Conversation: 485-004
Prev: 485-003 Next: 485-005Start Date: 21-Apr-1971 4:18 PM
End Date: 21-Apr-1971 6:13 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Mitchell, John N.; Ziegler, Ronald L.; Sanchez, Manolo; White House operator; Saxbe, William B.; [Unknown person(s)];Recording Device: Oval Office
Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 00:38:24
Full Tape Conversation End Time: 02:31:32
NARA Description:
On April 21, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, John N. Mitchell, Ronald L. Ziegler, Manolo Sanchez, White House operator, William B. Saxbe, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:18 pm to 6:13 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 485-004 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 485-4
Date: April 21, 1971
Time: 4:18 pm - 6:13 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John N. Mitchell at 4:18 pm
[Transcript #1: A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under
court order from December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums,
et al. v. James M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records
Administration produced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]
[End of transcript]
Black Panther meeting
11
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 6m 35s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
**********************************************************************
Campaign practices and finances
-Rita E. Hauser
-Infiltration
-Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey, Jr.
-Activities in 1968
-Nelson Rockefeller
-Infiltration
-Common Cause
-Money
-Herbert V. Kalmbach
-Cash
-Bank deposits
-Pledges
-Role
-Richard G. Kleindienst
Ronald L. Ziegler entered at 4:31 pm
[Transcript #2: A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under
court order from December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums,
et al. v. James M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records
Administration produced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]
[End of transcript]
12
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
The President's previous meeting with Graham B. Steenhoven
Steenhoven
-Meeting with the press
-Remarks
-Position at Chrysler Corporation
-Meeting with the President
Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
Economy
-Consumer Price Index [CPI]
-Upcoming briefing
Ziegler left at 4:38 pm
-George P. Shultz
-Paul W. McCracken
-Rise
-Quarter
-Compared with 1970
-Evaluation
-Critics
-Confidence
-Weather
-Retail sales
-Easter
-Home furnishings
-Automobiles
-Housing starts
-Importance
-Retail sales
-Inventories
Campaign financing
-Kalmbach
-Role
-Fund raising
13
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 39s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2 Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
**********************************************************************
Ray C. Bliss
-Possible appointment
-Ambassador
-Part-time commission
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 1m ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
**********************************************************************
Schedule
-4-H Club leaders
-Tour of Rose Garden
-White House visitors
-Mitchell and Elliot L. Richardson arrival at work
-Executive Office Building [EOB]
-4-H Club leaders
-Rose Garden
-View of the President's office
-Glass
14
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
The President's schedule, April 21, 1971
Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon's schedule
-Visitors to White House
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4 Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 6m 39s ]
MANOLO SANCHEZ ENTERED AT AN UNKNOWN TIME AFTER 4:38 PM
SANCHEZ LEFT AT AN UNKNOWN TIME BEFORE 4:59 PM
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
**********************************************************************
-Busing
Supreme Court decision on school busing
-The South
-Newspaper editorials
-Washington Post
-Rebuff of Attorney General and President
-New York Times
-Harry S. Dent
-Mailings
-Warren E. Burger
-Mitchell's conversation with Southern Congressmen and Senators, April 20, 1971
-Reaction
-Burger
-Supreme Court
-Abraham A. Ribicoff’s amendment
-Democrat Presidential candidates
-Absence from vote
-Ribicoff’s amendment
-Byrd
-Hubert H. Humphrey
15
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Birch Bayh
-Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
-Edmund S. Muskie
-George S. McGovern
-Vote for
-Bayh, Humphrey, Kennedy, McGovern, Muskie
-Defeat
-Vote Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 3m 10s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
**********************************************************************
Charles H. Percy
-Support of the President's Vietnam policy
-Discussion with veterans
-Withdrawal of troops
-Ending war
-Instruction for Haldeman
-Telephone to express President’s appreciation
16
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 52s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6 Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
**********************************************************************
Unknown person
-Right
-Adolf Hitler
-Father
-Arthur S. Flemming
Arthur S. Fleming
-Relations with John W. Gardner
-New Republic
-Dent
-Conference on aging
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 27s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
**********************************************************************
James A. Rhodes
-Assignment
-Educational commission
-Vocational education
-Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW]
17
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Vocational training
-Frederic V. Malek
William B. Saxbe
-Appearance on "Today" show, April 21, 1971
-Views on McCloskey
-Mitchell
Meeting with Saxbe Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
-Richard G. Kleindienst
-Judgeship
-Appointments
-Television appearance
-Son in Vietnam
-Defense of the President
-Ardath Louise Saxbe's view
-Views on McCloskey
The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 4:38 pm and
4:59 pm
[Conversation No. 485-4A]
[See Conversation No. 2-24]
[End of telephone conversation]
Saxbe
-Compared with Robert A. Taft, Jr.
