Conversation: 393-011
Prev: 393-010 Next: 393-012Start Date: 4-Jan-1973 3:02 PM
End Date: 4-Jan-1973 5:15 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.; Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Kissinger, Henry A.;Recording Device: Old Executive Office Building
NARA Description:
On January 4, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:02 pm and 5:15 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 393-011 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 393-11
Date: January 4, 1973
Time: After 3:02 pm and before 5:15 pm
Location: Executive Office Building
The President met with John D. Ehrlichman at 3:02 pm.
Ehrlichman's vacation
-Edward M. Kennedy
-Skiing crowd
Federal Bureau of Investigations [FBI]
-Appointments
-Delay
-James O. Eastland
-Justice Department appointments
-Law Enforcement Assistance Administration [LEAA]
-Joseph T. Sneed
-W. Mark Felt
-Message to Ehrlichman
-Leaks
-Concern
-L. Patrick Gray, III
-Unfair criticism
-Time
-Lawyers
-Messages described
-William C. Sullivan [?]
-Narcotics
-Gray
-Retention
-William D. Ruckelshaus
-Possible appointment to FBI
-Relations with press
-Reputation
-Possible future plans
-Elected office
-Senate
-Talks with the President and Ehrlichman
-12-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Abilities
-Sneed
-New job
-Possible retirement
-Letter
Supreme Court
-The President's conversation with Warren Burger
-Sneed
-Possible appointments
-Age
-William H. Rehnquist
-William O. Douglas
-Byron R. (“Whizzer”) White
H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman entered at an unknown time after 3:02 pm.
-Potter Stewart
-Harvard
-Lifestyle
-Possible vacancies
-Douglas
-Age
-Burger
-Work
-Court reform issue
-Speeches
Nelson A. Rockefeller
-Article in New York Times
-Dr. W. Kenneth Riland
-Civil Liberties
-Drug program
-Compared to the President's program
-Ehrlichman’s and Richard G. Kleindienst’s evaluation
-Parole provision
-Sentencing provisions
-Public response
-Reason for provisions
-Enforcement
-13-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Judges
-New York Times editorial
Administration drug program
-Marijuana
-Penalties
-Dealers
-Hard narcotics
-Penalties
-Problems
-Public relations [PR]
-New proposals
-Congress
-Wallace H. Johnson
-The President's discussion with Ehrlichman
FBI
-Gray
-Meeting with the President
-Retention
-Confirmation hearings
-Strength
-Personnel transfers
-Response
-Internal protests
Personnel transfers
-National Park Service
-National Institutes of Health [NIH]
-Robert Q. Marston
-Stand on marijuana
-The President's response
Drug programs
-Rockefeller
-The President’s response
-State of the Union address
-PR
-Congress
-14-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
Judicial reform
-Age problems
-Speech to Congress
-Tenure of judges
-Lower courts
-Reconfirmation
-Election
-Los Angeles
-Florida
-Indiana
-Recall
-Theodore Roosevelt
-Reconfirmation
-Misconduct
-Justice Department memorandum
-Objections
-Thurgood Marshall
-Politics
-Ehrlichman’s judgment
-Introduction in Congress
-Inclusion in State of Union address
-Series of messages
-The President's plans for State of Union addresses
-Requirements
Drug program
-Drug trafficking
-Importance compared to Vietnam War
-Effectiveness
-Statistics
-Rockefeller's program
-Call from Ehrlichman
-The President’s expectations
-Legal reforms
-Justice Department
-Enforcement
-Grand Jury
-Network of dealers and users
Executive branch reorganization
-15-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Appointments
-Legislation
-Roy L. Ash memorandum
-Department of Community Development
-Chet Holifield
-Department of Natural Resources
-Department of Agriculture
-Earl L. Butz
-Congressional briefing
-Breakfast meeting
-Length
-Attendees
-Timing
-The President's remarks
-Ehrlichman's remarks
-George P. Shultz's remarks
-Question and answer period
-Ehrlichman's presentation
-Charts
-Executive-legislative branch relations
-Cabinet-level responsibility
-Effects
-Reduction in Executive Office of the President
-Congressional relations
-Cabinet confirmations
-Testimony
-White House counselors
-Cross departmental functions
-Essential reform
-Staff reporting to the President
-Problem
-The President’s instructions
-White House staffing
-Limits
-Haldeman
-Contacts
-Counselor for Natural Resources
-Department of Agriculture
-White House
-Staffing
-16-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Butz
-Interior Department
-Ehrlichman’s presentation
-Cabinet-level responsibility
-Executive privilege
-Reduction in problems
-Schultz
-Office of Management and Budget [OMB]
-Question and answer period
-Witholding funds
-Executive privilege
-William E. Timmons
-Samuel J., Jr.
