Conversation: 484-002
Prev: 484-001 Next: 484-003Start Date: 21-Apr-1971 8:57 AM
End Date: 21-Apr-1971 11:16 AM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Dent, Harry S.; Bull, Stephen B.; Harlow, Bryce N.; Ehrlichman, John D.; Mitchell, John N.; Richardson, Elliot L.; Morgan, Edward L.; Shultz, George P.; Nixon, Richard M. (President); Dent, Harry S.; Bull, Stephen B.; Harlow, Bryce N.; Ehrlichman, John D.; Mitchell, John N.; Richardson, Elliot L.; Morgan, Edward L.; Shultz, George P.;Recording Device: Oval Office
Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 00:02:07
Full Tape Conversation End Time: 02:16:40
NARA Description:
On April 21, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Harry S. Dent, Stephen B. Bull, Bryce N. Harlow, John D. Ehrlichman, John N. Mitchell, Elliot L. Richardson, Edward L. Morgan, and George P. Shultz met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:57 am to 11:16 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 484-002 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 484-2
Date: April 21, 1971
Time: 8:57 pm - 11:16 am
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Harry S. Dent
Supreme Court decision on school desegregation
-Dent’s attitude
-Raymond K. Price, Jr.
-President’s attitude
-Ronald L. Ziegler
-Press conference, April 20, 1971
-Bryce N. Harlow
-Racial balance
-Limitation
-The North
-Harlow
-Location
-Meeting with the President
Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 8:57 am
2
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Harlow
-Schedule
-Meeting with the President
-Location
Bull left at an unknown time before 9:17 am
Supreme Court decision Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 6m 19s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
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Polls
-President's ratings
-South
Supreme Court decision
-Impact
-Warren E. Burger and Harry A. Blackmun
-Effects on administration
-Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW]
-President's forthcoming meeting with John N. Mitchell and Elliot L. Richardson
-Opinion
-Mitchell's view
-Flexibility
-President's position
-Emergency school aid bill
-Senate
-Abraham A. Ribicoff's amendment
-Jacob K. Javits
-Edmund S. Muskie, Hubert H. Humphrey, and Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
-Javits
3
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-New York
-Integration
-President's possible position
-The South
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Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 1m 30s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
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Supreme Court decision
-School issue
-Race
-Impact on administration
-Burger
-Criminal law
-Race
-Burger
-Earl Warren
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 1m 53s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
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4
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Dent's speaking tour
-Conversation with Charles W. Colson
-Washington Post
-President's public standing
-Media
-Administration spokesmen
-Sub-cabinet people
-Selling the president Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Activities in West Virginia
-Television
-Speeches
-Groups
-Size
-Impact
-Revenue sharing
-Vietnam
Bull entered at an unknown time after 8:57 am
The President's schedule
-Harlow
Bull left at an unknown time before 9:17 am
Dent's speaking tour
-President's speeches
-Opposition to the President
-Eastern establishment
Harlow entered at 9:17 am
Dent's schedule
-Democrat Congress
-Popular perceptions
-Need for administration action
-Activities in West Virginia
-Press
-Television
-Schedule
-Miami
-New Orleans
-Need for publicity
5
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Popular support for the President
-Preoccupations
-Normal instincts
-Confusion
-President's program
-Image of the President
-Patriotism Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Need for “missionaries” in field
-Total picture
-Media
-Average American
-Press
-Filter
Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
-Standing in country
-Questions to Dent
-Republican Governors' Conference, Williamsburg, Virginia, April 19, 1971
-Resolution
-Revenue sharing
-Welfare reform
Governors' Conferences
-Frequency
-Western
-Republicans
-National
-Frequency
Agnew
-Standing in Dent's area
-Popular perception
Supreme Court decision on school desegregation
-Administration's possible response
-President's upcoming meeting with Mitchell and Elliot L. Richardson
-Administration's position
-Courts
-HEW
-Burger
-Ziegler's press statement, April 20, 1971
6
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Impact
-President's response
-Impact
-President's position
-Busing for racial balance
-Law of the land
-President’s statement about desegregation of elementary and secondary
schools, March 24, 1970 Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Opinion
-Mitchell
-Narrowness
-Burger
-President's meeting with Mitchell and Burger
-Busing
-Opinion
-Mitchell
-Racial balance
-Freedom of choice issue
-Reversal of President’s stated position
-Effect on South
-Enforcement
-Burger
-Warren
-Distribution to Southern editors
-Northern press
-Possible Justice Department interpretation
-Robert C. Mardian
-President's position
-Press inquiries to the President
-Publicizing President’s position
-Southern opinion
-President’s March 24, 1970 statement
-Administration's strategy
-Washington Post story
-President's position
-Upcoming Senate vote
-Ribicoff amendment
-Javits
-Democrat candidates
-Muskie, Kennedy, and Humphrey
-Ribicoff amendment
-Ribicoff's position
7
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Administration's position
-Impact on South
-Ribicoff amendment
-Enforcement of principle
-Sectional differences
-Upcoming Senate vote
-Figures on integration
-Washington Post writers Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Black schools in South
-Percentages of integration
-South and North comparison
-Polarization of black schools in the North
-President's position
-Sectionalism
-Busing
-Practical consequences
-Ribicoff amendment
-Possible political consequences of opposing
-George C. Wallace
-Burger
-President's 1969 letter to John C. Stennis
-Effect on Democrat candidates
-Javits
-Upcoming Senate vote
-Northern liberals
-Southerners
-Stennis amendment
-Ribicoff amendment
-Effect on the President's position
-Regional decision
-Ribicoff amendment
-Racial balance
-De facto segregation
-De jure segregation
-Impact on Southerners
-Richardson
-Possible administration position
-Impact on education
Bull entered at an unknown time after 9:17 am
-H.R. Haldeman
8
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Bull left at an unknown time before 9:53 am
-Effect on the President
-Richardson's possible opinion
-Ribicoff amendment
-De facto segregation Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Administration's possible response
-Difficulties
-Effect on blacks
-Black colleges and teachers
-Dent's meeting with the President's black appointees
-Robert J. Brown, Jr.
