Conversation: 646-005
Prev: 646-004 Next: 646-006Start Date: 12-Jan-1972 4:34 PM
End Date: 12-Jan-1972 6:21 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Romney, George W.; Ehrlichman, John D.; Whitaker, John C.; Sanchez, Manolo; Bull, Stephen B.; Mitchell, John N.; Woods, Rose Mary; Haig, Alexander M., Jr.;Recording Device: Oval Office
Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 00:34:26
Full Tape Conversation End Time: 02:21:20
NARA Description:
On January 12, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, George W. Romney, John D. Ehrlichman, John C. Whitaker, Manolo Sanchez, Stephen B. Bull, John N. Mitchell, Rose Mary Woods, and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:34 pm to 6:21 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 646-005 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 646-5
Date: January 12, 1972
Time: 4:34 pm - 6:21 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with George W. Romney, John D. Ehrlichman and John C. Whitaker.
Greetings
Weather
-Golf
Romney’s experience
-State of the State messages
-Compared to State of the Union messages
State of the Union message
Cabinet meeting, January 20, 1972
-Scheduling for 1972
-State of the Union message
-Cabinet dinner
Maurice H. Stans
-Resignation from Commerce Department
-Finance Chairmanship for 1972 campaign
-Timing
-New duties
-Law regarding contributions
-Wayne L. Hays
-The President's signature
-Announcement
-Timing
12
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
The President's schedule
-Trip to Houston, January 24, 1972
-Speech
-Romney's speech, January 25, 1972
-Coordination with Romney's trip
-Florida
-Florida
-Preparation for trip to People's Republic of China [PRC]
-Speech
-Coordination with Romney's speech
-Support of sponsoring group
-Previous meeting with the President
-Romney's work
Housing
-Implementation of untested programs
-Congressional investigation
-Audit reports
-Possible release by Romney
-"236"
Refreshment
-Coffee
-The President's memory
Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 4:34 pm.
-Pepsi-Cola
-Coffee
Sanchez left at an unknown time before 5:23 pm.
National growth policy
-Synopsis
-Kiplinger Washington Letter style
-State of the Union message
-Rural and urban policies
-Federal action
-Problems
-Rural and urban decline
13
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Causes
-Fragmented federal programs
-State government apathy
-Balkanized local governments
-Unfocused private efforts
-Federal government initiatives
-Previous examples of initiatives
-Cumberland Road and National Road
-Canal system
-Homestead Act
-Land grant colleges
-Railroad grants
-Federal Housing Administration
-Interstate highway system
-Operation Breakthrough
-Industrialized housing
-Changes in building codes and zoning restrictions
-Unions
-State proposals
-Waivers
-Proposals from companies
-Number
-Factory construction
-Impact
-Call-out results
-Connecticut
-Interstate cooperation
-National housing market
-Compared to national automobile market
-Union contracts
-Wage rates
-Compared to craft rates
-Plumbers, carpenters, electricians
-Prefabricated housing
-Refocusing of housing industry
-Production methods over on-site methods
-James W. Rouse
-Columbia, Maryland
-Greater Baltimore development
-Greater Hartford project
-Consortium of private interests and local state governments
14
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Urban problems
-Suburbs, race, taxes
-Federal programs
-Columbia
-Achievements
-Vote for George C. Wallace
-Integration
-Operation TACLE
-Power of example
-Compared with Roger Bannister's breaking of four-minute mile
-Rockefeller Center in New York City
-Renewal of Fifth Avenue
-Pittsburgh
-Golden Triangle
-Milwaukee
-Request of Robert E. Merriam
-Advisory Commission on Intergovernmental Relations
[ACIR]
-New Haven
-New York State urban development program
-Coordination of state and local committees with private leadership
-Urban and rural areas
-Benefits
-Catalyst
-Hartford program
-Local decisions and initiatives
-Social, economic, physical requirements
-Competition
-Detroit
-Suburban outgrowth
-Fragmentation and autonomous government