-Attendance
-Senate Committee on Government Operations
-Ash’s role
-Ehrlichman’s role
-Withholding funds
-Congressional opinion
-Compared to other administrations
-Symbolism
-Press responses
-[Arnold] Eric Sevareid
-Critics arguments
-Water bill
-Highways
-Farm programs
-Conservation
-Housing expenditure moratorium
-Response
-Constitutional responsibility
-The President’s fiscal control
-Budget priorities
-Congress’s indecision
-Appropriations exceed tax revenues
-Congress’ “piecemeal” budgeting
-Inflation
-Possible constitutional crisis
-Ervin's view
-Executive privilege legislation
-17-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Ervin's view
-Appearance by the President’s aides
-Ehrlichman
-Henry A. Kissinger
-John W. Dean, III
-Peter M. Flanigan
-Preparation
-Timing
-Arrangements
-Food service
-Agenda
-Shultz
-Pro forma consultation
-Prior briefings
-Wilbur D. Mills
-Russell B. Long
-Herman T. Schneebeli
-Future briefing
-Presentations
-Ash's role
-Herbert Stein's role
-The President’s role
-Presidential statement
-Presidential directive
-Future briefings
-Press backgrounder
-The President's public statement
-Release
-Content
-Federalism
-Ehrlichman's TV appearance
-James J. Kilpatrick, Jr.
-Hugh S. Sidey
-David S. Broder
-National Broadcasting Corporation (NBC) reporter
-Groder
-Kilpatrick
*****************************************************************
-18-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
Press relations
-1972 election [?]
-Kevin Phillips
-Conservatives
Congressional Republicans
-Gerald R. Ford
-Robert C. (“Bob”) Wilson
-Robert J. Dole
-Wilson
-Actions
-Ford
-Timmons
-Chairmanship
-Retention
-New person
-Personality
-Compared to Clarence J. (“Bud”) Brown, Jr.
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
Executive branch reorganization
-Congressional briefing
-Shultz
-Presentation
-Style
-Personality
-Compared to John B. Connally
-Possible questions
-Executive privilege
-Timmons
-Congress members’ attitude
-Compared to Ohio State football team
The President's schedule
-Option paper
-19-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Kissinger
-1973 Inauguration
-Shultz
-Congress
Kissinger’s work
-New aide
-Economist
-Background
-Electricity
-Oil
-Kissinger, Shultz, Ehrlichman
Congress
-Vietnam War
-Attitude
-Republicans
-Campaigns
-The President’s assistance
-Funds
-Surrogates' appearances
-Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
-Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
-Julie Nixon Eisenhower
-Tricia Nixon Cox
-Candidates
-Democrats
-Future
-Effect of press
-Bryce N. Harlow
-Future relations with White House
-Public opinion
-Seniority system
-New buildings
-Carl B. Albert
-Library of Congress
-Staff size
-Compared to White House staff
-Relations with White House
-Possible question in Ehrlichman's TV appearance
-20-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Productivity
-Compared with executive branch staff
-Possible improvements
-Length of sessions
-Distractions
-Appropriations process
-Possible increase in presidential briefings
-Ford
-Hugh Scott
-Timmons
-Effect
-Future dealings with White House
-Effect of 1972 election
-Timmons's staff
-Democratic Party
-Republican Party
-Relations with the President
-Spending
-Taxes
-Press reports
-Polling
-Attacks on the President
-Public opinion
-Farm programs
-Cuts
-OMB
-William H. Harsha
-Ohio
-Defense of the President
-Charles W. Colson's office
-Butz's press conference
-Public relations [PR]
-Schedule
-Productivity
-Speech tours
-Lincoln Birthday
-Jackson Day
-Reorganization
-Changes in US
-Demographics
