Nixon, Haldeman & Harlow on Agriculture Secretary appointment

16:27Unless he took advantage of it, he's made a monumental, monumental job.
16:29How are we holding down here for that NATO thing with those French?
16:34Farts and so forth and so on.
16:36What did they do with him?
16:37Well, he's a duck, but he's, of course, voted with us.
16:39It's a very important thing, but he's a great publicity secret, hasn't he?
16:43He just, he saw an opportunity, and I'm sure he was also annoyed by being held up at all.
16:48I don't blame him.
16:50Is there any reason why, with the big staff, and it is a very large staff, that a little, I see a lot of those young guys, and all these other folks, and one of them couldn't be there to watch that sort of thing.
17:02Bob?
17:06He said he wasn't coming, so they didn't put his name on the list, and then they apparently talked and ended up coming.
17:19So he came at the last minute.
17:21They had added his name, but they didn't say if it was written in on the other page.
17:26I'm not, it was one of our good, the problem is it was one of the good guards.
17:29We've got some guys here who are awful dumb and he don't handle us very well.
17:33We've got some, you know, damn well, I don't like him at all.
17:36I know he's just crazy.
17:37He's always out after some goddamn silly man.
17:42But I'm not going to go with it.
17:45They called him out.
17:47Oh, hell no, I'm not going to do it.
17:48I'm going to listen.
17:49That's from a great man.
17:51We just started it.
17:53That was a mistake.
17:54We should have had somebody call him and invite him apparently.
17:59That's the last thing we should do.
18:02Someone should have called and said we're very sorry.
18:05That sort of shaped him up a little bit at the same time.
18:10Not giving him any help.
18:16So the quarterback is going to lose his job.
18:17He wanted to lose his job.
18:19He's got to get a kid.
18:20That's what I would have done.
18:22You know, I just, you know, it was a technical reaction of the average person to ask about people that aren't grown up.
18:58At least they won the book.
18:59At least they won the book?
19:01Yeah.
19:01Thank God.
19:01I mean, in spite of, you know, it's something that some of the British whalers would probably agree to all the same, I'm not going to be able to tell you.
19:14I just want to note that all people who voted for me or us on this particular one
19:39the Democrats, I want them to keep his goddamn cognitive figures off.
19:44You know, we have really, they embarrass me very deeply in the 70s when they sent me out against Clark Fisher.
19:51You probably don't recall that.
19:55Clark Fisher's been my friend for 25 years, a real friend.
19:58He's more conservative than most other Republicans, much more.
20:02We've all run some hassle against him, he said.
20:06I'm not going to get involved with that anymore, Bob.
20:08I am not going to be involved with a picture, an endorsement, or anything against any Democrat that has supported something that's not in the House or out of the jail.
20:19It's like a sentence.
20:20Now there, that's a different matter.
20:23We do understand.
20:26A Democrat who supports us in the House of Vietnam.
20:29George Mann on people like that.
20:31Hunter Price, six.
20:32We just got our minds.
20:34Henderson in North Carolina.
20:36Never, never, never.
20:37I want to list it all.
20:39It's 40 or 50.
20:40Lex Aarons, let him pick the list.
20:42Democrats, the President should not oppose.
20:45Is that clear?
20:51I don't think we should do it anyway.
20:56I just don't think we should do it anyway.
21:09Or, I don't know, maybe not.
21:19What you're really on at is we're going to be basing that, sir, you think.
21:23I agree.
21:24Well, we've decided that.
21:25The only thing we would do is with incumbents.
21:29No, no TV.
21:30And no TV.
21:31I'm not going to have that TV spot thing where there's a picture or the office of law.
21:36I'm going to come out and report incumbents.
21:39And that's it.
21:40I'm going to come in for a still picture.
21:42There's no TV.
21:42One of the new candidates.
21:44No.
21:44That's right.
21:50I hope they told them all, there's no money, if you got that across the tent, we're not going to subsidize candidates for the Senate and so forth this year.
22:03Yes, the combat exercise was such a horrible experience anyway, you know.
22:09The greedy bachelors didn't do anything for us.
22:21Senator, there will be no leaks.
22:26There will be no leaks.
22:27They're not going to turn to pieces before I get them up there.
22:32You know what we're on here for.
22:33You can't do without one of the ADA.
22:35And nobody in the White House got them.
22:36I'm not going to have to write any shop checks.
22:41The people I have right now, I don't know how to dwell on myself.
22:44I'm just going to do it on my own.
22:51We basically were trying to find a son and so forth.
22:57Are you going to catch all of your way at this point?
23:06I can't report, Bob.
23:07I know.
23:07Every time I ever raise this question...
23:10Well, we always say, always, in the White House, Matt, it's the state department or something else.
23:15Stuff doesn't come here.
23:16Well, sure, it does.
23:17We have to be honest about it.
23:19Oh, I've never said that it doesn't, because there's no doubt.
23:23Stuff leaks out of here.
23:25And there's no doubt that there's speculation out of here, even when there's no leaks.
23:29In other words, a lot of the leaks out of here are about people who don't know and are sure.
23:33Well, sure.
23:35But you've got optics in the morning.
23:39There are some areas where we can avoid leaks, too.
23:44We don't have leaks out of any of these places.
23:49We sure don't.
23:50We don't.
23:52I mean, he's operated on that, but we haven't had leaks on it.
23:55I think the reason is the economic thing we got through without a leak only because we locked everybody up up on the hill and put the fear of God into them.
24:02Yeah, I remember that phone call with these
24:06And I'm scared to death.
24:07I mean, it really, they were really dreadful, concerned about that.
24:12Sure had the, had the necessary, but I think that it wouldn't happen if it had.
24:14Well, this is, these two quarterbacks are going to do that too.
24:19Their names have not been mentioned yet.
24:20Wait, that's not what I saw.
24:22That's good.
24:26I just want to eventually go to Philadelphia today.
24:32Maybe I'll get out because the guys talk to me and all kinds of other stuff.
24:41Threw it.
24:43Threw it.
24:44Oh.
24:44Alright.
24:45Well, that's good.
24:45You're out of luck.
24:47Snack jury.
24:49They're the only study that can make it.
24:52Prove it or don't win.
24:56Crank me.
24:56Snack jury.
24:58Well, they certainly haven't been no friends of ours.
24:59This whole process that you got no need to kick us in the ass every little time.
25:10I felt, frankly, very good about that boat yesterday.
25:12I thought it was a good day.
25:14It's getting closer.
25:21It gets closer all the time, but it's still...
25:41Are you still thinking of announcing your court names on TV?
25:43I am.
25:44It would have been months if they'd already... ...smeared.
25:59I figured you don't plan to go to Florida at all this weekend, is that right?
26:10He's not due back here until Monday night at 8 o'clock.
26:16He's in California and he went out to the bankers meeting in San Francisco yesterday.
26:22I don't know if we do anything about getting him scheduled for something other than that.
26:29Well, they tried.
26:30I'm not sure how successful because he had time.
26:35He
26:40was planning to go this afternoon down to the ranch and to stay there.
26:44See, Monday's a holiday, so he was going to stay, come back Monday night.
26:48I'm sure Tuesday, he'll be here Tuesday.
26:50Yeah, he'll be here at 8 o'clock Monday night.
26:53That's right.
26:54Have time, though, in Tuesday.
26:56As of now, we've kept Tuesday and Wednesday open against the possibility of a Wednesday press conference.
27:01Okay.
27:02Okay.
27:06I don't think there is.
27:07I don't hear it whining around.
27:10They whine, they whine.
27:11I don't think there's... You know, that was a press conference and I went out and announced the Russian thing.
27:35Absolutely.
27:36We all can.
27:37That was a press conference.
27:39No question.
27:43No, I don't.
27:44I don't think any of these were press conferences.
27:47We had a hell of a lot of issues with Trump, but I don't think we're all going to use it for our purposes, but not now.
27:54Henry gets in at lunch at 4 to hear about 5 o'clock Monday.
27:58And he would like to come right in, you know?
28:04Sure.
28:05When he gets here, which is a good idea.
28:06Yeah.
28:07All right.
28:10So that would be Monday night.
28:11Good.
28:14And, uh, okay, then we'll set the, set the budget meeting for Tuesday.
28:20Tuesday afternoon.
28:22I'd like to have that in a period of, so, uh, say starting at 4 o'clock.
28:34Irving said you wanted him to get with Conley on one thing before that meeting.
28:40I did that this morning.
28:42That's why I put it in the afternoon.
28:45Right.
28:45Right.
28:46Okay.
28:49Uh, Kishi is now coming.
28:53He was resolved.
28:54And, uh, they're suggesting it's tomorrow morning.
29:05I don't think he gets here until tonight because they were saying he was starting tomorrow.
29:20We've got the time tomorrow unless you want to hold it.
29:34I think I'll have a case for dinner.
29:43All right, tomorrow night.
29:47Thursday night.
30:04Instead of me, or that would be me.
30:07Yeah, I think it doesn't really work.
30:10And being an interpreter, well, he can do whatever he wants.
30:22All he wants is himself with an interpreter, and they were going to have names in it.
30:45I want to meet with him, have a meeting tomorrow morning and have a dinner.
31:01A small dinner tomorrow evening.
31:10Did you find out what he had?
31:14This is a virus kind of thing.
31:17He doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, but he works awful hard.
31:25He drives himself down.
31:29He drives himself, well, we all did when we came in at first.
31:35I think most of our people now have gotten themselves where they face a little better, recognizing
31:42that there's always a crisis and that you can't go out all the time.
31:48But that's what keeps me going.
31:49You see, I remember Bryce used to run himself right off the brink.
31:52And Bob Mayo used to do it, which I think he loved it.
31:56And he did it dramatically.
32:00You know, one of the great abilities that I have developed is a pace.
32:06I know exactly where I'm going to go.
32:12I go very hard for everyone.
32:14I sure do.
32:15But I sure as hell don't do more than I need to.
32:17Well, then you maintain some reserve strength, which is unlike what he did.
32:22And your job is just essential, because you don't know when something's going to hit.
32:26But you have to be good at it.
32:27You have to really crank up.
32:30Well, you know the best thing we do, though, Bob, is the schedule operation.
32:34We spend an awful lot of time on that, though.
32:37Especially when I spend.
32:38It's worth what I spend.
32:40Because if I let them...
32:42They all are very well catching people around here, you know.
32:46You get it in the schedule and just fill it in the time.
32:49I'd be running around like a chicken with my head cut off all the time.
32:52And that mostly happened, you know what I mean?
32:55They'd say, can't you see this one?
32:56Can't you see this one?
32:57The Aunt Susie's uncle's sick here.
32:59Can't you see her?
33:00And this and that.
33:01If you do an upload, we can step on the Aunt Susie.
33:05Well, we do business, don't you think?
33:06Yeah.
33:08I mean, like, for example, it was a small thing.
33:11Getting a party here when we were walking around the White House is about as good as getting anybody else involved.
33:16You've got a great picture on that.
33:18It's worth it.
33:19The party, you bought them, and I've got 300% here with you.
33:24You know, it's amazing, really.
33:28And that picture, it ran as a four column.
33:31And I did a big four column picture on the front page of the sports page.
33:34Which is just where you want it.
33:36You see, the point that Lee learned in marriage when I was going through it, and this was the mistake that I had.
33:42I went through the open door office hour, whatever the hell it was.
33:49It was a mistake.
33:50They were very good for those people.
33:52It was good for most people.
33:53It was good for you.
33:55But in terms of getting out the story, it wasn't worth a damn, was it?
34:01No.
34:01Then we cut those to one photo opportunity out of them.
34:04Then we started getting out the last of the minus out of that.
34:07But you were still doing all the others, giving nothing for us.
34:10And we don't do them.
34:11That's right.
34:13We don't.
34:13We don't need to do them.
34:15It's stupid what we do, but we still filter a few little things like that in.
34:18We heard, like, the multiple cirrhosis guys yesterday that, uh, they got a, they got a perfect little story.
34:24Yeah.
34:26A good cause.
34:30And we, we can't avoid, but the thing is, if we say no on all of that, we're still gonna get a few like this that, that you just, you get into a wicked where you can't undo it.
34:40That's right.
34:41And that's what that was.
34:42It was one where it had just been put off for so long.
34:45And we tried all the other dodges, you know, Mrs. Nixon and all the other things.
34:49They wouldn't give anybody else the trade with you.
34:52It didn't take long.
34:54It's a good cause.
35:00Do you want a key sheet?
35:01Do you want to try it in your mind?
35:03I'll do something for you.
35:05No problem.
35:08What have you got?
35:09Oh, that's not working.
35:11Well, Pat's got the Republican women's reception tomorrow afternoon, so you'll have a thousand women jumping through the house.
35:19That's all right.
35:20See, you should try to have a big dinner.
35:21They won't be able to.
35:24By the way, where are you hosting for a change?
35:28Probably both.
35:31But you could run away and wait until I'm taking you someplace.
35:38They always come to eat places you've never seen before.
35:40I was like, I'm gonna go.
35:41You should always go to the F Street Club or something like that.
35:56You're good.
35:57Twice, from two to four, but it'll take them.
35:59They can do a dinner, as long as you don't have to order people.
36:01I go the week through, I have a small dinner.
36:02I have a small dinner downstairs.
36:08Have John Eisenhardt say, have a ambassador, have a carpeted, you know, the, uh...
36:18Thank you, Robert.
36:21Have Peterson.
36:25Kennedy.
36:26Kennedy is here.
36:28Actually, uh, you know... Service types, uh...
36:37Bill wants to come.
36:39It would be nice.
36:44I know it was about 12 or 16.
36:50I'm sorry, sir.
36:55It's in the State Department.
36:56Well, that'd be Marshall Green.
36:58I don't know.
36:58I don't know.
37:05I don't know.
37:05I don't know.
37:06I don't know.
37:13I don't think so.
37:44Because you want the Japanese ambassador.
37:49He may have somebody with him.
37:55Hey, if he has someone he wants to bring, do you want him?
37:58Sure.
37:58How about four Japanese on eight of our people?
38:07Is that 80?
38:11Yes, sir.
38:14I would love it if you want to do it.
38:21I don't know what your term is.
38:23How is our term?
38:23I don't know.
38:24That's good.
38:25All right.
