Nixon, Ziegler & Dean on Watergate and Executive Privilege

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NixonHave a hard day?

ZieglerNot a hard day, just a very busy day.

ZieglerThere a couple scotch for misunderstandings, I think, we cleared up. You can't say that

NixonAll right, to begin with, did John Dean say something in his testimony yesterday?

ZieglerI basically made that point. There are two briefings today, one this morning, and then the briefing this afternoon.

Ziegler[unintelligible]

NixonWell, I think you have to emphasize, Ron, that what happened yesterday, that you can't have this, you can't have this

NixonYou can have a representative stand up there, raise his hand and swear, and tell all the facts, whatever he knows, he can testify, but you can't do it in this form. That is an interrogation.

NixonJust as you would question a felon, that's what Gray's being, like he had done something wrong.

ZieglerWell, the questioning of executive privilege-

NixonI see, but the point you want to bury in the first paragraph is one, the willingness to cooperate, and that is not changed, that is, but we are

Nixonwilling to answer questions [crosstalk] under oath, and all the rest, but on the other hand-

ZieglerSubmitting written questions [crosstalk] backed by a sworn

NixonYeah.

Nixonstatement. Now you did hear that John Dean, John Mitchell, Dick Moore,

Nixonall of these, have, uh, answered all questions, and would be willing to do so again?

ZieglerNow let me, in essence, I did. I didn't get that specific on Mitchell, and on, uh-

NixonYou see, Gray, in his whole testimony yesterday, they asked, "Has so-and-so, has this, has the other-

Nixon"Did he ask for, did he ask for Dean, did he ask for Haldeman, did he ask for Ehrlichman?

ZieglerI didn't hear that. I didn't listen to all the questions on that.

NixonGood. But, but on Segretti, have you said that uh that is under perjury?

ZieglerHave I said that?

NixonDo you remember back in October, you said that?

ZieglerI certainly did.

NixonYou said that nobody in the White House was involved,

ZieglerYeah.

NixonYeah.

NixonAnd, do you know whether or not, uh, there've have been any other instances where raw files of the FBI have been turned over to any congressional-

NixonNot the raw files.

ZieglerRaw files, no, sir.

NixonAll right.

NixonYou call the FBI if Pat Gray's not home, find out, they are going to have their ass in high roller here. I'm fired up about that, girl, I mean that. I mean, you tell them.

ZieglerThe, uh, on the Segretti investigation, the Washington Post piece-

NixonWe, we took that on in October, 18th of October, Ron.

ZieglerYes, we did.

ZieglerChapin-Segretti, when that, we never said it didn't, we did not deny Chapin-Segretti.

NixonDid you say he didn't know what he was doing?

ZieglerSee, that's the question we came to.

ZieglerWe did not deny Chapin-Segretti, and that was the thing.

NixonWhat did you say?

ZieglerI said, and no one from the White House ever directed,

Zieglera political sabotage or espionage, or compiling a dossier, or following people. This was carefully worded during that.

NixonRight. Correct.

ZieglerAnd I said, if they worked, if they ever had worked in the White House, they no longer work in the White House. That's the way we put that.

NixonGood.

NixonNow, [snort] So that all panned out, but did, now, didn't what has come out prove that to be untrue?

ZieglerNo. Okay.

NixonChapin-

ZieglerChapin hired Segretti. Some reporter interpreted what I said then

Ziegleras saying that we denied Chapin's ever putting Segretti in motion.

NixonAll right, we never did that. We- they always knew that, so what? All right.

ZieglerWe never did at any time, we did not deny a link between Dwight Chapin and Segretti, but we did deny that Dwight Chapin-

NixonDirected him.

Zieglerdirected it. Now, that was filed in October, and it got blew up, and the focus went onto other areas. The focus came back to the Segretti-Chapin thing

Zieglerthis week after the Gray hearing, where he released the FBI

Unknownhear what's said about [unintelligible]

ZieglerRight. So, then they asked me about that and I said, well, having carefully listened to the question, [unintelligible], and I said, "I have nothing else to add to what I said previously on the subject. I stand on every statement that I made in the morning on this subject."

NixonRight.

ZieglerThen, I said, "I am, uh, we're concerned about the use of raw and unevaluated files." And supported Gray's, the position Gray had taken,

Zieglerthe position where they set up some guidelines as to how the files, the FBI files, are used in a, in an executive session. Judiciary Committee, they are not public, and that they, you know, they're going through a searching checkpoint so that the file doesn't get into the hands of the committee in general, or, released publicly,

Nixonreleased publicly, with false information about an individual that has never been checked out.

