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Conversation: 388-008

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Start Date: 8-Nov-1972 2:05 PM

End Date: 8-Nov-1972 3:28 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Colson, Charles W.[Unknown person(s)]Butterfield, Alexander P.White House operatorBull, Stephen B.Finch, Robert H.Sanchez, Manolo

Recording Device: Old Executive Office Building

388-008a.mp3

388-008b.mp3

388-008c.mp3

NARA Description:

On November 8, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, unknown person(s), Alexander P. Butterfield, White House operator, Stephen B. Bull, Robert H. Finch, and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:05 pm and 3:28 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 388-008 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 388-8

Date: November 8, 1972
Time: 2:05 pm- unknown before 3:28 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Charles W. Colson.

       The President’s schedule
            -Dr. William O. Chase
                  -The President’s recent trip to office
                  -The President’s forthcoming trip to office
                         -Timing


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                                                      - 30 -

                                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                              Tape Subject Log
                                                (rev. June-07)

                                                                             Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 20s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
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        1972 election
             -Results
                    -Percentages
                    -Unreported count
                    -Vote count
                          -Majority
                                -Compared to 1964 election
                                      -Barry M. Goldwater
                                      -Number of votes
                                -Size
                                      -Compared to past elections
                    -Percentages
                          -Compared to 1964 election
                                -Lyndon B. Johnson
                    -Margin of victory
                    -George S. McGovern’s vote
                          -Percentage
                    -Georgia
                    -Connecticut
                    -Colorado
                    -California
                          -Votes
                          -Predictions
                          -Margin
                                -John G. Schmitz
                    -Massachusetts
                          -Peace vote
                          -Watergate
                          -Areas lost
                                             - 31 -

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. June-07)

                                                                 Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 2:05 pm.

       Possible statement by the President
             -US News and World Report
             -Frederic V. Malek
             -Length
                   -Raymond K. Price, Jr.

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 2:15 pm.

       1972 election
            -The President’s victory
                   -Significance
                   -Size of majority
                   -Percentage lead
                         -Johnson’s victory
            -Third party candidate
            -George C. Wallace
                   -South
                   -Social issue
            -Republican National Committee
                   -Complaints
                         -Reform
                               -Timing
            -The President’s victory
                   -Significance
            -Republican Party
                   -Complaints
                         -Robert J. Dole
                         -Peter H. Domenici
                         -Robert C. (“Bob”) Wilson
                   -The President’s support for candidates
                   -Dwight D. Eisenhower’s efforts
                         -Compared to the President’s efforts
                   -Problems
                   -Desmond J. Barker, Jr.’s view
                         -Rocky Mountain states
                         -Gordon L. Allott
                               -Problems
                                     -New type of conservative
                                                - 32 -

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. June-07)

                                                              Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

                                          -Independence
                                          -Midwest
                                          -Colorado
                   -Robert H. Finch
                         -Rally
                   -Jack Miller
                         -Loss
                               -Earl L. Butz
                   -J. Caleb Boggs
                         -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew’s presence
                         -Visit by the President
                               -Wilmington
                               -1970 campaign
                   -The President’s support
                         -Middle America
                         -Old Eastern Establishment
                               -Value system
                         -Republican Party

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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Alexander P. Butterfield entered at 2:15 P.M.

       Mail
              -Disposition
                    -“FYIs”
                    -The President’s schedule
                          -Florida
              -Telephone calls
                    -Messages
                    -The President’s workload

       Winston S. Churchill
            -Biography by Peter de Mendelssohn [The Age of Churchill]
                  -Library of Congress
                  -Delivery to the President in Florida

       Edward R.G. Heath
                                              - 33 -

                               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. June-07)

                                                             Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

              -Telephone call to the President
                    -Forthcoming call to the President
                          -Timing
                          -The President’s schedule
                                -Chase

The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 2:15 pm and
2:18 pm.

[Conversation No. 388-8A]

[See Conversation No. 33-71]

[End of telephone conversation]

Butterfield left at 2:18 pm.


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[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       1972 election
            -The President’s strategy
                   -Visits to states
                         -Value
                                -House of Representatives
                                -Senate
            -Results
                   -Mandate for President
                   -New constituency
                   -Significance
                         -Comparison to Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1932
                         -Eastern Establishment
                         -Congress
            -[American Party] “Birchers”
                   -Washington state
                   -Utah
                   -Oregon
                   -California
                   -Alaska
                                                - 34 -

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. June-07)

                                                            Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

             -California
             -New York
             -Ohio
                    -Ray C. Bliss
                    -Margin of votes
             -Illinois
             -Indiana
             -Florida
                    -Margin
             -Michigan
                    -Results
                         -The President’s supporters
                                -Busing issue
                                -Paul Hall’s efforts
             -Voting analysis
             -Charles H. Percy
                    -McGovern [?]
             -Illinois
                    -Richard B. Ogilvie
             -The President’s campaign
                    -Support for other candidates

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 2:18 pm.