-Chicago
-Rural areas
-Grouping around growth centers
-Living environment
-Consortia of state, local and private initiatives
-Matching money
-Property tax barrier
-Competition of consortia
-Presidential support
-Meetings of political leaders
15
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Proposals
-Forty semifinalists
-Matching funds
-Rural and urban
-Criteria
-Duration
-Pilot demonstrations of winners
-Matching funds
-Twenty finalists
-Funding
-Revenue-sharing
-Costs to federal government
-19 month period
-23 month period
-6 to 8 year period
-Twenty winning communities
-1975
-Advantages
-Federal appropriation
-Congressional approval
-Charts
-Outline of phases
-Costs
-Local compared to federal expenditure
-Budget outlays
-Flanking approach
-Compared with Operation Breakthrough and other programs
-Compared with Alexander's conquering of world
-Unions
-Building and zoning codes
-Congress
-Volunteerism
-Local perspective
-Presidential support
-Domestic Council departments' cooperation
-Compared with John B. Connally's economic program
-Forthcoming Domestic Council meeting
-Cabinet officers' support
-National growth subcommittee
-Rouse, Anthony Downs, William T. Coleman, Jr. and M. Carl Holman
-Leak
16
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Wall Street Journal
-Call from Henry L. Bellmon
Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:34 pm.
The President's schedule
-Raymond K. Price, Jr.
-Material for the President
-Executive Office Building [EOB] office
Bull left at an unknown time before 5:23 pm
National growth policy
-Operation TACLE
-Chamber of Commerce support
-Romney's conversations with Arch N. Booth and [Forename unknown]
Arbaugh [sp?]
-Credit for idea
-Urban housing abandonment
-Public housing projects
-Congressional mandate
-Deterioration and vandalism
-Make-up of families
-Central cities
-Race
-Crime and social problems
-Private funds sources
-St. Louis, Detroit
-Federal funds
-Causes
-Crime and drugs
-Congressional investigating committees
-Fragmentation of local government
-Duration of Romney’s efforts
-Solution
-Romney's previous calls
-John N. Mitchell
-Elliot L. Richardson
-James M. Beggs
-John A. Volpe
-James D. Hodgson
17
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Cooperation between Cabinet departments
-Test cities
-Option process
-Invitations to governors, local officials, private leadership
-Central city compared to metropolitan basis
-Possible losses
-Test cities
-Boston, Detroit, Philadelphia, Wilmington, Delaware and St. Louis
-Romney's previous conversations with governors of states
-Presentation before Cabinet, January 13, 1972
-Work by Department of Housing and Urban Development [HUD] staff
-Charts
-Charts
-Support of initiatives
-Romney's previous experience at American Motors Corporation [AMC]
-Rambler
-George W. Mason and Meade [sp?] Moore
-Compared with Walter E. (“Walt”) Disney's initiative
-Rouse's conversation with Disney
-Appointment of group to develop plan
-Richardson
-Volpe
-Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
The President's schedule
Elmer H. Bobst
-Age
-Beliefs
Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:34 pm.
The President's schedule
-Meeting with Mitchell
-Postponement
Bull left at an unknown time before 5:23 pm.
Bobst
-Age
-Career
18
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Hoffmann-LaRoche, Inc.
-Warner-Lambert
-Alfred E. Driscoll
-Memory
-The President’s family
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Privacy]
[Duration: 3s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
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-Memory
-Retention
-“Dodo” Momdouha (As-Sayyid) Bobst
-Career
-Success
-Board of Directors, Hoffmann-LaRoche, Inc.
-Bobst's decisions
-Objectives
-Compared with the President's decision-making
-Cabinet
-Domestic Council
-Office of Management and Budget [OMB]
The President's decision-making
-PRC trip
-State Department and William P. Rogers
Housing
-Mitchell
-National leadership committee
-Equal opportunity in jobs
-Alliance of businessmen
19
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Chicago
-Richard J. Daley
-Martin Luther King, Jr.
