Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 595 › Conversation 595-004

Nixon, Haldeman & Cox on Supreme Court appointments and Howard Baker

Monday, October 18, 1971 · 1:29 PM–2:32 PM ET · Oval Office · 11 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); White House operator; Cox, Tricia Nixon; Bull, Stephen B.Conversation595-004 on Tape 595 (tape position 00:18:27–00:29:14)StartMonday, October 18, 1971 at 1:29 PMEndMonday, October 18, 1971 at 2:32 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 595-004 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with H. R. Haldeman to evaluate potential Supreme Court nominees, weighing the political implications and qualifications of figures such as Howard Baker, Caspar Weinberger, Hershel Friday, and Mildred Lillie. The discussion focused on selecting candidates who could secure Senate confirmation while adhering to the administration's philosophical goals and navigating regional and gender-based political concerns. Additionally, the President and his staff touched upon U.S. foreign economic policy, specifically assessing the performance of Peter G. Peterson regarding textile negotiations.

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Position in tape: 00:18:27 – 00:29:14

18:35

595a.mp3

NARA Description

On October 18, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, Tricia Nixon Cox, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 1:29 pm and 2:32 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 595-004 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 595-4

Date: October 18, 1971
Time: Unknown between 1:29 pm and 2:32 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

     Greetings

The President talked with White House operator at an unknown time between 1:29 pm and 2:22
pm.

[Conversation No. 595-4A]

[See Conversation No. 11-106]

[End of telephone conversation]

     US foreign relations
          -Economic policy
               -Peter G. Peterson
                      -Briefing

     Supreme Court appointments
          -Leonard Garment's recommendations
               -Edward H. Levi
               -Objectives in nominations

The President talked with Tricia Cox between 2:22 pm and 2:24 pm.

[Conversation No. 595-4B]

[See Conversation No. 11-107; one item has been withdrawn from the conversation]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Supreme Court nominations
          -Garment's recommendations
               -Warren E. Burger
               -Harry A. Blackmun

                -Howard H. Baker
                -Casper W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
                -Hershel H. Friday
Show the rest of the log (60 more lines)
                -Mildred L. Lillie
                -Baker and Weinberger
                      -Garment’s view
                -Lillie
                      -Garment’s assessment
                -Baker
                      -School desegregation
                            -Tennessee
                      -John N. Mitchell, Elliot L. Richardson,
                       John D. Ehrlichman
                -Friday, Lillie
                -Baker
                      -South
                -Weinberger
                      -Ronald W. Reagan
                -Baker and Weinberger
                      -America Bar Association [ABA]
                      -Senate
                -Weinberger
                -Baker
                      -Senate
                      -Mitchell
                -Jewish question
                      -Political consideration
                            -Israel
          -Lillie
                -Qualifications
                      -Garment’s view

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 2:24 pm.

     The President's schedule

Bull left at an unknown time before 2:32 pm.

     US foreign relations
          -Textile negotiations
               -Peterson
                      -Performance

     Supreme Court appointments
          -Nominations
              -Lillie
              -Weinberger
                    -Political outlook
                          -Mitchell
                    -California
                          -William French Smith
              -Lillie
                    -Chances of Senate confirmation
                          -Opposition to women
              -Mitchell

Bull entered at an unknown time after 2:24 pm.

     The President's schedule
          -Wire photograph
               -Jack Pardee

Haldeman and Bull left at 2:32 pm.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Would you like to work with Gilbert tomorrow?
Sure, of course.
Trisha, please.
We've got 25 members and 75 staffers at that Peterson briefing today.
We've got a lot of those folks in the property.
I told them to return to staff.
Yeah.
Sorry, I didn't get your call.
I'll take the man from the staff.
On that note, I think the staff has to handle the questions and stuff.
Peterson is at the briefing.
Yeah, good.
Let him sing, too.
Then it's good to be down there.
Yeah.
We've only got one that should brag a little about it.
Twenty-five?
Twenty-five.
Great.
Show us some interest in it.
All right.
All right, great.
Well, let's start this final piece on the court, then.
Who would you give it to?
He has two nominations.
Yeah.
What do you buy?
I hope I'm not leaving on you.
Kevin, he makes his case that your objective is not only the philosophical view, but the ability to persuade others on the lower courts, the bar, the public, the service, and the people.
Must be a part of that, I guess.