ZieglerYes, sir. That, uh, brings people into a, into a problem who are seconds, flatly in accurate. That's, uh, right, Bob?

NixonWell, somebody knows that they actually did want to turn in on a candidate. The other candidate's turned in.

ZieglerOh, I understand.

NixonSee, no, we have to keep an open record. You understand? This part of them so bad, so bad,

Nixonthat it casts another slur on the FBI.

NixonYou think they want to shake them up a little bit?

ZieglerI know. I told, who do they think I'm afraid of getting it to?

NixonApparently.

ZieglerI would suspect that they did. I did, too. But that's just a turnover.

NixonThe FBI hand hire that is so

ZieglerUndercover women?

Nixonand does that get everyone into the wrong one?

NixonYeah, you know, we had, you know, at least I know [unintelligible]

ZieglerYeah.

Nixon[unintelligible] I know what was the other guy's name?

ZieglerWait. I bet they'd go crazy [unintelligible]

— 2 min 9 s with no transcribed speech —

Zieglerwell, uh, uh, uh, the Secretary, uh, the Great House, uh, we've set up for the, uh, this many more of their, uh, their hearings by partisan way, that we will rule out hearsay, that we will rule out closed-door sessions, and we'll rule out charges of anything as long as they apply for those rules,

Zieglerthey want to conduct it, they'll call another man. Non-partisan, hearsay, innocent people slandered, it will be the

ZieglerThat's another shot across the bow, and what I mean is that, that no that no innocent person could ever- ever be named without hearsay. It's the hearsay that we want to rule out. If we enforce that rule, hearsay would be hearsay, whether it be a lawyer and all other, but it's hearsay which could be a bad word. A lot of good in that, I think the shot across the bow.

Nixon[unintelligible]

ZieglerThe matter would be, they want to be in the position of Dean, for example, and say, well, that's they're liable to get into it. Okay, well, hell, I don't care [unintelligible] who the hell, you know, I, whatever they got in there. Then the question would be whether or not you'd say, Well, Dean conducted the investigation, is that what you did?

NixonOr do you want me not to say Well, I uh this thing. I have never said that. [laughter] Okay. You think that's pressed for it, well ask questions, you see, I mean, if somebody should bring that in, would he have any reason to

ZieglerBecause they say, I had to report on the matter as that and why he was checking whether or not anybody in the White House staff was involved in such activity, direct or indirect, such activity.

NixonI know. Now having said that, huh, then you get a second question. As to whether or not you are aware, or whether or not the Dean investigation showed that

NixonChapin did, indeed, hire Segretti. Who he hired.

ZieglerWell, who he hired.

NixonNow, who he hired. Whether he hired Segretti.

ZieglerWell, what did they ask him, then?

NixonWell, that's the tough one, you see, and, in fact, he did. [crosstalk] Well, you never

ZieglerI can say, I am not gonna try to find that out. I can say that.

NixonYeah.

NixonYeah. Dean.

NixonYeah.

ZieglerWhat they mean is, that they have never, formally, turned over raw files to a committee. Now, informally, they have taken files up and shown them to Eastland, when he, for example, was conducting a judge. They've done that. Yeah.

ZieglerYeah, that's right. They take the- but they couldn't turn the files informally. But what they did

ZieglerAnd so, in other words, we've been, the statement, very forthright in terms of forward of information than has applied to any other [unintelligible]. I think maybe you should listen to that Joe, Joe who's later on.

ZieglerWhat I get at is this, I want to say, would always refer to raw files never to raw raw raw files to a committee. They know this. We've got neither of them on basis of, totally secure [unintelligible]

NixonNever been, never, they regularly went through all raw files. They walked

Nixonin their office, and took everything. [unintelligible] Exactly.

ZieglerOkay, well, keep the scare on that. Okay.

NixonAll that question, Ziegler, you could say uh just say, "Gentlemen, I have never commented on it, and it's simply a nonsense."

ZieglerMaybe I could just stay off the thing completely, though. Uh-huh. Well, I don't know, I mean. If I say that they have this afternoon, maybe they'll comment on it anyway. Maybe I just better stay out, so they won't have

NixonDamn stupid. Anyone can. Well,

ZieglerThere's that the other, there's the other question, you know, sort of think of,

NixonYeah. You're right. Oh. But who the hell who hired him? Well, who hired him?

ZieglerIf you say yes,

NixonThen they press him: What did he hire him for? What did he hire him for? What's Once you say yes,

ZieglerThen you then they're gonna come at Ron.

