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Conversation: 475-021

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Start Date: 8-Apr-1971 1:12 PM

End Date: 8-Apr-1971 2:00 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Ziegler, Ronald L.Lewis, BryanPine, JeniferLittle, JamesHoffman, ErichCarswell, HarmanHorsley, SusanEags, CarolGellis, AmyWhite House photographerHaldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Bull, Stephen B.Strachan, Gordon C.Dempsey, JackDempsey, Jack (Mrs.)

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 03:24:31

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 04:23:35

475-021.mp3

NARA Description:

On April 8, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, Bryan Lewis, Jenifer Pine, James Little, Erich Hoffman, Harman Carswell, Susan Horsley, Carol Eags, Amy Gellis, White House photographer, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, Gordon C. Strachan, Jack Dempsey, and Mrs. Jack Dempsey met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:12 pm to 2:00 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 475-021 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 475-21

Date: April 8, 1971
Time: 1:12 pm - 2:00 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Ronald L. Ziegler, Bryan Lewis, Jenifer Pine, James Little, Erich
Hoffman, Harmon Carswell, Susan Horsley, Carol Eags, and Amy Gellis; the White House
photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting

     Greetings

     [General conversation]
          -Texas
          -Missouri
          -Introductions
          -Stephens College
          -University of Texas
          -Hometowns
                -Austin
                                                   31

                              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                           (rev. 9/08)




     Photo session
          -Oliver F. (“Ollie”) Atkins
          -Ziegler

     University of Texas football
          -Gift to the President
                -Picture                                              Conv. No. 475-20 (cont.)
          -[Forename unknown] Wooster [sp?]
          -Notre Dame

     Interested in politics

     Presentation of gifts
          -Paper weight
          -Presidential Seal

     Pictures

     Mood of country

Lewis, et. al. left at 1:17 pm; Ziegler remained

     President’s remarks at end of speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
          -Surprise
          -President’s decision to include remarks
                -Timing

H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman entered at 1:18 pm

                 -Notes
           -Staff
           -Decision
                 -Timing
           -Check with military aides
                 -Major General James D. (“Don”) Hughes
                 -Sergeant Karl Taylor’s son
                      -Name
                      -Age
                      -Kevin Taylor
                            -Salute
                 -Hughes’ response
                                              32

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)




     Dinner for W. Clement Stone, April 8, 1971
          -Foster G. McGaw, American Hospital Supply Corporation
          -Neal Ball
                -Appointment to Ziegler’s staff
          -McGaw
          -Ball’s qualifications
                -Deputy Press Secretary                          Conv. No. 475-21 (cont.)

     President’s speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
          -Extemporaneous nature of conclusion
                -Press
                      -United Press International [UPI]
                      -Washington Post
          -Story on Shirley Taylor
                -UPI
                -Son

     President’s meeting with K. Taylor
          -Brother
          -Karl (“Skipper”) Taylor, Jr.
                -Nickname “Skipper”
          -Possible news story
          -”Skipper”
          -Kevin Taylor’s salute
          -Hughes
          -”Skipper”

Ziegler left at 1:23 pm

     Poll results after President’s speech on Southeast Asia, April 7,l971
           -Rating
                 -Figures
                 -Compared to Columbia Broadcasting System’s [CBS] “60 Minutes”
           -Tricia Nixon

     President’s schedule, April 9, 1971
          -Paul W. McCracken
                -Composition of council
                      -George P. Shultz
          -David M. Kennedy
                -Trip
                                            33

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



              -California
         -John B. Connally
         -Church service
              -Duration
              -Phil Watts
              -Dr. John Harper
              -Pictures
              -Hughes                                             Conv. No. 475-21 (cont.)
              -Secret Service
              -Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon
              -Watts
              -Mrs. Nixon
              -President’s instructions to Haldeman
              -Dean Burch
              -Camp David
         -Cabinet meeting

    Camp David
        -Weather


******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 52s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

******************************************************************************


    Support for President by staff
        -Difficulties

    President’s meeting with William J. Casey
         -Postponement
         -Schedule
               -[April 14, 1971]
         -Swearing-in ceremony
               -[Casey as chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission]
         -Leonard W. Hall
                                              34

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



          -Bernard J. (“Bunny”) Lasker
          -Fred C. Scribner, Jr.

