Easy NixonContactAbout

Conversation: 392-009

Prev: 392-008 Next: 392-010

Start Date: 20-Dec-1972 12:33 PM

End Date: 20-Dec-1972 1:30 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Colson, Charles W.Bull, Stephen B.White House operatorNixon, Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan)

Recording Device: Old Executive Office Building

392-009.mp3

NARA Description:

On December 20, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, Stephen B. Bull, White House operator, and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 12:33 pm to 1:30 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 392-009 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 392-9

Date: December 20, 1972
Time: 12:33 pm - 1:30 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Charles W. Colson.


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 58s            ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************


        Polls
                -Vietnam War
                      -Albert E. Sindlinger
                           -“Hawks”
                                  -Compared to “doves”
                           -Press conference
                           -Negotiations
                                  -Congressional relations
                                        -“Peace with honor”
                           -“Hawks” and “doves”
                                  -Compared to the President’s May 8, 1972 decision
                                        -World War III
                                        -Cambodia
                                             -Liberals
                           -Henry A. Kissinger’s credibility
                                         -12-

                NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                           Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)

                           -“Hawks”
                                -Compared to “doves”
                           -Negativity
                                -Public confusion
                                       -Compared to the President’s May 8, 1972 decision
                                            -North Vietnam’s invasion of South Vietnam
                                       -Uncertainty
                                            -The President’s possible statement

      Edward M. Kennedy


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

      Robert J. Dole’s press conference
           -Possible reasons for comments
           -Republican National Committee [RNC] chairman
                 -Departure
           -Robert B. Docking
                 -Election margin in gubernatorial race
                 -Possible Senate candidate
                 -Lawyer
                 -Colson’s view
           -Bryce N. Harlow
           -Camp David
           -Nelson A. Rockefeller
           -Barry M. Goldwater
           -The President’s assistance
           -“Persecution complex”
           -George H. W. Bush
                 -Recommendation
           -Kansas City speech
           -Support for the President
           -Response
                 -Harlow
                        -Clay T. (“Tom”) Whitehead [?]

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
                                      -13-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                       Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)



Vietnam War
     -US bombing north of 20th Parallel
          -Kennedy’s statement
                -Tone
          -The President’s conversation with Henry A. Kissinger
                -Colson’s view
                -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman’s view
                       -Timing
                             -Christmas
          -B-52 losses
          -Duration
          -Air Force
                -Performance
          -Civilian casualties
                -Haldeman’s view
                -The President’s view
          -Public relations [PR]
                -Veterans of Foreign Wars [VFW]
                -George Meany
                -“Doves”
                       -J. William Fulbright
                       -Statements
                             -News summary
                                   -The President’s reading
                                         -Physical examination
                                              -Dilation of eyes
                                   -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS] radio
                                         -Marvin L. Kalb’s conversation with aide of
                                          Senate Democrat
                       -“Hawks”
                       -Washington, DC
                -The President’s possible television [TV] appearance
                       -The President’s May 8, 1972 decision
                -Pace of US bombing
                       -New York Times, press coverage
                -B-52 losses
                       -Compared to A-7 losses
                                               -14-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                              Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)

                        -Possible backgrounder
                              -William H. Sullivan
                                    -John A. Scali

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time between 12:33 pm and 12:47 pm.

       The President’s schedule
            -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
            -Edward V. Jones

The President talked with the White House operator at 12:47 pm.

[Conversation No. 392-9A]

[See Conversation No. 34-141]

[End of telephone conversation]

       The President’s schedule
            -Helicopter
            -Meeting with Saul Pett
                  -Timing

Bull left at an unknown time before12:47 pm.

       Issues
             -Clarification
                   -Sullivan

The President talked with Mrs. Nixon between 12:47 pm and 12:48 pm.

[Conversation No. 392-9B]

[See Conversation No. 34-142]

[End of telephone conversation]

The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 12:48 pm and
12:49 pm.
                                             -15-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                                Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)


[Conversation No. 392-9C]

[See Conversation No. 34-143]

[End of telephone conversation]


       Vietnam War
            -Henry A. Kissinger
                 -Relations with the President
                       -Kissinger’s “Peace is at hand” statement
                             -Credibility

The President talked with Bull between 12:49 pm and 12:50 pm.