-Richardson
-College desegregation
-Black institutions of higher learning
-Arthur A. Fletcher
-Samuel C. Jackson
-Tax credits
-President's position
-Segregation in educational institutions
-Federal funds
-Colleges
-Bob Jones University
-Open door policy
-Affirmative action
-Racial balance in colleges
-Open door policy
-Black institutions
-Fraternity
-Hypocrisy
-Racial issue
-Ribicoff's opinion
-Administration's policy towards the South
-”Southern strategy”
-Leonard Garment's view regarding education bill
-Administration's position
-Ribicoff amendment
-Javits
-Hugh Scott
9
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 39s ]
Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
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Scott
-Position on integration
-Howard H. Baker, Jr.
-Roman L. Hruska
-Baker
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Privacy]
[Duration: 1m 12s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
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Agriculture Department
-Farm situation
-Clifford M. Hardin
-Possible reassignment
-Clarence D. Palmby
-Harlow
-Palmby
-President's meeting with agriculture editors, April 20, 1971
-President’s comments
-Great American Desert
10
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Heartland of America
-Dent's conversations with farm leaders
-Public relations at Department of Agriculture
-Palmby
-Exports
-J. Philip Campbell
-Congress
-Hardin's proposed projects Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Budget
Bull entered at an unknown time after 9:17 am
The President's schedule
-Meeting with Mitchell, John D. Ehrlichman, Richardson, and Edward L. Morgan
-Dent and Harlow
-Schedule
Bull left at an unknown time before 9:53 am
Agriculture Department
-Hardin
-Tenure
Dent left and Mitchell, Ehrlichman, and Richardson entered at 9:53 am
Greetings
Richardson's trip
Supreme Court decision
-Southern school problem
-George P. Shultz
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 37s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
11
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
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Supreme Court decision
-Impact on administration
-Richardson's staff
-Need for review
-Education plans
-Courts Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Rural districts
-Cities
-South
Morgan entered at 9:56 am
-Racial balance
-Busing
-Court's intention
-Charlotte concept
-Racial balance
-Desegregation process
-MecKlenburg case
-James B. McMillan
-Ratios
-Busing concept
-Numbers of students
-Racial balance decision
-President's position
-Administration's position
-Divisions within administration
-President’s own record
-Hypocrisy
-Stennis-Ribicoff amendment
-Double standards
-School bill
-President's press conferences
-Discrimination in schools
-North and South compared
-One rule nationwide
-HEW and Justice Department
-Pasadena, Westchester
-Busing
-Legal position
12
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Shultz entered at 10:00 am
-Legal Aspects
-Civil Rights Act of 1964
-Title VI
-Fourteenth Amendment
-Segregated education in North Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Derivation from official action
-Fourteenth Amendment
-Words and action
-Possible statement
-Principle
-Percentages of integration
-North and South
-Senate
-Stennis
-Equal treatment of North & South
-Hypocrisy
-Segregated schools
-Busing
-Advocacy within administration
-Compliance
-Court's requirements
-The South
-Integration level compared to North
-President’s instructions
-Discipline within Justice Department and HEW
-White House involvement
-Enforcement of Court's opinion within administration
-Possible future decisions of courts
-The South
-Double standard
-Northern segregated cases
-Ribicoff-Stennis debate
-Possible future actions of district courts
-Possible adverse effects in the South
-Administration's position
-Court responsibilities
-Justice Department and HEW
-Initiatives
-Comply with law
13
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Proactive measures
-Voluntary integration plans
-HEW negotiations
-Terms
-President's memo, March 24, 1969
-Court order
-Jurisdiction
-Possible suits Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Administration’s possible policy
-Charlotte-MecKlenburg case
-Judge McMillan
-Mobile, Alabama case
-Administration contacts with school districts
-Justice Department and HEW cooperative efforts
-Mitchell
-State advisory committees
-Reexamination of cases
-Administration-school districts dialogue
-Number of districts involved
-Voluntary negotiated plans
-Number
-School districts
-Mitchell's opinion
-The South
-Cities
-Rural districts
-Blacks
-Black schools
-Impact of Court's decision
