On April 5, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, White House operator, Henry A. Kissinger, and Adm. Thomas H. Moorer met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:16 am to 9:55 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 330-007 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Well, that's a warning report.
Weather is still bad.
We've been most tracking about it.
It's being destroyed.
It's not going to clean again.
Destroyed machines.
No, no, no.
Of course, lead was lying.
I think it's more a case, Henry, that I think you're right.
Laird is being led by a smart man in his office.
Personally, that's his comment.
Personally, it probably tells you that.
Personally, it's
I didn't think it was you, though.
No, no, well, they meant it.
I know what happened.
I told you that we knocked out some tax-protected gunmen, and then you ordered more citizens in.
And then you spoke back and had our letter and said, I mean it, I don't want more citizens.
Now that's their thing.
Hold it.
Hold it.
And that's...
It's all something to the effect of
We haven't lost any.
We lost several, the first two dead.
We have not lost one in the last three days.
We lost two and then we sacrificed them.
What about the report of crossing the river?
They crossed the river.
They crossed it with these little tanks that they had in Laos last year.
And they have the bridgeheader, and they find it back.
We have any further reports?
That is not the river that we talked about.
That's not the area.
Maybe because that's close to the coast.
And I think we have to do something to fix it up to that.
When Boris made his statement, it seemed to me that we were developing an institution.
They're not attacking the country from the north, from the river.
They're going around, they're hitting it from the south.
We notified April something yesterday, and he's on an inspection trip.
He's gone out on an inspection trip.
What I wanted was to go to the distance.
They have a new Air Force command on there with a gun.
Charlie Hogan put me in, put me aside after the briefing this morning, and said he has to tell me as a friend that he believes that it is not run-and-run.
And they've just replaced one Air Force command at normal rotation.
The guy they sent out is an R&D guy.
I don't give him a star, and I don't give him a star.
But I think we ought to order them to put either folk down there for a general play, who was just out there, who knows how it was.
And unless we do something drastic, I'm afraid now, yesterday they drew only 12 pieces.
Why?
Because it would give me a big mismatch in the story that the cloud cover is so high that the electronic counter at this place
Don't have enough maneuvering tools.
Every day they have a different excuse.
There's a bomb.
We're going to have to be knowing.
I believe we have to get a copy of the airplane.
Then I'm going to talk to the weather person.
They're probably going to get commanded.
But god damn, isn't something here a little bit...
Mr. President, when Patton had moved, according to their principles, to battle at the foe, some people wanted to, he'd still be, if he would have come there four days later, too late to check the battle.
They're not doing anything down here, they're all, they have yet to do an imaginative thing.
Mort, Admiral Mort, please.
Oh, ja.
And muskies.
And muskies, ja.
That means let it fall.
That means let it fall.
You see, that's why we have to do it until it's goddamn fast on the screen.
That's right, that's right.
I understand.
Well, to fly on the APBs, which they have a great technical story, but a daring commander would have had them out then.
143 tactical airstrikes.
They had, there's another attack developing in a third corps.
And, you know, they had to do this.
So, they had to do this.
They had to do this.
They had to do this.
They had to do this.
Oh, yes, that's good.
I mean, that's not good.
He called back.
He gave the call.
I'm here with the president.
He hasn't called back.
I'm here with the president.
Regretfully, he wants the best air commander with experience out there.
He's replacing the air commander.
Don't screw up.
That's what you do.
Who is it?
You mean Clay?
Yeah, I don't know what he meant.
Clay just was out there.
He says he doesn't want to be experienced.
Clay says he doesn't want to be experienced.
Oh, I can tell you that.
Yeah.
Just say, I think we need an experienced air commander out there as fast as we can get him.
And I can support that.
I haven't got that authority, but I'm going to call him.
I'm back.
He, uh...
Listen, I told Moore with his face that Abrams had screwed up Blouse, and he knows he screwed up Blouse.
Rush told me yesterday that Moore repented, and said that he recommends against Abrams to be made chief of staff at the office, that the only man for him is his leg.
So he's all right.
We're done.
I'm sitting here with the president as we were going over the briefing that both gave us this morning.
Well, it was very well done.
But the concern that the president has is whether we don't really need it.
The president raised the point that he wants an experience there.
We understand you've got a new guy out there now.
Yeah, but he's got no experience with this.
We've got all our shit driving on this.
That's right.
Thank you very much.
We would like a recommendation, the president would like a recommendation by noon, of who the best man would be who could take this battle over now, during this offensive.
We are determined to get bigger into this campaign and get the most experienced men and ladies that we could get played back out there.
We were delighted with what the destroyers are doing very quickly.
And if we can't, I'll step out and be 52 strikes, as the little words of the day come flying through the wind.
He explained the Iron Man.
Yeah, he explained that, Tom.
Hello, Tom.
Say, Tom, the thing I want you to do.
Now, on the B-52 mission, there had, for psychological reasons,
Now, let's forget the cloud cover and all the rest and so forth and all that.
Have them fly at 95,000 or 110,000 feet.
