Conversation: 643-013
Prev: 643-012 Next: 643-014Start Date: 3-Jan-1972 4:44 PM
End Date: 3-Jan-1972 6:00 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Mitchell, John N.; White House operator; Rogers, William P.; [Unknown person(s)]; Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Butterfield, Alexander P.;Recording Device: Oval Office
Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 01:47:44
Full Tape Conversation End Time: 03:09:50
NARA Description:
On January 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, John N. Mitchell, White House operator, William P. Rogers, unknown person(s), H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:44 pm to 6:00 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 643-013 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 643-13
Date: January 3, 1972
Time: 4:44 pm - 6:00 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with John N. Mitchell.
[The recording began at an unknown time while the conversation was in progress]
Yeoman Charles E. Radford
-Removal
-Relations with Jack N. Anderson
-Unknown chief petty officer
-Indebtedness
-Joint Chiefs of Staff [JCS] participation in White House infiltration
-John D. Ehrlichman’s forthcoming meeting with Mitchell
Anderson
-Possible litigation
-Timing
-1972 election
-Statute of limitations
-Possession and publication of documents
-JCS
-New York Times investigative reporting team
-Contact with Radford
-Source of story
Radford
-Reassignment
-Office closure
-Anderson
-Possible revelation of admirals’ activities
29
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
-Delivery of secret material to JCS
-Office
-Closure
Radford
-Options
-Melvin R. Laird
-Plan
-Ehrlichman
-Impunity
The President's need to sign documents
William D. Eberle
-Performance
-Trade negotiations
-Compared with Peter G. Peterson
-The President’s view
White House staff
-Performance
John B. Connally
-Relations with White House
-Daniel L. Schorr’s story about Azores trip
-Preston Smith
-Maury Cohen [sp?]
-Mitchell's conversation with Ehrlichman
-The President's and Mitchell's law firm [Nixon, Mudge, Rose, Guthrie, and
Alexander
-Unknown suit
[The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 4:44 pm and
5:15 pm.]
[Conversation No. 643-13A]
[See Conversation No. 18-13]
[End of telephone conversation]
30
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
Connally
-Smith
-[Forename unknown] Gallagher's [sp?] letter
-New York
-Relations with White House
-Nixon, Mudge, Rose, Guthrie, and Alexander
-The President's schedule
-California
[The President talked with William P. Rogers at unknown time between 4:44 pm and 5:15 pm.]
[See Conversation No. 18-14]
An unknown man entered and conferred with the President at an unknown time after 4:44 pm.
Manolo Sanchez
-Location
[End of conferral]
The unknown man left at an unknown time before 5:15 pm.
The President conferred with Mitchell at an unknown time.
Robert S. Ingersoll
-Possible ambassadorship
-Japan
[End of conferral]
[End of telephone conversation]
Appointments
-Ambassadorship to Japan
-Fredrick M. Eaton
-Rogers's views
-Age
-Appearance
-Conflict of interest
-Rogers C. B. Morton
-Morton
31
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
-Ingersoll
-Morton
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 19s ]
H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman entered at an unknown time after 4:44 pm.
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
**********************************************************************
Ronald W. Reagan
-Conflict with Elliot L. Richardson
-Mitchell as arbitrator
-Ehrlichman's advice
-Richardson's prerogatives
-Concessions
-The President's concession on Medicaid
-George P. Shultz
-John N. Ashbrook
-Reagan's possible response
-Welfare reform
-Reagan's planned press conference
-Concession
-1972 election
-Refusal to compromise
-Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO] legal service issue
-Compared with Nelson A. Rockefeller
New York
-Rockefeller
-Tax package
-Work with Mitchell
32
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
-Conservatives
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 2m 49s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
**********************************************************************
Raymond K. Price, Jr.
-Schedule
-[California]
-State of the Union message
-Drafts
Connally
-Administration's support
-Smith
-Investigators
-Los Angeles Times
-Cohen
-Attacks on Connally
-Reasons
-Ben F. Barnes
-Mood
-Golf in El Dorado
-Investigation
-Nixon, Mudge, Rose, Guthrie, and Alexander
-Suit
Trade negotiations with Japan
-Eberle's presence in California
-Kakuei Tanaka
-Maurice H. Stans
-Stans
33
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
-Henry A. Kissinger
-Past performance
-Eberle
-Stans
-Presence
-Dinner
-Stans
-Tanaka
-Kissinger’s view
-Stans compared to Eberle
-Tanaka
-David M. Kennedy
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 1m 33s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
**********************************************************************
Indiana
-John A. Schneider
-Position with administration
-Frederic V. Malek
-Background
-State treasurer
Deputy Secretary of Defense
-Schneider
-Necessity
-William P. Clements, Jr.
-Finances
-Compared with David Packard
-Robert C. Seamans, Jr.
