Conversation 444-005

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Hi Fred, how are you?

Good, thank you.

Well, what do I need to know today?

Well, that's a local law firm, uh, in Virginia, uh, the board won't have to sit down with Fred Thompson.

We have established a procedure for how to set up a cross-examination problem.

You're going to have to see him.

You won't have to sit down with Thompson.

And, uh, we have a procedure so that we can help him with his cross-examination.

Thank you for the cross-examination.

All the information we have about the different conversations or contacts or activities.

Thank you.

All of this could be used to prepare a more effective cross-examination.

I really think it should be the focal point of our attention at this particular point in time.

The media seems to be hanging their hats off.

The media?

The media.

Building them up?

Well, they're going to be able to tell.

Yeah.

We have also gone back and very carefully, every word you said,

I need the documents to tell us about at this point in time.

And here is the documents.

Are you some of us?

Would you only comment on them, turn them out?

And then the staff secretary will send them to you.

I just want to say, Mr. Wilson, he's in the lining.

And they tell me to let him know if he wants to talk to me.

Yes.

No.

Fine.

Good.

All right.

Fine.

You think so?

Paul is a good man?

Good.

What did he say?

Well, I mean, fine.

OK.

Well, these new summaries are extracting, and certain beliefs call it his attention.

Oh, I've just met all these problems going through.

It's not a day.

You think that I, Mark, well, I probably marked things that do this, do that, do nothing, but I don't know.

You said note.

Huh?

You put the people who should note.

Most of the things.

I never noticed no disease.

I never was aware of it at that time.

But these were, these were, after he started giving the right ones, like the right earrings, he told me to get the tissues.

Oh yeah, he would tell me to.

He should tell me to.

Well, we have a board on the way back to Southampton, so we'll talk to everyone else.

But I'll be very careful.

to see what he could have.

Lynn, while I'm working on this, they're going to have to point to the other writers, and that was Fred Field, which is being told.

It's very meticulous what they're going through with Fred Field.

Anything he tells you about him is actually useful.

And this means that we need to get more people out of town.

We need to get back with the Saturday.

We're going to need to get back.

And it's very hard.

It's quite hard.

It's very hard.

I'm thinking about this.

We deserve it.

And we deserve it.

He didn't mean what he was going to do.

He wouldn't disturb him when he was not home.

Even if he's disturbed about being in a cold situation, he's better respected.

He was a practical father, and he did less and less of the moving work this time around.

Well, when Dane talks about knocking, I wonder if that is really enough he can do.

He keeps talking while he's knocking.

Well, there was a history study that said that an endocrinologist, that's what he said.

And he?

Not from me, just an endocrinologist.

He was reporting on the endocrinologist that would indicate your awareness.

He just said, awareness of what?

All we have.

You know, that sort of thing.

He was worried then.

Also, if he had anything that was very important, he would have at least described it in detail.

I think he described most things in detail.

Most things that he has.

I suspect he's got a lot more detail in it.

And I wouldn't be able to describe it.

That's my first conversation.

That is so, so, a lot so, I don't know.

I would be so stupid.

Tell everybody to do that.

You know what I mean?

Um, I think there's no way to tell when and if the demon's done.

It doesn't count.

The demon is still in there, isn't it?

It's still in there.

I'm not sure this is really going to rule tomorrow.

They didn't have the immunity.

Well, the cops will appeal that.

Well, the U.S. Attorney should regard the transaction.

Well, the U.S. Attorney, the prosecutors don't want to get, uh, get involved in, uh,

It's obvious that all the savings are out of their hands tonight.

Yep.

And Cox has them.

Cox doesn't really know how to disappoint about the case.

He's going to have to plan his time.

You know, he's... My discussion last week is very clear that his knowledge of the facts of the case are very soon to be at best.

I'm a little bit...

I find that my problem is to get him under oath as soon as possible.

I don't really care where or particularly how.

If he gets immunity, that's fine.

If he gets all the more reason not to take a chance on furries, because he's got a better chance now of avoiding prison.

So it really doesn't matter too much.

Just so we can keep him on the hook.

And the same with the button.

Because that's what we're going to have to stop.

We're going to be able to stop him within the window.

And it's

We can lay weekly glass and get it down in the oven where we can lay it down and get it.

I'm just going to look into this cup.

And if it is the same committed, then I would like to make sure it's prepared.

We're going to be crossing salmon very sharply.

And effectively.

Effectively.

I think a lot can be done.

Well, they have to make it quarter first.

But I call them back for a while, and they go to Stanton.

And their schedule is pretty indefinite.