Drop their goddamn bombs and boom, drop them.
Let's get them from, yeah, I want a hell of a lot of sergeants blown by B-52s today.
Is that clear?
Get those B-52s flying.
Now, at least let them do it around the main tree area.
That's open, isn't it?
Yes, yes, I know they have it.
All right.
I don't want to see another report with 16 sorties of a diva to do.
I want the enemy to know that we're really letting them have it.
So get them in there.
We've got to have it for psychological reasons.
We can't have this, what appears to be a pusillanimous effort.
I know that there are brave men out there at risk in their lives, they're fighting and all that sort of thing.
But up to this point, you know, and I know, I know the reason it's weather, and there are technical reasons, and this and that and the other, but we have to have some sort of massive strike in the next 12 hours, 24 hours.
You see what I mean?
We've just got to have one.
And it doesn't have to be in that area of the valley.
Put the damn thing down on the V-tree, or put the 52s in there, and just knock to the future sun.
You'll hit something.
You just got to do it.
Maybe out there is the next month, or two months from now.
How long does it take to fly?
Yeah, okay.
Wow.
Okay, now, I'm commander, I've got to get the most experienced of commanders, not as an observer, but in charge.
Now, let me say, let me say, I've studied warfare enough to know this is the hardest thing to do.
But more wars have been lost by not changing commanders than changing them.
And you've got to have the most experienced, and also a fellow with imagination and vertigo, who takes the orders of getting the hell out there as fast as he can.
And ours has been outplayed.
Okay?
All right, you give us the name by doing it, will you?
All right.
You see, they...
I don't know.
I looked at the goddamn plots.
They blew the B-52s.
They just had...
They dropped some in the Chicago area.
That was last year's time.
They had four stories in the B-3 area.
It was just about city.
But they sent out a boat for flag hunting, and then they...
They are hanging on the gunfire now 24 hours a day, so they can put on good pictures.
They have the rule 1 on the 24-hour gunfire now.
Even if they don't hit a great deal, it forces them to slow up.
It's bad for their morale.
I can only tell you that that's what they started to reason with this morning.
And once the weather clears and it starts getting more accurate,
Oh, that naval gunfire.
That naval gunfire.
It's the most precise thing I've ever heard of.
It's a naval missile.
And what was really interesting after the speaking, you guys were there yesterday, I asked them to come into the job, they can cover all the route lines, all the way down to the neck.
There's no thought of movement other than to carve them around.
I heard Saul's story, which I liked, both about the Jekyll and also something about his family, and Saul and Stanley, and a lot of things, in fact, that I consider thanks.
That may be... Are they in a heart of panic?
Are they not?
Well, Mr. President... Now, some people always panic, you know, and I hear that a lot.
But, yes, I would need to know the truth.
Listen, for me, you'll have a better record of the content of the event than the kids back from the battle, I guess.
The news stories are mixed.
The news stories aren't so bad.
Why is it?
I don't know.
Because at this time they can't say it's a guerrilla war.
They can't say it's an emergency.
And I noticed some news stories.
I read a news summary or something that I was saying.
This is what the operation laws prevented last year.
I don't know if you saw that.
But I know it's true.
It's true, but the news stories are now saying that these are massive invasions.
And that's what we've predicted.
I think it is.
Any more that they can claim, either we will make this case, or if they can't claim this is a good level, or they can't claim this is a civil war.
The bags we have turned on, just like we expected, and the force on them will eventually be off in China in days to come.
It's just that they can't do this.
No, I'd rather have them off there.
It's alright, they're going to do it, and we're going to have them here.
I still think that this can be the conclusion of the work that we can ever do to them, what we're capable of doing.
They all say that the weather figured it was live.
Oh, yeah.
The tragedy is that here we are.
They're already open.
It would be like shooting guns.
But they've got to stay open, you know, so they can't go away.
We've just had to open it ourselves in an eastern home.
I don't know where they're going.
It's pretty sad weather tonight.
This is what you need to do when the weather is going to break something.
I'm not going to do an entire little letter to open your mouth.
We'll find out after that.
We'll work out the, let me work out the tape situation and something else, and then let the chief serve the army in front of us, and we've got to get the army shaken up.
I think we need to get the airport shaken up.
I have no idea who should be the commander of the airport.
I think if you like, somebody should go up and shoot him.
Oh, God, no, no, you guys are not right.
He doesn't have to be, well...
He's got brains, but he doesn't have the strategic concept.
Correct.
He's a decent guy, but I don't think he can do that.
For the Omni, my recommendation would be Davidson.
And, hey, just provide a pen.
He doesn't mortar always through the blouse, or does he?
No.
He sat there and braved us all the way through.
It was the same thing.
It was the same day in and day out.
They've got the extra 70 crew, uh, Air Force out there.
You, uh, you've got the destroyers out there.
You've ordered the B-52s out there.
You've ordered the extra carrier out there.
And, uh, it's just not an aggressive command.
I've spoken more of Cordei, but I've asked him yesterday when they received it.
You know, he said the staff, uh, he said three days ago.