38:28He's very big on Japanese.
38:33I don't know whether you want him or not.
38:36We can do work on him.
38:39Yeah, I have our term.
38:42But Schultz loves comedy.
38:53Okay.
38:54I should have a little quality.
38:58You're good.
38:59He likes that.
39:00He is.
39:00I'm cranking the can.
39:01I want the other one.
39:03Solid.
39:06Balls, not free.
39:07Just pick up.
39:14Solid.
39:14Solid.
39:25Okay.
39:25And that's not even beside the block.
39:29And it would be business too.
39:31I don't know, they have some sort of, we should not have music, but I mean, we should have, we should have, so he has a nice entrance, you know what I mean?
39:50Shots.
39:50It's part of the practice.
39:56Well, there must be something in between.
40:02I mean, is there anything in between?
40:06Yes, I don't think, but I think we don't have anything like that.
40:08We don't have to look too dead bare.
40:08We could have a, you know, a small musical group playing in the hall so that you have some music before then.
40:13You gotta have your cocktails in the blue room.
40:15Have a musical group playing in the hall.
40:19And have some people.
40:21small honor guard, you know what I mean?
40:23So it isn't totally there out there.
40:24I want you to come in the front door.
40:26There would be, from the head senator, there would be photographers too.
40:31I want photographers to come in and take pictures.
40:35Connelly will not be here, will he?
40:41No.
40:41I want to order him up.
40:44Is he in Texas?
40:45No.
40:46There's, there's,
40:49There's a problem in that right half of this.
40:54Connolly was originally committed to testify, apparently.
40:58I guess he has reduced to, or said he isn't going to do half of this now, so he isn't going to hold the hearings then.
41:04So he's using Connolly's non-adherence as an excuse not to start action on the tax proposal.
41:10And that, Connolly's got to be the strategist.
41:14Connolly's around having an old talk.
41:22You know, you may be right.
41:23Tom may be one of those guys that goes like the way they split the words off.
41:28He looks like he's just like a... Johnson used to do that.
41:32Johnson was always sick.
41:37You know who he was?
41:38I used to have a son in my part of the area.
41:40He'd lie in the bed, cough, and spit terrible, terrible shit.
41:44Only because he'd been up to 4 o'clock in the morning.
41:47Crazy bastard.
41:50It's got to look like it's going to be very risky.
41:53How about Sands?
41:56You know, they just rub their noses at that.
41:58That's why they don't like Sands.
42:00Maybe it's not because he is a little bit like Peterson.
42:04It's got to be there.
42:05It's got to be nice.
42:06You've got to have him.
42:12You've got to have him.
42:16You've just been there.
42:18It looks like we're back on part three.
42:21Well, this will be nice.
42:26I don't think we need to have arm trigger.
42:38That's good.
42:47Let's do that.
42:53He's red blind.
42:55He's very anxious to see you for a few minutes.
42:57I think we've probably got him.
43:02Well, he wants to clean up the question of the postal situation, the Board of Governors, and all that, and he is going to leave pretty quick.
43:10He's going to wrap it up and get that done.
43:20I don't know if he's going to do it on Friday night.
43:26All right.
43:29Thank you, public.
43:30Thank you, Senator.
43:36And I just thought I'd go to the women the next morning.
43:44It's just, well, I'm cold.
43:46I think I'll just stay Friday night.
43:48All right.
43:57It's kind of good, that gives you something to be doing here, to live in this bank.
44:00Well, I just thought, I just thought that we, I'm having a very good idea.
44:08We'll get that for around 12, you know, 10, 12, 10.
44:14I don't, I, and I can always add anything to that, you know.
44:24Yeah, relax.
44:24Yeah, I'm good.
44:30Well, it would have been a good idea.
44:33I thought we'd just go some time on the way to Portland.
44:37Right.
44:37Drop in.
44:39Right.
44:39And we'll get a hell of a, we're going to get the same trophy, whether we're there for the opening or not.
44:44I sent him the flag.
44:46I'm going down for the weekend, so I'll get the flag.
44:53You'll get the flag, thank you.
44:54So we'll get the flag.
44:57Great idea.
44:58Great idea.
45:02Now, Freeland Tyson has asked to see you, and I don't know whether you need to see him or not, to read East Bend to Pakistan, India, and Greece.
45:23He wants to read for him.
45:24Hey, we have a very interesting project we would like to take endorsement of.
45:31point that he's obviously wanted very valuable support ever for us and also we can all jackasses will see you and he has never asked for any with you apparently very good is asked to see you which one the prince uh
45:52He is the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.
45:57He coordinates all the relief assistance to the Pakistani refugees.
46:02And the argument for seeing him is that we have directed that all our stuff is on refugee heat through the UN.
46:11And that this gives visibility of the U.S. response that you've directed and all on relief effort and all that kind of crap.
46:20The only thing is, I don't want to get him trapped in there.
46:25This is where he says, well, I need to see you.
46:29Well, you can't control him.
46:33He'll get you in a corner.
46:36He won't be around, so you just tell him to check the office.
46:41We can stall it for as long as you want.
46:50If you want to see Roger's son, I've got a story out of it yesterday that's been of our interest and all that.
47:00Roger and Henry have recommended you see him with Francis Kellogg, who's one of the refugees.
47:06And we've got a lot of that kind of stuff.
47:17uh if we want to do it we've got uh 10 vietnam veterans who have just come back from a summer in vietnam where they've been working as volunteers with no pay working with south vietnamese veterans and it's a question of whether we want
47:42publicity on, uh, they're working in hostels, you know, whether we want publicity on what our veterans are really doing in Vietnam.
47:49The argument is that the story needs to be told.
47:53Reinforced.
47:54Reinforced.
47:55Who's that?
47:55Colson, Pegg, Klein, Scalini, and Ziegler.
48:00Are they?
48:00Who's the president?
48:03Who's idea?
48:03Colson, I think.
48:05I think they're the president.
48:12He gave me a fair amount of press coverage, apparently, and that was to try to make the Vietnam veteran look like a good guy instead of a bad guy, as he would look thereafter.
48:26All right, great.
48:28He began a purely symbolic... All right.
48:33Tom Bale is back at us, wanting an appointment with you.
48:35I turned him down, and I just...
48:41He's...
48:43He has good stuff for us, but he wants an interview.
48:46That's right.
48:47Oh, there's no, it's out.
48:50No.
48:51He's just not, who is this client?
48:53Client two to the front.
48:55He's just not going to put it to bed.
48:57I'm just sorry, we just, we just can't have any interviews.
49:01I know, I know, but he did it before.
49:03Yeah.
49:04He wrote a book out then, then not, you know, yeah, he's not right.
49:07It didn't hurt, but it wasn't right because I had told him to.
49:11Yeah.
49:14They could do something other than interview.
49:16He, uh, tell you what you could do, he would invite you to the TV thing.
49:23There's no harm in that.
49:32But no evidence, but when he sees you, just say there ain't nothing.
49:35That's a perfect area to invite him.
49:37He's a friend.
49:38Gives him a lot of things, but he's a small man.
49:43The Biennial Convention of the National Catholic Youth Organization Federation is going to be in Washington in November 4,000.
50:14The director of Catholic Youth Activities, my senior mother, has invited you to address them while they're here, which you could do if you wanted to.
50:31You could do a drop-by, unannounced type thing here at the Sheraton Park at one of their sessions.
50:38And for, and I think we ought to do this, we can invite, they have eight officers of the association.
50:44We can invite them to come in while they're hearing the convention to see the president.
50:49I think the drawbacks of this drawback.
50:55the purpose of this is not to see the youth, the purpose is maybe we didn't have a few youth that would be enthusiastic, they could be.
51:05In other words, try it after they get here and see what the hell their attitude is, maybe their temperature, and maybe just pop by and say a few words.
51:17I'll put someone else in as a question so I can see what happens.
51:29They're asking now for an agreement in principle to a meeting with a courtesy called the Crown Prince of Ethiopia.
51:40No.
51:40In January or February.
51:42No.
51:43I'm sure with all that.
51:44There's no argument that he will be the successor to the emperor.
51:47I will ask him.
51:48No.
51:50Just say it.
51:51Okay.
51:51The time is
51:54The way it comes down... Now, who's working on this?
52:15Uh... We try not to go very broad on it.
52:24people involved because we don't want to get the and we can go broader but i don't think we're going to get any i'm concerned let me say this i'm a little concerned about that question
52:45He takes the firemen, he takes the partners, and he works his butt off and slowly goes out there and so forth.
52:56But I think we have to realize he's not an expert in anything.
52:59What I mean is you can't figure the job that's going to be his judgment.
53:04It's going to be all that good.
53:05You see what I mean?
53:07And we just can't fool ourselves on that part.
53:11Quakers are damn good.
53:13Basically all purpose men working on things around.
53:18Okay.
53:19What they try to do is rank the candidates on political loyalty, credibility with the farm community, media reaction, demonstrated confidence in farm policy as one, and ability as a spokesman for the farm.
53:34So, and they come down to five candidates that they think are still worthy of consideration.
53:40And that's Bellman, Butts.
53:44I will not pick Bellman, so just forget it.
53:47I'll be teaming Bryce Harlow and Louie Nunn.
53:53Butts.
53:54And I'll pick Butts.
53:56If you don't hear the argument on Bellman, because that's the one that keeps coming out on top of Mitchell's mind, I guess.
54:11I want to go back to John.
54:14His argument there is he's a farmer's farmer who can talk to him.
54:17He's from a farm state and he understands the issues.
54:19He's close to you.
54:20He would have the best credibility there if he wanted to.
54:23If he wanted to.
54:23He's willing to give up the safe Senate seat.
54:27Who's going to go for the Senate?
54:31Well, we have two.
54:32One will go against Edmondson and lose.
54:34And the other will go against Wilkinson, got any chance in all this?
54:39None.
54:41Well, I don't want to go.
54:42Wilkinson has a, Bartlett has the better chance.
54:50And they feel, I'm sure they've done the same.
54:54I don't think it's fully convinced.
54:56I'm not sure.
54:57I'm not sure it could be.
55:00When they write them on the criteria, the way they come out is, Bellman is outstanding on loyalty, outstanding on farm reaction, outstanding on media reaction, outstanding on political ability, and good as a spokesman.
55:12Butts would be good on loyalty, good on farm reaction, outstanding on media reaction, good on political ability, and outstanding as a spokesman.
55:22Tiemann would be, no, I won't.
55:25Fair to good at all.
55:27Harlow would be outstanding on a couple of counts, fair on a couple.
55:31Dunn?
55:32No, fair on.
55:33I think that was conventional.
55:39Butts is pretty good.
55:42Butts was mad by far.
55:44He's yards ahead of the others.
55:47He might work on the farm program.
55:50Donald is not very smart.
55:51Our people are not.
55:53They don't know him.
55:55Butts is a much better speaker.
55:57Now, Butts is much cooler.
56:03The one argument against him, he's a smart girl, though, is that he's an academician.
56:07That you're taking one professor out and putting another one in.
56:13He has better credibility, really, than our professors.
56:16I've heard about him.
56:17He's an academician.
56:20And he's in.
56:21He's not a college president.
56:29He's a... Is that the mic?
56:34Why don't we...
56:34I'd rather take the mic off the box.
56:36He's 62, which is certainly not too old.
56:38I thought he was older than that.
56:40I think I'd like to...
56:57Instead of watching an experience, you've got to get it.
57:03I don't know what you're talking about.
57:15Do you think he's the best?
57:23What's Harlow?
57:26Yeah.
57:28Harlow, Harlow takes Belvin as his first choice.
57:33He takes Pompey as his second choice, Butt's third.
57:43Hart kind of, Hart ranks Pompey at the bottom of the list, but he says, and he'd be working good, but you lose all the political advantage if you keep Pompey in, because then you're not making any change.
57:57It seems to be given a certain amount just from the fact that they'll change.
57:59Go.
58:00It's basically a critical decision.
58:06I think, basically, it's the best man's decision.
58:08The best man's money is gone.
58:08But what's going on?
58:10Well, that's what they don't know.
58:14It was politics that's going on.
58:15So, check us all the directions.
58:28appeals, the Democrats are going to take the Harris seat anyway, which is up.
58:32If it's going to win, we can't do anything about it.
58:35I will respond to that.
58:37The Democrats have no other candidate that they can make viable.
58:41So we don't lose that seat.
58:43We've lost it anyway.
58:44They keep it.
58:45But we will not lose the, you know, the element seat because there's still the, the either Bartlett or Wilkinson
58:56would win the presidency in a special election.
59:00Incidentally, the solution available is very nice.
59:04What I'm getting at is that you just say, well, Tom, you just don't do any interviews when we'd like to.
59:12You'd better like to have your small dinner.
59:16Come on, let me say how you're going to handle it.
59:20How in the hell did Pat get involved in the election for the purpose of those cameras?
59:25I don't know.
59:27She's just cute, right?
59:29I don't know, I was so shocked when I saw that.
59:31Apparently she's giving lunch.
59:32Missy's giving the lunch.
59:33You see, Missy comes to, she's on some council, we put her on some arts council or something like that.
59:38She comes to Washington once a month.
59:40She's giving lunch.
59:41And she's giving the lunch at the F Street Club.
59:43Her parents would use her for such a goddamn thing as mine.
59:46I was astonished.
59:47I said, Pat, I'm a ridiculous loser.
59:52My wife accepted it, too, and I was astonished.
59:56Should I talk to Mitchell about the dominant thing again?
1:00:15Yeah, I guess so.
1:00:19He's there forever.
1:00:20If you put butts in, you can make a change again.
1:00:26I guess I have a sense that you've got him on your hands for a while.
1:00:35I don't know.
1:01:04I don't know the situation with regard to that.
1:01:10Well, there's plenty of good reviews.
1:01:11We were outside, and Whitaker is strong.
1:01:13Well, Whitaker is the first guy to recognize that, and he has...
1:01:16I know, I know that.
1:01:17I know he's the first to recognize it, but we've got to recognize it.
1:01:20Well, we had the guy we were going to bring in, and the thing was that they should wait until after we...
1:01:24If there was going to be a change in secretary, that the other... That was the guy's name.
1:01:30They have a guy there on the line.
1:01:34No.
1:01:36Another guy.
1:01:37They're all agreed it's the ideal guy to bring in here.
