Conversation 588-012

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And one more dance, you'll be here today.

Good dance.

That is beautiful.

No, you don't have to hold it up.

But you notice how I spanked to him on that defense thing.

I handled that.

I thought it was perfect.

Mike got on the side of that man, sealed him in.

I said, we've got to have defense and don't let it down.

We've really got to call the case to side.

I'm talking about the Soviet Union.

The only point in which you put yourself into a slightly too tight a box, but it isn't, it's fine.

No, where you said about Solve that we had agreed to settle it this year, we hadn't agreed to settle it this year.

Concentrate on the topics this year, because frankly, I think we ought to stretch it out into the summit meeting.

I don't want that.

We'll think over it.

No, all I would say, no, the fact is we've not agreed to settle it this year.

We've agreed to concentrate on it this year.

But that's a minor point.

I don't know how these wires are, but it's...

But to give you an example of how well you carried the press off, Zeiglin and Scali were bugging me before your press conference that I should give a background for this afternoon.

I said, wait for the president, see whether there's anything left to say.

They've both come in now and said that they don't think a background is necessary.

I agree with them.

I knew that to begin with.

I just...

I wanted to keep it loose in case there was something.

No, no, no, be foolish.

Be foolish and you've answered any question that could possibly come up and you've done it better than anyone could.

The Soviet are such that they've put out an announcement now with just changing a few tiny little things in there.

It doesn't make it worse.

It's just that they can never do anything right.

The Chinese have never deviated by a comma.

Actually, this time, where we say the chances of world peace, they put in the chances of universal peace.

It doesn't make any difference.

It's just when you have an agreement, universal peace.

It doesn't matter.

And where we have said in their exchanges during the last year, they put in during an exchange of opinions, which gives the impression that there was some specific meeting.

It doesn't, it's really totally material.

It's just that they're not a meticulous government.

But I think it's, um, and to get to see her again, my God, that's a pleasure.

It leaked.

It leaked on the wire at 11.58.

How?

South Florida Embassy.

One of the embassies, to put it that way.

Two minutes before the announcement, it said, the White House is expected to announce shortly the president will schedule a summit meeting with the Soviet Union, according to diplomatic sources here.

That's the embassy that I was talking about.

That was two minutes before your time.

And I'm sure they thought they were waiting for them.

Boy, CBS was still on that list.

They were on that list, and they interrupted their programming.

Doug Edwards came on, made the announcement, said the president himself had personally announced it in the White House press room.

They did this on film, didn't they?

Oh, they did it live?

You see, but it was Doug Ingersoll, not the president.

You see, we were not on the live call.

It was filmed.

But what I mean is, that will lead to newscasts tonight, won't it?

That's what I meant.

This is at noon, right at noon.

And then at 12.30, they have a little five-minute newscast.

And Dan Rather was on at that point with a little more detail on the presence.

The other members still haven't had it on.

They didn't have it on.

What I was going to say is that, Henry, though,

in terms of the best thing you know i did this one i didn't push myself as hard as they're carrying of course we have one subject but i but i was preparing all the rest but uh how did you do it no no mr president we have to be quite good answers you think that's just perfect if if we could have written them what will be enough questions

Beautifully done.

And, in fact, you sort of reached for one or two places in the Vietnam answers to make your point, which was good, which was highly desirable.

I mean, you elaborated on that, and you reaffirmed your September 16th.

I thought it was a... That's the one you were reaching for.

and letting them take care of the village.

Excellent.

I think we may...

They must be sorely disappointed at the result of the Vietnamese elections.

Not that they give a damn about the free elections.

But the things didn't unravel.

There haven't been street disorders.

The United States hasn't generated a coup.

And Hugh has engaged in a massive demonstration of his strength.

Actually, between you and me, it may turn out that he was right.

He has proved that he...

He has proved that the communists, even with maximum dissidence in the non-communist ranks, could not prevent him to run a rigged election.

That's a sign of strength.

It hurt us domestically.

It doesn't bother him in Vietnam.

They don't expect an unrigged election.

I've got that kettle off to rake in.

Informing him that he ought to ask that in.

That Ellender is a bloody fool.

Oh, Jesus Christ, the old fart.

They ought, they've got to run somebody after him.

He's just got to.

I've seen that.

The old, the old, the old.

You know, that film, Mr. President, if you... You've seen it?

Yeah, it's a two-hour film.

It's just a two-hour film?

Yeah.

What can you do with it?

Yeah.

He sat there right next to me, explaining it to me.

I had my old staff sit through it.

That I would rather like to see.

He even had the soundtrack going with it.

Really?

Yeah.

I'd like to access anything to be with Harriman now.

And, you know, every time we, you know, every time we raise this issue, there's a ton of people who are asking about everything else.

I really do.

Some partners out there have something about this.

Unfortunately, I just felt people would call us.

