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Conversation: 579-015

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Start Date: Tuesday, September 28, 1971 9:51 PM

End Date: Tuesday, September 28, 1971 10:42 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Nixon, Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan)Kissinger, Henry A.White House operatorColson, Charles W.

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 04:13:20

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 04:59:55

579a.mp3

579b.mp3

579c.mp3

NARA Description:

On September 28, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, White House operator, and Charles W. Colson met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:51 pm and 6:42 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 579-015 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 579-15
                                             49

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)



Date: September 28, 1971
Time: Unknown between 5:51 pm and 6:42 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

     Vietnam
          -National League of Families
               -Henry A. Kissinger's statement for the President
                     -The President's position
                          -Prisoners of war [POWs] families
                          -Raymond K. Price, Jr.
                          -Summary

The President talked with Mrs. Nixon between 5:53 pm and 5:54 pm.

[Conversation No. 579-15A]

[See Conversation No. 10-18; one item has been withdrawn from the conversation]

[End of telephone conversation]

Kissinger entered at 5:55 pm.

     Mansfield amendment
         -F. Edward Hebert
               -Vote in House of Representatives
         -Gerald R. Ford
         -Leslie C. Arends
         -Hebert
         -Carl D. Albert
               -Conversation with the President
         -Hebert
         -Ford
         -Arends
         -Ford's views
         -Draft
         -The President's administration
               -Effort towards passing legislation
                    -Ford
         -Individuals voting for Mansfield amendment
                                        50

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 579-15 (cont.)


          -Election
               -Possible outcome in respect to voting for amendment
          -End of war
               -Time length
                     -POWs
          -Effect on negotiations
          -Republicans and Democrats
          -Hebert
               -Support

People's Republic of China [PRC]
     -Kissinger's conversation with William P. Rogers
           -Announcement of Kissinger's trip
           -Rogers's analysis
                 -Kissinger's trip
                 -United Nations [UN] vote
           -Comparison to India trip
     -UN vote
           -Timing
                 -Gorge H.W. Bush's views
                 -General debate
                 -Soviet Union trip announcement
           -Effect from announcement
     -Date of announcement of trip
           -Kissinger's conversation with Rogers
                 -Kissinger's interim visit
                 -PRC's responsibility
     -Replacement of Kissinger by another
     -Trip by the president
           -Rogers's knowledge
                 -Results
     -Contacts with US
     -Rogers's reaction to Kissinger's trip
           -Kissinger's conversation with Rogers
                 -Press attendance
                      -Publicity for Kissinger
           -State Department personnel
                 -U. Alexis Johnson
                      -Rank
                 -David K.E. Bruce
     -Strategy of Kissinger and Haldeman
                                           51

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. 10/06)
                                                            Conv. No. 579-15 (cont.)


           -Comparison to India trip
      -The President's PRC trip
           -Advance team
                 -John D. Ehrlichman
           -Secretary of State
                 -Johnson
                        -Effect
      -Kissinger's trip to PRC
           -Effect on UN vote
                 -Bush
                        -Length of debate
                             -Kissinger's presence in PRC
                 -Date of debate
                 -Bush
                        -Length of debate
                 -Possible request of Bush

Mansfield Amendment
    -Capitol Hill actions
          -Arends, Ford

Announcement by PRC
    -Parade cancellation
         -Timing

PRC
      -Politics
            -Chou En-lai
            -Briefing in Hong Kong
                  -Mao Tse-tung's health
                        -The President's visit to PRC
            -Madam Mao [Chiang Ching]
            -May 16 Group

The President’s PRC policy
     -Holmes P. Tuttle
          -Telephone call to Kissinger
                -Kissinger’s briefing
                     -Effect on conservatives
                           -Support for the President
                -Support for the President
                                             52

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                              Conv. No. 579-15 (cont.)


               -Ronald W. Reagan

    Kissinger's forthcoming trip to PRC
         -Rogers
               -Concern about press accompaniment
                     -Comparison to India trip
                     -Kissinger's previous visit to PRC
                     -Johnson
         -State Department accompaniment
               -Johnson
               -Marshall Green
               -Control by Kissinger
                     -Alfred Les Jenkins
               -Advice to Kissinger
         -Kissinger's conversations with PRC officials
               -Negotiation tiers
                     -Technicians
                     -Chou En-lai
         -Timing of announcement
               -Domestic impact
               -UN vote on Taiwan
                     -Situation
                     -Debate
                     -State Department
                     -Bush
         -Debate at UN
               -Timing
                     -Kissinger's visit to PRC
               -African issues


**************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[National Security]
[Duration: 1m 52s ]


    AFRICA
                                            53

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 10/06)
                                                                    Conv. No. 579-15 (cont.)