1:01:40They thought it was somebody like Tommy Murray.
1:01:50He used to be just way young.
1:01:53As secretary, I keep praising him.
1:01:56And they just said you can't pull a guy out of a staff position in the Hill and make him a captain officer.
1:02:10This is the ice station.
1:02:11Henry doesn't know that much about it.
1:02:18He knows about it.
1:02:21He's a senator.
1:02:23He's a senator who knows about it.
1:02:34He's a senator who knows about it.
1:02:39No, it's a good thing.
1:02:43What?
1:02:43What's a good thing?
1:02:45No, no.
1:02:46Yeah, that's a good thing.
1:02:48Either covers something.
1:02:50What I mean is, agriculture is a very technical subject.
1:02:52That's why, what are you guys knowing about it?
1:02:56I mean, it's a hell of a technical subject.
1:02:58I guess money is the best way to be honest.
1:03:00And I know, because that's right.
1:03:01You see, if you get a friend that knows about it, and also that speaks, that's very emotional.
1:03:06Bryce does, for example.
1:03:07Bryce knows about it.
1:03:08Bryce speaks.
1:03:15No.
1:03:21No.
1:03:27Best for the hill, that's all.
1:03:30You know as hard as all others look together about this subject.
1:03:34Disadvantages are that he's not that prominent in farms and farmers wouldn't identify with him.
1:03:38His style won't be effective in the farm states.
1:03:45Major drawback is active admission.
1:03:55As all criteria, but to a lesser degree than a loyal supporter, 31 years in agriculture education and assistant secretary.
1:04:05takes some credibility from farming, and he farmed for organizations and media to be very favorable to his employment, but had adequate political sophistication with his most important asset, his disability as a spokesman.
1:04:17Harlow and Martin feel he's the most forceful speaker amongst the candidates, Harlow characterizing him as having real electricity but common.
1:04:28He does have, Bellman is not an exciting type of guy.
1:04:37Harlow, please.
1:04:44He's maybe a better speaker than I am.
1:04:48Well, Bryce apparently thinks he is.
1:04:50This is really funny.
1:04:52So a guy comes in and they make this mark.
1:04:55Big speaker.
1:04:56Barks around the stand.
1:04:59Right?
1:05:00Did they forget it?
1:05:01Yeah.
1:05:02Okay.
1:05:02Do I count them?
1:05:05You know, everybody said that, that, uh, Tom Collette, who was following me on the phone the other day, was a man.
1:05:12Well, they said when I invited him, he was out in the street and saying he's not qualified, and so forth and so forth.
1:05:31They turned totally around, and they said goodbye to all of us.
1:05:33Come in, presence.
1:05:35All the other things.
1:05:36And he has.
1:05:37He's, uh, there's nobody, you know, the thing that the fellow was mentioning was a surprising dog.
1:05:44It's a thing that's got to get around.
1:05:47Bill Rogers is the only one that says it.
1:05:50He says, you know, the thing is that they like about the comic, he's always saying good things about the president.
1:05:56He says every speech is directed toward building the president up.
1:06:01Who the hell Jared is?
1:06:02Somebody told me that is.
1:06:04So Jack Delaney, as I told you, I saw him the other day, he was saying, he said, well, you're, man, Connelly, he's sure done a great job for you.
1:06:11And I said, yeah, he's an outstanding guy.
1:06:16He said, I've never seen him before.
1:06:17He said, this is a good job of praising his president.
1:06:22Yeah.
1:06:25Yeah.
1:06:26Oh.
1:06:27Right.
1:06:28All right.
1:06:33Well, I find, you know, as a matter of fact, uh, uh, I never said...
1:07:28If I, let me ask you, I want to get your appraisal on this agriculture thing.
1:07:34I mean, I know the views you have put in, but to me it really comes down, you know, of the people that we've mentioned.
1:07:47I think it comes down to it.
1:07:49You can't hit a lobby game for somebody like that.
1:07:53I mean, it's just going to race all the time.
1:07:57And to me, it comes down to people, other than colleagues or boarders, that I can see is between all of us and Rebellion.
1:08:06Now, I know you've been a strong Rebellion.
1:08:11The thing about Rebellion,
1:08:26Oh, is the medicine simple?
1:08:33I see.
1:08:41Yet, uh, yet he's a very strong speaker, they say, and all that sort of thing.
1:08:48Yes, yeah.
1:08:49Yeah.
1:08:57I wonder if the Benson thing may be too far back in memory.
1:09:01The problem that you have with Henry is that, uh, well, apart from his son and all the other things, is, uh, I have a real question as to whether he, frankly, could understand the intricacies of the goddamn thing.
1:09:17You know, this, this is the most intricate thing we have nobody here to read, actually.
1:09:21No, it does.
1:09:29Yeah.
1:09:31Oh, I know he's a farmer.
1:09:31There's a lot of farmers that don't know the difference between cow shit and pig shit.
1:09:37Do you know that?
1:09:37Do you think he does?
1:09:41Yeah.
1:09:48Where that's necessary, yeah.
1:10:18Oh.
1:10:18Yeah.
1:11:00Yeah, that's for sure.
1:11:01Yeah.
1:11:06All right.
1:11:15Yeah.
1:11:15My palm will stay on.
1:11:30Dredge!
1:11:31Go!
1:12:15Yes, it is.
1:12:18The trouble with the bus is that it prevents the plane.
1:12:26I see your point there.
1:12:39Yeah.
1:12:39Yeah.
1:12:41Yeah.
1:12:43Yeah.
1:12:43Yeah.
1:12:59But you don't like that, do you?
1:13:05Yeah.
1:13:07Yeah.
1:13:11Yeah.
1:13:15Yeah.
1:13:16Yeah.
1:13:18Yeah.
1:13:21Yeah.
1:13:22Yeah.
1:13:22Yeah.
1:13:22Yeah.
1:13:22Okay.
1:13:23Well, that's a very awful price.
1:13:29Sure, sure, you know.
1:13:30And we wanted to get those hog prices up.
1:13:36And as well, they're very, yeah.
1:13:39Corn and hog.
1:13:40Corn and hog ratio.
1:13:43Corn and hog ratio.
1:13:46Yeah.
1:13:46Oh, okay, right.
1:13:48Good to see you guys today.
1:13:52And we all have, well...
1:13:59We're going to, I'll tell you this on the hockey street.
1:14:03He's back at the event.
1:14:05sabotaging our, as I said, it's really ironical that the same people that got us into Vietnam have sabotaged every effort of my effort to get us out.
1:14:15And by God, when the whole record is printed, as you can read between the lines, we've been doing all the law that we have not publicized.
1:14:23We've had a hell of a lot of meetings they know nothing about in all sections of the world.
1:14:27And these sons of bitches are going to have to pay.
1:14:29They're going to make them pay.
1:14:32It really is.
1:14:34They're irresponsible.
1:14:35Here we are.
1:14:36We got the casualties down to five this week.
1:14:39What the hell do they want?
1:14:42They want to lose.
1:14:44They want the country to lose.
1:14:52Yeah.
1:14:54That's right.
1:14:57They're having problems.
1:15:01All right.
1:15:02All right.
1:15:08The economy will have to see.
1:15:09If it doesn't go up, you know the economy is out of our hands.
1:15:13That's just one of those things.
1:15:14It's either going to go up or it isn't.
1:15:17I think it will.
1:15:18We shall see.
1:15:24Yeah.
1:15:25All right.
1:15:25Well, let's take a look at my price.
1:15:27All right.
1:15:28Bye.
1:15:36I raised that.
1:15:37Nobody else seemed to be concerned.
1:15:42He had a problem bringing Benson back to life.
1:15:47He didn't bother.
1:15:50He calls the other calls around, and we're not here in Benson.
1:15:57I mean, none of the people that you've been talking to.
1:16:04Or not as sensitive about it.
1:16:05The fence station was not a thing.
1:16:07Well, I know.
1:16:08Not a thing.
1:16:08And what's is true is that I am very close to the fence.
1:16:12We considered the Secretary of Agriculture at the beginning of the network and I was very against it.
1:16:16I believed that 11-year-old Connor would be alright.
1:16:20He was such a... That's just how Mitchell and Mel have been doing.
1:16:27The two of them.
1:16:27You can see that.
1:16:28I don't want to go over Mitchell's
1:16:33Out of objection.
1:16:37You want to take it up with him?
1:16:44Yeah.
1:16:44Rogers called me about the, uh, uh, manager's office had raised with him of putting, uh, shoot, putting on, uh, the guy on the bed, you know,
1:17:02And he said that we have to understand that there will not be a replacement for Bush until UConn changes because it's Deputy Secretary General and a new Secretary General selected.
1:17:16And that we should not say anything about that.
1:17:19He doesn't mind if you don't.
1:17:21But he said, we don't make the appointment.
1:17:24Secretary General Harris, it'll probably go to an American, but we would sink his chances if we got into it now.
1:17:28All right, fine.
1:17:29We're good.
1:17:31and that when we get the new secretary general, we'll talk to him and he feels sure we can get the man in line.
1:17:37All right.
1:17:40Good job.
1:17:41Just very briefly, I wanted to get some guidance on the court.
1:17:44The attorney general is en route to Philadelphia, so I've had a chance to talk to him.
1:17:48Two basic questions I'll get this morning.
1:17:51Will the appointment still be made this week?
1:17:54Now, yesterday I said there's no change in what you previously said.
1:17:57I can shift that a little or begin to move that today if you
1:18:00So did I. I've also took the line yesterday that you have not made selections.
1:18:06I'm not getting into any discussion or speculation on names, but I'm saying that... Well, we...
1:18:12I think the way to answer both questions is that... ...
1:18:30that they will be meeting sometime this week.
1:18:34Today.
1:18:35Today at the house.
1:18:35Yes, sir.
1:18:36Yeah.
1:18:36I like that he is being followed.
1:18:39Let's not put it quite like that now.
1:18:46Thank you, sir.
1:18:47Well, like I said, we say that we have not made, that while their recommendations that we receive today will not be final,
1:19:01I don't want you to say we're going to let them.
1:19:14I just want to say that tomorrow is a meeting later than we had thought.
1:19:22I'm just curious what you thought they were going to make for the weekend.
1:19:33We have also said, I have said, and the Attorney General has said, that there are other names under consideration than those before the bars.
1:19:42So that, actually, there's not a great deal of pressure.
1:19:45That's why I raised this about this week, if you want me to loosen it up a little.
1:19:49I think it may be this week.
1:19:51We'll surprise them.
1:19:52But I simply say, well, there are other, there are also some other names.
1:19:57Let me, you know, at the very least, I think I must...
1:20:03You remember what I told him when I had my president?
1:20:08Yes, sir.
1:20:09And I said, I was like, you should not speculate.
1:20:12You recall what I said?
1:20:14I was like, I remind you what the president said.
1:20:16Don't speculate about this situation.
1:20:19There are many stories that he gave.
1:20:22There are only six that are conservative or relevant.
1:20:30I believe in those things.
1:20:32Those things are very much in order.
1:20:38Because I've never confirmed them.
1:20:39And I... Well, they don't...
1:20:41I...
1:20:41There are others...
1:20:42There are other under consideration in those that the bar...
1:20:45I mean, I'll consider that.
1:20:46I'll consider that.
1:20:50You see, the point is, we're going to, we're just going to find out that there have been a number of names.
1:20:59Sure.
1:21:00We've considered them all.
1:21:02This is going to be, we're going to send them up.
1:21:08They act as if we've already found them.
1:21:10And they try to tear up the pieces.
1:21:11Sure.
1:21:11All right.
1:21:11Something like that.
1:21:12In other words, all right.
1:21:13We might do it this week, but don't.
1:21:14But we might not.
1:21:16I don't know how far, what will happen tomorrow.
1:21:20What happened to some other people?
1:21:29Just say that the... Now, on the veto thing, I've answered that, the ABA veto thing.
1:21:34I've said that I've never talked about that one way or another with the President.
1:21:39Now, do you want me to take it to the step today that we would consult with the ABA and take their recommendations under consideration?
1:21:49Because I am getting the question, will the ABA, is the ABA in a position to veto a name?
1:21:58Just continue if you are not.
1:22:00I'd rather have you keep it loose.
1:22:04Right.
1:22:04That's not a matter before us.
1:22:06Is it possible that
1:22:16Just one final question.
1:22:17Is it possible that a name would be submitted without consultation with the AG?
1:22:22It is.
1:22:23Don't tell them that.
1:22:23Don't tell them that.
1:22:25It's very possible.
1:22:26We didn't submit a burden.
1:22:29Right.
1:22:30Following that, however, the AG, the Attorney General indicated he would consult.
1:22:34Well, no.
1:22:36I just wouldn't.
1:22:37It's impossible to submit.
1:22:38I just say, well, I don't want to get into that.
1:22:41I just want to be in that.
1:22:43I put that burden.
1:22:45Okay.
1:22:46That's what I mean.
1:22:47I'll just stay loose for the whole time.
1:22:49We're never going to submit a name to them again for your information.
1:22:52And so that's that.
1:22:53It's like sending it to the automation newspaper.
1:22:57And so that's true.
1:22:59And as a matter of fact, for your guys.
1:23:02I want you to keep them, though, on the trail.
1:23:06Very long on the trail.
1:23:08It's going to be a little bit...
1:23:12Well, they're convinced it's a little bit private.
1:23:15It may be one or both.
1:23:18They're both very actively under consideration.
1:23:22But also, there are two others under very active consideration.
1:23:29And I haven't decided yet.
1:23:32I'll just say, you have not decided?
1:23:34I have not made a decision.
1:23:38These people screwed up on the China trip.
1:23:42They screwed up on the economic policy.
1:23:47They screwed up on the Soviet trip.
1:23:49They're going to screw up on this.
1:23:53They just try to be too goddamn smart, that's all.
1:23:56And they're not going to find out.
1:23:59I sort of like the way that you're giving many hints.
1:24:04Right, and I haven't even hinted at the fact that at all.
1:24:08We're just stuck with what they're saying.
1:24:10I'd rather play it that way.
1:24:11Actually, if you know the name of the person who was at the ABA, you have a perfect reason for that.
1:24:20Well, you didn't submit it to the ABA because it automatically was unfair to the people.