Stanton is a running for the state.

They have an original schedule.

Then they go to Marruder, to Colson.

The schedule is a couple of four days.

And they are, they're a little uncertain.

I think they might have a little bit of themselves.

This is very important.

They would like us to do it, but they aren't willing to do it.

They should.

And they'd like for us to ask them to do it, but I think it's a very bad tactic for us to ask them to do it.

So let them act on their own.

Okay.

Do they like us to ask them to do it?

Yes, sir.

They'd like so many people to do it.

Oh.

I told you.

No, in a way.

I want to get someone to drop this off.

Um, John Rose.

Very direct.

What do you think of the paper being on the White House request?

No, sir.

Sir, we're getting to that spot.

I'm trying to see if somebody would like to say no.

No, sir.

Sir.

This week, right where it is, I think they will never stop.

They won't wait, and the pressure won't stop.

Many things can happen that could go wrong on the right-hand side, and they're making a lot of noise at the same time.

They could very well get a very strong reaction.

You know, we could do it.

Well, we're going to have to wait and see what happens.

We're going to see.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

As I've said to it before, the Attorney General still works for the presidency.

He sure does.

And why does the presidency work for the presidency?

He's got to carry out things.

And I'm not even going to say something that's over there.

This is a very un-privileged thing to do.

Oh, well.

Passing over IDT.

What?

I think it will lead us nowhere.

Do you need a beard again?

Well, that's a... Well...

How much cops will get into it, I don't know.

The most recent event that I went to see before was the transfer of the records.

All right.

And that's... That is not anything that they ever want to use, and nothing like the public even understand what they're talking about.

Yeah.

So, um, it's collateral.

If he wants to waste the manpower rehashing that, like, he could go on forever.

It's a very...

It's hard to do something.

I'm sure that you're not going to do something.

We can't glance through all of it.

We have no problem with it.

I'm quite sure if I put it in post, I can't blame you.

You're going to have to get at this, call this guy, let's get going, and so on and so on.

There's nothing that would be harmful to us.

I've just glanced at it.

We're being uncharacteristic because sometimes they throw some lies at you.

or what thing he might have been doing at the time.

I see.

Because it was in the forefront.

These stories might have had a different reaction altogether from him than they had from you.

They did.

So it might be useful to him, and it will be useful to him.

Yeah.

It's very important for everybody to realize that if I report

I think it was .

He had .

And apparently somebody .

I want to find out from Peterson how he found it out.

I didn't find it out.

Peterson.

Peterson left the application for one month.

We were making a hard statement .

to learn from the brave young men that came to pay for the prostitution.

They learned in my career from that memorandum, which in that memorandum, would be delivered to me.

You see, saying that in the middle of March, this, we have learned in our investigation that, and what they have to know about it.

Right.

On that, Peter's very strong-minded in terms of, uh, being an old national security officer, too, in fact.

I wouldn't lie to him.

We found out, you know, when it was that Dean found out about this.

Apparently, he did not know that there were three different states in the elsewhere.

I mean, we should have done an appeal to Texas, but we need to find out.

I don't even believe he knew about that.

before the game happened.

You had a little chance to take the game.

You didn't know it that far.

I wouldn't even point that out.

He might have learned it from Peterson.

He would have.

He and Peterson were very close.

I think that, therefore, I hope not that he was very deadly that year.

I think he probably was.

And I don't want it to be, like I said, I want you to remember who you think Peter is.

I think he will be.

I hope he is, you know, a relationship.

He's very good.

He's been an honor to me.

And he's, that's not a random thing, but he's been an honor to me.

He told us that he was in pursuit of you.

Actually, I said, you're a stupid ass.

It was, it's been in the prosecutor's file from the beginning.

So he said he acted so nasty about it.

He said, I just told him what he could do.

I didn't tell him.

He said, I just told him what he could do.

He was trying to contain the dark side.

He was terribly concerned about the actual results of this before.

And, uh, you know what I mean?

He didn't know what they had to call because they didn't want to get people to call.

They didn't want to get people to call.

They probably didn't want to get people to call.

They probably didn't want to get people

There's no problem he has on our, on my case, not on your case, but on my case, except for the delay in getting those papers out to the judge.

But we didn't, that's the point.

And there's no problem.

And we held him back because of national security.

Well, there's really no problem with not sending him back down early.

Because he hasn't.

And he had already checked the Justice Department.

So that was done.

Checked that, and he asked me when I applied for the contract.

Well, he said, you know, well, we've been around that number before.

I know.

They might call three banks.

I doubt it's true if they don't call these banks.