Nixontell me now, where did the money come from, and all of that. Hell, no. All of that that's their big star.

ZieglerI think it's better to stay, I'm not gonna comment on that matter, because it's [unintelligible] All right, just stay off it. I think I'll just draw a line there.

NixonCourse they could've said, could say, and not to Dean, you can say, "I'm not gonna have anything further to say about whatever it was we discussed, over here, and at the committee. I will tell you that I I heard about this [unintelligible] private

Nixonprivate investigator, or study. Now, did that make news for people who paid him? Did Congress follow along so they won't pay for other activities? All right. And directly, that takes Care of this, because the second you have to go into definition of what it is, Yeah, it's not trying.

ZieglerI just think I'll stay, stay out of it. I think I'd better stay out of it. Let them say that, "Ron, is under investigation." So, that's that's all.

Nixon[unintelligible] coverup. coverup. Right.

ZieglerThe whole thing is so goddamned foolish. You know, the activities, on crap totally separate from the Watergate. They got sabotage, and they got all In fact, the, what they think about is much worse than what has happened.

ZieglerI should say nothing [crosstalk] Sure.

NixonWell that's my view, and that has been our strategy up to this point. And, uh,

Nixonbeing investigated. Yeah. And that the, uh Did you ever hear Chapin hired him?

ZieglerWell, you say, I said that [unintelligible]

Nixon[unintelligible] It's my understanding, you see, that [unintelligible] had contacted this agency. They made contact [unintelligible]

Nixonand then

Zieglercontact Kalmbach who [unintelligible] We even said that about four or five weeks

Nixonago. Well, but there's nothing, I'm not questioning the truth of it, Ron, I'm only talking about

Nixontactics. It's a killer. If they get into the tactics, Ron, you can't, it's all caught up in that. As long as you I understand that. As long as you respond only to the The best way is to fall into their

ZieglerNo, I'm, I don't say, I'm not gonna, I'm not, just had to, like it, and, I, like that you know that it hadn't, but

Zieglerbearing in mind the matter that it has, has been raised by, as you know, both parties, and, it will be up to your criteria, then to be seriously reports on the, on the, on the 70s. I said they're crafty. Yeah. I didn't think they'd run through all those names, because that report had leads,

Zieglerreports on it, Well, they can't. Why didn't they take the raw file?

NixonNo, because he owns a crash tool, and home, and I Maybe you could watch the crowd, they're wrong. Okay.

NixonWell, these guys will really, But on the other, the other issue, Well, I am not gonna get This plays into their For you to comment, this plays into their hand. Now, the other thing is in regard to that,

Zieglerthe whole issue of shield law is really around.

NixonWhat did you say [unintelligible] I don't give a damn about a shield or no shield.

ZieglerI could only say to this the Attorney General ventured a statement of policy on that that he put a policy through where the Justice Department

NixonYou state your belief should not be, we shouldn't

ZieglerSo, you have stated that later on that the federal shield law really would not be [unintelligible]

NixonI haven't checked that before the briefing.

ZieglerIn fact what is that position I thought I'd, I'd go out and take another look at the debate [unintelligible]

NixonAnd then the sixth, of course, this is [unintelligible] testified about, where are we there? We, Justice

ZieglerWell, what, what are our

NixonWell, on again if a shield law we are, you're against absolute shield. We feel that the federal guidelines are working.

ZieglerUh-huh.

NixonWe don't particularly oppose codifying that [unintelligible] guidelines, because there's no need to do it because they're working. And we have serious questions about whether it is, whether it's supported by the First Amendment, particularly as it applies to state courts because we are, those issues are not right, you know.

ZieglerYeah.

NixonAll those.

ZieglerMaybe I could state that. The sixth, testified on this and today I stand by those words and what I thought, what was, what was a point I figured you might have, I might even say this to, they're going call on me for the right of reporters to the freedom of the press,

NixonState [unintelligible]

NixonSure.

Nixonright of people to be protected against crime. What's the right of people to justice?

ZieglerThree principles that really ought to be discussed in the media

NixonYeah. The basic six point for the right of reporters to freedom of the press, the right of people to protection against crime, and the right to justice.

ZieglerFirst amendment.

NixonAnd that really is, six point said right to people,

ZieglerYeah.

Nixonit's for the honestly, you see, the right of the people to a free press. First amendment doesn't apply to people's right,

ZieglerGeneral.

Nixonto see its information. I believe in free press for the right of people to freedom from crime and to protection against crime and those are the rights for justice. And that is his, and I, I think I will over the weekend, Ron, and write a little statement that you can always point to, because they're going to keep hammering on this.