Incredibly, there was only one question.

On that one, I told them right at the beginning.

I said to the secretary, I'll take questions on any subject, right?

You had 18 questions, of which two were on the Supreme Court, and one was on the...

And one thing we should do, I think you can do it, is to compare 68 with 72 as this thing developed.

Because people had forgotten that in 68 Washington was burning, there was the Tet Offensive.

American troops were still going into Vietnam every month.

The number was still increasing.

And the Russians went into Czechoslovakia.

The Chinese weren't talking to us.

All of this happened in 68.

And if one compares that with where we'll be in 72, unless the whole thing starts under our name.

You can't see the races of the sphere of China right by the curse.

The Czechs won't.

We couldn't have one without the other.

The Russian trip will help us believe.

You know, I called to bring in last night and said, Anatoly, you've done it again.

You've picked up a nickel and lost $1,000 worth of goodwill.

And I found out about the transaction.

So he called up this morning a personal message from Gromyko saying this was not authorized.

They will keep their secrets.

They are eager to maintain the confidential channel to the White House.

Well, it's just, they'll cut our throats.

as easily as anything, but it shows.

But it shows how eager they are.

The point that I made is this, and I know you're emphasizing this, but I know you get through it, and I understand it.

I mean, Charles, and Carlton, and everybody, everyone, too, there's the White House version of domestic shop.

It's terribly important, and inevitably dull.

Now, it's important to get done.

It isn't any value to us.

It's a positive issue.

It could be very defensive.

Oh, and the economy, sir, is the peak of it.

It is purely defensive.

It's...

It's what people want to hear from the President.

They think that they might hear it, they like to hear it all the time.

Just a little.

Not at all.

They want to hear about the peace issue.

And I think that you can build this up, this idea that man and peace, they come a lot more than you're good.

Don't you think so, Mayor?

Absolutely.

Well, I don't know whether, yeah.

I think it's our big issue, whether it can be built more, I don't know.

Well, it can be, and, you know, it builds as it happens, partly, too.

George said, I don't know if you remember, he said, George, golly, they're absolutely right.

He also said they were inclined.

He said, well, he said, well, everybody now, there's no, because of the pandemic, that's established once and for all.

Nothing is ever established once and for all.

People forget.

They forget.

Because we ought to come out of these other meetings with return visits arranged.

In 73?

Yeah.

The way I'm trying to get all of these agendas set up is so that your performance comes in 73, their performance comes in 72.

so that they can...

But not only the return visit, Mr. President, because that they can take with anybody, but the delivery of our part of the bargain should come in 73.

I saw this as a very shrewd account in this meeting, where he said, well, this is likely to be sort of...

Well, that is in fact how we've kept the Middle East from blowing up, otherwise it would have blown long term.

I'm having dinner with Sabrina on Thursday night before I go off.

And with regard to the case, it's really simple.

Oh, I've been goosing them along all along.

But here is how I did it, Mr. President.

In July, Joe and I asked him, will there be a Russian visit?

I said, yes, but you know how the Russians are.

They're trying to hold us up.

We don't accept conditions, which I also thought.

But as soon as some of the requirements are met, like assault agreement or an accidental war agreement or Berlin agreement, then we'll go.

Then in August, when we have the accidental war agreement signed and the Berlin agreement signed,

I said, already, I said, we'll announce these two agreements soon, and I expect that there will be a Russian invitation now.

Then, two weeks later, I told them, we have reliable advance information that a Russian invitation is coming.

Then after you saw Gromyko, I told them the invitation has now come, and we are considering it.

And on Saturday, I gave them the advance text of the announcement.

I said, here's the announcement.

You're the first country we are notifying, and special discretion is necessary.

And of course, they didn't blow it.

Saturday morning.

So they, they've been, they've been conditioned every two weeks I've been warning them of some additional little step.

But they, in that process, too, they still come back with further talks to your side, by the way.

No problem.

You're good with this one going, is there anything more?

That's why we couldn't put it off.

It's, from every point of view, it's perfect now.

Going back to the old technique, though, I wonder if, in terms of the press conference thing, if it doesn't see a reusable purpose.

I did this with a, I did a lot with Perry.

He said I worked hard.

You know what I mean?

I read his book, and all that sort of thing.

But if Michael's talking to you, and Dr. Schultz and the rest of us, Perry has got to answer a hundred questions.

He's got ten.

Eighteen.

Mr. President, on September, your press conference on September 16th kept Vietnam from collapsing.

It's as simple as that.

It was heading towards a coup and you turned it around.

By keeping it from disintegrating, you've given us a new chance at negotiating.

That is what

That is why the Vietnamese were so tough to me on September 13th.

They saw these things sliding into chaos, and why save us by making an agreement?

Now, in a way, they're worse off than they were before.

The Jew is stronger now.