-Advisory committees
-Civil Rights Act, Title IV
-Education office
-Court-ordered integration plans
-HEW
-Assistance
-Impact on federal government
-Zoning and busing
-Court determination
-HEW recommendations
-Taking initiative
-Enforcement within HEW and Justice Department
-Civil Service
14
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Negotiated plans
-HEW
-National Association for the Advancement of Colored People [NAACP]
-Possible HEW and Justice Department initiatives
-Court-ordered negotiated plans
-HEW position
-Suits
-Administration Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Citizens groups
-Effect on blacks
-Press
-Landmark decision
-President's position
-Administration compliance
-HEW and Justice Department
-Initiatives
-Voluntary agreements
-Voluntary negotiated plans
-Duration
-Court provisions
-Eradication of segregation
-Districts
-Segregation
-Official action
-Previously negotiated plans
-Need for administrative study
-Case by case basis
-Possible administration initiatives
-The South
-Negotiated plans
-Compliance
-Possible administration initiatives
-Administration actions, summer 1970
-The South
-Administration policy
-Wallace
-Southern Senators
-Politics
-President's responsibility
-Advisory committees
-The South
-Possible effect on South
15
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Shultz's and Richardson's meetings with district leaders
-Administration's position
-Proactive measures
-The South
-Richardson's and Mitchell's possible conversations with administration’s citizens
committees
-Press conferences
-HEW and Justice Department officials Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Attorney General, HEW Secretary
-Administration compliance
-Busing
-Avoidance of jealousness
-Javits
-Westchester, Nassau, Brooklyn Heights
-Ribicoff-Stennis amendment
-Possible Senate action
-Richardson's conversation with Javits
-Richardson’s compromise with Claiborne Pell and Walter F. Mondale
-Richardson's conversation with Garment
-Richardson's possible letter
-Senate Committee on Labor and Public Welfare
-Harrison A. Williams, Jr.
-Javits
-Pell
-Winston L. Prouty
-Ribicoff amendment
-Merits
-Provisions
-Use of funds
-Possible interpretations in the South
-Administration's position
-Richardson's possible letter to Senate Committee
-Richardson's staff meeting, April 21, 1971
-Mitchell
-Ribicoff amendment
-Possible Senate action
-Southerners
-Funding of integration
-Interpretation
-Hearings
-Ten year program on two year bill
-Constitutional arguments
16
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-De facto/de jure
-Richardson's possible letter
-Ribicoff amendment
-Lack of position
-Emergency school aid bill
-Separation from amendment
-The South and North
-Shultz Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Consequences of decision
-Discrimination against the South
-Burger's opinion
-All-black schools
-Figures
-1969 compared with 1971 percentages
-The North
-Burger
-Division in the Court
-Ribicoff amendment
-Discrimination against the South
-Busing
-Richardson's possible initiatives
-Low key approach
-President's forthcoming press conference
-Treatment of the South
-Desegregation
-Ribicoff amendment
-Merits
-Community school aid legislation
-Hearings
-Emergency school aid bill
-Desegregation
-House amendment
-Administration's position
-Merits
-Potential difficulties for President
-Ribicoff amendment
-The South
-Cabinet officers
-Stennis and Ribicoff proposals
-Fundamental justice
-Richardson's possible letter to Senate Committee
-Richardson’s opinion
17
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-De facto segregation
-Evenhandedness
-North and South
-Equal treatment
-Ribicoff amendment
-Support in House and Senate
-Merits of immediate legislation
-Ribicoff amendment Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Emergency school aid bill
-Urge passage
-Ribicoff amendment
-Effect on aid
-Urge rejection
-The South
-Administration's position regarding de facto segregation
-Possible press reaction
-President's position
-1968 election promise
-The South
-Evenhandedness
-Principle
-Richardson's possible letter to Senate Committee
-Evenhanded policy
-Los Angeles County school district
-Attorney General
-Supreme Court
-De facto segregation
-Possible press reaction
-Emergency school aid bill
-Possible press reaction
-Procedure
-Hearing
-Evenhandedness
-Emergency
-Short-term frame
-North and South
-Ribicoff amendment
-Emergency school aid bill
-Evenhandedness
-Timing
-Ribicoff and Stennis proposal
-Purpose
18
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Effect on emergency school aid bill
-Possible Senate action
-Burger
-Los Angeles case
-Constitutional doctrine
-Desegregated education
