Conversation 653-012

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Good to see you.

Well, you look like you're surviving the job okay.

Yeah, I'm beating them off.

Yeah, that's right.

Let's sit down over here where we can be comfortable.

Here you are.

Thank you, Mr. Harrison.

Here, John, sit down.

Thanks.

Here's a picture, sir.

Here you are.

All right, so I had the very first visit here.

I had the mayor.

I had the president.

And they've been talking to me.

And, oh, yes, sir.

And I said, I would, my position is, Mr. President, you know, this is a political arena.

You know my affection for you.

Just talk politics a minute.

I just was trying to have a little humor out there.

I'm trying to be a Republican real hard.

I never wrote a number that I had in my life.

Only once.

That was for Tate when he had it first.

And I want to see the Republican power in myself three times.

Thank them to let me run as a Republican.

You lost my thoughts.

Did you really?

Oh, absolutely, sir.

And if I was told that I couldn't win, at least she could not make it.

And as they say, Republicans are dumb as a bear, but they're all good.

But I have a, as you know, without Senators Muskie, Humphrey, their philosophy is completely, it's not my opinion.

I just don't know how to do it.

I'd like to come out and say I'm for President Nixon.

But it might take your job, right?

I think that there's another way to do it, and I intend to do that, sir, if I'm not out of order.

Well, I always appreciated our friendship, you know, which goes back to those times.

Also, the fact, basically, too, that you stand for the things that I believe in.

Actually, that's basically what I mean.

This is a question of a D or an R after your name.

I mean, these are the fellows on the other side that, because they cater to a certain element, don't stand for the same things in the field of...

law and order and justice and progress that we stand for.

That's what it is.

That's exactly it.

It doesn't mean that they say that we're a bunch of racists or anything.

This has nothing to do with it.

I mean, the point is that they can cast their law for better or for worse with the sort of extreme left and the American political scene.

And that isn't what I believe in.

That's what's not happening.

I don't think that's what you believe in.

In fact, I told that to our chairman, Camille.

He's a computer, Camille.

Does he succeed?

Yes, he succeeded.

Camille's philosophy and mine are the same, but he's more of a politician than I am.

He's right.

And I told him, I said, Senator, why don't you and I come out as the president?

Oh, he finished.

Oh, I said, I'm not too sure that, you know, because I'm one of the Republican areas that have never been won by a Democrat president.

I came out of Republican areas, for instance, South Guadalupe, the urban community of South Guadalupe, where it was strictly, the Italian community was going strictly Republican for years.

First, I came out of South Guadalupe, which is maybe 13, 12, 13 square miles, which is 50,000 yards.

I won Roxborough, which is all white, never went Democratic.

I don't know if you were getting that.

I can't remember this thing then.

Would you like a little coffee or anything?

Well, we've been drinking it all day.

It's good.

I'll be very happy tonight.

Sure, yeah.

Oh, that's true.

But I'd like a pretty good coffee.

This is the way I feel about it, and I'm just hoping to come up with the right way to do it.

If I can convince Camille, and I told her that I did, I had to go, look, powerful union leaders that supported me.

Yeah.

I got malignated clothing, quarter jeans.

I got hit like this.

Actually, it involved CIOs.

I tell them exactly how I feel because, you know, as a police chief, I tell them my pension is just about $19,000 a year today.

I thought that was my pension.

My wife and I, we could have lived on that for the rest of our lives, but I had my children growing up.

But I just wasn't about, and believe me, turning that city over to these liberals.

See, they're crooks.

They really are.

And I knew that I could beat them.

And they threw everything against me.

And Kennedy made commercials with Drain.

I gave him a shot the other day about his coffee product.

And I hope, I was hoping that he responded so I could really get into him.

But he didn't.

And the other thing with Mr. Miller is he's Polish.

Oh.

Say, it's a muskie.

I mean, muskie appeals to me, but this muskie that I've been facing for years, oh, he's worse than Humphrey, in my opinion.

He's surrounded by an 88 group that didn't want him to appear with any public picture.

You see, Muskie's moving to the left and hungry.

The door, he's trying to come in and say, Muskie is, uh, Muskie is, uh, is, uh, going on a tangent.

So you've got Muskie...

I was with Humphrey at Muskie when I was a police chief in one of the black areas.

One of them is in Columbia, which is the heart of Seattle.

Myself and maybe 30 security guys and some uniformed police, the only white man there.

And he got up and made a speech.

It frightened me.

And finally, I got to one of the Secret Service guys.

I said, well, you better get to him, and we're going to have a riot right here.

So he turned up.