     Domestic briefing for administration wives, April 8, 1971
         -Mrs. Nixon
         -John D. Ehrlichman and Mrs. Nixon

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 1:23 pm         Conv. No. 475-21 (cont.)

     President’s schedule

     Gordon C. Strachan and family
         -Arrival
         -Background
               -Attorney for Nixon, Mudge

Bull left at an unknown time before 1:36 pm

     Strachan
          -Background
          -Work on staff
               -Jeb Stuart Magruder
               -Herbert G. Klein
                     -Schedule
                     -Speeches

     State visits
           -Henry A. Kissinger’s review
           -Changes in schedule
           -King [Moulay] Hassan II
                  -April
           -Josep Broz Tito
           -General Lon Nol
                  -August
           -Emilio Garrastazu Médici
                  -September
           -Tito
                  -Schedule
                  -October
           -Yakubu Gowon
                  -October
           -Indira Gandhi
                                                35

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



               -November
          -King Malik Faisal ibn Abd al-Aziz al-Saud
               -May or June
          -Willy Brandt
               -June
          -Leopold Sedar Senghor
          -Anastasio Somoza Debayle
               -State dinner                                           Conv. No. 475-21 (cont.)
               -Anniversary
                     -Twenty-fifth
               -Nicaragua
                     -Guillermo Sevilla Sacasa
               -Schedule
                     -Rogers
          -Thailand
          -Somoza Debayle
               -Graduation exercises
               -Luncheon with Maurice H. Stans
               -Dinner with President
          -Juan Velasco Alvarado
               -[Unintelligible name]
               -July
          -Lon Nol
               -Health
          -Agha Muhommad Yahya Khan
          -Emperor Hirohito of Japan
               -Kissinger
               -Schedule
               -Textile negotiations

Bull entered at an unknown time after 1:23 pm

     Introduction of Strachan and parents, Mr. and Mrs. Jack Dempsey

Bull left at an unknown time before 1:36 pm

Strachan and Mr. and Mrs. Dempsey entered at 1:36 pm; the White House photographer was
present at the beginning of the meeting

     Greetings

     Residence
                                                  36

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                          Tape Subject Log
                                             (rev. 9/08)



             -California
                   -Santa Rosa
                   -Valley of the Moon

     Education
         -Law school
               -University of Southern California
               -Berkeley                                          Conv. No. 475-21 (cont.)

     Photo session
          -Atkins

     Tour of White House grounds
          -Rose Garden
          -Tulips

     Presentation of Presidential gifts
          -Presidential Seal
          -Cufflinks

     Rose Garden

Strachan and parents left at 1:40 pm

     Strachan and parents

     President’s meeting with White House staff members
          -Unstructured basis

     Domestic briefing for administration wives, April 8, 1971
         -Complaints by unknown man
         -Upcoming briefing for Congressional wives at State Department

     Staff
             -Enthusiasm
             -Appointment of staff members
             -Need for loyalists
             -President’s speeches

     Press
             -Impact on administration families
             -Need for new staff
                                         37

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. 9/08)




News summaries
    -President’s instructions to Haldeman
          -Read and take action
    -President’s forthcoming interview by editors
    -Significance
    -”For your information”
    -President’s wish to focus on important matters       Conv. No. 475-21 (cont.)