-Marches
-Leadership council
-Frederick G. Jaicks
-Inland steel
-Peter G. Peterson
-National leadership council
-Membership
-Business and others
-Purpose
-Local leadership
-James M. Roche
-Conversation with Romney
-Retirement
-Meeting with Black leadership
-Romney’s attendance
-Chairmanship
-Results
-Publicity
-James W. Cook
-Illinois Bell
-Chicago council head
-Daley
-Roche
-Work with Cook
-The President's possible instructions
-Proposal with recommendations
-Local leadership councils
-Purpose
-Acceptance of minority housing on voluntary basis
-Chicago example
-Legal barriers to discrimination
-Court action
-Private legal practice
-Washington, DC
-Compared with Miami Valley experience
-Low income housing
-Council of Government
-Counties
20
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Proportion of housing for each governmental unit
-Compared with busing issue
-Roche
-National leadership council
-1972 election
-Administration control
-Roche and Cook
-Organization
-Election year politics
-Democrats' reactions
-Civil rights activity
-National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
[NAACP]
-Ink Fund
-Roche's influence
-Sensitivity of issue
-The President’s talk with Romney
Mitchell
Whitaker left at 5:23 pm.
Executive reorganization
-Public interest associations
-Recent Cabinet meeting
-Department of Community Development
-Romney's conversations with Chet Holifield and Frank J. Horton
-Earl L. Butz announcement
-Chances for passage
Revenue-sharing
-Negotiations with Congress
-OMB
-Possible press reports
-Department of Housing and Urban Development [HUD] compared to OMB
-Memorandum
-Congressional leadership
-Public interest group
-Negotiations with OMB
-Possible meeting
-Compared with House Resolution [HR] 1
21
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Compared with busing
-Compared with deal with Wilbur D. Mills
-Mills's conversations with Arthur F. Burns and Shultz
-Presentation
Romney
-Previous discussions with the President
-Timing
-Steel strike settlement
-Economy
-Future plans
-Future discussion with the President
-Possible resignation
-Timing
-Views on political deficiencies in United States
-Future plans
-The President’s previous talks with Cabinet
-Performance in office
-Sensitive issues
-HUD bureaucracy
Cabinet
-Resignations
-Mitchell
-Maurice H. Stans
-Clifford M. Hardin
-Reasons
-Public's knowledge
-Farm prices
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Privacy]
[Duration: 4s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
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22
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Conversation with the President and Rogers
-1972 election
-Future employment
-Ralston-Purina
-Romney
-Situation
-The President's attitude
-Future discussion with the President
-Timing
-The President's forthcoming trips to the PRC and Soviet
Union
-US travel
-Discussions with other Cabinet members
-Support for the President
-Public service
Lenore L. Romney
-The President’s previous comments
-1970 election
George Romney
-Plans
-Assistance to the President
-Forthcoming meeting with the President
-Date
Romney left at 5:33 pm.
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 42s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
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23
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
Operation TACLE
-Consideration of program
-Housing
-National growth policy
-Costs
-Congress
-George Romney
-Lobbying efforts
-Ehrlichman’s view
Mitchell entered at 5:34 pm.
-Consideration of program
-Cabinet study group
-George Romney's views
-One city
-Opposition
-Costs
-Grants
-Model cities
-Competition
-Feasibility
-Pilot program
-Hartford example
-Boston
Ehrlichman left at 5:37 pm.
Mitchell's schedule
-W. Kenneth Riland
-Martha (Beall) Mitchell
-West Coast
State of the Union message
-Speechwriters
-The President's memorandum to H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
-Research
-Quality
-The President's efforts
24
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Value
Announcement of offers to North Vietnam, January 18, 1972
Troop withdrawal announcement, 1/13
-Scheduling
-Melvin R. Laird
-Rate
Announcement of offers to North Vietnam
-Henry A. Kissinger's negotiations
-Congress
-Rogers's knowledge
Rogers
-Previous conversation with Mitchell
-Mitchell's previous conversation with Kissinger
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 48s ]
The President left at an unknown time before 6:21 pm.