-Conservatives
-Background
-National Aeronautics and Space Administration [NASA]
34
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
Appointments
-Conservatives
-Defense Department and Department of Health, Education, and Welfare
[HEW]
Defense Department
-Expenditures compared to authorizations
-Secretary
-Barry M. Goldwater
-Timing
-Impact
-John G. Tower
-Deputy Secretary
-Legislation to split job
-Goldwater
-George H. W. Bush
-Qualifications
-Loyalty
-United Nations [UN] position
-UN
-Possible political ambitions
-UN position
-Prestige
-Peter M. Flanigan
-Confirmation
-Relations with Congress
-Joseph D. Tydings
-Loyalty
-Legislative programs
-Peterson's job
-Possible downgrade
Commerce Department Secretary
-Peterson
-Helen D. Bentley
-Letter from Vice President Spiro T. Agnew to the President
-Mitchell
-Language
35
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
Martha (Beall) Mitchell
-Position on list of Top Ten Most Admired Women in World
-George H. Gallup
-Ethel (Skakel) Kennedy
-Shirley Chisholm
-Cover photograph for unknown newsmagazine
-Replacement by Angela Davis
-Martha Mitchell's reaction
Defense Department
-Deputy Secretary
-Flanigan
-Confirmation
-Laird
-Role
-Qualifications
-Relations with Kissinger
-Washington Special Action Group [WSAG] meetings
-Qualifications
-Confirmation
-Tydings issue
Eberle
Malek
-Job performance
Eberle
-Position
-Performance
-Peterson’s position
-Testimony
Flanigan
-Possible position with Defense Department
-Clark MacGregor
-Kissinger
36
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
-Previous relations
-State Department
-Kissinger
-Qualities
Kissinger
-Breakfast meeting with Mitchell, January 3, 1972
-Kissinger's relationship with Rogers and State Department
Gerard C. Smith
-Meeting with the President, January 3, 1972
-Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT] negotiations
-Vienna
-Rogers's presence
-Kissinger's view
-Rogers’s knowledge of negotiations
Kissinger
-Meeting with Mitchell
-India-Pakistan War
-Rogers's and Richard F. Pederson's actions
-Backgrounders
-Effects on foreign policy
-Democrats
-Relations with State Department
-Leaks
-Kissinger’s possible handling
-Middle East
-Back channels
-Soviet Union
-Forthcoming summit
-Rogers's dealings with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
-Kissinger’s talk with Haldeman in Key Biscayne
-Possible resignation
-Timing
-Moscow Summit
-Importance to Administration
-Rogers and Laird
-State Department
Alexander P. Butterfield entered at an unknown time after 4:44 pm.
37
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
The President's schedule
Butterfield left at an unknown time before 6:00 pm.
Kissinger
-Return from Azores
-Statement to press
-India-Pakistan relations
-State Department
-State Department
-Radford
-Anderson’s columns
-Reports from others
-Rogers
-Foreign policy
India-Pakistan War
-New York Times task force
-Kissinger
-Request for interview with Rogers
-Rogers's response
-Kissinger's cooperation
-Ehrlichman's reaction
-New York Times' report on Anderson and his sources
-Reasons
-Public interest
-The President's interview with Dan Rather, January 2, 1972
-New York Times task force
-Kissinger's cooperation
-Reasons
-State Department
-Leaks to Marvin L. Kalb, et al.