ZieglerSure they are.

NixonWhen they run out of Watergate, and they'll run

ZieglerWatergate,

Nixonfairly soon,

Zieglerthey'll have to push the press name, and [unintelligible]

ZieglerMaybe they're going try to get me today. I saw a piece in all of the week,

NixonWhat do they want you to do?

ZieglerNow, they just want to sit down and talk. And so, we've got a briefing tomorrow. I'd told them not today on the press thing.

NixonShield law.

ZieglerListen, you know what, I heard Ron Nessen say if you don't have a shield law they're going to get a lot of jackasses passed in others, called them, 'Who's a reporter?' You call a reporter that would, would push girl or whoever it happened to be, you know.

ZieglerI just believe, honestly [unintelligible]

NixonA lot of solemn folks.

ZieglerIt scares the hell out of them because of what they're doing now. I told them to keep briefed, because what the press is doing is on a wave of emotion,

NixonRight.

Ziegleron a wave of misunderstanding, on a wave of expanded rhetoric, not only from the standpoint of freedom of the press, but from the standpoint of how the media have acted toward this administration,

NixonHuh.

Zieglerterms of the rhetoric, you might legislate away the First Amendment. I said, you have no chance for absolute shield. None. You'll legislate, modify a shield law and,

NixonYeah.

Zieglerit is conceivable, which it won't be, in next four, six years that once you cross the barrier, legislate away the First Amendment in that, they get into steps to take for the Congress getting in it where the press, the right of the people to a free press will be impeded,

NixonYeah.

Zieglermore than help. I said, I can give an answer, or response if you keep talking about this [unintelligible] what your views are about that,

Zieglerand they stopped. And they haven't come back on that since.

NixonI, and also tell them, I'm not, saying that there is not a problem with the state court. [unintelligible] That where the problem is, it's not the federal. It is in the

ZieglerThat's where the problem is. In the states.

NixonSince the Branzburg decision, many state courts have gone a little far down that road. If they finally take their problem, that's been a court problem, they know that.

ZieglerNow they don't, they're looking for federal remedies.

NixonWhat they should do is assume state [unintelligible]

ZieglerI argue strongly that if you begin to legislate the First Amendment guarantee, that's a guarantee for the press. Anything you do that's qualified will add to it little at all.

NixonPerhaps take

ZieglerAnd perhaps will lessen the guarantee.

NixonWhile recognized [unintelligible] and the danger can come [unintelligible]

ZieglerWe've drawn the line far, far harder on the Watergate situation, much harder. The questions come, [unintelligible] that's also the question this evening and the question [unintelligible]

Zieglerresponsibility.

NixonIt's a matter of looking at [unintelligible] looking at the other side, because in a way it all ties together.

ZieglerUh-huh.

NixonOn, on one side, they force the President [unintelligible] more power [unintelligible] have the power [unintelligible]

ZieglerI make it perfectly clear in all of these briefings that this administration has used less executive privilege, I will make that safe assertion,

NixonThat's right.

Zieglerthan any administration. And each event the records show that into reasonable proportion.

NixonWell, the other thing to say, of course, is that find other

ZieglerWe're very forthcoming.

NixonAlso they've been very forthcoming in cooperation.

ZieglerYes.

NixonAnd, and rather than ever trying to prevent, to deny a hearing [unintelligible]

ZieglerHe does provide

Nixonafter a real [unintelligible] each of these can turn into situations.

ZieglerLet me tell you what this dude was saying.

NixonFine.

Zieglerthe FBI on handing back the, the aspect of the press, some part of that their part of the process, they're talking about

NixonCorrect.

Zieglerissue by an executive order.

NixonWell they don't, I don't know the FBI part. But the Department of Justice, and everybody the Department of Justice has had, the, with the White House, will cooperate with, in every way we can. They'll furnish any and each person, they'll furnish both the, they'll furnish the information and so forth and so on. We have absolutely, uh, we have been uh, totally

ZieglerWell, that's what we were saying, who's your what are about.

NixonThe thing they confer with will, Watergate, the administration furnished [unintelligible]

ZieglerIn fact, that doesn't mean a thing at all, though. No.

ZieglerWell, I'm fair to say

NixonSimple question, isn't it?

ZieglerA simple question and a simple answer. He has.

NixonWatergate?

ZieglerYes, sir.

NixonExecutive privilege doesn't apply to it.