Oh, he was blaming the whites for all the ills?

So they do.

Well, I just don't believe in me either, and this is a political decision I was talking about with Master Annenberg.

I was doing a Friday thing.

Were you?

No, sir.

He wanted to get over here.

Oh.

And he, I think he's on his way back to New York.

But he and I are together for two hours and we're trying to come up with how we're going to do this.

And so you know, Mr. President, this is interesting.

I've contacted war leaders of the areas where I came out the biggest majority.

And I haven't met them individually.

We've got a couple of wars.

We've got one war, the 39th war.

It's an Italian war here in America.

And I came out of there with 16,000 majority.

Another people over in Cerise, where I came out of the next largest 12,000 group.

So I talked to them.

They said, how do we do this?

And I'm going to tell you, they are ill. You know, not the Jews are ill.

They're fed up with permissiveness.

They're fed up with the liberal attitude, give everything to the blacks.

They had it.

This is what's happened in our city.

And the issue, Mr. President, is still war and order.

The economy and war and order, in my opinion, I think war and order more than economy.

This is my opinion.

This is how I want to get started in economy, going to a law firm.

I don't think you're going to take New York today.

That place is almost on terminal.

I mean, they asked me about him at a press conference.

I just laughed.

I said he couldn't run New York.

He wants to run a country.

And again, he would muster your company.

I said that might be true, but I have great respect for President Nixon.

I think it was a match.

And I'm doing all I can.

Mr. President, I'm doing all I can in my way.

The people in Florida know I'm the president.

Well, I just got to come up with the best way to do it, and I'm going to accomplish it.

Now, the war leaders have assured me that the best way to do it is election day, straight in public, and boom, boom, boom, down the line.

And we'll knock them right out of the box.

You can tell us what might happen, but I'm being dramatic here.

A guy like Muskie, President of the United States, forget it.

You see, he stood up in March and saw that election.

is not really the same as he is now acting.

I mean, based on what he's talking about.

I agree, absolutely.

He's got two photographs that I cut out of paper.

One was his, I think it was George's son's wedding.

That happy wedding.

I got that one.

they won't be able to locate it.

And then we had a lot of mornings with that black kid, the main, for the summer vacation, right before the last election, when he and they ran against you.

And I get a million and I'm made up, and we circulate that.

See, this is the tactics they use.

Well, maybe, tell me this, what about the black people?

Mr. President, you said that blacks were almost to catch you all.

What happened to you today?

They wanted to catch her.

They wanted any green.

They got blacks.

They knew a warlord or two.

Exactly right.

Let me tell you this, Mr. President.

In my opinion, you have the blacks like I have.

I didn't go into the black areas at all.

You can give them $100 bill each when they're going to that election vote for a day, just like the blacks.

Now, in my opinion, I didn't go into the black areas.

I never saw grace.

I just ignored it.

And I did not go in.

They were trying to get me into an area.

They had noticed through bricks, bottles, and that was in the right.

And they wanted to be able to polarize it.

So I went up on the line.

I was going to take my shot.

And I would not do it.

And I did not do it.

I ignored the spark.

Tell me, what happened to the Jewish areas?

I won the Jewish areas 4-1, Mr. President.

I wondered, I wondered, Julie, Gary, how did you do that?

I don't have any talk.

I talked about the poor little Jewish shopkeeper that was assassinated in this place of business working 18 hours a day.

Now the Jewish, of course, the Jewish, they tend to be, because they're hypocrites.

or not.

And I don't believe that.

They're eating the churn now.

They're not as liberal.

I wish you'd keep us informed on that.

We should get some of it.

You notice, I noticed that when Lindsey went down to Miami Beach,

some of his friends, the Jewish people from Forest Hills, had a big, had one of those airplanes, Skyriders, right?

Lindsay's changed across the sky.

So some of them, maybe they're getting a little worried.

I was surprised when we had about 36, 37 Jewish outfield keepers still in about 48.

All white and black.

Really?

Why did that get pulled out?

It assassinated.

That's what, that's what turned it.

Well, why did that happen?

We hear about that.

37 killed.

Guess what?

Now we have this old gentleman.

Give me your money.

Boom, boom.

We had a couple over.

We had a small one.

There's this man.

They went in and robbed him.

He killed one of all of them.

And they at least captured the other two.

But the Jewish community is no longer liberal.

I won the Jewish community 4-1.

I won every Puerto Rican division in the city.

That surprised me.

I won that 5-1.

I didn't lose one Puerto Rican division.

What happened is that the back of the Negroes were captured and turned to the other side.

That's exactly right.

