.
That means no residual time.
That's our goal.
I don't know, but they want to say cut off military aid.
Oh, we cut off the economic aid.
I understand.
But the danger is the greatest supporting force, I think, is the time when they're not going to be able to support the forces.
There won't be then.
See, this is going to be like Korea, Carlos.
I know how anxious you are in Korea.
We do not plan a reciprocal force.
You know, it makes sense.
It makes sense.
I should point out to you that the only time anybody would come up with a vision in terms of...
Let's assume that they refuse to negotiate securities, and we go that we have an elation contract, and we withdraw.
I can't withdraw everybody, and they withdraw before I'm in prison.
Something has to trade on that.
I think by that time, we'd better be ready on that deal, because they'll only have a hundred of them.
Yes, but you can't say it now, because if you do it now, for example, they'd say, well, we'll give you the prison if you withdraw at the end of this year.
All right, that's all the POW, but it would lose to the Appalachian.
But I'm glad you're going to say that there will be some control.
I hope you're going to say that although you and I are in a family of brothers and sisters, we have a day and a night.
I have a day and a night.
You have a day and a night.
I have a day and a night.
I love her.
I have a day and a night.
You have a day and a night.
You have a day and a night.
But I have a day and a night.
The day is close, though.
It's close because of the...
Now, uh, did you, uh, did you say anything about releasing the prisoners?
On our side?
Oh, we wouldn't say anything about releasing the prisoners.
Oh, sure.
Well, we, we just, all I did was just say that we should release both, if you'll name that.
So we vote, we vote ten times against anything.
We have dumped a few of them in, but Bob will try that and if there's a lot that won't go, then he's going to be the second to say, you know what, I'm going to pack up.
We've got 30, 30, you know, about what we can do there.
There's no way to know.
But them, they don't care, you see.
They don't care.
See, they still deny they're in South Vietnam.
They still deny it.
We thought that North South Vietnam, you know, showed up there.
Didn't mean it that way.
Would it not strengthen Europe?
Would it not make good psychology on our part?
We're going to Greece.
Greece.
That's what the other guy said.
I don't think there's probably any constraint on that.
I'm sure they'll admit that first time.
Depends on the world.
Well, let me consider that, Bob.
It's a good suggestion.
I don't think we're going to do that.
The other thought, may I respectfully say that I don't think we're going to do that.
I don't think we're going to do that.
I don't think we're going to do that.
We're going to maintain
I'm saying this in the sense of what I think is the structures of some of the measures.
Go here, if you will.
Mr. President, I think Scott's probably going to answer that as the South Sea of the East gets stronger, we still have a bargaining position with the North Sea of the East.
And I think in the long run, they would be much more likely to want to bargain with them than with us.
Yeah, and one of the reasons that you actually want to negotiate is one of the reasons the chances of it increasing.
It's our present peace.
They're going to get a hell of a bad deal from the software.
Like I said, it's a bad deal.
So that is an argument to see.
Whether it's going to be successful, I don't know.
But it's ironically a curious thing that the South Vietnamese get more strokes, we have less strokes.
And they just can't.
And when we leave, they'll have to continue these kind of duels on us.
I have to pray that I say this hopefully to help.
I pray for a future position.
If it is true that when we withdraw the greater difficulty, the greater problem, then I think we really understand ourselves.
If indeed it does pose a great problem, the greatest problem would be posed then when we went through it.
I would say that when we get to the point of the initiation of the Cold War, if we do negotiate with Russia, the United States will never negotiate with us.
They will never negotiate with us.
I'm not going to get crazy.
I do have a part of the responsibility that I didn't want told to some extent.
Are you going to say anything at all about withdrawing the child?
No.
I don't have to.
Now, let me tell you why that comes up.
It's part of the incident.
I am not mentioning the individual portion.
I'm not saying that we're going to keep on hurting people.
What I said before, that's all that's been mentioned in the ponderary.
So we reassure you that will not be in the way of that.
But on the pilot, I don't remember if we met pre-trial.
The United States has never worked with trees.
Now, we've had reasons to do our work, but I don't think we've done it often at the time.
We've always used something like a tree, but we've learned to stay with the color of the color.
The United States breaks the treaty.
We are going to be able to produce a lot of power around the world.
We'll come back in time if we should know.
We're cut back on it.
We cannot, of course, get a chance to do it.
I know some of the scientists and others, but they haven't looked at it.
See, they don't have any treatment stuff.
We're not on a different map.
We got it.
We got it.
It's like the Philippines.
We got treatment in the Philippines.
It's like Taiwan.
We got one in Taiwan.
We got one in Korea.
Hang on.
We've got treaties.
You can't talk very irresponsibly.
You can't talk responsibly and talk very strongly about, well, let's get out of these places.
You're right.
You're right.
You're right, Carl.
It's the thing you and I talked about.
You came back to prove it.
You're right.
You see, it's a different ballgame all the time.
South Vietnam is about getting out.
I mean, once you've taught them to walk, if they can't walk, that's their fault.
But we don't have treaties like that.
We're down, we're down 10,000.
My great thing about this is
They have very few.
The other point that I think of, and I agree with you, is that there are times when they are quite vulnerable for it.
You see, you see, because of what happened, and the pressure came down, and the pressure came down from the South Bay Mountains, and the catchers from the South Bay Mountains, the catchers, are weighed out for everyone.
But see, the other hand is going to take care of it.
Now, on Camp O'Neil, you can't guarantee they're going to succeed.
You know where you're looking.
We've got a maze where we can't tell if they're going to fight or not.
And we just hope that there's a miracle that will survive through here on.
And the other thing, we're having some trouble because we've got to be able to talk over that with them at any time.
You know, Camp O'Neil, they're never going to fight us.
I did all of that stuff.
all on the ground, and 75% of the air, only 20, we only had 25% of the air, they had died in Catalogia, cleaned up the Kjellstein Station, knocked off the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
But I do say that you are exactly right, that one of the benefits of law is to be able to do something tough and important for all of the men and women.
Well, I appreciate you all coming in.
As I say, I know you.
I know it's a long, hard way to say this.
I don't want to say it is.
I don't want to be flat.
You're out of the problem here.
I was a politician.
I would give this to my father.
I would give it to my mother.
I would give it to my father.
I would give it to my mother.
I would give it to my father.
The Congress has to take responsibility for those areas.
Well, I appreciate it, but you guys have been all quite funny.
I always say, Carl, I don't see how you did that.
I was really amazed that you were able to
I'm not sure if you knew what he was saying.
His, uh...
You and, uh, you and Carl.
And you and Carl, uh, worked out a way, you know, what we call a big 40.
I owe all of them to you.
You've seen what you've been sent to us and helped us.
You've been very strong.
Oh, I don't, I don't know.
is also in the presiding position in the House.
It's not true in the Senate.
Well, that'll have to be.
We'll have to do whatever we can.
You know what I mean?
If we don't have to, it's because the House won't let us.
I can see you're likely to press the box.
That's what I heard.
I can see you're likely to press the box.
That's what I heard.
Oh, you know that?
Sure, sure, sure.
Although Blair is supposed to call armed service people, Roger is supposed to call for it.
You call it what you want.
I can call it what I want.
We've got to figure it out.
We've got to figure it out.
You're doing fine.
Fine work last week.
That was really great.
Oh yeah, fine, fine.
That's good.
Okay, thanks Clark.