1:24:30Well, one thing I want you to put down is a good phrase that I, I can't really read because I'm just thinking about it.
1:24:42I feel like, you know, my experience in the sense that I've heard it before, like, and listened to it.
1:24:48I'm not, you know, quite going to support what you're saying.
1:24:53I think it's been a hillary of the press, a hillary of the press, you know.
1:25:12destroy it.
1:25:14I want that put to him.
1:25:17I want to remind you, President, President takes care to have a name submitted, and then simply for inspiration, and then have it, glory to the Christ, without having his side of it adequately presented first.
1:25:33I'm going to present the names as far as I'm concerned.
1:25:40You're right.
1:25:42But I don't want to reflect that today.
1:25:49Well, they are...
1:26:07No.
1:26:08The interest is focused on Supreme Court and then, of course, on the Phase II board, which I understand we're shooting for Friday on that now.
1:26:17Thank you so much.
1:26:20For William Rapp today was named a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
1:26:23What?
1:26:23I almost fainted when I heard that.
1:26:35It's the most incredible thing I've ever in my life seen.
1:26:43It is good.
1:26:44It is good.
1:26:47It's good.
1:26:48It's good.
1:26:49It's good.
1:26:51It's good.
1:26:51It's good.
1:26:54It's good.
1:26:57It's good.
1:26:57It's good.
1:26:58It's good.
1:27:03He better not be in detention any time.
1:27:07That would really create a stir.
1:27:09You know, I had real problems.
1:27:13We had problems there.
1:27:15Henry and Bill Rogers.
1:27:17Bill Rogers had been released.
1:27:18Henry, of course, had been released.
1:27:22Of course, he was an asshole.
1:27:23He already spent it all in the Nobel Peace Prize.
1:27:46Uh, this is Eric, uh...
1:27:53But the, uh...
1:27:54I was gonna say, one of the trees, off in the wild, there's a quirk.
1:28:00Mary McCurry, how she must be dying, so Henry's trip became a rescue operation.
1:28:04Man, that was a weird battle last night.
1:28:08No, she stayed alive.
1:28:09So you have to consider the sort, huh?
1:28:12You have to consider that source.
1:28:15She slipped off about three years ago.
1:28:17She went to that poor woman, you know, she said, it's her best cooperation with us.
1:28:22Christ takes it.
1:28:23He's violent against us, but he doesn't write to us.
1:28:27One thing, Bob, that I don't want to be sure we have very clear, I don't want this to go to clients.
1:28:34I don't want to get into our time with people I'm listening to.
1:28:39It is worth it, Bob.
1:28:42It really isn't.
1:28:44I mean, when you read, I mean, it is from now until the election, you've got to realize you're going to be totally against it.
1:28:49I realize the leader, Christ, is against it.
1:28:52But he is against it, and he will only write some of the figures.
1:28:56I just wouldn't bother with people like that.
1:28:59I just wouldn't do it.
1:29:00Let me put it this way, there are so many others that need to be, that need a little attention.
1:29:05And so listen to our crowd today, there's really, really, he's indicating something against it.
1:29:14I don't, don't do it anymore.
1:29:15I don't want Pius that way.
1:29:17I don't want Quine that way.
1:29:20I don't want Scali that way.
1:29:22You've got to play this goddamn coldly.
1:29:23You don't see everybody, do you?
1:29:24No, I don't.
1:29:27I just keep on waiting over and over.
1:29:29It's like...
1:29:30It's simple.
1:29:31It's like hanging with Joe Kraft.
1:29:34I mean, if you see Jay Kraft, he has one good story on the floor.
1:29:39Is that hole you're going to open up a little?
1:29:42Not yet.
1:29:43Not yet?
1:29:44Not yet.
1:29:45Do I think we should sense it?
1:29:46No, it's fine, fine, fine.
1:29:47No, I... We're hurting.
1:29:49I think we're about ready to do it.
1:29:52All right, don't do it.
1:29:53Don't go, I have a deep mouth here, but I am sure that you told me that Rob was opening up on you.
1:29:57I am.
1:29:57At the right time.
1:29:58I am.
1:29:58Yes, sir.
1:29:58I definitely am.
1:30:00I put it this way.
1:30:02That opening up in the head is far more important.
1:30:04Listen to her dialogue.
1:30:07Well, yes, I do.
1:30:08His influence is outside of what he writes.
1:30:12He, Lissagor, is a strange duck.
1:30:17He will get out there, he will talk out here in a different way around his colleagues and influence his colleagues differently than
1:30:39for example, another Johnson thing, which doesn't get much blood anyway.
1:30:45It's a strange thing with Wissador.
1:30:48And I don't know... Yeah, I met with Teddy White yesterday, who's in here.
1:30:54And he... Well, he doesn't want to go to town in the worst way.
1:31:00He's very, very frankly about it.
1:31:09I think in some degree he does that.
1:31:14How is he homeless?
1:31:16Well, you really can't pick out a specific.
1:31:20I only talk to people.
1:31:24I consider him to be sort of a grand and successful.
1:31:35Well, I think just in terms of attitude, and in terms of his attitude as he moves amongst the press.
1:31:45I'll tell you another guy like that, and it's a hard thing to say sometimes, but Osborne has a...
1:31:55mesmerizing effects off of those guys.
1:31:58It's amazing.
1:31:58It is amazing.
1:31:59He was so impressed by that Japanese thing.
1:32:04Everybody now is running around saying, wasn't that impressive?
1:32:08We've done it a hundred times.
1:32:09It was impressive the first time.
1:32:14Well...
1:32:16So I just...
1:32:18I understand.
1:32:19Let me put it this way.
1:32:21I'm not thinking so much in that term.
1:32:26Should they affect the television guys?
1:32:28Absolutely.
1:32:29Well, if they do, then it's important.
1:32:31See, but Peter, listen to me.
1:32:32What they write is not important.
1:32:34What they write affects the television guys more than anyone.
1:32:36Because the television guys are better than anyone.
1:32:40Absolutely.
1:32:40Well, you see my point.
1:32:41Yes, sir.
1:32:42I know the client's problem.
1:32:43There's a client, and he's changing something.
1:32:46The client always...
1:32:48Peter Lissagor has not gotten an exclusive out of the White House.
1:32:54Lissagor has never gotten an exclusive from me.
1:32:59What I try and do with Lissagor is keep him neutralized just by how I deal with him and how I play into his ego a lot.
1:33:06He has a big, you know, laughing at his dirty jokes occasionally.
1:33:19That type of thing.
1:33:20Never forget the time he did it at four or something.
1:33:28Oh, he knew exactly what he was doing.
1:33:33But the problem there is there's no appeal on this.
1:33:36I'm not believing even the White House will respond.
1:33:40It's far greater next year.
1:33:42You will not get an answer.
1:33:43Neither will I.
1:33:44Would you get those dates over here?
1:33:47If you agree on March 15th, the correspondence is set, but it's probably going to be, what is it, April 14th or something like that.
1:33:54We have the problem with that.
1:33:56Well, now I'm full of those.
1:33:57I've got the best of ideas, and I'm going to be done with the irrigated deliverance.
1:34:02I'm going to send it out there.
1:34:05Or I'm going to send it out to the vice president.
1:34:09The vice president is going to find everything that we have.
1:34:17And everybody that was with me, I don't need a command.
1:34:20It's the greater part.
1:34:22And I've got to fight it pretty hard.
1:34:25We're going to send two of those men to France.
1:34:30Tell them to change their dinner.
1:34:33Oh, I'm going to just wait.
1:34:37I'm going to have them change their dinner.
1:34:41If you do that, could I serve in the White House?
1:34:44I could be a waiter.
1:34:54They did something wrong.
1:34:57Very wrong.
1:35:03We're going to do the photographers next year.
1:35:08Just to drop by, though.
1:35:10Yeah.
1:35:1115 minutes.
1:35:12I don't think I have time.
1:35:14Don't go.
1:35:15That's not wrong.
1:35:16No, just drop in 15 minutes.
1:35:17Don't even put on a tux.
1:35:19Just drop by and drop.
1:35:23Present the award or something or say hello to them.
1:35:25Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
1:35:28Actually, all of the entertainment is so atrocious.
1:35:31Well, you want to leave because the entertainment is so atrocious.
1:35:34That's too nice.
1:35:35You have to do that stuff.
1:35:36That's the wrong thing to do.
1:35:38Johnson was smart on that.
1:35:40He didn't do it.
1:35:41We up one.
1:35:42By doing it, you've done that kind of thing.
1:35:44Oh, absolutely.
1:35:45Yeah.
1:36:02Marty Schramm can't get near me, even in the briefing room.
1:36:05That's right, absolutely.
1:36:06That's the one publication that I would be very delighted with, and I think we should do this.
1:36:12Oh, no, I mean to ask, and that includes Los Angeles Times.
1:36:17I buy that down.
1:36:18You understand?
1:36:19I will not have a Los Angeles Times because they put this in.
1:36:25They will not have this.
1:36:27Elsewhere, Los Angeles Times ain't going to go.
1:36:30That may not mean.
1:36:33to our advantage because of their new service.
1:36:38See, the new sale won't hurt as much as it turns out.
1:36:41If it turns out, we will recommend it.
1:36:44See, time is a different thing.
1:36:46I'll have to look at it a lot of times.
1:36:49But my point is, if we manage to find it turns out, I don't think any of those specials will be invited.
1:36:57Because the numbers out there on the forehead
1:37:05So with that, it should be the wire service.
1:37:08I mean, they sell them the TV, wire service, the wires, and that's it.
1:37:11Don't you start with the annual magazines and all the rest.
1:37:16The TV comes first.
1:37:16The wires come second.
1:37:18And after that, this is the others.
1:37:21You can't move.
1:37:23You're not going to make a thousand that.
1:37:26We just got to see one thing come up with us, a final figure, and then sit down and work out.
1:37:32But that's it.
1:37:33Coverage that we can get out of what's there.
1:37:35This is what we're going to be talking about.
1:37:40What we're going to do with our anchors.
1:37:41We went exactly the other way around.
1:37:42The idea that, well, we put the New York Times coverage and all the rest of it way down the line on TV and radio.
1:37:48Just the way we're totally turned upside down.
1:37:51We're going to do what's on our anchors this time.
1:37:56It's on our anchors to take any writing for us.
1:37:59Except the AP and UP.
1:38:01That's what I said.
1:38:05Thank you.
1:38:26One thing I didn't raise when we were talking about that John Rose and all the California employment and all the points that he covered that I didn't raise that may be worth at least thinking about.
1:38:35And that is he's saying he would strongly suggest that we tell that he could go easy on the federal employment reduction exercise.
1:38:43You know, we've made the grandstand play out of the question whether we really want to deliver.
1:38:51He makes the point that the required personnel cut, DOD, to set off a vast planning exercise is going to take most of October.
1:38:57It's diverted resources and people from the California effort.
1:39:01He questions whether that's worth it.
1:39:03And can we at some point soon say we have got 5% of some federal fund number and then forget it?
1:39:09Then after the election, we go through the real reduction with the Civil Service Quality Control Program and all that.
1:39:17You see now, and that's a good point, that the first known cuts of this are merely eliminated the youngest and most competent people in a department.
1:39:23That's, we're getting some of that.
1:39:27And that's a question of whether we really want to make the, if we do want to make it, then we've got to do it.
1:39:33But whether we really do want to make the, make the cuts, I'm sure.
1:39:36Alright, I think we've made the grandstand, and I'll soften it up.
1:39:46How about something that's selective then?
1:39:48Something that's selective.
1:39:49Now let me tell you this though, and I know you just, like everybody else, you can't believe this, but can they do what I want to do with regard to public broadcasting?
1:39:59Can they do what they want to do with regard to that goddamn Peace Corps thing?
1:40:04You cut it back 15 to 20 percent, that one.
1:40:08Now I'm not concerned, see Johnny Rose is a liberal, and he would be concerned about some of the young people, and that all would not be done.
1:40:15No, he's going the other way.
1:40:16That's not what he's after.
1:40:18And cutting that, that, that, that of course compensates for these cuts by cutting ATW, by cutting H-U-V, by cutting transportation, by cutting the Peace Corps.
1:40:29Action is called.
1:40:32Let us go on the fence, let us go on the fence, let us rise, rise.
1:40:37Goddamn, I guess, I mean, Schultz hasn't been at this point at all.
1:40:43Yeah, but I feel very strongly that those, that kind of agency that I don't like, ought to be cut.
1:40:50Already by the, yeah, I sure do.
1:40:51They're all our enemies.
1:40:52Cut our enemies out.
1:40:53Yeah, I mean, we're out of our minds to just tell everybody, good, bad, or otherwise, to cut 5%.
1:40:59What we should be doing is cutting 50%.
1:41:01I mean, in fact, in a lot of places, you've said that.
1:41:04I've said that.
1:41:05It's hard to keep people alive like that.
1:41:15It is hard.
1:41:16All the people that sit here in Washington, D.C. meet all the nice people.
1:41:19They bring their kids.
1:41:20Dude, was this just before Christmas?
1:41:22That'll be fun.
1:41:23No, that's all the time before Christmas.
1:41:25No, really, that's what's gonna come up.
1:41:28Sure.
1:41:29That's what we can't do with this.
1:41:32Oh, Christ.
1:41:33Sure, you can't run with it.
1:41:35It just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
1:41:37Goddamn, man.
1:41:38We've got it.
1:41:39Okay, we've got it.
1:41:41Cut, snake.
1:41:52And of course, there was a recession.
1:41:57There wasn't.
1:41:58There never was.
1:42:23That's the whole problem with the country, everybody.
1:42:25It was not bound.
1:42:26I don't know if that's a quote, but you see what my story is.
1:42:28It's one of those things.
1:42:30Imagine what it would be without it.
1:42:41Everybody would be batting it out as hatchets without the shells flying around.
1:42:53Okay.
1:43:22Archer is someone of the same, except that when the chips are down, his judgmental rights are legal.
1:43:30Archer is one of the people who consider that he's smarter than anybody else regardless.
1:43:36Kissinger has some awe of the presidency.
1:43:43Archer has none.
1:43:43That's exactly right.
1:43:45Archer has absolutely no awe of the presidency.
1:43:47He has great ego for what the presidency can give him.