ZieglerI suppose the girls go on uh on the morning when they've got this, and they've got this,

NixonWhat the ITT did, well, it's slightly more than that. Slightly more, but not much more. Thing I would never regret. Never regret it.

ZieglerI uh I don't know.

NixonThe whole thing is flushed out. I still get to go forward with it.

ZieglerYeah. Everybody talks. Yeah. Of course, all trying to raise this to high, you know, I

NixonAll I'm saying is that Watergate has not become a national issue. I don't give a damn what the polls say.

ZieglerI know, therefore it's not going to become uh

NixonCould have been had it been on television, Ron.

ZieglerYeah, we have to keep in mind they had all of us here.

NixonI wonder if they will.

ZieglerYeah.

NixonYou have the drama of people, drama of confrontation right there on tv.

ZieglerThat's why we're not going to put any White House people up there, though. In actual fact, if people go up there,

NixonThat's right, they won't be having us.

ZieglerNo.

NixonHey, pull it that way.

ZieglerThat fine? It's questioning the arrogance, the insistence, the steepness.

NixonYeah.

ZieglerDoes that not

NixonSee that's our position is firmer or harsher, whatever the word,

ZieglerYeah.

NixonAnd then when I release it,

ZieglerWhat I think that gives us,

NixonSure.

NixonParty lines then will firmly be drawn. That'll be a whole lot better for us.

ZieglerWe'll never get a compromise, those guys. You're right. That would, you're not going to have a chance.

NixonI don't think

ZieglerBob wants actual stand taken, Ron.

NixonWe, we have drawn a line.

ZieglerShut right after whatever they were, McCarthy did that

Nixonpeople.

ZieglerYeah. That actually didn't bother people.

NixonThat's what bothered them. That should have bothered, Ervin, bothered.

ZieglerThey need that four million dollar for their budget, I would say.

NixonFamous competition.

ZieglerEverybody would fold, though, in the end.

NixonYeah.

ZieglerYeah, the Republicans would fold.

NixonDie.

ZieglerYeah.

ZieglerDean could not respond. Oh, I know. I know.

ZieglerThere are a lot of wires in here.

ZieglerThey are a part of [unintelligible]

ZieglerSee they got [unintelligible] the other person's direct. You see? That's true.

ZieglerOkay. Okay.

ZieglerYeah they come on. And, of course, a few documents both are established. This one

ZieglerThis is an interview. Sure. There's another there before.

ZieglerThat's fine.

ZieglerAre they catching up on that, too?

ZieglerI think we'll probably get diverted by that. I mean, if he leaked it for that

NixonWell, that's going to take right into the four months, you know, for the Gray hearings. It'll take quite a while for Gray to get through with this. The only thing I can think, if they didn't, go ahead and ask a question about Dean, Gray

NixonAll right, I don't think tomorrow, that he's going to get into [unintelligible] that would be the best. Make that a whole change of script tonight.

NixonIf you get a question

ZieglerWell, I resolved Friday this far. I stepped up and said, "Look, that's a matter—" Well, I said, "I've already I've covered that and I have endeavors about it so forth and, ah, the only question I have been asked is Did Dean conduct an investigation?"

ZieglerAnd I have said, "Well, would you just say yes?" and I nodded.

NixonWhy not say, "Gentlemen, I just said to that, ah, that you've asked me scoopfuls of questions on this, but while it's evident right now that there are more questions on this,

Nixonall I can say on, ah, on it, and all they were responding that you shoot, and they'll get frustrated by that.

NixonBecause if if you get into You make a mistake if you just tease them up with questions, you know. They can, they can ask you so many, you know.

ZieglerRight.

NixonThat it shows you wiggle around, it's never gonna be legal or it's hard to reply.

NixonDid you get his, ah, yeah.

ZieglerWhy not just say, "Dean, Dean responded to questions regarding Watergate, but when you stop to consider the whole wiretap thing, it was a totally different, ah,

Ziegleroperation that went far beyond, and for that reason, all that was said

NixonYeah.

NixonAll the information that you get with him turned into the President [unintelligible]

NixonObviously we made a statement right after the thing

NixonThat's it, babe. Dean

ZieglerWe're going to have to, Mr. President, periodically, that's what I actually look at.

ZieglerSee, what I I don't know who who here could sort of be hard pressed, you know, sort it out. I'm hoping Peter Flanigan

ZieglerI will try to set a pattern where you avoid reason on it. Well, of course, the DC break-in was far away from the issue.