-Appearance on "Today" show
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 1m 27s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8
**********************************************************************
18
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
The President talked with Saxbe between 4:59 pm and 5:02 pm
[Conversation No. 485-4B]
[See Conversation No. 2-25]
[End of telephone conversation] Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 1 m 22s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10
**********************************************************************
Louie B. Nunn
-Welfare reform
-Letter from the President
-Ambassadorial appointments
-John Hay (“Jock”) Whitney
-Spain
-Age
-Spain
-Robert C. Hill
-Political aspirations
-Whitney
-Mitchell's schedule
-Trip to Kentucky
-Martha Mitchell
-Whitney
Whitney
-Ambassadorial appointment
-Qualifications
-Spanish language
19
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Nunn
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 12
[National Security]
[Duration: 37s ] Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
SPAIN
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 12
**********************************************************************
-Qualifications
Ambassadorial appointments
-The establishment
-Contributions
-Whitney
-Nickname of cousin
-"Sonny"
John and “Sonny” Whitney
-Relationship
******************************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 27
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 57s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 27
******************************************************************************
20
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Mitchell's schedule
-Whitney dinner
-Dallas
-Southern Methodist University [SMU] law school
**********************************************************************
Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 13
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 17s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 13
**********************************************************************
******************************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 28
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 31s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 28
******************************************************************************
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 14
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 6m 53s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 14
**********************************************************************
21
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Investigation
-Law Enforcement Assistance Administration [LEAA]
-Florida
-Possible indictment
-Claude R. Kirk, Jr.
-Kirk's staff
-Minutes and reports Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
-Jerris Leonard
-Reubin O. Askew
-Kirk
-Residence
-Business affairs
-Law
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 15
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 5m 31s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 15
**********************************************************************
Middle East
-Israel
-Golda Meir
-William P. Rogers's forthcoming trip
-Possible effect on votes
-Arabs
-Rogers
-Henry A. Kissinger
-State Department
22
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 17
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 1m 26s ]
Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 17
**********************************************************************
-James L. Buckley
Buckley
-Speechwriter
-Speech
-Special revenue sharing
-Support for the President's Vietnam policy
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 18
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 5m 3s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 18
**********************************************************************
Common cause
-Contributors
-Howard Stein
-Kissinger
-John N. (“Jack”) Irwin, II
-Mitchell’s list
-Irwin
23
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 5:02 pm
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 19
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 29s ] Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 19
**********************************************************************
The unknown man left at an unknown time before 6:13 pm
Common cause
-Contributors
-Stein
-Irwin
-Arthur K. Watson
-Irwin
-Under secretary of State
-Tenure
-Irwin Miller
-Lists of members
-Internal Revenue Service [IRS]
Stein
-Instructions for Kissinger
-Call to Kissinger
-President's speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
-Stock market
-Rise
-Rogers
Raymond P. Safer
-Appointment to bench
-Circuit Court
-Hugh Scott and Richard S. Schweiker
-Pennsylvania
24
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Marijuana Commission
-Career
-Legal background
-Qualifications
**********************************************************************
Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 20
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 2m 25s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 20
**********************************************************************
Treasury Department
-Democrats
-A.G. Becker
-Assignment
-Agricultural financing program
-Humphrey
-Dean Burch
-Maurice H. Stans
-Peter M. Flanigan
-Charles E. Walker
-John B. Connally
Instructions for Kissinger
-Call to Stein
25
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 21
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 14s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 21 Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 22
[Privacy]
[Duration: 41s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 22
**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 23
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 34s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 23
**********************************************************************
Case
-Clifford P. Case's remarks
-Support of the President's Laotian position
-Principles
26
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