-21-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-New office buildings
-Staff size
-Efficiency
-Relation to executive branch reorganization
-The President's role
-Relation to judicial branch reorganization
-Burger's role
-Appropriations process
-Continuing resolutions
-Debate rules
-Senate, House of Representatives
-Seniority rules
-Scott
White House reorganization
-PR efforts
-Raymond K. Price's staff
-Specialization
-Defense Department
-Reduction
-Traveling staff
-Secret Service
-Communications staff
-Military aides
-The President's memorandum
-The President's trips to Florida
-Compared to Peoples Republic of China [PRC] trip
-Helicopter crews
-The President's trips to Florida
-Press
-The President’s Christmas trip
-Washington Post
-Staff reductions
-Kissinger
-Paperwork
-Military support staff
-Duty hours and stations
-Cost
-Stewards
-PRC trip
-22-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Florida trips
-Manolo Sanchez
-Relations with Congress
-Ehrlichman’s TV appearance
-Ford, Scott
-Tactics
-1968 election
-Compared to 1972 election
-The President’s influence
-Timmons
-Management abilities
-Vote counting
-Bryce N. Harlow
-Clark MacGregor
Bicentennial
-Agnew
-Francis A. (“Frank”) Sinatra
-Memorandum from the President to Arthur J. Sohmer
-Status
-Agnew
-Sinatra
-Possible role
-Anne L. Armstrong
-Possible role
Office of Emergency Preparedness [OEP]
-Possible reorganization
-Candidate
-Role
-Thinker
-PR
Occupational Safety and Health Administration [OSHA]
-Possible reorganization
OEP position
-Donald H. Rumsfeld
-Secretary of Transportation
-National Security Council [NSC] seat
-23-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Frederic V. Malek
-Size of office
-Foreign policy
-Kissinger
-Elliot L. Richardson
-[David] Kenneth Rush
-William P. Rogers
-Agnew
-NSC
-Needs
-Agnew
-Creativity
-Negativity
-Church support
-Hardhats’ support
-Career possibilities
-The President’s positive role
-Kissinger
-Patrick J. Buchanan
-Value
-Foreign policy knowledge
-Rumsfeld
-Contributions
Watergate
-E. Howard Hunt
-Message
OEP position
-James D. Hodson
-Work
-Future plans
-The President’s advice
-Shultz
-William D. Eberle
-Political orientation
-Foreign policy
-Domestic policy trade
-Office of the Special Representative [OSTR]
-Career goals
-24-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Shultz
-Possible roles
-Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson’s recommendation
-Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
Atomic Energy Commission [AEC]
-John S. Foster
-Dr. James Schlesinger
-Environmentalists
-Military training
-Research and development work
-Regulatory work
Kissinger entered at 4:30 pm.
-Philosophical leanings
-Possible appointment to OEP
-Personality
OEP position
-Gen. George A. Lincoln
-Abilities
-Requirements
-Richardson
-Rush
-Foster
-Possible contributions
-Technology issues
-Eberle
-Political orientation
-Knowledge
-Trade
-Europe
-Energy
-Role as Special Trade Representative
-Peter M. Flanigan
-Political orientation
-Subtlety
-Jack Miller
-Eberle
-25-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Meeting with Kissinger
-Views on USSR
-Trade
-Possible positions
-Ambassadorships
-Geneva
Ambassadorships
-Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs
-Charles E. (“Chip”) Bohlen
-Greece
-Henry J. Tasca
-Loyalty
-Morocco
-Arabs
-Attributes
-Greece
-Indonesia
-Joseph J. Sisco
The President's schedule
-Barber's appointment
-Mrs. Nixon and Julie Nixon Eisenhower
Energy
-Kissinger
-1973 Inauguration
-Age
-Removal
-Foreign Service
-Robert G. Newman
-Afghanistan
-Jackson
-European Economic Community [EEC]
-Foreign aspects
Appointments
-Richardson [?]
