Conversation 618-006

President Nixon met with outgoing Secretary of Agriculture Clifford Hardin and his designated successor, Earl Butz, to coordinate the transition and manage the associated media rollout. The participants discussed the timing of Hardin's resignation and the logistics for a forthcoming joint press conference to announce the change in leadership. Additionally, the group touched upon international matters, including U.S. relations with Turkey, and addressed administrative planning regarding the potential reorganization of the Department of Agriculture.

Clifford HardinEarl ButzCabinet transitionPress relationsDepartment of AgricultureGovernment reorganizationTurkey

On November 11, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Clifford M. Hardin, Martha L. (Wood) Hardin, Earl L. Butz, Mary E. (Powell) Butz, John D. Ehrlichman, John C. Whitaker, Lawrence M. Higby, White House photographer, Stephen B. Bull, and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:52 pm to 4:03 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 618-006 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 618-6

Date: November 11, 1971
Time: 3:52 pm - 4:03 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Clifford M. Hardin, Martha L. (Wood) Hardin, Earl L. Butz, Mary E.
(Powell) Butz, John D. Ehrlichman, John C. Whitaker and Lawrence M. Higby; the White House
photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

     Book

     Earl L. Butz's appointment

     Arrangements for photographs

     Forthcoming meeting with press
          -Agenda
               -Clifford Hardin
                     -Possible comments
               -Butz
               -Questions
                     -Handling
               -Butz
                     -Hardin’s endorsement

     Hardin's resignation
          -Letters
          -Timing
          -John A. Volpe
          -Clark MacGregor
          -Timing

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 3:52 pm.

     Forthcoming meeting with press

Bull left at an unknown time before 4:01 pm.
           -Arrangements
           -Press room
                 -Former use

     Hardin's resignation
          -Conversation with the President
                -Timing
                      -William P. Rogers

     Graham A. Martin

     Turkey
          -Prime Minister Nihat Erim

*****************************************************************

[Previous archivists categorized this section as unintelligible. It has been rereviewed and
released 04/01/2022.]
[Unintelligible]
[618-006-w001]
[Duration: 17s]

     Turkey
          -Prime Minister Nihat Erim

*****************************************************************

     Turkey
          -Stability
               -US [?] presence
               -US aid

     Henry A. Kissinger

     Unknown Ambassador

Ronald L. Ziegler entered at 4:01 pm.

     Upcoming press conference

     Butz's schedule
          -Department of Agriculture reorganization
                -Possible press conference
          -Charleston, West Virginia

     Government reorganization
         -Department of Agriculture
              -Soil conservation
              -Department of Economic Development
                 -Natural resources