1:43:57There are other people like Coffey from all these companies.
1:44:02There really are.
1:44:05Well, there are people.
1:44:09I think if your family could have taken it, then you're called on.
1:44:14Look, you'd be a good cabin officer.
1:44:16You'd be out there charging.
1:44:21I mean, rather than saying it, for example, it would be perfectly candid, wouldn't it?
1:44:27stands, is loyal, says the right thing, does the right thing, but it doesn't have much spark.
1:44:32But, you know, we need a guy out in the black company that can speak and go in front of which that's what it is all about.
1:44:39I have a vision, too.
1:44:40I need to limit myself.
1:44:41You know, there are two examples of people that are good at their public relations.
1:44:44So when you come right now to a God that will not, you know, it won't be strong.
1:44:53But I...
1:44:54I'm sure you're right that there are people, but I'm not sure where they are.
1:45:00Where they are, what they're doing in Christ, you look through the governors.
1:45:04Look through the Senate.
1:45:07Well, that's the reason why you ought to have somebody over the planet looking for people.
1:45:14See, he's got it naturally.
1:45:16He's easier to people.
1:45:16I think the malloc generation... Well, I started with the malloc doing it, and he works on a totally different basis.
1:45:21He does it all over the country.
1:45:24And he does it, and not on the basis of who he or somebody else knows.
1:45:27He does it on the basis of the track record and what other people we don't know.
1:45:30The malloc has been a gold mine for a long time.
1:45:35The money I get from the malloc is really good.
1:45:42It's pretty likely a repetition of what everybody else has done.
1:45:46When they came up, always with the same guy, they had old names.
1:45:49I really, it's a really good trip.
1:45:51Well, who knows?
1:45:51I said, well, here's Gordon Gray.
1:45:57So Gordon Gray, he's up to two years old.
1:45:59I said, well, I know old Gordon.
1:46:01Fine.
1:46:02Yeah.
1:46:03It's really true.
1:46:05It isn't all that bad, but really it is.
1:46:07The things we get, and it's not just black people.
1:46:10I do the same thing.
1:46:12Anybody asks me, who do I know?
1:46:13I always say, who the hell do I know?
1:46:16Your personnel man should be somebody that isn't doing it that way.
1:46:19You should be calling this country.
1:46:22You should go in Chicago and say, who's the best man in Chicago?
1:46:24That's exactly the goal.
1:46:25They're in Los Angeles, St. Louis.
1:46:28Decode.
1:46:28Go into the various rooms.
1:46:30The business council.
1:46:30Remember the, uh, the little electric news?
1:46:33Try to go to the business council and say, well, who is the heavyweight that's goddamn hot there?
1:46:42You think Peter's the guy on the textual thing on the other side of the business?
1:46:46Yeah.
1:46:48Then over here.
1:46:52I see the media in Sweden, you know, super heavy-handed.
1:46:56Back in the school, we haven't gotten to.
1:47:00I think he's irritated.
1:47:01But heavy hands, you were light-handed for two years and never gotten to where at some point a heavy hand was required.
1:47:07I put it on there, wasn't it?
1:47:08Rockets, it's got the state on it.
1:47:10When the state came up, they leaped to you.
1:47:13You saw that.
1:47:14That's wrong.
1:47:21A lot of villages, if he doesn't do something, it's awfully hard for him to...
1:47:26Resided in something back in town.
1:47:28He also did, you know, he, you know, was, he first said Stan wasn't good, and Kennedy wasn't good, and Peterson didn't, of course, he didn't have enough.
1:47:35He didn't try, and he tried, he didn't try, but he came down to it.
1:47:39That, by the way, was done.
1:47:41And what I kind of want to do is praise him.
1:47:43I'm not in the State Department.
1:47:47I don't work in any of these things.
1:47:51So he goes, and I say, all right, Mr. Kripp,
1:47:56He's going to be pressing that.
1:47:57I think what we ought to try to find is a way for Rogers to frankly go to Russia, you know what we call it.
1:48:14But not for the purpose of doing the same thing.
1:48:17Get my point?
1:48:18Let's go.
1:48:23You see, it's better for going to China
1:48:37Absolutely.
1:48:38Because everybody goes to Russia anyway.
1:48:40Well, Bill misses the whole point in saying that he ought to go ahead and advance mission to China, to Russia, because what he's doing then is lowering himself to Kissinger's level.
1:48:49A cabinet officer shouldn't be out doing staff work for the president, for Christ's sake.
1:48:55It's bad enough that Kissinger be doing Kissinger.
1:48:59They'd be doing Kissinger wrong.
1:49:00It should be Hayden and Chickman ought to be out there working that out.
1:49:04Or Holdridge and Chickman.
1:49:08Well, Harry did.
1:49:08He's got that needle in that voice, but he said it all the next time he came around.
1:49:17But it all had a rhyme to those stans.
1:49:22We don't know stans.
1:49:23I mean, in that sense, stans would be big enough.
1:49:30See, I don't give a damn about having a Russian thing.
1:49:33I've been asking people, and he said, well, what's the difference?
1:49:37I mean, your character should be the thing.
1:49:39It doesn't make any difference.
1:49:41Now that it's announced, it doesn't matter.
1:49:44It's been announced, but I don't know what the difference is.
1:49:49Well, what if it was on China?
1:49:51Oh, yeah.
1:49:52Would you say Russia can't enter?
1:49:53Well, it's just like, I think the hardest for the Chinese is not letting any political or congressional people in, and I'll stay with that.
1:50:00I think it would...
1:50:02really take some lead into it.
1:50:04If they do it, then they do.
1:50:05But if we can avoid it, we're well off.
1:50:06On the other hand, in Russia, I don't know.
1:50:09The fact that the governors are all over there now, or were over there, just makes a bit of difference.
1:50:14And if Manseil and Scott and the whole of the United States of Iraq goes over, it would make a bit of difference.
1:50:23Speaking today about the possibility of rockets.
1:50:30Catch that.
1:50:32But we really have to anticipate a problem before it depends.
1:50:35Roger is going to be very tough on us.
1:50:37For the wrong reason.
1:50:42Roger is not very comfortable with this.
1:50:46What he wants is not the religion.
1:50:49He really wants to go ahead and sort of the impression he's around.
1:50:53He arranged the Russians.
1:50:54He didn't arrange the Russians.
1:51:05It's a childish way to go at it.
1:51:07He's just, for his own objective, he's doing it the wrong way, because he puts himself down in the Kissing Gear class, and it's a different, he doesn't really do that.
1:51:17He's totally, he doesn't listen, just because he's addicted to everything.
1:51:22But he can still do it, because I told you the story, probably.
1:51:27I'm not a bit surprised.
1:51:28What irritated me most was that shark story on the star.
1:51:30That's a kind of, it's rough.
1:51:33You're out of the war.
1:51:34We haven't had too much of that.
1:51:36That was pretty rough.
1:51:38It was pretty rough.
1:51:39As far as Bill was concerned, he didn't mention it.
1:51:43But that's the point.
1:51:44Correct?
1:51:44Yeah.
1:51:45Because it was a rough story.
1:51:45It's all a bad story.
1:51:47Very bad.
1:51:48It's a very rough story.
1:51:51But I had nothing to do with it.
1:51:52You should pick it up and take it.
1:51:55A little bit, but it's all the way.
1:52:04If we get much of that, that one story like that doesn't do any harm unless it builds up as a line of thought, which it hasn't yet, but there's a potential for it.
1:52:17Because it's another way to frustrate people who don't like to see you getting anything.
1:52:20That's one way around it is to say that Henry's brilliance is manipulating all these things.
1:52:28You just sit here kind of not knowing what's happening.
1:52:32The point is, major point one, it's not true.
1:52:35And Henry doesn't have all those things.
1:52:41There's no question that Henry's made a major contribution in all this, but he knows, and he's the first one to admit when he's being honest about it that it doesn't have an audience, that, you know, that it's you hanging in on it that's made it, put it, put it together.
1:52:57Not that it's Russian, but it was mine.
1:52:59I was, you know, I never thought of that kind of thing.
1:53:02From the beginning, and you start to wonder what the hell.
1:53:05I guess you know what, you kind of lost your mind.
1:53:07It's right where we're at.
1:53:09The roommate, that was my idea.
1:53:12You know, I mean, not his, that's right.
1:53:14I suggested the roommate.
1:53:14You know what I mean?
1:53:16He said very obviously that he approved it.
1:53:21You know?
1:53:22And, uh,
1:53:30One of the initiatives on the bold strokes that have been here is the bombing shut in Vietnam and all that kind of stuff.
1:53:37You said do it, and then he's figured out a plan and a way to do it.
1:53:39Got it done, which is what he should do.
1:53:41He, though, must not be allowed to.
1:53:48He's had to knock down this kind of story.
1:53:51Yeah, really had to do it.
1:53:53He was very hard on us to do it.
1:53:58One more thing, sir, before I go out.
1:54:01Al Haver's calling about the Willie Braun thing.
1:54:04And I'll be asked, no doubt about it, for a reaction.
1:54:10No.
1:54:10Al felt that we should simply say that... Al thought I should just use one line.
1:54:17The president's pleased by the selection.
1:54:21He sent a note congratulating him.
1:54:23The president's pleased by the selection.
1:54:28Well, I can't really go.
1:54:31Or congratulate someone?
1:54:32Yeah, well, just that, yeah, I think that the president has said that he has a chance for a warm message congratulating.
1:54:40I would say absolutely.
1:54:43Right.
1:54:43The president has noted that he has a chance for a warm message of congratulations.
1:54:50Interesting enough.
1:54:53Better than please.
1:54:54I would say that he has a chance for a warm message.
1:55:00No, he's got a big problem at home.
1:55:02No.
1:55:02We haven't read any messages in a few times.
1:55:07We'll pick up the message.
1:55:09Okay.
1:55:09Okay.
1:55:35John Price leaving to run for office.
1:56:09I have an idea.
1:56:17He can pop the rose, and just perfect, perfect.
1:56:43can be used quite often, Bob.
1:56:44And then Rose, she'll know all the answers herself and she can come in and I'll give them answers.
1:56:50What I don't want to do is to get any reporter in this room and then have to sit there so that they psychoanalyze me and all that bullshit.
1:56:58Get that right?
1:56:59But from now on, have all things like that go to Rose.
1:57:04All things.
1:57:04Is that clear?
1:57:05We're going to write something about me.
1:57:07Go to the secretary.
1:57:08You can talk to her.
1:57:08She can give you most of the information.
1:57:11If you've got any questions, you can... No, I'm not going to take any answers.
1:57:14I'm not going to do that.
1:57:16If you've got any questions, factual questions, why would we be glad to... She'd be glad to tell you that.
1:57:21I'm not going to give an essay on what's my opinion about this letter.
1:57:28She's not a cat.
1:57:36We're going to handle it.
1:57:41I may have a proposal come up this weekend.
1:57:43I've already talked about it.
1:58:04What do you think?
1:58:05Is this business about the money?
1:58:07Yeah.
1:58:07That's better to say.
1:58:10That's good.
1:58:11Well, I have work to do if you want to.
1:58:13Well, I know.
1:58:14I'll come here.
1:58:14But I can work with Gurley.
1:58:15I've been on his family early.
1:58:16I can work with his tax office.
1:58:18I read a hell of a lot of the measures that are piled up.
1:58:23I've got to work on a lot of things.
1:58:25I'll be back.
1:58:32We talked a couple of things.
1:58:35How do we handle the writers' things?
1:58:37If you talk to Al about Bill wanting to go, again, raise the problem.
1:58:43We have questions.
1:58:43We have to talk about it.
1:58:45I've got a whole list of things I want to spend some time with Al on today.
1:58:49Thank you.
1:58:54Well, you talk to him, and then you and Al and I work out a strategy on it.
1:58:58I think we have a clever way to do this.
1:59:00I think Rogers ought to go to Russia.
1:59:02I agree with you.
1:59:03But I think he ought to go maybe with Stans.
1:59:07Not for the purpose of advancing the trip, and he could just go over, he and Stans could go over for the purpose of talking about a trade or something like that.
1:59:19And Henry will go up the goddamn wall.
1:59:21But Henry's got to be ready now.
1:59:23He said, we've got to be a rider or something.
1:59:25A rider's got to pressure us the other way around.
1:59:27The other thing is that, shall we get down there and talk about the Russian advance now, usually?
1:59:31This is a good time.
1:59:33Yeah, sure.
1:59:38Are you ready to fire with me?
1:59:40All right.
1:59:52Hello.
2:00:29On the other hand, as a matter of fact,
2:00:59I think we hear it enough that part of it is subtle, but the other, the fact that I do retain a certain first equilibrium and also the, and avoid the weight problem and the rest makes one hell of a difference to people.
2:01:17It sure does.
2:01:19The fact that you do look very important.
2:01:20And I think I do, as a matter of fact.
2:01:23I can't tell you, but most people are quite surprised.
2:01:27He don't, you know, they expect people to love him.
2:01:30You know, Johnson aged dark, so did Kennedy.
2:01:34But he aged, oh, maybe because of that court of some business and all that, he puffed up.
2:01:39But he looked, he looked very bad.
2:01:43Eisenhower had a change.
2:01:44He was old.
2:01:45Eisenhower had a change.
2:01:46That looked exactly the same when he left as when he had it.
2:01:48Part of it was his equilibrium.
2:01:51He paid it off.
2:01:52Didn't let it bother him.
2:01:55But I don't think I've changed when I go along.
2:01:57Johnson changed enormously.
2:01:59Of course, FDR was like the portrait of Dorian Gray.
2:02:02He went down low at a rapid rate in our lives.
2:02:08And, well, really after the first four or five years, he started deteriorating.
2:02:13Look at the pictures of him, progressively.
2:02:18I was going to talk to you a little about the, how do we have them, the Russians, the Rogers.
2:02:25This is Roy.
2:02:26We've got to work on it.
2:04:10On the other hand, as a matter of fact,
2:04:41I think we hear it enough that part of it is subtle, but the other, the fact that I do retain a certain pretty equilibrium, and also the
2:04:56Boy, the weight problem and the rest makes one hell of a difference to people.
2:05:01It sure does.
2:05:01The fact that you do look very important.
2:05:05And I think I do.
2:05:06I can't judge, but most people are quite surprised.