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

**************************************************************************


    Kissinger's forthcoming trip to PRC
         -Rogers
         -Planning dates
         -Negotiations between US and PRC
         -UN vote on Taiwan
               -Reasons for Kissinger's presence in PRC
               -Chou En-lai
               -Effect on UN vote

    Mansfield amendment
        -Deadline in House of Representatives

    Edward M. Kennedy's statement to POW wives
        -Ford
        -POW issue
              -Remark
              -Ngo Dinh Diem assassination
              -John F. Kennedy's administration responsibility
        -Charles W. Colson's possible actions

    Joseph McCarthy

    Vietnam
         -End of war
              -Credit
              -Mansfield amendment
                     -Press coverage
                     -Possible effect on negotiations
         -Ceasefire
              -Effect on deadline issue
                     -Nguyen Van Thieu issue
         -Thieu's election
              -Hugh Scott's question
              -Possible impact
         -Kissinger's PRC trip announcement
              -Effect on US position in relation to North Vietnam
                                          54

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. 10/06)
                                                                      Conv. No. 579-15 (cont.)



PRC
      -Question of cancellation of trip
      -Relationship with us

Soviet Union

Vietnam
     -Negotiations
          -Pace
                 -Type of results
     -Mansfield Amendment
          -Capitol Hill reaction
                 -Congress
                 -Senate
          -Effect on negotiations
          -Negotiating strategy by US
     -Security leaks
     -Melvin R. Laird
          -Trips
     -End of war
          -Negotiations
                 -Credit for ending the war
                      -Record
          -Public opinion
                 -The President's actions
     -Mansfield Amendment's effect on negotiations
     -Thieu
     -North Vietnamese reaction to US offers

Kissinger's forthcoming visit to PRC
     -Reasons
           -Question about US recognition problem
                 -Discussion in the President’s presence
     -Rogers's concerns
           -US relations with Taiwan
           -Effects of Kissinger's trip on Taiwan relations with US
     -Timing of debate in UN
           -Bush
     -Kissinger's relationship with Rogers
           -Paris meetings
                                              55

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                     Conv. No. 579-15 (cont.)


                -Publicity for Kissinger
                -UN vote
                     -Bush
                     -Delay
                            -Timing of Kissinger's trip to PRC

The President talked with the white house operator at an unknown time between 5:55 pm and
6:26 pm.

[Conversation No. 579-15B]

[See Conversation No. 10-19]

[End of telephone conversation]

     UN debate on Taiwan
         -Timing
         -Length

     Kissinger's forthcoming trip to PRC
          -Speculation by US
                -Dates
          -Soviet Union announcement compared to PRC announcement
                -Rogers
                -Andrei A. Gromyko

     Soviet Union trip
          -Rogers's role
          -Kissinger's upcoming meeting with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
               -Memorandum

The President talked with Colson between 6:26 pm and 6:30 pm.

[Conversation No. 579-15C]

[See Conversation No. 10-20]

[End of telephone conversation]

     The President's schedule
          -The President's attendance at the National League of Families Convention
                                         56

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                   Tape Subject Log
                                     (rev. 10/06)
                                                          Conv. No. 579-15 (cont.)


          -Robert J. Dole’s appearance
               -Response
          -Kissinger's comments in past
          -US strategy
               -Vietcong
               -Envoys
          -Laird's comments
          -The President's possible comments
               -POWs and Missing in action [MIAs]
               -Edward Kennedy
               -Propriety

POW families
   -Relationship with Laird
         -Achievement of prisoner exchange

National League of Families convention
     -Laird's statement
           -News coverage
     -The President's statement
           -News coverage
     -Press coverage
           -Movement and location within room
           -Knowledge of the President's appearance
           -White House press
     -Statler Hilton Hotel
           -The President's schedule
                 -Time

Mansfield amendment
    -Hebert, Arends
          -Instructing conferees
                -Committee

North Vietnam
     -As issue
     -Bombing
     -Mansfield's comments

John Sherman Cooper
                                              57

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                  Conv. No. 579-15 (cont.)


     Marlow W. Cook
          -Retirement
                -Time duration

Kissinger left at 6:37 pm.

     Funeral for Justice Hugo L. Black
          -The President's attendance
                -Effect
                      -Exploitation

     National League of Families Convention
          -Timing
          -Number of people
               -Location
                     -Head table
          -The President's schedule
               -Arrival time

     Mansfield amendment
         -Clark MacGregor
         -Ford
               -Support for the President on Capitol Hill
         -Hebert
               -Vote
               -Strength
               -Success on issues
                     -Clement F. Haynsworth, Jr.
                     -Supersonic Transport [SST]
         -Capitol Hill
               -House
                     -Conference
               -Politics

     Kissinger and Rogers
          -Relationship
          -Trip to PRC
                -Green

     The President's schedule
          -Wire service coverage
                                              58

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                  Conv. No. 579-15 (cont.)


          -Drop-by
          -Justice Black's funeral

The President and Haldeman left at 6:42 pm.