ZieglerIt isn't as that the hearings can [unintelligible]

ZieglerThat point is, my line hope,

NixonThen if it goes off track, then, ah,

ZieglerNow let's talk about the [unintelligible]

NixonThe Ervin Senate, tell him Ervin, tell him there's naturally [unintelligible] [whispering]

NixonI was asking today of whether the question to be asked about Gray, does this mean you intend to, they'll bring all of them in the White House [unintelligible]

ZieglerThey asked him about, they said, "Well, the question would be what, would it ever include John Dean?" I said, "Well, whatever the Senate may do, the question is, will he come up, and will you cooperate with a congressional committee?" We have never said that we would not provide information

Ziegler[unintelligible] And they asked, "Has he got subpoenas?" [unintelligible] I said, "Yes. Have other staff members?" I said, "They have. Now, that's not to say they came to testify, but I've said that we've always been willing to cooperate.

NixonYeah.

Ziegler"We have provided, that is factual information, to the FBI."

NixonBut that's not a new question, is it?

ZieglerNo.

NixonJohn, John's [unintelligible]

ZieglerWell, he was indicted by a grand jury.

Nixon[unintelligible] grand jury [unintelligible]

ZieglerCertainly, definitely.

NixonYeah, grand jury. [unintelligible]

ZieglerWell, shit, anything can be said now.

NixonNext man after Chapin. You bet after [unintelligible] that that's a different story. Then we run across this, you know, this question [unintelligible]

ZieglerThey stumbled on a story in the New York Times.

NixonThat Segretti, in other words, [unintelligible] the whole child situation. Watch him.

ZieglerHe has a question [unintelligible]

NixonThe silent question is the CIA did [unintelligible]

ZieglerAnd that is correct, that is correct. I have not told anyone anything about [unintelligible]

Zieglerasking you about [unintelligible] whoa, one of the things about executive privilege

NixonJohn, yeah. Well, the girl

NixonYeah.

NixonWell, then tell, were they firing at him with a six

NixonHis testimony [unintelligible]

NixonDid he get that out?

NixonAnother thing about uh Kissinger [unintelligible] have the girl call she's [unintelligible]

NixonYeah. Fine.

NixonFine.

NixonFine. All right. Fine.

NixonAll right. Now the thing uh about this whole thing, Ron, is uh

NixonI think that uh, they got all the stories here,

ZieglerWell they certainly have. They got a column

Zieglerand uh Mr. Kraft [unintelligible]

ZieglerYeah. He knows what he wants to do, expand his story, and then that's the way it went down.

NixonWell how did it feel in the press corps?

NixonNobody how about this one about where she has got twenty-three thousand people?

ZieglerWell people in the whole country, they turn it into several thousand.

NixonRight. And, you know it's it's, yeah, it's one of their standard questions.

NixonSo what? Have they had the public responding to it now?

NixonIt's it's gone.

NixonHow did how did your press conference go?

ZieglerWell it went fine. It's just that uh, we've got to take the offensive.

NixonHow did it go? Did you put it all on them?

ZieglerYes, sir. I put it all on

Zieglerwe've had

NixonFunny that they stumble uh we started uh Don't want it, that is true, her two-faced person.

NixonHello.

ZieglerWell, I think we should always keep the pressure on. Just uh, keep the pressure on.

NixonI think so, yeah. I think so.

NixonSecond thing about being fair about the whole thing, uh, I can hear those stories, yeah.

Nixonquestion it.

ZieglerYeah.

ZieglerSo it's

ZieglerThose papers have sold for

NixonYou mean in the reckless use of the word?

ZieglerYes, sir.

ZieglerAnd that's why, uh, you know, my my view is this, White House can be far more effective and, by not doing overt

NixonVery sensitive. What appeared there is not that appeared to be aggressive

ZieglerNo, I didn't think so, Mr. President.

ZieglerIt's helping. Helping through the media [unintelligible]

Zieglereffectively. Check up for ourselves and get anywhere as soon as long as I get to do that.

ZieglerI did. And that, and that had them something that hits back with, that we have played into their hands. I think that

NixonWell you talk about us, we could. Yeah. I think we played in their hands, fucking laugh it.

Nixonlast eighteen years.

ZieglerI'm talking about skillful skillfully,

Zieglerskillfully, as you put it, hard

ZieglerThat's why they upset me today

NixonAnd on that, you've got to push hard across that, right, dear?

NixonThat's so. Well, that's why I am so, that's why they [unintelligible] Churchill's year.

ZieglerThe thing that hits them hard, is there a lot of people who get the credit for it,

Zieglerthe Press and the media.

NixonRight.