2:05:10You know, they expect people to look... You know, Johnson aged an artist.
2:05:13I mean, I'm also looking at Kennedy.
2:05:16He aged awful.
2:05:18Maybe because of that courtesan business and all that.
2:05:21He looked very bad.
2:05:25I started to change.
2:05:26He was older.
2:05:27I started to change.
2:05:28That looked exactly the same when he left.
2:05:30Part of it was his equilibrium.
2:05:34It didn't bother him.
2:05:37But I don't think I've changed.
2:05:38Well, Johnson changed enormously.
2:05:41Of course, FDR was like the portrait of Dorian Gray.
2:05:46He went down in a rapid rate.
2:05:49Well, really, after the first four or five years, he started.
2:05:55deteriorate.
2:05:55Look at the pictures of the rest of the world.
2:05:58I was planning to talk to you a little about the, we have the Russian and Rogers relationship, which I think we've got to work on.
2:06:09There was a story that somebody saw, that I think is, that you haven't seen, by George Sherman.
2:06:19George Sherman's story, that George Sherman's story about that Dr. Kissinger was the man
2:06:26Oh, yeah.
2:06:26Oh, yeah.
2:06:27Yes, sir.
2:06:53But even more disturbing to me is this dynamite with Rogers.
2:06:57Absolutely dynamite.
2:06:58Because every time that Peter is angry, is manipulative, and the president in Rogers' name is being mentioned at all, that Rogers can then put himself in a position to say, this is hurting the president.
2:07:10And he's right.
2:07:12Well, he is right.
2:07:13No, I called Henry.
2:07:14That's right, President, because it looks like you're operating for purely cynical reasons.
2:07:19I don't know what you're doing.
2:07:20All this taught me what to do.
2:07:21I made my mind about the commons and all the rest, and I finally agreed with this praise of Paul from Harvard.
2:07:27It was a vicious story.
2:07:28It really was.
2:07:30I called Henry Brown and told him that it was a disaster.
2:07:33And he talked to him?
2:07:36Yeah.
2:07:37He knew about the story?
2:07:39He knew about it when I told him.
2:07:41I sent him a summary of it because I reacted the same way.
2:07:44I thought it was a tragedy.
2:07:46Well, Henry has to be extremely careful in all of his public appearances.
2:07:56I know he's got to be dead clear of what's true.
2:08:01He knows very well how to overshadow the issue.
2:08:05Well, I must say, I've heard him spam on our own campus occasions, and he's usually very good at it.
2:08:14He's got to do it just about the way Conway does.
2:08:19He's got to do it that way.
2:08:26Conway makes up the answer.
2:08:27He comes out ahead.
2:08:27Look what it's done for Conway.
2:08:28That's the thing.
2:08:29The thing is that Kevin Grass would be smart enough to realize.
2:08:32By playing himself down, building the president up, he has built himself into the, you know, scaffolded himself into by far the strongest position in the capitol.
2:08:43He's not where Texas, he's still in California right now, San Francisco.
2:08:49He leaves this afternoon and goes to Texas to be at the ranch tonight.
2:08:56Now, if you can imagine, Rogers is very concerned about Henry's trip here, and so he has now come up with an idea which is totally wrong.
2:09:03You're not to report this to Henry.
2:09:05This is something we've got to handle with a very still boy.
2:09:08We have not reported it to him.
2:09:11We have the credit to have him consider this.
2:09:17Don't worry about me.
2:09:18He doesn't have anything to bother with.
2:09:21Rogers has come up with the idea that he wants to go to
2:09:24Moscow, Justice Henry is going to be keen to advance the Moscow trip.
2:09:28First of all, he's going to be stupid.
2:09:30He's going to be very unmerciful.
2:09:32Second, his right as Secretary of State to him is going to be a sad man.
2:09:36We also know that in terms of what we're trying to accomplish, there's a whole lot going on that he can't handle.
2:09:47He just can't get through.
2:09:49He can't have some deal.
2:09:51I think there's a way to handle the problem.
2:09:54It's a little disturbing to me, but it's the way to do it, and it's not.
2:09:59Let me explain.
2:10:01We have kept Rogers, of course, from going to Moscow.
2:10:05And actually, we would never allow anybody to go to PT before I got there.
2:10:09But everybody goes to Moscow.
2:10:13But a bunch of governors, or anybody, they've got that attention.
2:10:15Secretary of State is going to have to let us know they've got that attention.
2:10:20It is, the main part is the substance, what's involved.
2:10:25I never thought that what we ought to do is to... Bragg has always got that in him.
2:10:33Back in his mind, always the idea that he really would go and therefore be the architect of the Soviet visitation and the architect of the Chinese visitation.
2:10:42That we cannot have, mainly because of the substance.
2:10:44He doesn't know enough about it.
2:10:46He doesn't know what the great world is.
2:10:52Well, the way I'm going to have a Moscow advance, I want you to make a comment.
2:10:57We've got a strong one.
2:10:59Has Henry ever spoken to you about the fact that he would go to Moscow and set up a meeting?
2:11:03He must never go.
2:11:04I don't think he has said anything.
2:11:05He must not go.
2:11:06Henry may have the idea.
2:11:07He'll sit down with Gresham in advance and get the whole scenario, as he said, worked out.
2:11:12But it's not going to be done this time.
2:11:17you don't need to deal with the brain to bring it here that's not that conception and that should be absolutely pardoned henry is not to go to moscow before i do on that night it's not to be ready with me now all the projects that occurred to me that we might have in those hands let it go there
2:11:41The idea being that he's, that the whole purpose is to talk about the trade problem.
2:11:45The Secretary of State goes and sends those notes.
2:11:49And they meet with various people and they'll have a nice little talk and impression and so forth.
2:11:56We'll program your brain in advance as to the fact that we're not going to talk about the trip.
2:12:01That's on purpose.
2:12:05Now, in terms of time, it occurred to me that we'd have you do it right after his day off.
2:12:11He's an exorcist.
2:12:13Now that's possible.
2:12:18We haven't raised him.
2:12:19We haven't raised him.
2:12:22He's racist.
2:12:23He wants to go to Moscow.
2:12:29All good men.
2:12:34And he just wants to go before the China trip.
2:12:37First of all, if he were to go, nobody's going to go to Moscow to advance Moscow before the last of the China trip.
2:12:44That's right, sir.
2:12:44We're going to wait until that trip is over.
2:12:46We should be advanced people, because we don't have any substantive business to handle.
2:12:51It's not a goddamn thing.
2:12:53We don't want to talk about weeding and all those things.
2:12:56We're going to send the same kind of advanced team that we've always sent to Europe and other places we haven't really checked this time.
2:13:03We understand that.
2:13:04But what I'd like you to do, Al, is to figure out a way, maybe the stands, and the reason I said stands is that he's going for a purpose, for the purpose of discussing on the stands.
2:13:13I don't know if you can say that.
2:13:16I believe he's thinking about early November.
2:13:18I've become objective.
2:13:22I've been under his purposes to talk about trade.
2:13:24It's a trade.
2:13:27We're trade discussions.
2:13:29Trade.
2:13:31Now, the holes have been, of course, as we've inevitably had with the U.S. and Russia and so forth, the race, the questions of the medis and all the rest, and the rogues, it's like a split.
2:13:43The latter part of this is true.
2:13:46But on the other hand, we can totally control it.
2:13:49The Russians have been awfully good about that.
2:13:52You know, our whole operation with the Brennan and Hammond coal rogues is about that thing.
2:13:56No, I think my greatest concern would be the Soviet attitude on the visit from Rogers at this time.
2:14:03They had been very, very reluctant for their own purposes.
2:14:08To what?
2:14:09To have Rogers?
2:14:10To have a summit or anything else at this time.
2:14:14I'm just not sure that they want to do it in the terms of that time.
2:14:17I think Henry is a manageable factor in the thing, Ellen.
2:14:24It's his main concern and my main concern.
2:14:27Not to screw up the substance.
2:14:29It's not to screw up the substance, and I'm especially concerned about European security, which is the major objective of the Soviet Union, to tear NATO apart and the alliance apart.
2:14:39That's the vehicle they're going to use.
2:14:42They've had it for two years in their crawl, and that worries me.
2:14:48And he's moving fast on that.
2:14:50Who?
2:14:50The Secretary.
2:14:53He's called Dobrynin.
2:14:54He's got Hildebrand talking to Dobrynin on the subject.
2:14:58It's the most dangerous single force.
2:15:03Well, he's treating this the same as the Middle East.
2:15:09He said, this is my preserve, and I'm going to move on it, and...
2:15:25I know what his conceptions are when he starts on something like this.
2:15:28He's got to bring in a little confused.
2:15:31He's told to bring in, you've made him the man for this topic.
2:15:38And I think we have to be very, very careful.
2:15:40It's not the man for the topic.
2:15:43It's not the man for the topic.
2:15:54Well, that's what he should do.
2:15:59I have no indication that that isn't his strategy.
2:16:24It's a very dangerous thing to get going on a separate wicket when it's the essential aspect of the Soviet objective in everything we're doing.
2:16:34The problem you get there is that Bill gets the tendency, as he does in the Mideast, to look for... Well, he has a franchise to operate without any cooperation or even any communication.
2:16:54to refuse to let anybody know what he's doing here.
2:17:00And that's where you get into a problem, because you get your own things going one way, and then he walks in on his wicked Michael.
2:17:12They're talking about European security, that we can't do it.
2:17:15That would, I think, be Henry's main concern.
2:17:17It would be mine.
2:17:20And they would be very, very receptive.
2:17:22They'd love it.
2:17:23I would have those.
2:17:25Going after NATO would be the problem, while that one won't work.
2:17:29Just forget you heard it.
2:17:33Bill might want to slip in and say, well, I've arranged a European security conference.
2:17:38Could Christ say that we want a European security conference?
2:17:41He knows better than that.
2:17:43We don't want it at all.
2:17:45We may have agreed on some kind, but we don't want it now.
2:17:49Well, we have a lot of things to do.
2:17:50That's what we get from the Russians.
2:17:53God damn it.
2:17:54And by trade, I'm not going to give any.
2:17:56The trade thing is, we're going back to where we get them now.
2:18:02Well, is there anything that needs to be done for the Breeders to cool him off?
2:18:05Well, not before Henry gets back.
2:18:06Henry's back Monday.
2:18:07No, I don't think we have any problems.
2:18:09Don't worry.
2:18:10Well, how does the Breeders get the word that the Breeders is not handling European security?
2:18:14I mean, it doesn't have any branches here in the damn thing.
2:18:19Breeders is just doing the talking with me.
2:18:21They don't have any consultants.
2:18:23Well, they told us to defend.
2:18:24You can't treat them solely in America.
2:18:26No, sir.
2:18:27I mean, it's great.
2:18:29I think the two men are going to be pulled together on this subject, and that's always the safest way.
2:18:34And he's got the letter I can write to the Europeans, not the Russians.
2:18:40This is not the time to talk to the Russians about European security.
2:18:44No, I think, and that's what's going to be our saving grace if we can get the Europeans to be opposed, and I think most of them will be.
2:18:51Then we can just point out to the Soviets that our hands are tied and we have to move forward.
2:18:56Do you think there will be a solution?
2:18:58I think that Iran, of course, will be hell-bent for election, but I think the French will be... Well, this needed to be pointed out.
2:19:05Jesus Christ, that's the most shocking thing I've ever heard of this.
2:19:12shows you how the goddamn world has come to.
2:19:15Well, of course, he was with the Kurds.
2:19:16He was the Times' man of the year and all the rest.
2:19:19You know, it almost makes you think the Communists controlled those wars.
2:19:23What do you think?
2:19:24Well, I think they have a strong influence on them.
2:19:26They've always had.
2:19:27That Nobel gang is... God, look at some of the past candidates.
2:19:32Martin Luther King.
2:19:35Martin Luther, that's right.
2:19:40You know, it's a rarity for them to come up with a solid guy, especially an American they'll never pick.
2:19:45You know, like America.
2:19:46No American should have sent him into this, really.
2:19:55Cheating.
2:19:55On the summit, Soviet side, sir, we're in an entirely different range of problems with the Soviets.
2:20:02To send someone like the Secretary of State on an advance would suggest
2:20:09Let me say, I don't blame your problem.
2:20:12That has ruled out totally.
2:20:14I don't even consider it for other reasons anyway.
2:20:18that we have relations with the Soviet.
2:20:21I'm just trying to think of a way to get Harry off on something that doesn't involve substance.
2:20:25That's all.
2:20:26I don't give a damn what it is, but except that.
2:20:29You don't have to advance one goddamn thing.
2:20:31I think there's nothing to advance.
2:20:34I think there's nothing to be built up on as European.
2:20:36Yeah, that's right.
2:20:37That's what I'm thinking about.
2:20:38You have a lot of showcase stories.
2:20:41That's what you always have when you get...
2:20:43Well, he's average Russian, but he makes a point that, you know, Finch is off to Latin America, and Compton is off to Asia, and the vice president's off to the rockin' birthplace, Greece.
2:20:56Well, why doesn't Rodgers do a European tour?
2:21:00And why doesn't he send me to European countries at the same time?
2:21:06One way or another, but we haven't been there, other than he might be too hungry.
2:21:15See, he could do preliminary work and get the credit for doing preliminary work before a power meeting, which could be dumped in in conjunction with NATO, but I don't think that you're... No, I'm not so sure they're against it, sir.
2:21:33I think they were against the idea of coming here.
2:21:37and meeting with you, but in the context of the alliance, I think they would probably be in favor of it.
2:21:43We're going to go to Paris.
2:21:44That's right, because the game they're trying to play is with us in the special relationship.
2:21:48Yes, I understand that.
2:21:50We'll do it if I remember.
2:21:54Well, they're really doing what we pushed them to do years ago.
2:21:56We should have another time.
2:22:00Well, maybe we ought to try to get progress.
2:22:03I think the major Europeans were at this time.
2:22:06I think we need a lot of...
2:22:08The U.S. could use a big show of... And also, why don't we do this?
2:22:14I think what Roberts ought to do is... Because Henry just...
2:22:35Consciously irritates Rogers.
2:22:36Every time he talks to him.
2:22:38There's no way he can talk to him without irritating him.
2:22:40You know, he just can't help it because, you know, they're just bad.