President's schedule Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Visit of ping-pong team
Richardson's position regarding South
-Difficulties
-HEW
-Use of advisory committees
Supreme Court decision
-Administration policy
-Press statements
-Richardson and Mitchell
-Possible press inquiries
-Compliance with the law
-Instructions for Ronald L. Ziegler
-Need for HEW and Justice Department study of decision
-Compliance with the law
-The South
-Need for leadership
-Richardson and Mitchell
-White House role
-Ehrlichman
-Compliance with the law
-Administration's position
-The South
The South
-Demagoguery
-Wallace
-Southern Senators
-View of administration
Supreme Court decision
-Administration's position
-Avoiding headlines
-Richardson's and Mitchell's possible public statements
19
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Desegregation and the South
-President's possible statement
-Progress
-Compliance with the law
-Integration efforts
-Compared with the North
-Court requirements Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Compliance with the law
-Need for compassion
-Javits
-Northern Congressmen and Senators
-Javits
-View of administration policy
Supreme Court decision
-Richardson's possible letter to Senate Committee
-Stennis amendment
-Administration's position
-Senate action
Richardson's upcoming speech to NAACP
-Ink fund
-William T. Coleman, Jr.
-Productivity commission
-Felix Frankfurter law clerk
-Richardson’s possible comments
-The President’s suggested comments for Richardson
-Liberals
-Northern politicians
-Progress
-De jure segregation in the South
-Courts
-Voluntary strides made by the South
-Percentages of integration
-North compared with South
-Schools
-Cooperation and good will
-Jobs
-Promotions
-Minority enterprise
-Appointments in government
20
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Demagoguery on race issue
-American politics
-Republican and Democrat Parties
-Rhetoric in party platforms
Race issue
-Use Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Solution
-President's meetings with different groups in White House
-Personalizing
-Progress
-Implementation of Supreme Court decision
-In spirit and letter
-Cooperation versus coercion
-Compliance with the law
-NAACP
-Roy Wilkins
-Harlow and Shultz
Welfare bill
-H.R. 1
-Prospects
-Liberals
Education bill
-Conservatives
-Southerners
-Richardson's possible letter to Senate Committee
Morgan, Shultz, Richardson, and Harlow left at 11:03 am
Richardson
-Qualifications
-Intelligence
-Loyalty
-Finch
The President's conversation with Haldeman and Mitchell, April 20, 1971
-Mardian
-Staff
21
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Supreme Court decision
-President's position
-Richard A. Moore
-Credit
-The South
-Ribicoff amendment
Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
Demonstrations by veterans
Supreme Court decision
-Burger
-Rationale
-Compromise
-Justice and Ehrlichman
-President's conversation with Dent
-Racial balance
-Busing
-Publicizing
-Black schools and white schools
-Edward L. Morgan
-Administration research paper
-Circulation
[Transcript #5: A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under
court order from December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums,
et al. v. James M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records
Administration produced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]
[End of transcript]
Vietnam veterans
-Article
-W. Ramsey Clark
22
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
[Privacy]
[Duration: 21s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7 Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
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-[Tom C. Clark]
-Court
Stanley R. Resor
-Judge Advocates General
-Captain Davis [Forename unknown] [Captain Aubrey M. Daniel, III]
-Draft letter
-Resor's view
-Reviewing officer
Resor’s draft
-Davis’ [Daniel’s] career
-Administration options
-General Counsel, Department of Defense
-White House Counsel
-President’s instruction
-Tenure
-Ziegler's view
-Acknowledgment
-Davis [Daniel]
-Acknowledgment of letter
-Reviewing officer
-John W. Dean, III
-Dean's assistant
-Possible wording
Supreme Court decision
-School cases
-Possible consequences of improper comments
Donald E. McLarnan
-Possible removal from office
23
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Small Business Administration [SBA]
-Henry Salvatori
-F. Donald Nixon
-Hilary Sandoval, Jr.
-Thomas Kleppe
-Need for discipline
Supreme Court decision Conv. No. 484-2 (cont.)
-Administration response
-Ehrlichman
-Richardson
-Bureaucratic response
-Off-the-record remarks
-Complexity
-Need for study
-Briefing for Ziegler
Schedule
-Meeting at 4:00 pm
Ehrlichman and Mitchell left at 11:16 am