And with the Chinese new announcement, with the Russian announcement, the Jew is stronger than ever.

And, uh,

I think we have the chance again with that new proposal we gave to them.

Oh, I thought your last two conferences... Well, in foreign policy, Mr. President, you ought to assume that you're well prepared, because you really...

You're really, all you need there is a view of the morning.

Yeah, you need some of the new facts.

Schultz says he needs to see you on a later date, on a paper.

Ten minutes.

If Kennedy, who told me there's a column, somebody told me there's a column, Rosewood told me about the column in the Daily News with the Chicago Daily News.

Kennedy had done this, and what if Mason had done the bale of pigs, the lard, the tobacco, Berlin and a few other things?

We could get a hold of Schultz and tell him that I have to go, uh, I, I, I, the main thing is I don't want to get in a big battle, you know, with Scott and that economic thing.

There's nothing I can do about it.

I don't need to hold his hand on him.

This one, right?

He's coming down.

So, again, watch for 10 minutes.

Okay, good.

One thing you did very well and that it's important for us all to stay away from is to avoid any impression that we and the Russians have a special relationship and because if the Chinese think we and they are playing for a condominium I mean you specifically did about it and it was very good

So I don't suppose you'll make any comments this afternoon in the Congress, but you have to be... Oh, no, no, no.

I have to be involved.

I'm a letterman.

I never believed in it.

The idea is that we are going to meet negotiations with separate entities.

You know, the hell of it is we've done everything you said you would do.

We've linked them together.

We've got our preconditions met.

We've held out trade.

We've held out trade until there was political progress.

And I'm going to tell, now that we've made the announcement, I'm going to tell Stans that he can go.

I'm going to tell Dupree tomorrow.

Good.

I'll tell Dupree then on Thursday night that he can, that he's going.

And that he'll have a wife, Charlotte.

That's good.

So we get to know them.

But the only thing is if these guys ever put together everything I'm telling them,

I told the Chinese that the only ones who have an interest in continuing the war in Southeast Asia are the Russians.

Because they want to dominate Southeast Asia via Hanoi.

I told the Russians.

I think we got, I think I got that pretty good question.

Where I said we hold the thing as war, but we're not going to sit on the situation.

Okay.

George.

The Labor people have said they will serve on the pay board.

They've issued a statement that says it's all their way, as we expected, but that's their statement.

My judgment is the thing for us to do is say, well, I have drafted your statement.

That is a provocative statement, but nevertheless, it basically says they agree.

Now, Meany called me, and he read that you had said you would have a statement this afternoon.

And his basic message was, uh...

I'd say that we, uh, let's make clear that, uh, we, we, at this moment, we share, uh, the, the, the old plan.

We urge the Congress, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to,

Right.

No, I think that's...

And working towards the goal of full employment, which some have said is important, we believe, I believe that the prompt action on the tax proposals in the Senate is essential, just to add that as a paragraph, so that we are clearly at odds on that note, without saying that we disagree with them.

I've got to be allowed to go in, George, or otherwise it would appear, I think, by silence that we...

I think that's a good job, too.

That's as good as you can expect out of them, isn't it, George?

I think they have...

He says, we're going on the statement.

I notice the president says that he stands on what Connolly said.

I said, that's right, we think they're the same.

And he said, well, we're going on the statement with the president's initials on it.

I said, that's fine.

But we could have an endless argument back and forth.

Just say that I consider, I would say to that, George, that I consider this take a summary of what Tom and others have said.

That is just as an active summary of what we've said.

Fair enough.

Right.

What would you think of the idea of your picking up the phone and calling me and telling him,

that you welcomed his participation on the board and you were issuing a statement to that effect.

Okay.

Well, I just, I was, John and I were talking about this at lunch when this came in, and we started a draft.

No John, not Erlichman.

Connolly's still in Texas.

And I haven't talked to him about this.

I don't think it's necessary, but if we want...

His mood right now, despite the statement in his telephone conversation with me, his mood was hoping the president would, uh, would say, all right, let's cooperate.

Uh, Mr. Meany, please.

George Meany.

Can you get around to my phone?

I was trying to write something like, I also reaffirmed my, um, the importance of the U.S.

Our goal is that the goal is full of fun.

I believe that the goal is full of fun.

by the Senate, action by the Senate, on my tax proposals, on my tax proposals, will that mean that I have to make, that I have to make a job

i just got your

I greatly appreciate your willingness to work on this thing.

And you saw the piece of paper that you sent over.

That is my understanding as to what the policy is.

I think that when I told the press, I told the press about Collins.

I read the comment in characterly, and then this piece of paper is, and we've also checked it with Connelly, and he totally agrees with it too.

So you see, we've got Connelly, and as I understand it, more precise.

Well, I looked it over, and as you notice, I think you've got a copy of it, I think.

But I want you, I did want you to know that Connelly also has seen it, and agrees that that's what he meant to say.