What is the situation in the...

He said, Elliot, have you been able to get a good man to succeed you as chief?

Yes, sir.

I appointed him.

You have made a proposal?

Yes, sir.

But before I resigned, Mayor Tate had already wanted it.

No, I told him, I'll only resign on one condition.

Yeah.

That I appoint the next police chief.

If not, forget it.

So he said, okay, you should join.

I pulled out a young man, Joseph O'Neill, who was honest.

I want to see no man in Philadelphia.

Ask him, please let me run on a Republican ticket.

I demand it.

I even have court cases.

What do you mean with me?

Tony Kordachin, who was the business, the agent in charge of the... And Kordachin, me, and I sat down for two hours, and I never begged too much in my life, but I said, please, let me... Just maybe a month before I won as a Democrat.

See, I believe... What?

Well, you know, I've never understood the Republicans in our city.

No.

But me and the Americans, right, as my old man used to do, I think that Senator Scott, and I don't know this to be fact, but Scott had a lot of influence on me and Stanton.

This is what they told me.

And Scott used to play another game.

And Scott, you know, he gets into our city and he turns people off.

Because he plays the other side of it.

Right.

Well, let me say this, that what pleases me about the whole deal is that, as I emphasize, is that there can be political friendships, there can be personal friendships, there can be partisan friendships, but those that really mean most in government are those that are based on principle.

And the fact is that you and I believe in the same thing.

And that's why it doesn't make any difference whether we were personal enemies, or partisan enemies, or political enemies.

But we believe in the same things, and that's why we've got to stick together.

The good people in this country, the right people, have got to get together, or these clowns are going to take it over.

Right.

I wake up in the morning, and go to bed, and I think, what I should do with this election, the mom and you.

And I have people advise me that I'm close to, but I would like to say right now, I'm for President Nixon to take my political shot, you know.

I, I invite people, somebody to do more damage, they won't know where it's coming from, but we do it our way.

And I've talked to about maybe 35 award leaders, and some amazing Democrats, who their lives are now ready to do exactly what I said.

They just want another part of Muskie, Humphrey,

The best story that's happened in Philadelphia is Mary Tate, my predecessor, is now a Humphreys campaign manager.

Oh, that's a devastating fact.

They don't want to help out the Humphreys.

No, they don't hurt the Humphreys.

Oh, because Tate's popularity is down so far that if you walk the Humphreys, you won't get 18 votes out of Philadelphia because that was the opposite of a minor.

I don't want to buy 100,000 more votes, but they can't want to sign me with Tate because it's true.

Who do you think will win the Pennsylvania primary?

Muskie would win it.

I think Muskie, because he had a governor who was a real, real precept, an angel of the league.

He would surround himself and make judges in our city that could never be made federal judges.

Lois Boyer, she was with the community legal services, took her to the police department into a federal court and tried to place her as a mischief agent after a riot.

He has made a guy by the name of Julian King.

He's hired all his brothers-in-law, which have all weighed up.

Oh, I know, all right.

And what he did to me, come out about a week before.

Oh, he took a brutality test.

The state building governor Schaefer was going to a meeting.

And a bunch of mormons began to throw things.

And they began to use some obscenities.

And I was a police chief.

And we really laid it on them.

Sent a couple of them to the hospital.

And, uh, they had to fill him and dump his jacket on TV about a week before he went to go to the film and call him, said I was worse than Wallace.

Uh, but, uh, Mr. Shackle never made it again.

We'll be fine.

You know, I think the best thing that could be done here, and we can keep in those dreams, is that, is that, uh, you could tell all your folks up there that, uh, well, if you could, you, that,

look, we're going to stay loose, stay loose from all, and that we're interested, we're not interested in the man's party as we are in what he believes, and we've got to see what the Democratic candidate believes in before you can make up your mind.

And then...

And then you move at that time.

You see, that gives you plenty of time to breathe.

You've got to breathe.

But I say out of the fire, what do you think, John?

Yes, sir.

I think it won't cut you up.

I think it's going to be very important.

And you can just say, well, I'm the first man loose.

You can say, well, what about me?

Yes, I've met him.

He's been very cooperative, and I like him.

But on the other hand, this is basically not a partisan job.

We're not just here to run the city.

We want cooperation from the actual administration.

As far as this tactic is concerned, we're going to stay loose until, because it's a matter of principle,

Which ever candidate you think is best for Philadelphia, best for law and order in Texas, that you believe in, you'll support.

It depends.

Washington.

I was thinking, I might even want to go to the convention.

If I didn't show at that convention in Miami, that would be the end of them.