President’s speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
     -Exercise at end
     -Effort in preparation
     -Staff
     -Story
     -Raymond K. Price, Jr.
     -Staff
     -Theodore (“Teddy”) Roosevelt
     -Story
     -Anecdote form

Administration women
    -President’s briefing
    -Attitude of wives
    -Social events
    -Women in general
          -Gossip
          -Attitude
    -Virginia H. Knauer
          -Loyalty to President
          -Professor “Higgins”
          -Role in government
    -Women in general
          -Clothes
          -Conversation
          -Social events
    -Social events
    -Idanell (Brill) (“Nellie”) Connally
    -Wives of Italian and Nicaraguan ambassadors
          -Giulia (Rossi) Ortona
          -Doña Lillian Somoza de Sevilla Sacasa
                -Somoza’s daughter
                                              38

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)




******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[National Security]
[Duration: 14s ]

                                                                Conv. No. 475-21 (cont.)
    FOREIGN AFFAIRS


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

******************************************************************************


              -D. L. S. de Sevilla Sacasa
         -Wife of British ambassador
              -Catherine (Dove) Freeman

    Domestic briefing for administration wives, April 8, 1971
        -Value

    Vietnam
         -President’s speech, April 7, 1971
               -Conclusion
               -Poll results
               -Rogers’ view
               -Administration’s policy
         -Hugh Scott
         -Emotion
         -Intellectuals

    President’s speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
         -President’s credibility
         -Effectiveness
         -Camera work
               -President’s pause
               -Impact
         -Chart
               -Effectiveness
               -Rogers’ chart
                                            39

                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                   Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 9/08)



                  -Graph
                  -Use of illustration of soldier
        -Audience
             -CBS
        -Ziegler’s report on press reaction
             -Possible criticisms by press
             -Laos
             -Credibility                                         Conv. No. 475-21 (cont.)
        -Connally’s response
             -Defense of Lyndon B. Johnson
        -Previous administration’s policies
        -Responsibility for involvement in Vietnam
        -1972 campaign
        -Charts
             -William L. Safire
             -Kissinger’s draft
             -Casualties
        -Rogers’ response
             -Contribution
             -Emotional impact
        -Reaction by “doves”
        -Possible poll by television
        -Opinion Research Corporation [ORC]
             -Tom Denham [sp?]
                    -Support for President
             -Release of results
                    -Timing
             -George H. Gallup
             -Lieutenant William L. Calley, Jr.
                    -President’s decision to review case
             -Demonstrations
             -Haldeman’s conversation with Denham [sp?]
             -Distribution of results to Senators and Congressmen
             -Republican National Committee

Polls
        -White House relations with ORC
             -Haldeman’s conversation with Denham [sp?]
                   -Refusal to tamper with figures
                   -Selective use of figures
        -David R. Derge and Charles E. Benton
        -Reactions to Calley actions by President
                                                40

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



          -Popular reaction
          -Calley case
          -Strength in Presidency
                -Contrast with Congress
                -Calley
                -Vietnam
                -Personal approval
          -Possible overstatement by President                 Conv. No. 475-21 (cont.)
                -Democratic Caucus
          -Approval of war
                -Figures
                -”Hawks”

     President speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
          -Polarization on Vietnam
          -Demonstrations
                -Supporters
                -Opponents

     President’s schedule
          -Florida
          -King [Moulay] Hassan II
          -Florida
          -Demonstrations
          -Daughters of the American Revolution [DAR] dinner
          -King Hassan II dinner
          -Florida
          -Chamber of Commerce meeting
          -Time-off period
                -Shultz

Bull entered at an unknown time after 1:40 pm

     David Rockefeller
          -Luncheon with President
          -President’s schedule

Bull left at an unknown time before 2:00 pm

     President’s schedule
          -Stone dinner
                -Questions and answers session
                                                41

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                           (rev. 9/08)



                  -Duration of dinner
                  -President presiding
             -Breakfast
             -Remarks at Stone dinner
                  -Questions and answers session
                        -Media response

     Polls                                                       Conv. No. 475-21 (cont.)
             -Rating on President’s speech on Southeast Asia
             -Emotion

Bull entered at an unknown time after 1:40 pm

     President’s schedule
          -Date
          -Executive Office Building [EOB]
          -Briefing
          -Stone dinner
                -Questions and answers session
          -Breakfast

Bull and Haldeman left at 2:00 pm