You know, because they might be so bad to a bunch of people.

One way or the other.

I doubt if they'll call.

How much time they're going to waste.

How much time?

How much time they're going to waste.

And I expect their taxes to work this time.

Before they pay.

I don't know.

That's part of the campaign.

That's how he just about gave us the opportunity to do it.

Well, they got to talk to them and explain to them.

That's the time.

I don't think they have time.

I think they have to go to the county council.

I don't think they do.

They're all here right now.

It's been patched over most of them.

Oh, my God.

It's a big blow.

I mean, so far.

And, as we've said, we're very proud of that, Senator.

I think they've got a trend.

I think they've got a great trend.

We want to be prepared for whatever they get.

We will have somebody start working.

We really don't have anybody here now.

I meant, I was referring to the fact that it was good that you were going through this.

You've been through a lot of things.

That's okay, sir.

Yes, I have it on my desk right now.

Why?

To see whether I wrote the dean.

Just see if there's anything in there he could pretend or something to tie you to any awareness.

Why?

So we would be prepared.

You don't need to look at anything before you set up your plan.

Sure, I understand that.

But even in the days afterwards, we would like to be prepared so that if I can prepare me just to cross his ass.

that if one of these pieces of paper is something he purports to be used as a document, showing anything, that we have, we're as well prepared on it, we know it, and anticipate any possible construction people put on it, and be prepared to knock it down.

I understand.

I don't know.

What the hell is this guy doing?

Something like that.

I think it looks like that.

I don't know what's going on.

I want to say I didn't have it at one point.

I'm not going to say it.

You know, it wasn't the White House that we can't afford to deal with the FBI.

Somebody in the White House said, you get rid of the question mark, who?

You know, well, some of them were.

Why didn't you look at the period also, the period after that?

in the spring of 1773.

In the years... Well, that's really what we're talking about.

I don't know.

After Dean got to work on the Brady hearings, and Executive Kirby, you did note some of these things to Dean?

Yeah, I heard you.

If they concerned.

No, I met him.

I met him in 72.

I said nothing in 72.

Never to Dean.

I was not aware of Dean at that point.

I met with Dean, but all of them might have been bigger than Dean.

Charlie didn't matter.

And then, you know, Watergate, I sent it over to him.

Both, all of the notes are under Dean.

I haven't got anything to say because I'm sure he just went to 72.

Well, I suppose you could go back and see what it was like doing it.

We've got those.

I've got those, too.

Are there any of those, too?

I don't recall.

You see, because these things work, because you would come in, and then Holden would put a video, directions on there, who would call that technician, too.

And so he may have called some things, too.

I'm not going to point it.

there is where your credibility is

I was thinking when I asked for it, I don't care what it is, flatly that I'm right on anything that gets on with it.

Well, I think we have to look at the situation now.

I don't think we're going to get in a contest with you after Dean's accusation.

So I think the best way to handle that, we can give the work that's not on the set to them.

God said if we work this thing out for cross-examination, we can pose such a question without actually telling the committee any information that to deem they will be significant.

We can ask him things about his own testimony, because by that time we'll know in more detail precisely what was the plot of that meeting than he will probably recall.

If we ask him some very funny questions about these things, I believe he will at least think the information's back there and get him to forgive himself, you know.

I think we can't avoid constraining him on something because of that thing.

We appear to deem to be specific.

It would appear, whether they do or don't,

The committee has an awful lot more information.

So it's actually a question to be prepared by us.

But we don't necessarily know that.

I don't think that's the point.

And the people in front of us would become quite wary about getting too far off the track of the committee.

He'll be a very careful witness.

He's going to be a very careful witness.

And we want to make him as careful as possible.

Particularly if he hasn't entered, he's going to be a very careful witness to the employee.

It makes it look rather promising at the moment

Well, yeah, sure.

We've got, I think the attitudes have, uh, we've got to rush.

Yeah, we've got to rush pretty quick.

Then I can get up and break down some things.

Right.

Good.

Okay.

I will hold you.

Fine.

But the attitudes have made a difference.

There's some of a shift of attitudes, which you were mentioning.

I feel like, uh, those guys are, uh, I know these guys.

Larry's coming forward.

They know he wouldn't come forward if he was up 50 or something like that.

I think it will help.

If Bryce comes, I will give him one more.

I think, and I frankly think that the committee is going to find themselves the momentum increasing rapidly.

I increase the momentum of getting through the witnesses faster.

And they're going to have to where their shields are going to die.

That's right.

I think they're going to run out of hope.

They're talking about extending their stretcher.