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
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The President entered at an unknown time after 5:37 pm.
[The President talked with Rose Mary Woods at an unknown time between 5:37 pm and 6:21
pm.]
[Conversation No. 646-5A]
25
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
Riland
-Meeting with Connally
-Meeting with the President
-Time
[End of telephone conversation]
Connally
-Health
-Meeting with Riland
-Mitchell
-Nelson A. Rockefeller
-Kissinger
-Warren E. Burger
-Golf
Rogers and Kissinger dispute
-Handling
-Fault
Kissinger
-Hypothetical dealings with Connally and Rockefeller as President
-Personality
-Dealings with the President
-The President’s temperament
Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 5:37 pm.
Refreshment [?]
Sanchez left at an unknown time before 6:21 pm.
Rogers
-Kissinger
-Dealings with the President
-Troop withdrawals, “Menu” series
-The President's decisions
-Kissinger
Kissinger
-Dealings with the President
26
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Compared with Rogers and other Cabinet officers
-Mitchell's previous conversations with Rockefeller
-Possible resignation
-Rockefeller's previous relations with Kissinger
-Relations with Rogers
-Handling
-Telephone conversations
-Compared with face-to-face meetings
Rogers
-The President's trip to PRC
-Information
-Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
-Kissinger
-Memoranda
-Meeting with Haig
-Kissinger's cancellation
-Defense of State Department bureaucracy
-Harm to administration
-John F. Dulles
-Dean Rusk
-Dean G. Acheson
-Rogers's loyalty
Kissinger
-Mitchell's previous conversation with Rogers
-Haldeman's report to the President
-Forthcoming conversation with Mitchell, January 14, 1972
-Relations with Rogers
-Relations with the President
-Meetings with the President
-The President's call to Rockefeller
-1972 election
-The President's defense of Kissinger to press
-Kissinger’s conversation with Mitchell
Israel
-Mitchell's view
-Compared with Kissinger's and Rogers's views
-The President’s view
-Basis
27
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Political pragmatism
-Kissinger's view
-Basis
-Personal background
-1970 election
-Soviet Union
-Kissinger’s view
-The President’s influence
-Rogers
-Possible conversation with Mitchell
-Haldeman's presence
-Arab nations
-1972 Election
-Votes
-Democratic Party
-Financing
-Media
-Joseph J. Sisco's negotiations
-Planes
-Delays
-Soviets
-Rogers
-Possible conversation with Mitchell
-Edmund S. Muskie
-Previous conversations with Mitchell
-Haldeman
-The President's trip to Soviet Union
-Phantom jets
-Suez Canal
-Arabs
-Moscow talks
-Jews
-Mitchell's and the President’s views
-Golda Meir
-Samuel Rothberg
Rothberg
-Humphrey's finance chairman
-Florida fund-raiser, January 1972
-Support of the President
-Fund-raising
28
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
Israel
-The President’s support
The President's trip to Soviet Union
-Arabs
Kissinger and Rogers
-Value to administration
-PRC and Soviet Union trips
-Informing Rogers
Rogers
-Social relations with the President
-Kissinger's views
-J. Edgar Hoover
-Dinner
-Haldeman
-Connally
-Plane trip
-Soviet Union trip
-PRC trip
-Briefing by Haig
[The President talked with Haig at an unknown time between 5:37 pm and 6:21 pm.]
[Conversation No. 646-5B]
-Forthcoming conversation with Haig
Leaks
-Marshall Green
-Rogers
Draft communiqué
-The President's negotiations
Haig's conversation with Rogers
-Informing Rogers
-Communiqué
-Kissinger
29
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Rogers and the President
Kissinger and Rogers
-Haig’s role
Haig's health
Laos
Kissinger
-Activities
-Briefing book [?]