That's right.

If we could come anywhere near, if we could hold Philadelphia down to 100,000, if we lost it in 1968 by 300,000, if we could hold it to 100,000,

We carry the state flag.

Mr. President, I would say we'll take even and maybe win the lobby this time.

This is how the people we took with you, we get these war leaders to turn and deliver like I know they'll do, because they all have jobs.

You know, I hired a sort of power man, you know, that strong city government.

I have a power there.

I hired and fired, you know, civil service, you know,

Half of them don't come to work.

They can't get up until 1 o'clock.

And they go home at 3 and then 8.

I mean, it's kind of like a 12-man year.

And that's kind of a lot of stuff.

And I'm positive that they'll be able to do it.

The other thing is this, John, that you were a mayor of.

I mean, we, of course, Scott is the, I'm sure, and so forth.

I don't want him or the Republicans out there to get in the way of the mayor in any way.

Well, Scott's kind of sitting in here.

There's something that I want to talk to you about that I can't say.

What I want to do is to, we'll have a special communication talk between you and her.

And the problem to the city, you tell us what you want me to do.

Now, the thing is that we, Scott, he just got a,

You know, he'll take it faster.

But you see that in his, that Billy, not Billy Mann, he'll play the usual game.

How do you get along with him?

I mean, he's, I get along with him.

How do you get along better than him?

So that's right.

So he's sort of a real estate guy.

And I don't know Billy Mann.

I just think he makes bad political decisions.

But I'm positive that he's got good time.

I'm sure that Senator Scott pulled him off.

Maybe I should see.

Scott has always been really close to that guy.

He's always had that law that's for him.

I think that's it.

That's exactly what I said.

I've used the deal.

On the other hand, he was our great friend.

He'll help us in other ways.

We're not going to have a chance to screw up Philadelphia.

Let's give Philadelphia a chance to be governed well to the extent we can, John.

Well, we're making direct contacts in the other room here right now, even with the mayor's people, and that if you and I can just have a working arrangement so that we don't have to deal with this bureaucracy.

This is what I've been calling on on national TV.

I did it again the other day.

They're asking me how I'm going to step aside without a pledge of no taxes.

And I go overboard a little bit, Mr. President.

I say, well, I have a personal relationship with President Nixon.

Yes, sir.

No, I think we're going to get it.

That's right.

We're going to talk about it.

Paul Mills is going to get it back here.

Right.

But he's promised to take the revenue.

I think it's time to get it.

Right.

And they're going to get it.

Don't you think we're going to get it?

Yes, sir.

I called the mayor, and I thought we'd have it before the session was over in August.

But we can give some help in LEAA, give me some more policing, and we can be good to them.

You're going to see the transportation banks today, and you're going to see some other people.

After you get through with those meetings, if you want to give me a call, give me your impression, Jim.

I think I've had the transportation.

There's one in Indiana.

Yes, sir.

And they've got some projects going with your own contract, you see.

Yeah, but let's kick it.

You did.

Dave's a good kick in the rump, right?

He's a good man.

We've got a man who's talking here about his regional guys.

And his regional calls have never been near the White House before.

This will give them a taste of the fact that we want some special treatment.

And so we're trying to get this set up so that we can begin to get some of this money flowing to you.

President, well, you've been very kind, very nice, very kind.

I hope you come to Philadelphia so that I can first meet you there and greet you again.

Right, right.

You're always out there.

I'll be there from there.

I was most of it.

Most of it.

You know, Mr. President, I know how busy you are, but I know the press has followed you all the way from Philadelphia, and always they follow me to see if you're

I don't know if it would be possible, but it would be just real quick.

If they get one shot at the president and I together, I'd be very sure.

Let me hear it.

helping, you know, the cities.

You won't get killed this time, Mr. President.

I'm positive I can.

I am.

I think you're right, Mr. President.

That's exactly right.

And I'll be out there everywhere you go.

Every time you come, I can do it.

I would try, not too many of them, just a couple in the greater Northeast.

But my advice to you is to rest in a stand in a black area.

And I say, yes, it's useless.

Because they, you know, we've done a lot for the Washington.

But all you get is a kick in the butt, because the other side promises more.

And he gives them such an uncomfortable, you know, you're right.

It's just turning points.

This is the only one that I've never won in the one white area.

Now, it got on my mind, because it wouldn't be any, they hadn't painted us the big, the ex-police chief who might have had to go by a race.

And most of the business groups don't know him.

They don't know him.

But we write in this press service.

And they threw a grenade against me.

Ramsey Clark, he came to me three times.