2:22:45Get the hell away.
2:22:46I think what we ought to do is to have Rogers do some consulting with regard to our European friends and so forth prior to the Soviet Union.
2:22:54So he should go around.
2:22:55Let him go home to Europe.
2:22:59And also, it may be a fairly extended effort.
2:23:02It's an extended trip of planning on the European thing.
2:23:04And also, I think he ought to do two or three countries in which he could do some Latin American consultation.
2:23:12Because we've got to have some sort of a Latin American meeting, I think, on the web.
2:23:16That's absolutely right.
2:23:18Where the hell can we talk about that?
2:23:20Rogers?
2:23:21Now that's not that one place where we can't give him a branch.
2:23:25I'll repeat, I need to hand the hell out to him.
2:23:29I mean, he would tell me, but that's where, like Rogers, I said, why can't we go to, he had to discuss it with Pinterest, or they're going to ask.
2:23:38Where did you come from?
2:23:41Black America.
2:23:45Yeah.
2:23:45We came in Brazil.
2:23:47That is the way of it.
2:23:55I go to Brazil, frankly, if I were you.
2:23:57I go to Brazil.
2:24:00It's basically a capital.
2:24:03If you go to Brazil, you have no demonstrator problems at all.
2:24:07I think they could handle it.
2:24:10They only had the facilities, yes, sir.
2:24:13But I think maybe a Latin American meeting with the Chief of State would be very useful.
2:24:21Mexico.
2:24:21Mexico City, of course.
2:24:28I think that's worth a lot of careful attention and something that we get.
2:24:32Well, you follow up on that now with Rogers.
2:24:37Let him think.
2:24:38Let him think, Al.
2:24:39He's doing something.
2:24:41Henry...
2:24:43Henry treats everybody like an air boy.
2:24:46He doesn't, he just can't help accepting everybody.
2:24:49Bob, you know how he does.
2:24:51He just doesn't, and he says, now don't do this, and don't do this, and don't do that.
2:24:55He can't treat.
2:24:57He's got to control it, but he's got to learn to do it without treating them as if they didn't know that they couldn't hold their hands.
2:25:04Let them have the ideas.
2:25:05Let them have the credit.
2:25:06I talked to Henry about this.
2:25:08I said, for Christ's sake, Henry, it's a good idea.
2:25:10Don't let it appear to be yours.
2:25:11Let it appear to be theirs.
2:25:16No, I don't.
2:25:18All right, how about letting Rogers work on that?
2:25:23Would you do it?
2:25:24Do you see any objection to that?
2:25:26No, I think it's a good idea.
2:25:27I think it's urgently needed.
2:25:28I think it's going to be a democratic platform that should be involved.
2:25:35And when will you have it?
2:25:37Well, at my point, it's going to take some months to get ready because of the disarray earlier.
2:25:43Probably December.
2:25:45How about a time that we could let off the surcharge on it?
2:25:49That's what I would think.
2:25:50If we could combine it with that, then we'd really have an era of accomplishment.
2:25:57I want to do something like a pleated apartment.
2:25:59How about a time that I remove the surcharge from Latin America?
2:26:02That would be a good idea, sir.
2:26:13Well...
2:26:15But we've got to start it now.
2:26:16Don't wait until he ever gets back.
2:26:18Because then he'll get his hands on it.
2:26:19I don't know what will happen.
2:26:21He'll call Rogers in like a little boy and tell him to do it.
2:26:25You know that's the way it's going to work.
2:26:28And Rogers will be furious.
2:26:29He'll do it, but he won't like it.
2:26:31Then maybe we'll have lost the whole benefit.
2:26:33Sir, so you call Rogers and tell him that I've mentioned this.
2:26:37It could be.
2:26:38But tell him that the President would appreciate it if he...
2:26:42rather than Charlie Meyer, that is, I'm going to tell you, a candidate that I have a hell of a lot of confidence in, Meyer, I think he's fine with speaking Spanish, but I don't think he's very good in terms of overall taking the place in the rest, and for he and you to work it out, because you and he would like to work it out together.
2:26:58And you're increasingly concerned about that.
2:27:00Yeah.
2:27:01The left arm is going to be becoming an issue.
2:27:04I think the bill should start this consultation with major lands and countries immediately on it, you know.
2:27:10Don't do it after ministry terms, which is starting so that we can set it, make it within a month, in 30 days, by the 1st of December.
2:27:22And I've asked you, if he could get to work, I'm going to tell him.
2:27:25I want you to tell him that I'm attentive and that I just would particularly want him
2:27:32to supervise this, that he just, he doesn't want to talk to Meyer about it, because I have no confidence in Meyer.
2:27:39I mean, I don't have, I don't think it's critical that he's, I don't think he's fine on a computer-computer basis, but he has to.
2:27:45It's a bigger problem for this one.
2:27:47This problem is too big.
2:27:49It's too big.
2:27:49It's too big.
2:27:51And it should be closely held and so forth.
2:27:53But I want the president, I want the secretary to direct the whole thing.
2:27:58You will be the White House contact.
2:28:01See?
2:28:01And tell them that you will work out the date with all of them that we've been working on.
2:28:06who had us contact, and I'm thinking of a meeting any place they want in Latin America.
2:28:11But I think it practically probably ought to be, it has to be a three, four day meeting.
2:28:14It's got to be, because I'll have to be the whole Chief of State of the Division.
2:28:18So it'll be a long time, but that's all right.
2:28:21There's no better way to spend our time.
2:28:23It's a goddamn good thing, huh?
2:28:25It's a good way to spend time.
2:28:27Good way to spend time.
2:28:29If you can go to one place and have a meeting and avoid, uh, I'm just kidding.
2:28:33I'm not going to make any calls out of the country.
2:28:34I must go to a place, and I must sit in this area where there's no one there with me.
2:28:42We could get it all firmed up.
2:28:44He spoke to me about going to the OAS.
2:28:48That's all right with me, too.
2:28:50But they're telling me to figure out the options, and we'd like to decide that very soon.
2:28:55To do a, could put the clincher on when the medicine's here, if necessary.
2:29:00Yeah, he's here on the 7th.
2:29:03He's there.
2:29:03Maybe we'd like to work it out before medicine gets here.
2:29:06In fact, we don't need...
2:29:09Maybe we don't want to announce it when he's here, but... Oh, okay.
2:29:15If we're their energy, that's the biggest country.
2:29:17But I personally think that Brazil must live that way.
2:29:20That's my personal choice.
2:29:21For security and other reasons, it's the biggest country.
2:29:25It's the center of the country, the damn continent.
2:29:29And also, it's up to them to take leadership, and after that... Do they have hotel facilities there?
2:29:34Oh, sure.
2:29:34One day.
2:29:34They just make it there.
2:29:37They've got to have a system.
2:29:38But you got the press and all that.
2:29:42Screw the press.
2:29:43The town is 500,000, mid-thousand people.
2:29:45Well, I think they have everything.
2:29:47I think they have everything.
2:29:48Oh, yes.
2:29:48This place is built up fast.
2:29:51But you see, every chief of state in the state is innocent.
2:29:54Sure.
2:29:55No problem there.
2:29:56And the hotel, their status, they don't like it.
2:30:00I'm sure they have great facilities because it's so isolated, they have to do that.
2:30:05Yeah, I bet you they have.
2:30:07It's terrible.
2:30:08But the main thing is it's controllable.
2:30:10Yeah, controllable.
2:30:12Like Rio would be a landmine.
2:30:16I think your idea about Rogers is correct, too, that in terms of the European thing,
2:30:24And we really ought to have him make a consultative tour of Europe, planning those over for the NATO meeting.
2:30:31If you said, first, they'd find it as Henry has talked about having the NATO meeting turned into a chief of state meeting, what do you think of that?
2:30:40Well, I don't know if you were in the time frame, but I think personally, sir, that it's going to be essential for you to meet with these Western European leaders.
2:30:50All of them?
2:30:52Well, certainly the four.
2:30:55Well, the four, after that.
2:30:56Yeah, that's right.
2:30:57I think it should be before Moscow.
2:31:01Yeah, really, before Peking.
2:31:03And it's just got to be, you're moving from a base of unity and consultation.
2:31:10And hopefully we could perhaps do it.
2:31:12Well, why don't you tell a bit about yourself?
2:31:17Discuss with him also the idea of what about a, before Peking and Moscow, that this, but Cullick don't ask anybody, because he doesn't know we've already consulted these people, you know, and turned down.
2:31:33What did we come up with on the fire of Pompidou?
2:31:37I don't wait for Henry to get back, because Henry will come back and he'll spend a month to think about it before he decides.
2:31:42We've got to start moving.
2:31:44You see, Al left Henry a handful of plays that even didn't matter.
2:31:50He's handed Moscow a big game, but Henry's got to stay the hell out of Ecuadorian vigorous and all this other bullshit that he sends in here.
2:31:58He's just got to stay out of it.
2:32:00Let the State Department handle the crowd.
2:32:02Don't you agree?
2:32:03Oh, I do, sir.
2:32:06I think he would, too.
2:32:07You never think about it.
2:32:14They've got a feel that they do something.
2:32:15Of course they do.
2:32:17You can't help but think they're arrogant.
2:32:19You hear it, and do a lot of the arrogant meaning, and you're listening, and you're setting yourself up for a problem of not doing after the whole deal.
2:32:30Africa has no interest in the differences.
2:32:33The point is that Latin America is part of an alliance.
2:32:37Yeah.
2:32:37And we have no alliance in Africa.
2:32:41We don't have relations with the OAU.
2:32:44Screw Africa.
2:32:46We don't consult with a bunch of goddamn cannibals before you go somewhere else.
2:32:51I don't think there's any problem at all in Africa.
2:32:54I'd counsel them if there's an issue.
2:32:58No, sir.
2:32:59That'll help.
2:33:00Africa is not going to be done.
2:33:03No, I think it would be a waste of time.
2:33:05Well, there's not enough to talk to him about.
2:33:10Good luck, then.
2:33:12No, Africa, everybody knows that it's not our sphere of influence, too.
2:33:16That's a European sphere of influence.
2:33:18It's ours, but Latin America is.
2:33:19They're our friends.
2:33:23Okay, if you handle this as subtly as you can, and say, now listen, these are the things we want to do, but tell them that secrecy is the thing that's most important.
2:33:33That's why don't get it down to the bowels of bureaucracy and hand it to the painters.
2:33:39Until we are ready to go, because we'll get slapped out in public, we have.
2:33:43By some country abroad.
2:33:45Just say, let's do this.
2:33:47In the game, you might already get two or three majors agreeing to it, and then spring it off.
2:33:53Now, on the European one, you want to ask him about, about bracing the NATO meeting for the heads of state, and then, of course, that'd be all of them.
2:34:03Is that a good idea, Razor?
2:34:04Now, I...
2:34:04I wonder.
2:34:06I think we'd be better off... With the four?
2:34:08With the four, sir.
2:34:10How do you do that, really?
2:34:13They may be here to tell Rockies about that.
2:34:16I think on that one I would wait until Henry gets back because it's so it's it's so intimately intermeshing this security conference and assault agreement.
2:34:32But the way I think I would do it would be to ask Pompey to host a working dinner or a day at a weekend place where the heads have stayed in the floor in conjunction with the
2:34:46nato ministerial meeting uh would come i think i think they could all do it on a just for one session as a as a ceremonial thing that would have all the heads of state of the ministry no sir i don't think so it's a little unmanageable i i would keep it down to the ministers and myself at the ministerial meetings
2:35:14Well, I think we have to sort this out very carefully.
2:35:17It can be done very quickly.
2:35:20And when we move, we only move
2:35:42very decisively to do it, I have a feeling that they will all welcome it, including the British, because it's in the context of the European alliance.
2:35:55In fact, Annenberg came in about a week ago and suggested they were very anxious to have such a thing, the British were.
2:36:02He had it out of their sight.
2:36:03Wow, I think he was four.
2:36:05Yes, sir.
2:36:05Oh, they had it right in Paris.
2:36:07They had it right in Paris.
2:36:08It was impressive.
2:36:10They know so much of the science of it.
2:36:14People say, see, everybody stays in his embassy.
2:36:18That's the way it works.
2:36:20The chiefs say there's no way to handle it without staying in your embassy.
2:36:25And if my embassy stayed, where would we go?
2:36:27They'd move me.
2:36:29But they'd go to the main college and then have some of that.
2:36:32I'm pretty sure they have.
2:36:34They could.
2:36:35They would break it down.
2:36:39That's where I'm checking to it.
2:36:44I thought Henry had already talked to Mountain Dew earlier.
2:36:47Have we?
2:36:47We have not heard back from Watson.
2:36:50We suggest that he tentatively mention a meeting.
2:36:54Call Mountain Dew on the phone today and find out what he hears.
2:36:57I'd like to just know, don't tell Rogers about this segment.
2:37:03Except, are you sure it's all right?
2:37:06No.
2:37:06I think I'd sit on this one.
2:37:08Suppose he hears it.
2:37:09We've already talked to Mountain Dew.
2:37:13Well, no, we've told Watson to just do this on a...
2:37:16I see.
2:37:17Secure basis.
2:37:19Secure basis, and to do it in such a way that we make no commitment but to get his thinking as to whether or not he'd be receptive to such a meeting.
2:37:28I think he will be receptive.
2:37:30You took me to Paris.
2:37:31I've got to go there.
2:37:33You see, the purpose of reason is as positive as the head of state as I am.
2:37:39The others are not.
2:37:41So you go...
2:37:42They had a safe place.
2:37:48Also put Bulls and Koreans in here and the French back into the NATO complex.
2:37:54It tends to do that.
2:37:55Now, that'll be a source of some criticism, but it's also a source of some progress in the direction we've been moving.
2:38:06We need it.
2:38:06It seems to me the Latin is a perfect thing to give Rogers his head.
2:38:10Right, and badly needed.
2:38:12Yeah.
2:38:12It will be a plus all the way around, I think.
2:38:15We should start on that immediately.
2:38:18And, uh, is you interested in a piece of action in that?
2:38:21Uh-huh.
2:38:21Would you give Mitch some piece of the action in that?
2:38:24It isn't necessary.
2:38:25Mitch is getting a hell of a, a good enough play on what he's doing.