Is that fair enough?

Right.

Look, the main thing is to make progress, and three and a half's a damn good number.

Right.

Yeah.

And I hope, I will put out the statement, and say I welcome the participation of Senator Sarah, and bring down the question.

I'm going to, the only thing that we do have some agreement on is on the TAC proposal, but I, of course, have to, if you can imagine, we've got to push for those.

Yeah.

Well,

Sure, that's fine, but we do have to make sure that everything works, which it might, and small jobs.

Okay.

I have, I also require my concern that if the economy expands and I pay full-appointment contracts and I'm set up by tax proposals, which will create one and a half million jobs, half a million, or more, I think, costs that we can have.

Right doctor, right there.

Oh, I was wondering about your business calls.

They've been making them, and I haven't had a feedback yet.

I haven't been making them, but Commerce Department, Peter Flanagan, and the labor people have been doing it.

And we have been circulating the thoughts of Leslie Ample, Rumsfeld in Indianapolis.

I got him on the phone, and he's making a speech right now.

Peter has called Arthur.

I talked to Arthur.

Well, there's no point in operation.

That's right.

I think what has been achieved here, from our point of view, is that here are these gigantic increases coming up.

and labor has accepted a measure of responsibility for them and for doing something about getting them down.

Pretend that is a coup of the other party.

Do you have a background on this today with the crisis?

I think this is very important.

All right.

I will try to steer it away from this argument about who won.

The thing is, I can just go out and say that the important thing is now

There's a question.

Why don't you just say the country won?

Why don't you just say that the country won?

Because without labor's cooperation, this program would not work.

And now labor is responsible to try to hold down these women increases.

And we believe that this is a very good program.

I think that's something along that line, very, very briefly.

I think maybe a do-to-do then, Georgie, would be helpful.

In other words, so that they don't do it right on the record, too.

Uh, where did I get the height?

And then I'll, uh, go out and do it right now.

I think fast, I'll be able to do it right now.

And then I'll just stay up there.

You know, it's an interesting thing.

I'm sure she realized.

I mean, she put her right on the tightrope when she said the guy's got to choose.

This China-Russia thing, the most significant thing that has happened in the modern world, the United States and the United States, we can talk about good relations with Bolivia or Chad.

What the hell difference does it make?

Except Bolivia and Chad.

with the Russians and Chinese is indispensable, or you're going to have a very dangerous world.

And this is an enormous, it's an enormous achievement, even the very fact that we're going to leave.

Well, I think the, uh, the Chinese and all the rest of the Carpathians didn't know how to do it, because they all went there half and half.

Well, they meant to talk, but with no special, they had no purpose, whereas it seems to me what, at least as I would read this announcement,

what it means is given your past statements i say this without knowing much about it that there must have been enough substantive progress by people who have been thrashing around in the underbrush to justify a meeting at the summit you've always said that as your that's when a summit meeting can do some good not at the end there is a lot of progress

You want me to have one of the girls take it?

The Canadians worked very hard against this, and they never got it, never got labor to lift a finger in all of their efforts to do something about this problem.

I think I have a statement with regard to the response.

And it occurred to me, and it occurred to him,

I could go on, but I want George to read one of them a little, on the record.

And I was thinking, I might go out and just read this page.

I go out and just read this page, and I'll just say, well, you were having this meeting, and this meeting.

Well, I think it's, uh...

Why leave a space of time when people are speculating about things otherwise meaningful?

So what should we say?

So let's take two o'clock.

Let me speak for two minutes.

They've gone to lunch.

Also, they've got a lot of writing to do.

All right, we'll go to two o'clock.

Good luck to you.

To Satan.

What are you going to tell them?

Maybe not tell them I'm coming.

No, I won't say you're coming.

I'll say come back at 2 because we have a statement on me.

Let him go.

Yes, sir.

Let him go.

Let him film George.

He's on the record.

I want him to be on the record.

That's a good idea.

He's got to let it go and say the significance of this is in their participation.

And you can find out the Canadian experience.

and he's going to say how the British are going to deal with it.

I'll start right out.

Gentlemen, before I take your questions, let me say there's going to be a lot of them.

Question 2-1, and just let me say the country one, because basically the President's feeling...

The President's feeling, the U.S. President's feeling, it's our feeling, I say it's our feeling, is that based on what has happened in other countries, that without organized labor cooperation, a program of wage and price restraint will not work.

And this is a, this we consider a very significant

Would you also, uh, I, uh, would you also say that, uh, Secretary Collins, who's in Texas on the way out here, says, uh, Peter, it's you?

Right.

Then, uh, then go to your questions on that.

I'm just saying, you're just popping that right out there.

Yeah.

Call John and tell him what, what we're doing.

Yeah.

Very good idea.

Okay.

We do want to follow up.

Okay.