       Robert H. Finch
            -Location
            -The President's forthcoming telephone call
            -Office location
                  -West Wing
            -Meeting with the President
                  -Timing

Bull left at an unknown time before 2:35 p.m.


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                                               - 35 -

                              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                         Tape Subject Log
                                           (rev. June-07)

                                                               Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       1972 election
            -Ticket splitting
                   -Colson’s recent conversation with Elliot L. Richardson
                         -Massachusetts
            -Providence, Rhode Island
                   -The President’s attendance at rally
                         -Herbert F. DeSimone
                         -John H. Chafee
                                -Crowd response
                                -New Majority
            -Republican Senators
                   -Clifford P. Case
                   -Edward W. Brooke
                   -Percy
                   -New Majority

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 2:18 pm and
2:35 pm.

[Conversation No. 388-8B]

[See Conversation No. 33-72]

       Heath
               -Location
                    -Buckingham Palace
               -The President's possible telephone call

       World leaders
            -Congratulations
                  -Publicity
                        -Ronald L. Ziegler
                        -Importance
                                            - 36 -

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. June-07)

                                                              Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

      1972 election
           -The President’s victory
                  -McGovern
                  -World leaders
                  -Dole
                  -Significance
                  -Margin of victory
                         -Number of states
                         -Number of votes
                         -Percentages
                         -Compared to 1964 election
                         -Compared to 1936 election
                               -Roosevelt
                         -Compared to 1964 election
                               -Johnson
                               -Number of states
           -Media commentary
                  -McGovern
                         -Collapse of Democratic Party Coalition
                               -1932 election
                               -Desertions
                                      -Urban dwellers
                                      -Blue collar workers
                                      -Catholics
                               -Remnants
                                      -Blacks
                                      -Jews
                                            -Interests
           -The President’s victory
                  -Control of political machine
                  -Institutionalization
                  -Peace
                  -Compared to 1936 election
                         -Roosevelt
                               -Congressional victories
                  -Executive power
                                           - 37 -

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. June-07)

                                                            Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

                      -Conflict with Congress
                            -Strict construction
                -Republican Party
           -House of Representatives races
                -Net gains
                -Wilson
                -Problems
                      -Candidates
                -Final figures
                      -1968 election
                -Problems
                      -Candidates

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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      Watergate
           -Post 1972 election period
                 -Edward M. Kennedy investigation
                 -Congress
                 -Possible public perception
                 -Possible effect
                       -Democratic Party


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

      1972 election
           -McGovern and R. Sargent Shriver
                  -Message to the President
                       -Response
                             -Patrick J. Buchanan draft
                             -Price’s draft
                             -The President’s revision
                                   -Wording
                                          -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
                                          -Eleanor (Stegeburg) McGovern
                                          -Rest
                                             - 38 -

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. June-07)

                                                              Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

                   -Cooperation
             -The President’s victory
                   -Public confidence
             -Press and media relations
                   -Washington Post
                   -Columbia Broadcast System [CBS]
                   -Contacts
                         -CBS
                               -Telephone calls
                               -Walter L. Cronkite, Jr.
                   -Predictions
                         -Mistakes
                               -McGovern
                         -Issues
                               -Watergate and peace
                                     -Massachusetts
                                     -Importance

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 2:18 pm.

       The President’s schedule
            -Meeting with Finch

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 2:35 pm.


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       1972 election
            -Watergate issue
            -Economic issue
                   -McGovern’s handling

Finch entered at 2:35 pm.
                                      - 39 -

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. June-07)

                                                         Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

Greetings

1972 election
     -The President’s victory
            -Majority
                  -Voter turnout
                  -Size
                  -Percentage
                        -Compared to 1964 election
                              -Johnson
                        -American Party
                              -“Bircher” [John G. Schmitz]
                                    -Votes in California
                                    -National vote
                                    -Utah
                                    -Washington state
                                    -Wisconsin
                                          -Joseph McCarthy
                                    -Montana
                                    -Louisiana
                                    -Idaho
                                          -Radical right strength
     -Peace issue
            -McGovern’s handling
                  -Massachusetts
                        -Watergate
            -National impact
     -Finch’s assessment
            -California
     -Finch’s schedule
            -Television [TV]
     -Election night calls
            -John B. Connally
            -Frank L. Rizzo
                  -Milton S. Shapp
            -Nelson A. Rockefeller
                  -Mood
                  -Sportmanship
                        -1960, 1964, 1968 nominations
     -California
                                - 40 -