-Rogers's meeting with Haldeman, January 3, 1972
-Rogers's concerns
Kissinger
-Relations with State Department
-Self-defense
-The Administration’s foreign policy
-Middle East
38
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
-Soviet Union
-Dobrynin
-Forthcoming summit
-Talk with Mitchell
-The President’s interests
State Department
-Rogers’s conversations with Dobrynin
-Notification of Kissinger
-Compared with Kissinger’s conversations with Dobrynin
-Briefing the President
-Middle East
-Rogers’s conversation with Dobrynin
-Briefing the President
-Substance
-Kissinger’s view
Rogers
-Relations with the President
-Kissinger's view
-Conversation with Haldeman
-Meeting with the President and J. Edgar Hoover on plane
-Birthday cake
-Dinner with the President, Hoover and Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo
Kissinger
-Relations with the President
-Kissinger's conversation with Haldeman
-Meetings
-Tone
-India-Pakistan War
-Kissinger’s press conference comments
-Talks with the President
-Responsibilities for Rogers
-Consequences
-Kissinger
-Kissinger’s talking paper
-The President’s meeting with Indira Gandhi
-State Department
Kissinger
39
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
-Relations with the President
-Kissinger’s view
-Niceties
-Calls from the President and Nelson A. Rockefeller
-Relations with State Department and Rogers
-Kissinger's possible action
-Consequences
-Hawks’ departure
-Dove
-Leaks
Radford
-Kissinger's views
-State Department
-Meeting with Mitchell, January 3, 1972
-Possible firing of Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
State Department
-The President's forthcoming trip to Moscow
-Structuring of activities
-Kissinger's views
-Rogers's responsibilities
-Informing Rogers
-Middle East and Moscow
-Memoranda
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 13
[National Security]
[Duration: 4s ]
INTELLIGENCE
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 13
**********************************************************************
40
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
-Joseph J. Sisco
Rogers
-Relations with Kissinger and the President
-Candor
-Performance
-Leaking
-Loyalty
-Cambodia
-Kissinger's views
-Relations with the President
-Vietnam
-Bombing
-Possible talk with Mitchell and Haldeman
-Kissinger, the President
-Discussion of problems
-1972 election
-Personality conflicts
-Trip to Soviet Union for negotiations
-Kissinger
-Kissinger's view
-Publicity
-Kissinger
-Qualities
-Foreign affairs
-Knowledge
-Public relations
-Compared with Kissinger
-Balance and self-confidence
-Kissinger
India-Pakistan War
-Inevitability
-US policy
-Kissinger
-Soviets
-Lack of cooperation
-The President's meeting with Soviet Agricultural Minister [Vladimir
Matskevich]
-Gandhi
41
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
-Rogers's possible views
-Possible talk with Haldeman
-State Department
Kissinger and Rogers
-Contrast
-Concern for historical compared to immediate image
-Concern for “editorial page” compared to “front page” image
-Long compared to short view
-Rationality and self control
-Rogers
-Composure
-Conversation with John A. Scali
-Manners
Cabinet
-Kissinger's views
-Rogers
-Laird
-Responsibilities
Kissinger and Rogers
-India-Pakistan War
-Leaks
-Value
-Loyalty
-State Department
Kissinger
-Relations with the President
-Kissinger's view
-Trips to Florida, California
-Attendance at forthcoming Japanese dinner
-[Unknown person]
-Calls from the President
-Talks with Haldeman and Mitchell
-Rogers's retention in office
-Kissinger's views
-Possible resignation
-Timing
-1972 election
42
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
-Soviet Summit
-Possible announcement
-June 1972
-Middle East
-Kissinger's background
-Kissinger's view
-Talk with Mitchell
-Talk with the President
-1970 elections
-Kissinger’s meetings
-Promises
-India-Pakistan War
-Rogers
-Kissinger's responsibility
-The President’s view
-State Department
-The President's orders at WSAG meeting
-Kissinger’s view
-Relations with Rogers
-Cooperation with New York Times
-Reasons
-Justification of Kissinger’s role
-Kissinger's importance vis-a-vis the President's
-Relations with the President
-Announcements
-Troop withdrawals
-The President’s interview with Dan Rather, January 2, 1972
-Kissinger foreign policy suggestions
-Prisoners of war [POWs]
-Honesty
-Reaction to India-Pakistan War
-Press treatment
The President’s schedule
-San Clemente
-Possible instructions to Rogers and Kissinger
-Contact with press
-Anderson
-India-Pakistan War
43
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
New York Times
-The President's instructions
-Pentagon Papers
-Kissinger
-Kissinger
-Interviews
-Ronald L. Ziegler
-Haldeman
-Talks with Haldeman and Mitchell
-State Department
-India-Pakistan War
-Possible leaks
The President's trip to California
-Mitchell's schedule
-Talk with Rogers
-Haldeman's presence
Kissinger
-Possible talk
-Possible talk with the President
-Complaints regarding Rogers and State Department
-Possible talk with Mitchell
-Rockefeller
-Relations with Kissinger
The President's schedule
-Recent meeting with Rogers in Florida
-Rogers's interest
-Dinner with Rogers, Hoover and Rebozo
-Plane trip
-Meeting with Hoover, Rogers and Adele (Langston) Rogers
-Haldeman's meeting with Rogers
-Meetings with Rogers
-Kissinger's presence
-Meetings with foreign leaders
-African leaders
-Upper Volta
-Kissinger's presence
-Kissinger’s presence
-Georges J.R. Pompidou
44
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 643-13 (cont.)
-Willy Brandt
-Manner
-Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
-Kissinger's notes
-Trip to California
-Mitchell
-Talk with Kissinger
-Timing
-Talks with Kissinger and Rogers
-The President’s instructions
-Anderson
-Investigation
-Ehrlichman
Kissinger
-Relations with the President
-Hypothetical relations with Connally as President
-Kissinger's tenure in office
-Rogers's tenure in office
-Contrasted with other Cabinet members
-Cambodia and Laos
-Pentagon Papers
-Encouragement
The President's trip to California
Unknown matter
Mitchell and Haldeman left at 6:00 pm.