— 1 min 42 s with no transcribed speech —

Two men, and by adding them to Berger and Botkin, you have a force strong enough to effect fundamental change and begin to do so soon enough to make the difference of 72.
Howard Baker and Casper Weinberg.
He says whether or not Friday and Lilly had these qualities is largely guesswork.
In the case of Baker and Weinberger, you have personal knowledge and intelligence, level of energy, ability to organize and present information ideas and argue a case.
He says the persuasive case has not been made to the appointment of Judge Lilly.
The appointment of a woman is not that much of a political plus.
Many men and women view this as simply catering to the feminist lobby.
And in the case of Lilly, there's a growing feeling that she's not qualified.
That's in his circle.
On Baker, he says, I was present recently when Howard Baker discussed the school desegregation problems in Tennessee with Mitchell, Richardson, and Ehrlichton.
Off this performance, I would say his ability to provide effective representation on this issue within the court is not matched by any of the court candidates discussed in recent weeks.
Basic intent is not to argue against Friday or Lillian, but to argue for two men who meet your philosophical tests.
can be confirmed without a democratic profit by and can be counted on to get the job done within the question of Baker, I don't know.
Baker's appointment would be welcomed by the South, Weinberger's by Reagan, both by all professional organizations and by the Senate.
The political considerations against extending them in this fashion are marginal when weighting against the potential cost of lost opportunities of two risk-reloaded nominations.
The wanker, I know, is just on fly.
I thought that would be fine.
That's kind of interesting.
He's not an effective senator.
He's shorty.
Send him to another appointment.
Oh, great.
Wanker.
He's never going to be the leader of the Senate.
No, but let's try to get the, he really feels we can have some jokes, you know, and I was just as scared as hell to see every vote show 3%, 2%.
History of the two things is just, it is impossible to know.
There's no case to be made there.
They're not going to vote for you on that anyway.
They're going to vote for you.
The Israeli types will vote for you if you do something for Israel and against you if you don't.
Forget it.
And the rest, you can do.
I don't see his problem.
I didn't think he was served.
He may be, you know, they've got this analysis of her overall opinion, so it may be father.
Peterson has put in a rundown.
He's done a hell of a good job on that.
The problem wasn't textual, but
Now why would it not have fallen aside on the fence, should it not have happened?
It probably doesn't overestimate what, or underestimates what they're starting to do on his life.
I'm going to be sure about the point you're making, conservative point.
I'm not going to judge you.
I don't want to hear about that.
I'm not going to judge you.
I don't know anybody with that intuition.
But apart from that, only capitalists never are conservative.
They have no right to say it.
So it's basically, we're going to go to a man, you know, and we're going to go listen to him.
You know, if it's really going to matter, we know he's a conservative.
All right.
First, I don't see them blocking over the youth.
They'll never vote against her.
So that's one thing.
You've got to get her through.
Second, I still think that the argument, as many of these arguments can be made, that deep down, they're just like a wall in the ground.
I didn't think so at all until they started talking to me
They just gotta run the thing next year.
They are too.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
I'd like you to meet Mrs. Jack Hardee, Mr. President.
How do you do?
Very nice to see you here.

Also recorded on October 18, 1971

  • 594-007 12:37 PM · 8 min — George T. Bell, Thomas G. Walters, Mrs. Thomas G. Walters, Clarence M. Tarr, Mrs. Clarence M. Tarr, Arthur L. Sparks, Mrs. Arthur L. Sparks, Vincent G. Walkendifer, Mrs. Vincent G. Walkendifer, Gertrude G. Davis, Carleton J. Chace, James W. Stone, Mrs. James W. Stone, Ted R. Gardner, Mrs. Ted R. Gardner, Col. Glenn R. Johnson, F. E. O'Connor, Luther L. Miller, Joe G. Attebery, Mrs. Joe G. Attebery, Ed W. Meadows, Mrs. Ed W. Meadows, Ray Hillyard, Charles J. Turrisi, Mrs. Charles J. Turrisi, Ben W. Graybill, David M. Magee, Chris J. O'Neill, Judith E. Park, and Katherine G. Slade met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:37 pm to 12:44 pm.
  • 594-008 12:44 PM · 58 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:44 pm and 12:46 pm.
  • 594-009 12:44 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:44 pm and 12:46 pm.
  • 594-010 12:46 PM · 26 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:46 pm to 1:15 pm.
  • 595-001 12:46 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:46 pm to 1:15 pm.
  • 595-002 1:15 PM · 16 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, and Rose Mary Woods met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:15 pm to 1:29 pm.
  • 595-003 1:29 PM · 50 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 1:29 pm and 2:22 pm.
  • 011-107 2:22 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Tricia Nixon Cox talked on the telephone from 2:22 pm to 2:24 pm.

All 46 conversations from October 18, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 595-004, October 18, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/595-004 (accessed November 15, 2026).