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                         Tape Subject Log
                           (rev. June-07)

                                                   Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

     -Republican Party candidates
            -Finch’s assessment
     -The President’s efforts
            -Fundraising dinners
            -Ontario
                  -Endorsements
            -Ronald W. Reagan
                  -Complaints
                  -Organization
     -State legislature
            -Problems
                  -Charles Conrad
                  -Voter registration
                  -Democrats well organized
                  -Reagan
                  -Conrad
                  -[First Name Unknown] Campell
                  -Unknown person
                  -San Diego seats
                         -Unknown people
     -Republican Party
            -Decline in apparatus
     -Pete Wilson
-Media relations
     -Networks
            -Herbert G. Klein
            -John A. Scali
            -Unknown TV commentator
-Republican losses
     -Complaints
     -California
     -The President’s assistance with fundraising
     -Bob Wilson
            -Replacement
     -Campaign expenditures in 1971
            -H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
            -Areas of expenditure
                  -Publicity, research, policy committees
-Republican Party
     -National Chairman
                                                      - 41 -

                                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                              Tape Subject Log
                                                (rev. June-07)

                                                                             Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

                           -The President’s conversation with C. Moley
                       -Name change
                           -South

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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        Colson
             -Vacation plans
                  -Family
                        -Boston


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[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

        1972 election
             -Massachusetts
                    -Tricia Nixon Cox
                    -Julie Nixon Eisenhower
                           -Smith College
                    -[Dwight] David Eisenhower II
                           -Amherst College
                    -Edward R.F. Cox
                           -Harvard University

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 9
[Deed of gift – Privacy]
[Duration: 3s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 9
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[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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        Second term reorganization
                                           - 42 -

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. June-07)

                                                               Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

             -The President’s opponents
                  -Harvard University
                  -Massachusetts Institute of Technology [MIT]
                        -Exception
                               -John F. Collins

       Colson’s schedule

       Second term reorganization
            -Appointments
                  -Ethnic groups
                        -Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans
            -Department of Labor
                  -Labor leader
                        -Compared to Commerce Department
                               -Businessman
                        -James D. Hodgson
                        -Agreement
                               -George Meany
                               -Frank E. Fitzsimmons
                               -Paul Hall
                               -Abraham A. Ribicoff
                        -Requirement
                               -Political ability
                        -Hall
                               -Indictment
                               -The President’s view
                               -Compared to Meany
                                      -Education
                               -Personality

       Press relations
             -Colson’s forthcoming speech to New England newspaper editors
                    -Washington Post
             -1972 election
                    -Washington Post
                         -George S. McGovern
                              -Washington, DC

Colson left at 2:50 pm.
                                             - 43 -

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. June-07)

                                                             Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)



****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       1974 election
            -Republican Party
                   -California
                         -Finch’s political plans
                               -Governorship
                               -Senate
                               -Decision
                               -The President’s recommendations
                               -Senate
                                     -Alan Cranston
                               -Governorship
                                     -Polls
                                            -Cranston
                                            -Reagan
                               -Congressional delegation

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 2:50 pm.

       Refreshments

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 3:00 pm.

       1972 election
            -Press relations
                   -Los Angeles Times

       Norman Chandler
           -Health
                 -Rose Mary Woods
                 -Cancer
                       -James S. Copley
                                           - 44 -

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. June-07)

                                                             Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

                      -Leukemia
                      -Effect on speaking ability
                 -1972 election
                      -Notes
                      -Possible telephone call from the President
                             -Gratitude for support


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

      1972 election
           -California
                  -The President’s supporters
                       -Reaction
                              -Republican Party
                  -Reagan
                       -Relations with the President
                       -H. R. 1
                              -Family Assistance Plan [FAP]
                                    -Reagan’s telephone call to John D. Ehrlichman
                       -Intelligence
                       -Henry Salvatori
                       -1976 primaries
                              -Agnew

      1976 campaign
           -Connally
           -Reagan
           -Agnew
                -Compared to Reagan
                -Primaries
                -Percy
           -Reagan
                -Salvatori
                -Senate
                -Age
                -Experience in foreign policy
                      -Trips for the President
                                       - 45 -

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. June-07)

                                                         Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

Finch’s political plans
     -California
            -Timing
            -Fundraising
            -Edward W. Carter
            -David Packard
                   -Sponsored dinner
                          -Californians in the White House
                                -Haldeman
                                -Finch
                                -Klein
                                -The President’s role
            -Campaign organization
                   -Polls
            -Klein
                   -Shriver
                   -Jack J. Valenti
                   -James S. Copley
                   -Gordon Luce
                   -Valenti
            -Republican Party
     -Choice of office
            -Governorship
                   -John V. Tunney
     -Democrats
            -Candidates
                   -Divisions
                          -Bob Moretti
                          -Joseph Alioto
                          -George Moscone
                          -Jerome R. Waldie
                          -Edmund G. Brown, Jr.
     -Senate seats
            -Democrat control
            -Cranston
            -Shriver, Tunney
            -Minorities
            -Finch
                   -Money
                   -Pace
                                     - 46 -