-Press reports
-James B. Reston
-New York Times
-Editorials
-Kissinger's credibility
-Editorial
-Frank Getlein
[End of telephone conversation]
-Haig
-Reston and Getlein in Washington Star
-Kissinger's credibility
-Kissinger's reaction
-Conversation with Mitchell
-State Department leak
-Reston
-Anderson papers
-National Security Council [NSC] leak
-Kissinger's call to Rogers
-Source
-Credibility
-Paris negotiations
-State Department and Rogers
-Forthcoming conversation with Mitchell
-The President's schedule
-Speeches
-Decisions
-Previous meeting with Romney
30
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Historical record
-India-Pakistan
-Press
-Laos
-Kissinger
Mitchell's future
-Departure from office
-Timing
-Stans's departure
-PRC trip
-Haldeman's views
-Possible date
-Possible press coverage
-Stans’s departure
-Stans
-Conversation with Mitchell
-Timing of departure
-Soviet visitors
-Schedule
-Dinner with the President
-Announcement
-Departure
-PRC trip
-Public speculation
Richard G. Kleindienst
-Attorney General position
-Chances of confirmation
-Congress
-Press coverage
-Ehrlichman's views
-Investigation
-Hearings
-“Repression” issue
Congressional hearings
-Samuel J. Ervin, Jr. Committee
-Unnamed Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS] employee
-Anderson papers
-Wiretapping
31
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Kent State University
-Edward M. Kennedy
-James O. Eastland
-Kleindienst
-Politics
-Law Enforcement Assistance Administration [LEAA]
-Jerris Leonard
-Publicity
Kleindienst
-Relations with Justice Department
-Possible position as Acting Attorney General
-Confirmation
-Eastland
-Support of administration
-Peter G. Peterson selection
-Future relations with Mitchell
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 15
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[Duration: 3m 4s ]
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Hoover
-Opposition
-Humphrey
-Muskie
-George S. McGovern
-Campuses
-L. Patrick Gray
-Succession
-Deputy Attorney General
-Connecticut Circuit Court of Appeals
32
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Lowell P. Weicker, Jr.
-Qualifications
Kissinger
-Attacks by others
-Attacks
-Rogers
-State Department
-Persecution complex
-The President's support
Rogers
-Loyalty
-The President’s and Mitchell’s view
Kissinger
-Public exposure
-"Today Show"
-Marvin L. Kalb's show
-Walter L. Cronkite, Jr.’s show
-The President's PRC trip
-Recognition
-Hollywood starlets
-Georgetown parties
India-Pakistan War
-US efforts
-Opposition to Administration
-Kissinger
-Comments concerning Soviet Union
-State of the world message
-White paper
-Mitchell’s forthcoming talk with Kissinger
-US position
-United Nations [UN]
-Soviet Union
-Postwar efforts
-[India]
-[Soviet Union]
-[Pakistan]
-Kissinger's views
33
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 646-5 (cont.)
-Reston and Getlein articles
[David] Kenneth Rush
-Conversation with Mitchell
-Dealings with Laird
-Meeting with the President
-Kissinger
-NSC staff member [Col. Richard T. Kennedy]
-Washington Special Actions Group [WSAG]
-Laird
-Contact with the President
-Mitchell
Kissinger
-Talk with the President
-Rush
-Mitchell
-Kissinger
-Role in White House
-Clearance of all national foreign policy issues
-The President's contacts with Laird and Rogers
-Informing by the President
-Interference in State Department matters
-Haldeman
-Rogers
-Contacts with ambassadors
-Defense Department
-Joints Chiefs of Staff [JCS]
-Cables
-Speech by George H. W. Bush
Mitchell's schedule
-Riland
Mitchell left at 6:21 pm.
34
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)