I think when they run through, through stands, coasts, dams, all over the earth, all over the earth, they're at that point going to have a dead shoulder.

Absolutely.

And nobody's going to care about who did what.

That's right.

It's going to become very flat at that point.

They might go on for years.

But I'm not sure if they're going to get any of that.

They've got problems with public resistance.

So my person is going to get real mad about that.

I got that check.

I think it will get worse.

But people are just turned on for the night.

The strength of that is the sympathy reaction to this.

And we're getting a strange reaction, if you'll be understanding.

Getting reaction from some people on comedy or writing time.

The difference between the media comment about the hearings and what they get from the witnesses themselves.

We're seeing a substantial difference in that.

Yeah.

Of course.

And that's very interesting.

I remember just creating a credibility problem for the meeting of the meeting.

The meeting is beginning to develop a credibility problem.

Characterizing the testimony.

Somebody was signing the other day from Chicago.

He said, you know, we had done conferences.

describing this Harmony girl as a very uncooperative witness in the committee.

Yeah, I thought she was very uncooperative, but they were kind of easy on her anyhow.

And he had about a five-minute discussion with one of his colleagues about how uncooperative it sounds like.

And then Baker walked out, and they talked about it.

Baker treated her as uncooperative.

Baker walked out and he asked him for a comment.

He said, I thought she was very uncooperative.

I thought they

Well, he was all right with the president.

He was all right with the president.

He was all right on the television show.

That wasn't bad.

But his discomfort was in the paper.

And I thought it was a very bad thing.

But he said, well, it was generalized.

But he said, he discussed with you the suspicions of Mitchell early in...

1973.

Well, the precision of his words were not good.

He didn't say his suspicions with Mitchell.

He said he discussed with you his worries about Mitchell.

And later on, he said there that you asked for the evidence.

He was all mine and well, but his capable, the way he said he was capable of being taken out of context, misinterpreted, that he actually told you that you were involved, you know, which he tells me he didn't.

He said he was suspicious.

Right, it's the same way Dean said this guy's got a problem, this guy's got a problem.

Here's my best, I'm sure that he'd get spanned like a rock.

He gets up there, they've got to find out this fact, what the heck.

They conducted their investigation, and frankly, the fact they ran into these bunch of liars.

McGruder's a smooth liar.

He's a, you know what I mean.

And Dean put him up to it.

That's patient, right?

That's a very good thing.

One thing Patrick Lear said to me, I never met the man.

Now, there was no info from Ohio, so I'm not sure.

There might have been info from John Dean, but not from you.

The other thing is that it claims that I took that code.

He was utterly amazed when I said I'd only seen the assignment bill one other time in the whole year, Senator.

He said, you're kidding.

He said, he told us all the time that he spent sitting in your office.

So there's a little indication there.

I mean, there is.

I think this kind of thing has to be brought out in across the entire country.

Good.

Thank you, sir.

Don't worry with me with anything else I'm supposed to worry about.

Don't worry with me with anything else I'm supposed to worry.

Absolutely.

And right now, I see nothing else to say to you.

Well, with me, I think it's a big problem.

If we go on, the only thing that the team can do, let's face it, is we've got a piece of paper to look into something.

So maybe, what the heck, I write comments under something.

What are we doing here?

Can we do this?

Yes.

I've got a right, I've got a responsibility to do that, don't I?

And I frankly think, and I don't blame him, this is what he's using.

I don't think there's a devil in this connection.

I think the bubble shooting blinds with regard to his insinuation that he has any tapes.

I just don't think he has any tapes.

You know, we've lived with them, but

It's harder than he is today.

If you get down to the point where it's his word against the President's, we'll kill him.

Right?

I hope he never comes for that.

You know, it would be a terrible thing.

I'm going to stab him.

We'll be a revenge that for whatever happened.

I mean, you're not going to be, you're not going to be safe.

I'm telling you, sir.

So you've got a piece of paper going to the Senate, so maybe...

What the heck?

I write comments under something.

What are we doing here?

I don't know.

I've got to write.

I've got a responsibility to do that, don't I?

And I'm frankly saying, I don't blame him.

This is what he's using.

I don't think the fidelity in this connection is correct.

I think the bubble should be blank with regard to his insinuation of the evidence he keeps.

I don't know.

I just don't think he has any faith.

And we've lived with him, but it's harder than he has to say.

If you get down to the point, it was his word against the President's, we'll kill him.

Right?

I hope he never comes to that.

No, it would be a terrible thing.

I'm going to say that, but we'll be a revenge that will never happen.

Good luck with these.

Good luck with the signal.

Thank you, sir.