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. June-07)

                                                   Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

      -Governorship
           -Edwin Reinecke
                  -Otis Chander
                  -Survey
                         -Finch
                  -Intelligence
                  -Polls
                         -Republicans
           -Polls
      -Senate race
           -Cranston
                  -Houston Flournoy
                  -Barry M. Goldwater, Jr.
                  -Robert B. Mathias
                  -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger

1976 campaign
     -John N. Mitchell
     -Rockefeller
           -Reagan
           -Governorship
           -Theodore H. (“Teddy”) White’s view
           -Agnew
           -Reagan
           -Percy
           -Reagan
           -Age
                 -Reagan
                 -Benjamin Disraeli

1972 election
     -Youth vote
     -Hispanic vote
            -New York
                 -Puerto Rico
            -Chicanos
            -Cubans
            -Texans

Finch’s political plans
                                            - 47 -

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. June-07)

                                                               Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

           -Constituents
                -Jews
                -New Majority
                      -Labor
                           -International Brotherhood of Teamsters
                           -Building trades
                      -Catholics
                      -Democrats

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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      Issues
            -Ratios
                  -Capital punishment
                        -Ziegler’s conversation with the President
                  -Marijuana
                  -Busing

      Second term reorganization
           -Resignations
                 -Handling
                       -California
                       -White House
                       -Tone
                       -Letters
                       -Recent Cabinet meeting
                             -William P. Rogers
                       -Tone
                 -Extent
                       -Lyndon B. Johnson, John F. Kennedy holdovers
                 -Budget considerations
                       -Finch’s conversation with Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger and George
                       P. Schultz
                             -Reduction in Force [RIF]
                 -Recent Cabinet meeting
                       -Timing
                             -Unknown person’s view
                       -Cabinet
                                            - 48 -

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. June-07)

                                                             Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

                               -Work in 1972
                         -Post-meeting conversation
                               -Tone
             -Cabinet
                  -Forthcoming meetings with the President

The President talked with Edward Heath between 3:08 pm and 3:11 pm.

[Conversation No. 388-8C]

[See Conversation No. 33-73]

[End of telephone conversation]


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       1972 election
            -The President’s victory
                   -Impact on world leaders
                   -Johnson 1964 victory
                        -Political problems
                               -Great Society
                               -Vietnam War
                        -Johnson’s attitude
            -The President’s visit
                   -Shoreham Hotel
                   -Oval Office
                        -Contrast to McGovern
                        -Symbolism

       Finch’s political plans
            -California
                   -Decision
                   -Timing

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
                                                      - 49 -

                                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                              Tape Subject Log
                                                (rev. June-07)

                                                                             Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)


        Second term reorganization
             -Cabinet resignations
                   -Timing
                         -George W. Romney’s concern
                   -Romney, John A. Volpe
                   -Duration of service
                   -State government
                   -Dwight Eisenhower Cabinet
                   -Franklin D. Roosevelt
                   -Eisenhower
                         -Arthur Summerfield, George T. Humphrey


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 15
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 12s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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        Finch’s political plans
             -Scenario
                    -Finch’s effort


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

        Finch’s political plans
             -Scenario
             -California
                                    - 50 -

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                             Tape Subject Log
                               (rev. June-07)

                                                     Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

           -Timing
           -White House staff
                -Surrogates
                      -Klein
                            -California
                            -National Association of Broadcasters
                                  -New York
                            -California
                                  -Money making
           -Advisory Commission on Intergovernmental Relations [ACIR]

Republican Party
     -Reform
           -Colson
           -The President’s actions
           -Timing
     -Problems
           -Division
                 -Senate and House of Representatives campaigns
     -White House
           -Support for candidates
                 -Surrogates
                 -Importance
     -Louie B. Nunn
           -The President’s efforts

Finch’s political plans
     -California
            -Challenge
            -Organization

Unknown person
    -Revenue sharing
    -Support for the President
    -Possible appointment
          -Sub-cabinet
                -Finch’s forthcoming conversation with Haldeman

The President’s schedule
                                             - 51 -

                              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. June-07)

                                                               Conversation No. 388-8 (cont’d)

       1972 election
            -Past elections
                   -1960, 1962, 1968

       White

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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Finch left at an unknown time before 3:11 pm.