ZieglerMuch better that uh, why shouldn't we

NixonGet back on it.

Zieglerhit back hard

NixonRight.

Zieglerand they haven't

ZieglerThey are getting it. They're getting that, what's your tough,

Ziegleris your response.

NixonRight.

ZieglerPeriod.

NixonThat's right.

ZieglerPeriod.

ZieglerWell, let's keep the, let's keep the pressure on. The press conference, I think

Zieglerbear fruit in a period

Zieglerand the others

Zieglerlike the Judaic [unintelligible]

NixonYeah.

ZieglerNow let's drive away, and I have uh John going into the background on this thing, to let them squarely know why, they're not going to be able to talk about it,

Zieglerwhy, why try to be good friend to these people, because that's not, you know, what it's all about. That's your projection.

NixonYeah. And, listen, this bothered you [unintelligible]

NixonI don't really care [unintelligible]

ZieglerJust call you, they just call again.

NixonRight.

ZieglerAnd let's surprise them. They decide to ask for

Zieglerwe're here.

NixonYeah.

NixonAnd, then

ZieglerWell, see I I, my view is, I I love, I'd love to see

ZieglerNetwork Coverage,

ZieglerI'd like to see network coverage on it.

NixonYeah.

ZieglerWay for them to worry about that. Not come back with the same smear, you know.

ZieglerWe tell them to talk with Gray, and tell the fact that

NixonThat's right.

ZieglerAll right, Mr. President.

NixonThat's why I think you should do fine.

Zieglerand you guys say that I am not aware of, on our stand, as to whether or not

NixonDean may have been ordered [unintelligible]

NixonThe surprising thing is, Ron, the [unintelligible] on the whole issue. [unintelligible] yesterday. The President made that statement. You've answered by saying nothing more to be added. And, uh, you're position has been made clear.

NixonNow that is a new response in a news conference. I mean, they want more than to be answered. But wait a minute. You

ZieglerUh, well you see, there's another point. They think that we're talking through who appeared [unintelligible]

NixonRight, right.

ZieglerThat's what you're asking.

NixonThe story—the Watergate story is that none of the questions have been answered. You answer them every day. The questions they have be answered.

ZieglerAnd, therefore, do we get into lawyers' and, uh, other people? Well, then that is—this, uh, this afternoon.

NixonWell, on all these questions, are you having a briefing today? A briefing this morning?

ZieglerNo, I didn't, by that time the hearing had began.

NixonRight.

NixonWell, on all of these questions, I think it would be a mistake to [unintelligible] that we'll start again, don't you?

ZieglerYes, I do.

NixonBecause they're questions that the President of the United States has not yet answered, they are questions they shouldn't ask.

NixonPosture the way

ZieglerToo quickly.

Nixontoo quickly.

ZieglerYeah, it's something that we haven't answered.

Nixon[unintelligible] that the President of the United States should not be asked. But they are questions in the Senate committee

Nixonthat they like to be answered, that the FBI has been questioned about, and something that's been handled and commented on already by by their men. It's already been answered and investigated by the proper committee. But those are questions that should be handled by the Committee for the Re-Election. Not by the President and not his staff.

NixonI think that should—that should provide the answer to all of them.

ZieglerTell them, "Gentlemen, no. There's been a lot of questions you may have asked, and they've been covered. Of course, you have,

Ziegleryou are well impressed with that. And, of course, you want to

NixonThe truth is, uh—

ZieglerWell, I think just [unintelligible] How did you like when they called my office tomorrow?

Nixon[unintelligible] Yes, sir. I understand.

ZieglerYeah. The stories are such, that commented on all day.

NixonYou shouldn't speak to them.

ZieglerNo, I don't.

NixonYou haven't, you don't speak to them?

ZieglerIn fact, in [unintelligible] you know, I haven't talked to you all week. [unintelligible] thank you [unintelligible]

NixonYeah.

ZieglerI don't think it is our [unintelligible]

ZieglerI want him, oh well he's in back. Ex- All right, thank you. Okay, bye-bye.

ZieglerWith regard to the, uh--

NixonWith regard to the Cambodia thing, that's not, uh, there's not very [unintelligible]

ZieglerWell, the people have been, you know, officially and privately they said that I think that that would happen and everybody's had that. But we've never clarified our stand point.

ZieglerA second point: With regard to a- with regard to, uh, [unintelligible] in the event that [unintelligible]

NixonThey don't have all that much for Cambodia because they come out from very far [unintelligible]. Why did they say no [unintelligible] Cambodia today?

NixonI suppose that they are worried to, ah, mark, maybe they've got that question.