New Jersey
-Department of Justice task force
-Democrats
Youth
-William E. Brock, III's plan
-Robert H. Finch
-Recommendation for President Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
-William G. Milliken
-Michigan legislature
-Age of majority
-18-year olds
-Right to vote
-Age of majority
-Action by Vermont legislature
-The President's position
-George D. Aiken's proposal
-College students
-18-21 year-old group
-Brock's plan
-Forthcoming report
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 24
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 3m 31s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 24
**********************************************************************
Youth
-Brock's plan
-Harvard University
-University of Chicago
-University of California in Los Angeles [UCLA]
-Texas A & M University
-Colleges
27
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
The President's meeting with Texas A & M choir
-Support for the President
California
-Yorba Linda college
-Compare to Harvard University
-Support for the President Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
Youth
-4-H groups
-Age of majority
-Possible administration position
-Endorsement
-Legality
-Possible reaction
-Analogy
-Possible future visits to People’s Republic of China [PRC]
Office of Emergency Preparedness [OEP]
-Need for “salesman”
-The President’s view
-National Security Council [NSC]
-Stockpiles
-National security
-Foreign policy
-”Salesman” for the President
-Speeches
-George A. Lincoln
-Oil quotas
-Petroleum chemicals
-Natural disasters
-California earthquake
-Texas drought
-Resignation
-Timing
-Corporations
-Stans
-Qualifications for director
-Foreign policy salesman
-McGeorge Bundy
-Darrell M. Trent
28
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Flanigan
-Prejudices
-Purpose of office
-Political benefits
-Donald H. Rumsfeld
-Directorship
-Rumsfeld
-Cabinet Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
-NSC
-Lincoln
-Performance
-Authority
-Sensitivity
Clifford M. Hardin
-Replacement
-Performance
-Need for “salesman”
-Farm country
-Job offer
-Purdue University
-Dilemma
-President of Purdue
-President's forthcoming attendance at retirement dinner, June 24, 1971
-Dr. Frederick L. Hovde
-Possible candidate
-Performance
-Replacement
-Timing
-Announcement
-Implementation
-Successor
-”Salesmen” in Cabinet
-Replacement
-Bryce N. Harlow
-Qualifications
-Confirmation
-Possible problem
-Qualifications for Secretary of Agriculture
-Successor
-Harlow
-Murray Spitzer
29
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-American Farm Bureau Federation [AFBF]
-National Farmers Union [NFU]
-Clarence D. Palmby
-J. Philip Campbell
-Southerner
-Campbell
-Unknown person
-Californian Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
-Ralph Bundy [?]
-Age
-Ronald W. Reagan
-Unknown man
-Harlow
-Oklahoma
-Qualifications
Harlow
-Congress
-Relationship with farm groups
-Agricultural bills
-Dwight D. Eisenhower's administration
-Relations with farm groups
Lincoln
-Replacement
-Possible successor
OEP
-Directorship
-Importance
-Cabinet
-Kissinger, Rogers, and Melvin R. Laird
-NSC
-Oil problems
-Corporations
-Robert B. Anderson
-Bert S. Cross
-[David] Kenneth Rush
Rush
-Possible reassignment
-Central Intelligence Agency [CIA]
30
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-State Department
-Rogers
-Under secretary of State
-Value
-Possible reassignment
CIA
-Richard M. Helms Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
-Tenure
Kissinger's dinner at Joseph W. Alsop's
-Poll at table
-Article by Alsop, April 21, 1971
-Poll
-Results
-Vote
-Marilyn B. ("Missy") Chandler
-Attendees
-Robert S. McNamara
-Katharine L. Graham
-Benjamin C. Bradlee
-Stewart J.O. Alsop
-Joseph W. Alsop
-Alice Roosevelt Longworth
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 25
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 39s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 25
**********************************************************************
31
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
CIA
-Helms
-Tenure
-Graham
-Bradlee
-Kissinger
-Lt. Gen. Robert E. Cushman, Jr. Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
-Reassignment
-Marine Corps
-Vacancy
-Helms
-Military
-Mitchell’s conversation with Kissinger
-Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters
-Role
-Intelligence
-Cushman
-Value
-Qualifications
-Walters
-Dedication to the President
-Role
-Reassignment
Rush
-Possible reassignment
-Berlin negotiation
-Agreement
-Role
-Children
-Qualifications
-Connally
Connally
-Performance
Rush
-Possible reassignment
-Kissinger
-Berlin negotiations
-Mitchell's meeting with Kissinger
32
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
CIA
-Walters
-Possible assignment
-Helms
-Qualifications
-Role
-Assistance to White House Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
The President's schedule
-Dr. W. Kenneth Riland
Instruction for Mitchell
-Possible replacement for Hardin
[Transcript #3: A transcript of the following portion of the conversation was initially prepared
for the Watergate Special Prosecution Force [WSPF] and can be found in Record Group [RG]
460. The Nixon Presidential Materials Staff has reviewed the transcript and has made changes
as necessary. This transcript has been reviewed under the provisions of the Presidential
Recordings and Materials Preservation Act of 1974 [PRMPA]. The National Archives does not
guarantee its accuracy.]
[End of transcribed portion]
Anti-trust
-Television networks and other unknown suit
-Mitchell’s call from unknown person
-Administration's position
-Pentagon
-Benefits
-Motion picture industry
-President's position
-Timing
-Consequences
-Administration
-Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
-Politics
-Possible public reaction
-Timing
-"Selling of the Pentagon"
-Motion picture industry
-Credit
33
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Taft Schreiber
-Networks
-Motion picture industry
-Timing
-Networks
-Richard A. Moore
-Consent decree
-Mood Conv. No. 485-4 (cont.)
-ITT
-Consequences
-McCracken
-Connally and Stans
-McLaren
-Flanigan
-Administration's policy
The President, Mitchell, and Haldeman left at 6:13 pm