-Assistant Secretary of State
-26-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
Ehrlichman's presentation at Congressional briefing
Haldeman and Ehrlichman left at 4:44 pm.
Vietnam negotiations
-Technical talks
-North Vietnamese Vice Foreign Minister
-Agreement on protocol
-Rogers
-Information sharing
-Transcripts of talks
-Settlement agreement
-Haldeman
-October 26, 1972 agreement
-Publicity
-Transcripts of talks
-Attitude
-State Department
Appointments
-The President’s meeting with Rush
-Testing
-Future positions
-State Department
-William J. Casey
-Richardson
-Personality
-Work with the President
-Secretary of Defense
-Secretary of State
Foreign policy initiatives
-1972 election
-NSC’s role
-Energy
-Middle East
-Latin America
-Trade policy
Egypt
-27-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Proposals
-Timing
-Vietnam
-Israeli response
-Rogers
Vietnam negotiations
-Rush
-Melvin R. Laird
-Meeting
-Attendance by Kissinger
-Bombing
-Rogers and Laird
-Positions
-Press controversy
-Military targets
-Press coverage
-Congress
-Democrats
-Proposals to end the war
-The President’s response
-Option One
-Hanoi propaganda
-PRC role
-Bombing
-Results
-Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
-Duration
-USSR
-Settlement
-Timing
-Option One
-Congress
-Relations with the President
-1973 Inauguration
Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty [SALT]
-Nancy Maginnes
-Critics of the President
-Anti Ballistic Missile Treaty [ABM]
-28-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
Vietnam negotiations
-Call from Dean Rusk
-Critics
-Letter
-Calls for the President’s resignation
-Bombing
-The President’s support
-1972 election
-John Beaman
-Report on mail
-Albert’s mail
-Option One
-Preference
-Option Two
-Nguyen Van Thieu
-Bombing
-Prisoners of War [POWs]
-Withdrawal
-Effectiveness
-Prolonged bombing
-Public support
-The President’s image
-Defeat
-Congress
-Ending the war
-Public opinion
-Cease-fire
-“Bug out”
-South Vietnam’s survival
-Laird
-Press conferences
-Roger’s congressional testimony
-Stonewalling
-Option Two
-December 1972 bombing
-Possibility of settlement
-Bombing halt
-North Vietnam
-Saigon
-29-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Kissinger’s departure
-The President’s suggestion
-Danger
-Concession
-Thieu
-1973 Inauguration
-Congress
-Withdrawal
-POWs
-North Vietnam
-Effect of agreement
-International recognition
-Laos, Cambodia
-US withdrawal
-Fighting with South Vietnam
-Difficulties
-PRC
-Le Duc Tho
-Travel
-Meeting
-Rogers, Laird, Moorer
-Cooperation
-Support to the President
-Cambodia
-Option Two
-Option One
-The President’s preference
-Thieu’s acceptance
-Option Two
-Alternative
-Letter to Thieu
-William C. Sullivan
-Call to Kissinger from Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield
-Post-settlement actions
-Thieu
-DMZ
-Cambodia
-Congress
-Democrats
-Motives
-30-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-1972 election
-December 1972 bombing
-Republicans
-Motives
-1972 election
-Effect on the President
-Thieu
-Handling
-South Vietnam
-Political process
-Settlement
-Critics
-Conservatives
-North Vietnam
The President's schedule
-Barber
-Meeting with Colson
-Assignments
-Attacks on anti-war critics
-Congressional briefing
-Vietnam
An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 4:44 pm.
Meeting with Colson
The unknown person left at an unknown time before 5:15 pm.
Congress
-Gerard C. Smith
-The President’s image
-Support for the President
-Audience
-Committees
-Self-interest
-December 1972 bombing
-Public reaction [PR]
Vietnam negotiations
-31-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Sept.-08)
Conversation No. 393-11 (cont’d)
-Possible television [TV] appearance
-Kissinger’s presentation
The President's schedule
-Harry S. Truman memorial service
-Meeting with Kissinger
-Paper delivery
Kissinger left at 5:15 pm.