The President et al., left at 4:03 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Well, how are you?
All right, good.
Well, nice to see you.
Good to see you.
It's a good job.
Now we stand over there.
Well, we, uh, we did have a lot to see, and I'm very, very glad to see you.
Your well-earned businesses are a sad day and a happy day, and I hope your buses make a lot of jobs in the world.
And after you do that, I'd like to wish you the best of luck, and I'll see you next time.
Thank you.
Would you hand that over to me?
Yes, Mr. President.
One of the hard ones, just to get in the heart and so on.
One, two, three.
One, two, three.
There we go.
That's one of those hard ones.
Very good, huh?
Thank you, sir.
Are we planning to ventilate the water and put it through, say anything?
Not as long as our intent to use, I'm afraid.
Would you like to?
Well, no, I mean, it's really a question that's serious.
Should I say, what are we going to do?
I'm just going to say something to introduce the Secretary in respect to the old, we bowed and walked out.
Yes, sir.
I didn't say nothing.
And Dr.
Bucks will say something very briefly, but he'll ask questions because it's common truth.
I think that would be great.
He would.
Yeah, I think that would be terrific.
I think that would be great.
because they ought to go to jail.
Well, I can hear you.
Are you going to head this department?
Well, that's a question, a natural question.
You don't have to take any questions.
Nobody's going to have any questions.
It's not going to be any, this is not, because he's got a constipated stomach, so I don't want to fight you.
But I didn't quit this.
Well, I'll say what I have to say.
You can play off what I have said, you know, and kind of briefly, and then,
They'll say, uh, well, they'll say, well, I didn't mean any, you know, that person needs to be, you know, that's three of the greatest years of our lives.
That's exactly that.
Something like that.
I can't say any better.
You strongly, George, recommend it.
Your success has been known for years.
You might say, that's nice.
You've got to thank me with that, George.
Yeah.
We were making sure that you have a very happy memory.
And all of a sudden, you get this song.
That's right.
That's not so good.
I don't know.
It's not bad.
A few years ago, I met that gentleman.
He was a full-time student.
But he moved on, and for that, he was part of the agriculture building out here.
So, good guess.
But it's all kind of worse.
Oh, boy.
Well, they make it very easy.
There you go.
Thank you.
My rocks are very clean, and yeah, they should be free, because they're not going to be used much.
But hey, I'll serve as a citizen for a long time.
I'll leave you at the mouth of that crow, so you can see my letter.
Yeah, here, both letters.
My letter will both be, uh, be released.
I've received that, right?
Yeah, I've seen it.
Yes, sir.
Well, then you will be probably already released.
I will go out today, and I will sign this.
Thank you, Mr. Dean.
It's been a very long time.
Well, we released both letters.
Uh, we haven't said a day for the foundation of something we can take out of it.
Well, I think it's really... Well, I mean, I mean, you'd like us to do it, wouldn't you?
Well, no, I mean, I have to go.
I have to go.
Yeah, but we can work to make it go, right?
Whatever you want.
Whatever, you know what my thing is.
You talk about it, we talk about it.
Whatever you do, you work out here.
We will certainly be our, you know what I mean?
We'll be, uh, we'll be, uh, that might be enough.
Oh, yes, you'll stand up, Joe.
Good, good.
Cliff, you pick your own day.
It's what fits you personally.
Actually, the usual thing is to say it's all my successors.
But that might be, as I said, to take care of everything in 60 minutes.
Yes, 40 minutes.
You hope not.
It could have come very fast.
You know, we signed up today.
We need to nominate the leaders of the world right now.
The board meeting is coming up next Friday.
We have one attendant.
And certainly, I think that would be fine.
Mike, if that's what you'd like to do, we can work it out.
It's fine.
Because if you work it out internally, I don't mind either.
I would plan that out.
It just happens.
This is working out fine.
I've been worried about Les being on this board.
Thanks, Lee.
He's awful right now.
I'm hearing his eyes.
I don't think this is an accessious relationship, for sure.
Mr. President, thank you.
All right.
We're ready.
We're going to stop turning this back right now.
People who are specifically asking me or the board, it's about to go right something now, sir.
We're going to go to the board on the note, sir.
Yeah.
I think what we will do, the two of you will stand for me, and the two of you will stand aside, you see, because the stage is quite small.
I think that's the best.
As a matter of fact, the way we will do you, we'll go in our...
I'll get the old man together.
I'll sort of walk in first.
And then the two ladies will follow and stand on the side and listen.
But they will not be on the platform.
They're very small things.
I'll be careful.
This is over the swimming pool last year, sir.
That's right.
Right at the high dive.
We already did change that.
for three months, four months.
I was in here about, we got back to San Jose about a fifth of September.
So I said, let's say three months, you had it, I think Dale Rodgers had given you the answer.
I said, well, I'll just say four months ago.
Okay, I'll still change it.
Yeah, that's fine.
I want to, I want to, you know, we've got a lot of stories, you know, and we've got to take them wherever we've got them.
We've got some very good talks with Greg Martin,
Oh, good.
Also, if you go to Turkey, yeah.
But I'm terribly impressed with Grant Martin.
He's a good behind-the-scenes worker.
He's a very intelligent fellow.
He has me behind that.
He's a tough man.
He's a rather strong man.
And see, there's this effort he's done to the FAO conference.
He's always at the FAO.
Very much impressed, Prime Minister.
I really appreciate it.
Yeah, everybody's alive now, right?
I think this would describe the old president as a knight.
I found that out of the gateways.
The editor-in-chief, he was still there.
He concurred some.
He ran out there and started serving.
I hadn't made an issue.
I heard you think it was a good idea.
Well, here's the thing.
The, uh, I think, I think we're going to have to take a look at the question.
I think we've got about, uh, six percent chance to win, um, possibly.
We're going to have to have continuing process there for regulatory support.
Uh, that's going to be, I don't want to see the downtime.
They gave us quite a hazing on the non-money.
Oh, gosh.
We have the, uh, you know, I handed it to Joe.
We had, uh, you could have, you know, you could have a party talk, I guess.
Yeah.
That was, that was, that was on here.
Yeah.
All right, let's say, yeah, if they, if they have any, we can simply say, I'll be, uh, if he goes by, then he has to, yeah.
Well, that's right, let's hear what he says.
Well, don't worry, we're going to give you a debate right now.
Well, you can be a little big on it if you want to hear what I'm going to say, you know what I mean?
If you want to write the same story, let me just, I think you better have it tomorrow.
I'll take your press conference tomorrow.
All right, I'm getting to go to Chelsea.
Go ahead and go.
Happy Monday.
All these three are from the same team.
We're going to have to start planning on that.
I think he would lose politically.
Isn't there a way to split?
I know they like to say it's one shot.
Isn't there a way to split?
That's why we put him back to resources.
So he wouldn't have to split.
No, he'd split.
Well, I'll take the name back.
It's the research unit that was to move over.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
.
.
.