Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 293 › Conversation 293-015

Nixon & Ehrlichman on Welfare reform and Ronald Reagan

Wednesday, November 17, 1971 · 5:23 PM–5:25 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 3 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation293-015 on Tape 293 (tape position 01:17:35–01:20:40)StartWednesday, November 17, 1971 at 5:23 PMEndWednesday, November 17, 1971 at 5:25 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 293-015 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discuss the political challenges of advancing welfare reform, specifically addressing concerns raised by Governor Ronald Reagan regarding rising costs. The pair strategizes on how to handle Senator Charles Percy's involvement and reconcile the conflicting interests of Republican governors like Nelson Rockefeller. Nixon ultimately instructs Ehrlichman to proceed with managing these legislative hurdles despite the difficult political landscape.

Audio

Download MP3 · 2.9 MB

This clip was extracted from the full tape recording by Easy Nixon.

Listen to the full tape segment

Position in tape: 01:17:35 – 01:20:40

293a.mp3
293b.mp3

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Hi, John.
How are you getting along on that, uh, uh, person matter now?
All right.
I think, of course, it does not mean, in my opinion, that we put this in a budget necessarily.
Would you agree?
Because we can still go forward with our... Well, that's the only thing that's concerning after I talk to you, that we haven't...
I don't want to, per se, say that we haven't changed our... one of our major post-mortem... post-mortem welfare reform because of the... so forth, but...
but they're supportive of that.
Good deal.
That's good.
Well, I think it's the less of the two bad choices.
Yeah, well, we really got stoned by the fact that there's a chance of meeting one and a damn little chance of meeting the other, as I consider it.
Because even though we have both governors, and the big governor is President Rockefeller on our side, he sure doesn't agree with one principle or the other.
Well, both principles are on Rockefeller.
He just believes that this is the same crap that we share.
And it does.
Isn't that his argument?
Well, Reagan's argument is not that great.
His argument is that it's going to mean an escalation of welfare costs.
And he's dead right about that.
It puts it on the top.
God damn, that Percifer coming up was such a horrible mess.
Well, I suppose it's because he's trying to help older people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I must say, it was...
on the Ogilvy thing where we now go ahead and try to help him with these.
I gave him his nickels and dimes.
What the hell is he screaming about?
But she feels pretty good, we should.
She's gonna be able to survive.
Okay, Tom, thank you.

NARA Description

On November 17, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:23 pm to 5:25 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 293-015 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 293-15

Date: November 17, 1971
Time: 5:23 pm - 5:25 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.

[See Conversation No. 15-4]

Also recorded on November 17, 1971

  • 015-003 4:00 PM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:00 pm and 5:23 pm.
  • 293-010 4:00 PM · 29 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 4:00 pm and 5:23 pm.
  • 015-004 5:23 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 5:23 pm to 5:25 pm.
  • 293-016 5:25 PM · 24 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:25 pm and 5:44 pm.
  • 293-017 5:25 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:25 pm and 5:44 pm.
  • 293-018 5:25 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:25 pm and 5:44 pm.
  • 293-019 5:25 PM · 54 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:25 pm and 5:44 pm.
  • 015-005 5:44 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:44 pm and 7:14 pm.

All 66 conversations from November 17, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 293-015, November 17, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/293-015 (accessed October 25, 2026).