[Conversation No. 392-9D]

[See Conversation No. 34-144]

[End of telephone conversation]

       Vietnam negotiations
            -Settlement agreement, November 1972
                   -Kissinger
                          -The President’s alleged action
                   -State Department
                          -“Hawks”
                          -Sullivan
            -Prisoners of War [POWs]
                   -Ronald L. Ziegler
                   -Return
                          -Timing
                                -Settlement agreement
                          -North Vietnam’s condition
                                -Civilian prisoners held by South Vietnam
            -North Vietnam’s announcement
                   -Settlement agreement, October 1972
                          -Ziegler
                                 -16-

      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                         Tape Subject Log
                           (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                   Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)

-The President’s possible TV appearance
       -Tone
       -PR
-Vietnam’s sovereignty
       -Howard K. Smith
             -New York Times
                    -Two Vietnams
                          -Compared to one Vietnam, two zones
-End of war
-Scali’s morale
-“Doves”
-“Louis P. Harris’s telephone call to Colson
       -PR
-US bombing of North Vietnam
       -Duration
-POWs
       -Press relations
       -North Vietnam “reneged” on deal
             -Ziegler
-US bombing north of 20th Parallel
       -Press relations
             -The President’s actions
                    -Tone
                    -Breakdown in talks
                    -Impulsiveness
                          -The President’s May 8, 1972 decision
                    -Response
                          -Kissinger
                                -Scali’s role
                    -Kissinger’s hawkishness
                          -Timing
                    -Tone
                          -The President’s May 8, 1972 decision
                    -George S. McGovern
-Settlement agreement
       -Nguyen Van Thieu’s position
             -North Vietnam
                    -Rhetoric
                          -Soviet Union
                               -17-

     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                        Tape Subject Log
                          (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)

           -PR
                    -“Hawks”
             -US-North Vietnam bilateral deal
                    -POWs
                          -US withdrawal
                                -McGovern
                                -Cut off of US aid to South Vietnam
             -Honor
                    -US assistance and involvement in war
                          -Vietnamization
-South Vietnam’s army
       -Photographs
             -Long Bien
                    -Tank commanders
       -Film
-Settlement agreement
       -Thieu’s position
             -Political settlement
             -Separate deal
             -McGovern
             -Separate deal
                    -North Vietnam
                          -South Vietnam’s army
                          -South Vietnam’s territorial integrity
             -Withdrawal of North Vietnamese troops from South Vietnam
                    -Duration of war
       -PR
             -The President’s possible statement
                    -Honorable peace
                    -South Vietnam’s self-defense
                    -End of war
       -Continuation of war
             -US involvement
                    -Thieu
                          -North Vietnam’s violations
                          -1972 campaign
-US bombing north of 20th Parallel
       -PR
             -Harris
                                      -18-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                        Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)

                 -Sindlinger
                        -Polling
                               -“Hawks” compared to “doves”
                               -Congressional relations
                               -Settlement agreement
                                      -Signing
                 -Dole
                 -“Doves”
                        -Jacob K. Javits, Charles McC. Mathias
                               -Primary, caucus
                                      -Nelson A. Rockefeller
                               -Jack F. Kemp
                        -Rockefeller
                               -Elmer H. Bobst library dedication
                                      -Behavior
                               -Lifestyle
                                      -Margaretta (“Happy”) Rockefeller
                        -Javits
                               -Kemp
                 -Charles H. Percy’s statement
                        -Settlement agreement
                               -North Vietnam
                               -Conditions
                               -Generation of peace
                        -Presidential nomination
                               -Republicans
                                      -“Doves”
                               -Illinois
                 -Mathis
           -Press relations
                 -New York Times, Washington Post
                 -Congressional relations
                        -House of Representatives
                               -Members urging cessation of bombing
                                      -Number
                 -Current coverage compared to prior coverage

Press relations
      -Clay T. (“Tom”) Whitehead’s speech
                                     -19-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                          Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)

          -Effect
          -Proposal
                 -Local TV stations’ license renewals extension
                       -Stability
                       -Accountability
                       -Congressional relations
                             -Federal Communications Commission [FCC]
     -Cable TV
          -Whitehead’s program
                 -Access rules
          -Rerun issue
          -Justice Department anti-trust suit
                 -Cost
                       -Business
                             -Unknown person