2:38:29It's, this would be Roger's action and not Mitch's.
2:38:33Mitch has got run-down around there now, and he knows, he will leave.
2:38:36He'll leave.
2:38:37I think he's leaving the fifth or sixth, you see what I mean?
2:38:41So by that time,
2:38:45I'm sure we can talk to people on the way about it.
2:38:48Actually, they all want to discuss what they think ought to be on the agenda, working on things like that.
2:39:02How was the UN vote?
2:39:06There's a little bit more optimism, sir, that we may get this all right.
2:39:13Oh, yes, he did.
2:39:18He did very well.
2:39:19He talked very strongly to the Greeks about the problem.
2:39:22I think we're going to get the Greeks.
2:39:24I think we're going to get the Turks.
2:39:28We sent a strong message.
2:39:30How about the Venezuelans, for example?
2:39:33These are the ones that we have to... Well, the Venezuelans, it's cold turkey meat.
2:39:38They come along and they get their oil from the country.
2:39:41That's what it is.
2:39:43I don't think they understand that.
2:39:45Well, they've got to understand it, because the same is true of, I mean, Jesus Christ, we ought to be able to be large in the end in some way, too.
2:39:53We've gone to them with a strong message yesterday.
2:39:56A lot of time today.
2:39:57Yes, sir.
2:39:58Gave them a...
2:39:59Moral message.
2:40:00A memoir and a moral message.
2:40:04I think we'll get them all right.
2:40:06I think the chances are a little better than they've been.
2:40:10And we're making a complete wrap-up
2:40:12tonight for tomorrow's meeting with the Secretary and George Bush.
2:40:20And we're also putting all the leverage points that we have on the stealth defense centers.
2:40:26You're gone, huh?
2:40:27What the hell's the matter with that?
2:40:35I called Ravine and
2:40:36and gave him a very strong... Well, I guess we're a base against either that or else.
2:40:40They can't expect us to mess the hell with them.
2:40:43Goddamn Jews are better than them, because we're their only friends in the world.
2:40:47What the hell's the matter with them?
2:40:50Why are they screwing around?
2:40:51Well, I think they're playing games with the ship.
2:40:55This is... Did they give us some plans of what to do with it?
2:40:58No, no, no, they didn't, sir, but I think that's the underlying factor that...
2:41:03You just put it the other way around.
2:41:04They do this where they aren't, but the others consider denying it.
2:41:08Well, I gave them a pretty starchy message yesterday.
2:41:11All right, sir.
2:41:19Get Roger to work on this thing.
2:41:21Yes, sir.
2:41:29It is hard to do all these things, but...
2:41:32Bill's contact, for example, on the security and security conference is typical of what Henry's concern is.
2:41:42God damn it, you gave me something that he wants to, he really wants to pander to this fellow rather than do it in front of you.
2:41:49He wants to try to get it all here.
2:41:52He wants to get it all here and not have anybody know what he's doing so that he can make sure nobody gets it.
2:42:02Well, let's give away the sort of order against it.
2:42:04We're all cross-caste with anybody in the European Security Council.
2:42:06A big, even the mayor, I know this from the legislative year's meeting, I was just shocked.
2:42:14He said it was a problem.
2:42:14This is a Soviet matter.
2:42:16It's hard to defy otherwise.
2:42:18It's something that there's a possibility we might have a European Security Council.
2:42:24I mean, the integration was right.
2:42:29And Bill Rhodes, that's the point.
2:42:33He knows about it.
2:42:34And see, he wants to get his record set so that they, all right.
2:42:41Well, I think on this thing, I think he could be let down on the Soviet thing, British 722 thing, which is the advanced thing.
2:42:49I guess I didn't call it in time.
2:42:54I don't want Henry to come in and raise the subject.
2:42:58It's not to be raised.
2:42:59I've decided he's not to go again.
2:43:01And I agree.
2:43:03I think I don't think he'd go at all.
2:43:05Because he could screw up some other things.
2:43:13It's so that to save any embarrassment on him is certainly a sin.
2:43:17You could well plan the difference between the two.
2:43:19You know what I mean?
2:43:20We have diplomatic relations with the others.
2:43:22We've never done it with any other country.
2:43:23The Secretary of State is always the right thing to do.
2:43:26Yes, well, we're going to discuss things at very great summits, yes we are, but that should be done at diplomatic channels.
2:43:33He knows very well, of course, he's smart enough to know that.
2:43:48If the Latin American won't do the diverting, that's fine, we'll let him handle it together.
2:43:53Well, it helps.
2:43:54It helps us a little bit, but he'll help us, he'll give us some publicity.
2:43:57The thing that would help, if it did seem to be worthwhile, that I think would divert him, is that he could do a sort of grand tour of Europe type thing, where he bonds all, bonds Geronimo and Snowden in looking like he's preparing the Allies.
2:44:15That sort of thing.
2:44:16As a follow-up, maybe he can't do it because they're all there at the NATO meeting and that's where he should do it.
2:44:21But he could go back... Oh, those foreign countries are there.
2:44:24Yeah.
2:44:24He could go back and meet with heads of state in the European countries, couldn't he?
2:44:27I mean, heads of government.
2:44:28Yeah.
2:44:28Where do I go here?
2:44:32I suppose I'd have to set mine in late January or something.
2:44:40Yeah.
2:44:40Here's the problem.
2:44:41The ideal time for me to do this as a state is in December or October.
2:44:44Well, all right.
2:44:46Why couldn't you do it with the other countries?
2:44:49Why couldn't you do it with the big four and then they'll follow up on the rest of you?
2:44:54Be there with you in this house where you're from.
2:45:14Well, he could go more than he could be in charge of that.
2:45:25The test is that, you know, with all his charm, he just isn't the right man in that job, is he?
2:45:32No, he really isn't, Bob.
2:45:34He's just a goddammit.
2:45:36He's just as hilarious as the right man in the fence.
2:45:38He's just got two people there that have great ability, he's armistice ability, both of them, in their way.
2:45:48He can't see the big things, can he?
2:45:50Do you think he ever sees the big things?
2:45:52He does.
2:45:53Once in a while, but he...
2:45:55Yes, he's...
2:45:56But above everything else, it's all he's doing.
2:45:57He sees it through Rodgers coming across.
2:45:59Yeah.
2:46:03You know, I was thinking that on all these big things, he's...
2:46:06He knows they're big.
2:46:07He knows they're...
2:46:08He wants us to succeed.
2:46:09You know, there's...
2:46:10He's a little bit different from Larry, in that respect.
2:46:13I'm sorry, I don't care.
2:46:13He'll do what he does.
2:46:15On the other hand, he's just...
2:46:18Painfully, just painfully, he goes, he goes like, God damn, it's terrible.
2:46:27Where'd we stop?
2:46:29We started about there.
2:46:33There's the flying bucket.
2:46:37Democrats are going to make Latin American-ish money.
2:46:42You know, people here don't give one shit.
2:46:43Your children, absolutely.
2:46:44We've been around this track a number of times.
2:46:46No Latin American had to stay here.
2:46:48Nobody gives one ticker damn a lot of Colombia, Venezuela, etc.
2:46:51We tried.
2:46:52You know, they didn't care about Mexico.
2:46:55Not much.
2:46:56Mexicans do a little.
2:46:58Pretty much.
2:46:58But you know what I mean.
2:46:59We don't need Mexicans.
2:47:02That's a good job.
2:47:03It's too bad.
2:47:04That's why if you do, if you do anything in Latin America, it would be a lot better just from our viewpoint, I think, to go down to South America than it would be to go to just to Mexico.
2:47:14I agree.
2:47:15Because you've been to Mexico and we've so overdone the Mexican president.
2:47:18Yeah.
2:47:19We're going to go down to Latin America.
2:47:30That's not bad.
2:47:32Anyway, I mean, I don't know that he won't get any world leaders.
2:47:35Yeah, world leaders.
2:47:36That's it.
2:47:37And sort of mobilizing that.
2:47:38Yes, sir.
2:47:43You have to do Canada, see who will have done that.
2:47:46God damn, Canada.
2:47:50You know, isn't it rather ironic that most people just get in touch with a hell of a bunch of demonstrators in Canada?
2:47:58The Canadians are considered to be like most of these Americans.
2:48:02They are pure.
2:48:03They can't protect them.
2:48:05They're not fun.
2:48:06They haven't been true as we have.
2:48:08Right?
2:48:08That's why this year, I don't think you want to get into any touring in Canada.
2:48:17Where is that meeting going to be held?
2:48:20Ottawa, I guess.
2:48:21Where do we go?
2:48:22I haven't said it yet.
2:48:25I'll set it after rush.
2:48:30You can't win on that.
2:48:32You just want to get it over with, right?
2:48:34If you give it after Russia, it'll be for the last time people will have it.
2:48:38That's why I said if you give it after China, perhaps it's good.
2:48:43Mix it in between China and Russia, it'll get lost, because you're meeting.
2:48:46And only the day I'm not going to spend the night.
2:48:50But you agree?
2:48:51Oh, we have to spend one night.
2:48:53You probably have to spend one night, because you have to have a dinner.
2:48:58You're meeting the next day.
2:49:02I would spend the next days, just go up, go up and arrive there in time to have the meetings during the day.
2:49:26No, no, just have a farewell meeting in the morning.
2:49:30Like we do here, you know, just a farewell meeting in the morning, 10 o'clock in the morning, 10 o'clock or something, then leave.
2:49:47Because of the attack on, that's what I mean, the attack.
2:49:52The armed forces, yeah.
2:49:55And Doug, you know, we don't have the Russians coming here to protect you.
2:50:00He will.
2:50:01He'll not have a problem.
2:50:03I don't think he will.
2:50:04We don't have Washington because we're going to leave.
2:50:07We have as well, I hope, in Los Angeles.
2:50:15Five, six, seven years ago.
2:50:17That's it.
2:50:19He's kind of become a non-threat now.
2:50:25We're actually here at the event, and I think that we did well, and this is a little crunching ring on him.
2:50:31Let him go over and just make a turn here before I arrive here.
2:50:38Henry doesn't have to handle everything, Bob.
2:50:39He really doesn't have to handle everything.
2:50:42That's the whole point.
2:50:44And it's a sure thing in security when I realize this.
2:50:46We won't borrow him.
2:50:49Let's handle it.
2:50:52All right.
2:50:59Right here, of course, is a frantic search for issues by our Democratic friends.
2:51:04That's what they're up to.
2:51:09We're hit right now.
2:51:12Of course, they're grasping at every stop.
2:51:15Anything that comes their way, like every effort to escalate, if it takes hold one to the right, if it doesn't, they'll try something else.
2:51:26If it's Latin America, it's their issue.
2:51:27We're in great shape.
2:51:28I don't have it.
2:51:32According to that last one, we went back to our two appointments, and that's where we ended up.
2:51:35After that, we go where?
2:51:39Basically, we caught him screwing with everybody.
2:51:45Then, what happens in terms of that?
2:51:50Nothing else.
2:51:50Nothing else.
2:51:51And our ability to handle it well.
2:51:56One was a little foolish, and schooled him up.
2:52:01on the right side of the issue.
2:52:02There's no way you could win.
2:52:05I know it when I find her children pointed out to a lot of kids that don't need a mouth-butt.
2:52:13I'm saying, where you don't have to get a free mouth-butt, they get it.
2:52:15They shouldn't.
2:52:16Nevertheless, press all rights, if needy children are given, have their mouth cut off.
2:52:22You know, you don't move all that cut off.
2:52:25Just anybody with a little part of their body gets a mouth-butt, otherwise you shouldn't have.
2:52:29You shouldn't have.
2:52:31Yeah, but then they argue that that's degrading to the poverty chart.
2:52:34We have to improve these properties so we can get free milk.
2:52:37Jesus Christ.
2:52:37It's awful.
2:52:44It's done and awful.
2:52:45They should, uh, be caving.
2:52:47Give them goddamn milk.
2:52:48We'll get such programs in the future.
2:52:53That's the main thing.
2:52:57It's not real.
2:53:34Or are you sick?
2:53:35Good night.
2:53:35Don't know.
2:53:40So, Cooper, did you get a judgment on that trip?
2:53:43Really?
2:53:43Did you find, like, the best?
2:53:45Yeah.
2:53:46Oh, that's good.
2:53:46We can do that in the church.
2:53:49I don't want to bother you.
2:53:50We'll see.
2:53:52Just call us.
2:53:52It's a small thing, but... Should we go again?
2:53:56Just say that I...
2:53:57I'll be here at the end of the hour.
2:54:05I told him that
2:54:33Connie has told Arthur that he's a good man.
2:54:35Arthur's taken that as being a Connie endorsement.
2:54:40Connie has told us that he is.
2:54:45He doesn't want to do it yet.
2:54:48The reason he's worried about it is the reason.
2:54:51He is a good man.
2:54:52There's nothing wrong with that.
2:54:54But he will be Arthur's man, and we won't be able to control him.
2:54:59And Arthur will.
2:55:01So Connolly said just hold up on it for a little while.
2:55:06And Arthur says we can't, the board can't act because we divide four to three.
2:55:11When we get the vacancy, we'll be in a three to three split.
2:55:14And Connolly says just sit tight.
2:55:17All right, let's sit tight.
2:55:24Good.
2:55:25Here's one place where Arthur is, you know, his head against Connolly.
2:55:29Yeah.
2:55:31will never keep up on that.
2:55:38I lost her.
2:55:41She's in good shape.
2:55:42She's going to get all but one vote on the committee.
2:55:47She'll lose Harris, who's the only one.
2:55:51And they're going to, they're hearty, I think they're hearty.
2:55:58But all the rest are with her.
2:56:00And the
2:56:02There is no indication of any problem with the Senate.
2:56:08It's a partisan message.
2:56:11Our friends in the Los Angeles Times always used to say we were culprits.
2:56:20Sure were.
2:56:20Of course, did he hurt anybody?
2:56:22He shows a weakness there, so we got out of time because they have a new service.
2:56:26AP comes every few different times, sir.
2:56:30You realize that?
2:56:30Sir?
2:56:31Well, there's been a lot of times where the service hasn't cared about it.
2:56:33One, one, two.

Nixon, Haldeman & Harlow on Agriculture Secretary appointment

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on October 20, 1971

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