But...
Any series of the matter of this, which you've been boosting and pulling and busting and ordering, ordering, can we do that?
I need a report from that.
What the church today was doing, saying, oh, it's their job, you know.
I don't mind that.
Let me tell you, I'm not discouraged, though.
I'm not discouraged.
Watch.
Watch.
I hope.
You've got to remember, once action begins, then all doubts must leave.
You must just go, and by God, if we've decided what we're going to do, if it doesn't work, then we'll have to take on hand.
I'm just...
And I left those streams and they got them, and so we're not going to lose this war.
I'm not discouraged.
I've been horribly frustrated.
I think we can break it open.
I think that they make a mistake.
Everything we want to go, we've done it, and it's a sign.
In a way, it's a sign of prosperity.
Secondly, I've come to the conclusion that Moscow must be the center of this war.
This is a power plant for the muskite.
Because here on the muskite, I know the muskite is over the muskite, but here, this in a way is the oil, this is between the oil and the air for the muskite.
Because here, Moscow has to risk everything.
All its relations with us.
For what?
I mean, what can Moscow ask us to get out of it?
If we get run out of it, it starts being... Well, this will tell us a lot about Moscow.
Because Moscow is willing to risk everything.
Having just been defeated, it would be a time you can't come back from Moscow, having made another deal.
So, if whatever they wanted to get out of this, something they cannot have, if Hanoi does, so in a way this is a power... What power in the world is more or less right?
I guess.
I think there's too some in Campo here than there's too some in...
I kept it, but they did fly about 40 areas altogether, but only 16 in the battle area.
Now the excuse they give you in the battle area is that there's nothing planned.
Keep the ceiling of 5,000 feet, 6,000 feet, on top of the highest clouds.
The clouds are 30,000 feet up, and these other planes can't get more than...
I haven't got a seat that can fix this stuff.
But that's all for now.
If Russia, they can't cut it, that's fine.
And just because they don't want to take action, I think that's not a problem.
We're not going to do it, right?
We should do it.
If we get booked for a flight, and they have flights or not,
Well, they're writing it to a certain extent that it doesn't really work.
I think we've actually learned an error.
It's more or less whatever we said we could.
We didn't say no all along.
On the other hand, we've got to get back to one that's one of the reasons why negotiations are very close to this.
Certainly, I don't think we've been appropriating a lot of this as we've been hoping since this time.
I should go for it.
He has done it.
Well, I think he's done everything to take the instinct.
And in fact, the way that he has done it, the way that he has done it, I don't know why he did it.
I don't know why he didn't walk out.
It makes it very clear to see it.
The enemy was pretty much here.
He was sitting there talking and attacking.
Vi hadt skuldersikret rettogående.
Vi gudt trækt og sett at det sikkert hevde nevnt det.
Men hest nevnt den gud?
Tremendus effekt.
Mr. President, after the election, vi gjorda bedre stånd.
Vi gudt tre gudt i stedet.
Vi nevnt vi gudt.
Vi nevnt vi gudt.
Vi nevnt vi gudt.
Vi nevnt vi gudt.
Vi nevnt vi gudt.
I think if you have a good strong, and a man who will be totally loyal to you, you need a secretary who's oriented towards you.
The secretary, yes.
The secretary has to be your man.
The department has to know that
He is there as your man.
Not their man, he's of the you.
But he's your man, he's of the you.
That's what I'm trying to say.
That's what I'm trying to say.
That's what I'm trying to say.
That's what I'm trying to say.
That's what I'm trying to say.
That's what I'm trying to say.
That's what I'm trying to say.
And of course, you may not have known what we wanted them to do, but now you know how to have these types of facilities.
You might see the letters go to me, to the heads of government, to the states, to the government, to the government, to the government, to the government.
Thank you, sir.
I don't think I'm going to know if this thing is going to work.
I don't see that I can sit on it for a minute.
Look, there couldn't be a better scenario for the game.
I would let them know right now, sort of.
Hey, I hope I should have my headache, and I've seen everything, so that I won't have to be involved at all, and I'm not going to do it.
I'm not going to do it, because I don't want to be in the back of your house this time.
It is a sad reason, because I don't want to do it, and I'm not going to do it.
I'm not going to do it, because I don't want to be in the back of your house this time.
Well, maybe tomorrow.
Maybe tomorrow or today.
I'm afraid something's not happening.
I can't believe it.
People are that strong.
They can't be.
They can't be.
They have Mr. President.
They have no idea who.
And they can't believe the way we are.
Now, you have both ignored my head.
What about the
My instinct, Mr. President, is to forget the two or three weeks of the other, and then wind it up with my thoughts.
Do you consider this to agree with this kind of stuff we're doing now?
No, it will be me, Mr. President.
No, that's what I'm saying.
Do you consider we're doing that now?
No, we're not doing that now.
Do I understand that there wasn't always a need to turn all of that?
No, I didn't.
Yes, always.
All the way along with my thoughts.
We're still gonna win it, you know.
Oh yeah, don't we?