Productivity Commission
     -Business
     -Labor
            -The President’s schedule
                 -George P. Shultz
                 -Surrogates
                 -Hand-shaking
                 -Meany
                 -Frank E. Fitzsimmons
                 -Gift
                       -Ashtray
                 -Secretary of Labor

Labor relations
     -Longshoremen
            -Thomas W. (“Teddy”) Gleason
     -Colson’s career
     -Paul Hall
     -Colson’s conversation with Gleason
            -1973 Inauguration
                  -Fitzsimmons
            -Support by union members for the President
            -Vietnam War
                                     -20-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                      Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)

                 -US bombing north of 20th Parallel
                      -Dikes

The President’s second term
     -North Vietnam
     -Soviet Union
     -People’s Republic of China [PRC]
     -1972 election
     -Congressional relations
           -White House

Second term reorganization
     -Dole
           -Departure
                 -RNC
                 -Kansas
                 -1972 election

Vietnam War
     -US bombing north of 20th Parallel
          -Congressional relations
                 -Hardliners
                 -James O. Eastland
                 -John C. Stennis
                 -F. Edward Hebert’s statement
                 -Sindlinger poll
                       -Distribution
                             -Hardliners
          -Sindlinger
                 -Telephone call to Colson
                       -Dwight D. Eisenhower
          -Criticism
                 -John Foster Dulles
                       -Eisenhower
                 -Kissinger
          -Praise
                 -Kissinger
                       -The President
          -Press relations
                                        -21-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                          Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)

                   -Kissinger’s relations with the President
                         -Treatment of Kissinger
                               -The President as a “hawk”
                               -Credit

White House staff
     -Kissinger
     -Colson
     -Haldeman

John B. Connally

Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
     -Lack of subtlety

Connally
     -Moneymaking
     -Relationship with Southern Democrats and the President
     -Political future
            -Independent
                  -Colson’s relationship with Connally

Charls E. Walker
     -Business
     -Democratic Party
     -Conversation with Colson
     -Promotional ability
           -Administration causes

Colson
     -Future career
           -Lloyd N. Cutler
           -Don Peterson [?]
           -Cutler
                 -Lawsuit

Press relations
      -Washington Post
      -New York Times
                                                       -22-

                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                              Tape Subject Log
                                                (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                                             Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)

                -Second term
                -Networks
                -New York Times
                     -Max Frankel
                           -Kissinger
                           -Kenneth W. Clawson
                           -Kissinger


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

        The President’s schedule
             -Trip to Florida
                   -Public understanding
                          -Bombing of North Vietnam
                               -Crisis

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6A
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 36s             ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6A
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                -Colson’s meeting with Saul Pett

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6B
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 56s             ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6B
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                -Vacation
                     -Public understanding
                                            -23-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                             Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)

                -California
           -Congressional relations
           -The President’s physical examination
                -Hospital

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************


      Harry S. Truman
           -Health
                 -The President’s conversation with his doctors
                 -Death
                      -Timing
                      -Funeral
                            -The President’s attendance
                                   -Truman’s allies

      Lyndon B. Johnson
           -Health
                 -Death
                      -Funeral
                      -Timing
                           -Colson’s conversation with Martin E. Underwood
                                -Blair House dinner
                                -Underwood’s background
                                      -Advance man for Johnson
                                      -Seton Hall
                                      -Marvin Mandel of Maryland’s staff
                                -Hardening of Johnson’s arteries


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

      1972 election results
           -Richard M. Scammon
                  -Final margin
                        -Percentage
                                           -24-

                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                            Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)

                             -Compared to 1964 election
                                   -Johnson
                       -Alabama
                       -Missouri
                       -California
                       -Compared to 1936 election
                             -Landslide
           -Third parties
                 -Communist Party
                 -Socialist Workers Party
           -Scammon
                 -Percentage
                       -Compared to 1964 election
                             -Johnson

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************


     Colson’s schedule
          -Vacation
                -Colson’s children

      Vietnam War
           -US bombing north of 20th Parallel
                -White House staff
                       -Scali
                       -Patrick J. Buchanan
                -B-52 losses
                       -Expectations
                       -World War II
                              -Squadron
                -Scali
                -Timing
                       -Christmas
                              -PR
                                    -Newspaper readership

     The President’s schedule
                                             -25-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                              Conversation No. 392-9 (cont’d)

             -Swimming pool

Colson left at 1:30 pm.