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Conversation 293-015

TapeTape 293StartWednesday, November 17, 1971 at 5:23 PMEndWednesday, November 17, 1971 at 5:25 PMTape start time01:17:35Tape end time01:20:40ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Ehrlichman, John D.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building
AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discuss the political challenges of advancing welfare reform, specifically addressing concerns raised by Governor Ronald Reagan regarding rising costs. The pair strategizes on how to handle Senator Charles Percy's involvement and reconcile the conflicting interests of Republican governors like Nelson Rockefeller. Nixon ultimately instructs Ehrlichman to proceed with managing these legislative hurdles despite the difficult political landscape.

Welfare reformRonald ReaganNelson RockefellerCharles PercyLegislative strategyPolitical maneuvers
AudioNARA Description

On November 17, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:23 pm to 5:25 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 293-015 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 293-15

Date: November 17, 1971
Time: 5:23 pm - 5:25 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.

[See Conversation No. 15-4]
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hi, John.
How are you getting along on that, uh, uh, Percy matter now?
All right.
I think, of course, it does not mean, in my opinion, that we put this in a budget necessarily.
I do agree.
Because we can still go forward with our, well, that's the only thing that's concerning after I talk to you, that we haven't, I don't want to, in person, say that we haven't changed our, one of our major post-mortem, post-mortem welfare reform because of the need to implement it and so forth.
But,
But they're supportive of that.
Good deal.
That's good.
Well, I think it's the less of the two bad choices.
Yeah, well, it really gets down to the fact that there's a chance of meeting one and a damn little chance of meeting the other, as I consider it.
Because even though we have both governors, one of the big governors is President Rockefeller on our side, he's sure to agree.
One's the principal, the other is well-holden principal on Rockefeller's side.
He just believes that this is the same crap that we share.
And it does.
Doesn't that get his argument?
Well, Reagan's argument is not that great.
His argument is that it's going to mean an escalation of welfare costs.
And he's dead right about that.
It puts it on the top.
God damn, that Percyford coming up was such a horrible man.
Well, I suppose it's because of how old he was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I must say, it was...
The whole movie thing was, now go ahead and try to help him with these.
All right.
I gave him his nickels and dimes.
Yeah.
That's the hell I helped.
Let's see, what the hell is he screaming about?
Go ahead.
But nobody feels pretty good, we should.
Yeah, but she's gonna be able to survive.
Okay, Tom, thank you.
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