He said, Rick, are you a governor?

And every time they were at me, I picked up votes.

Now if you saw Wallace at the end of the day, down in Florida, Lindsey took off on him and said that Wallace does very well.

They know what they're talking about.

They're Star Troopers.

Wallace came back and said, well, I don't know about Star Troopers.

He said, but I think, Mary Lindsey, you could sure use some troopers.

You could walk around the streets of Birmingham and nobody knocks you down.

But he says, I wouldn't want grassroots in New York.

Oh, then he's dead.

He just played so much to that permissive, ultra-liberal thing.

I mean, heck, it's just...

Disgraceful, isn't it?

Because he knows better.

He's a smart man.

He knows better.

But he sure hasn't worked.

You know, they're all trying to follow that, pick up that candid image.

It's just dead.

But the ground in this police department is terrible.

It's murky.

Oh, we had it here, you know.

I hate to be a marketer, but Edgar, who is an absolute badass, he doesn't look as viable as me.

And the last time I was with the director, he asked me, it was right back when, and he said, should I have a line where I said, there's no line where I have a line.

Nuts.

Well, let's call it interesting, and I'm going to say right now, without a guy like me even helping, all on the same ticket, they can't be humans at rest.

That's my opinion.

put them all together, and my dear folks, they can't beat you.

This is my opinion right now.

That's good to hear.

This is my opinion right now.

We're going to go over at the right time.

Where's Leon Sullivan?

Leon Sullivan.

Every president has spoken to Leon Sullivan when they came into town.

My advice, talk to Leon Sullivan.

Yeah.

He came out against me and called me everything again.

I want you to check with the mayor before you receive any.

uh, people in our House of Commons from Philadelphia, you clearly saw this.

If any of you, you personally, you probably have a problem.

I'll talk to Mr. Rodman every time I saw him.

Don't bother him.

I don't want to get, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh.

Sir, we ought to stay careful.

I know something about you.

And there's a political writer sitting on the back.

And I said, here's a reading for you.

And I'm going to stand right here.

And I'm going to pass the detailing to this building.

He's an R.C.

White political writer for the Pullman.

He's got Andrea Mitchell there as a political lady for the KYW radio.

And we have Channel 6, Jackie Huff.

She's reading The Girl on the Back.

There's Jackie right there.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

They just use a disguised budget.

But you might want to have this.

You might want to share it with God.

It's scary.

And it's nice to see you.

You probably don't throw it off the side.

It's not political.

Before August, before August.

Well, as a matter of fact, one of the matters to the mayor in our conversation, but we are very interested, of course, in the problems of the city's general editor, Mr. Collins, and one of our major subjects in discussion with Reverend Mayer, which now we think is on its way to the Congress.

The hearings are already beginning.

But prior to that time, because that would have come at very, perhaps the worst that had to be shown in this session of the Congress, they were hoping that we would get a support of Chairman Merrill so that it would be possible for them to make comments about their name.

The name is not important.

There are several other areas that we've discussed.

The view of transportation, the view of LEAA, where there are ongoing

federal programs are in being, federal programs are in being, where we, where we currently have our council discuss with the mayor how the federal government can cooperate with the city of Philadelphia in meeting some of its problems.

And so the meeting is being held here with the mayors to establish a contract, as we do with

We try to with the mayors of major cities, you know, so that in each of these federal programs, where there is federal funds available for a city program, that Philadelphia will get their share.

And I think that's been a fair statement.

I don't know if you said it to me yesterday.

Mr. John, is there anything else you'd like to say?

No, sir.

That covers it pretty well.

It's a matter of meeting the new folks and establishing the lines of contact.

I directed that Mr. Earl, who was the head of the Council, personally supervise the...

these various applications to those cities in Philadelphia and have them on the seats and see that they get prompt attention.

I give this to the President and give him my advice and I hope so that he survives.

Thank you.

Mr. President, thank you to the President, Mr. Adam, and the Democrats out there.

Well, we can discuss politics.

We have an interesting conversation about politics.

Our primary purpose, of course, is in relation to federal government in major cities.

Of course, I come from California, a place where there's no reason all of our city officials are allowed to take on official elections on a non-partisan basis.

So whenever I see the mayor of a city, I just think that it's a non-partisan.

Is that fair enough in this way?

You're out of trouble.

We don't take shoes.

The problem comes in here.

It's the problem of Philadelphia, not the problem of the Democratic mayor and the problem of his administration.

I've already told them that many times as the president.

We have a whole relationship.

That's right.

We're very proud.

We're very happy.

Thank you.

Well, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.