NixonWhy don't you just say that the article with respect to Cambodia was not, uh, was not accurate. The fact is [unintelligible] says the article [unintelligible] the Cease-Fire [unintelligible] the Cease-Fire. I will just say that we agree with that point.

NixonIn other words, finally we break all the plans for ceasefire. Uh, oh, I have, uh, a small flyer on. We, according to this, there's an implication that we did send word to the government of Lon Nol and therefore, caused this terror before I made my speech, and we would have liked to have made that [unintelligible]

ZieglerWell, that's what, that's what's the, and I have to be careful about not saying it before you got there or where that happened.

NixonAll right. As to who

ZieglerOh.

Nixonuh, Shultz indicated that he discussed the Ruhr, under some question.

NixonYou know this on story that I, uh, that on the way to the 300,000 [unintelligible] If that wasn't mentioned I don't know whether the Treasury guys ever did that or not.

NixonWell, Goddamn it, people should know who he is. Of course they don't, I don't, but that one day the other fellow cannot do this. Why the hell didn't Hannigan [unintelligible] tell, well not that he's the responsible guy over there, you can't say that Jackson, it's not Jackson, really no Jackson,

NixonJackson has got [unintelligible]

NixonI wouldn't take a very hard line [unintelligible] I won't have to. I wouldn't take a very hard line, damn it, on that one. Central Telephone Company [unintelligible]

ZieglerThe other prompt here is, that they'll want me to add, did Shultz do that?

NixonRight. And say, did he do it? It can't hurt if I give him a [unintelligible] so that he did do it, and you've got to look to that too. Well yes, what shall I say, shall I say have we discussed this thing, whether, I will only indicate that any, any writer about that

Nixonthat uh, we all have felt that uh, that it would be totally beyond [unintelligible] regards for you, never let they know how few and uh, they were

ZieglerUh,

Nixonsay, a rhino would have, would have slammed down the door [unintelligible] and take the stand that we took. We haven't had [unintelligible] electronically getting some while another market, we not.

NixonI wouldn't say, I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say on, these are ever done, but 40,000 to, that is their advice. That is the fact.

ZieglerYeah.

NixonThey could readily impact into possible, it's possible. And I have to say something else, that in also in terms of Peter's relationship that the about fully and hopefully that foreign public there checker that.

ZieglerThat's your, that,

NixonI understand thoroughly [unintelligible]

NixonI say, I'm Jewish, what did you do with him? You know I'm kind of getting this call life right now. I didn't scruple [unintelligible] that thing to be aggressive maybe [unintelligible]

NixonWell, they want to push the issue, go forward with it, they did it with 42, we'll carry it to sixty.

ZieglerUh, the other point I had [unintelligible] I don't know if they think that it's taxation [unintelligible] Yeah.

NixonYeah.

ZieglerDo your best.

NixonAll right, but they had won't play it quite, quite the ball. [unintelligible] I know they're trying, but that would never make it [unintelligible] they'll never make, they'll never, never make it.

NixonAnd fact is, the best they can do is use, uh, to what? In detail, it can be if they were to use, that's what I said that day, they have use [unintelligible]

ZieglerNow the other point is, uh, on the ceasefire

Ziegleron, on that issue itself. Uh, is it possible that we review

ZieglerWould you not say so?

NixonBased on your conversation, rather than to make any communication [unintelligible] they can do so far, but don't say that they call [unintelligible] I don't think that's quite so.

ZieglerAnd Steve Rogers came up with an idea [unintelligible]

NixonI can't talk [unintelligible]

NixonNow let's hope so. And hope he does tell me [unintelligible] Yeah.

NixonYou, uh, check with that, they say they've [unintelligible] communicate to Moscow.

NixonGo ahead. I don't think it would do a damn for the beginning because if they're still, uh, setting back to us. Very sympathetic though, it's not, they're not asking for options if it's costly, which is they want. Come on, damn. But then again, if they're saying it's, damn business,

Nixonuh, for civilians.

ZieglerThanks.

ZieglerThey got, they got it. I want to set some uh offer for the heart. For the, for the people who seek that, that, and uh, send them back.

ZieglerThen it's raw. [unintelligible] You, uh, I think that's best, you have yesterday, didn't you? Yeah, I wanted them, and, uh, [unintelligible]

ZieglerWe have, uh, [unintelligible]

Nixon, Ziegler & Dean on Watergate and Executive Privilege

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Nixon, Ziegler & Dean on Watergate and Executive Privilege

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on March 14, 1973

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