Conversation No. 656-10

Date: January 26, 1972
Time: 10:08 am - 12:02 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and Henry A. Kissinger.

     Congressional resolution
         -Preparation of a letter
               -Kissinger’s talk with Hugh Scott and Gerald R. Ford
                     -Scott’s and Ford’s view
               -The President’s talk with Ford
               -Scott
               -Benefits
               -Kissinger’s schedule
               -Ford’s and Scott’s location
                     -Ronald L. Ziegler
               -Scott

     Kissinger briefing

     Proposed terms of cease-fire
          -Kissinger’s briefing
                -Political benefits
                      -George S. McGovern’s comments concerning the President’s statement
                            about Nguyen Van Thieu and North Vietnam
                -Possible revelation of North Vietnamese position
                      -Thieu overthrow
                      -Troop withdrawal
                      -Documentation
                      -As consequence of denial

Kissinger left at 10:11 am.

[The President talked with Paul J. Fannin between 10:11 am and 10:12 am.]

[Conversation No. 656-10A]

[See Conversation No. 19-93]
                                             7

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                       Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


[End of telephone conversation]

     The President’s Vietnam peace proposal speech, January 25, 1972
          -News coverage
               -Inaccuracy of reporting
                     -Administration handling
                            -Assigning responsibility
          -The President’s schedule
               -Recent Congressional leaders meeting
               -Kissinger
          -Kissinger briefing to staff, January 25, 1972
               -Tone
               -Secret diplomacy
               -First draft of speech
               -Robert H. Finch’s reaction
               -Politics
               -John A. Scali
               -State and Defense Department
          -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
               -Congressional leaders meeting
               -Staff meeting
               -Thieu resignation
                     -Timing of announcement
                            -Peace proposal
                            -Public relations
                            -Kissinger

[The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 10:12 am and
10:17 am and requested a call to William P. Rogers.]

[Conversation No. 656-10B]

[See Conversation No. 19-94]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Budget meeting
         -Agnew
              -Complaints
              -Political future
              -Demeanor
                                                8

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 10/06)
                                                                    Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


                      -Compared to John B. Connally
                          -Approach to problems

[The President talked with Rogers between 10:17 am and 10:18 am.]

[Conversation No. 656-10C]

[See Conversation No. 19-181]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Agnew
         -Demeanor

     White House staff
          -Charles W. Colson
                -Scali
          -William L. Safire
          -Scali
          -Kissinger’s call to Scali, Rogers, Connally
          -The President’s schedule
                -Congressional leaders meeting
                      -Agnew
                            -Demeanor
                            -Consultation
                            -Staff meeting
          -Kissinger
                -Handling
                -Loyalty of White House staff
                -Meeting with Haldeman
                -Winston Lord
                -Demeanor concerning Vietnam
                      -Troop withdrawal
                      -Negotiations
                            -Status
                            -Trips
                                  -Kissinger’s comments
                                       -Progress of talks
                            -Rogers
                            -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                            -Ellsworth F. Bunker
                                            9

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. 10/06)
                                                           Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


                      -Creation of record
                -Positive outlook
                      -Press conference
           -Press conference
                -Ziegler
                -Necessity

The President’s Vietnam peace proposal speech
     -News coverage
           -Marvin L. Kalb
                  -Kissinger briefing
                        -Scali
     -First draft
           -Kissinger’s reaction
           -Edits
                  -Safire
     -Kalb
           -Scali
     -Dan Rather
           -Possible letters
                  -Demand for apology
           -Vietnam troop withdrawal
                  -Timing
                        -1972 election
                              -Kalb
                              -[Arnold] Eric Sevareid
     -Public perception
           -Prisoners of war [POWs]
           -Troops
           -Ceasefire
                  -Korea
     -Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey, Jr.
           -F. Bradford Morse
                  -Letter
                        -Colson
           -Withdrawal from race
                  -Conditions
     -Effect on credibility of Administration
     -McCloskey’s comment
           -Secret negotiations
                  -Administration action
                                       10

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. 10/06)
                                                        Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


    -Right wing’s reaction
         -Speech ending
    -Effect on attention to budget message
    -Thrust of PR
         -“Keep America United” theme
               -Congressional leaders meeting
               -Negotiations
         -Clark MacGregor
    -Delivery
         -Lack of Vietnam speeches
         -Complexity of subject
         -Clarity
               -Process
         -Style
               -Atmosphere
                      -Eye contact with camera
    -Campaign benefit

The President’s schedule
     -Signing of economic report
           -Press interest
     -Need for study
     -Forthcoming meeting with Richard M. Scammon
     -Congressional leaders meeting
     -Press picture
     -Maurice H. Stans’ announcement
           -Peter G. Peterson
     -Camp David
     -Economic report signing
           -Press interest
           -Photographs
     -Quadriad meeting
           -Timing
                 -Connally
     -Economic report
     -Stans
           -Dinner
     -Peterson
           -Press interest
                 -Swearing-in
     -Earl L. Butz
                                                11

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                         Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


          -Rogers C. B. Morton
          -Camp David
          -Friday schedule
                -Dr. Rainer Barzel
                -Dewitt Wallace dinner
          -Weekend plans
          -PR
                -Preparation for People’s Republic of China [PRC] trip
                      -Briefing books
                      -Rogers and Kissinger

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:18 am.

          -Kissinger’s schedule
               -Press briefing

Bull left at an unknown time before 10:42 am.

          -PRC trip
              -PR
                    -Camp David
                         -Preparations
                         -Return to Washington, DC
          -McGovern and McCloskey
              -Administration counterattack
                    -Congressional leaders
                    -Vietnam critics
          -Media support

Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:18 am.

          -Kissinger
               -Briefing

Bull left at an unknown time before 10:42 am.

          -Television messages and domestic affairs
               -John D. Ehrlichman
               -Environment
               -Drugs
               -Benefits
                                             12

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                     Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


           -J. William Middendorf, II
                -The President’s meeting with Prime Minister of Netherlands [Barend W.
                      Biesheuvel]
                      -Review
                -Kissinger
                -Rogers
                -Attendance at meeting of the President and Biesheuvel
                      -Haig
                      -State Department
                      -Rogers

[The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 10:18 am and
10:42 am and requested Haig.]

[Conversation No. 656-10D]

[See Conversation No. 19-95]

[End of telephone conversation]

[The President talked with Haig between 10:42 and 10:43 am.]

[Conversation No. 656-10E]

[See Conversation No. 19-96]

[End of telephone conversation]

     The President’s schedule
          -Middendorf

Kissinger entered at 10:44 am.

     Kissinger schedule

     Vietnam
          -North Vietnamese terms
               -McGovern
               -Thieu government
                    -Overthrow
                    -Secret deal
                                   13

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                           Tape Subject Log
                             (rev. 10/06)
                                                           Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


           -Thieu
           -Publication of terms
     -Kissinger press conference
           -Review of peace process
                -Timetable
                -Withdrawal
                -Government
                -Ceasefire
                -Eight point plan
           -US proposal
                -Terms
                      -Unilateral withdrawal
     -Surrender
           -Deadline
     -Return of POWs
     -Overthrow of government
           -South Vietnamese people
           -US reaction
-Agnew
     -Attitude
     -The President’s Vietnam peace proposal speech
           -Separation of military and political issues
                -Clarity
     -Demeanor
           -Support for the President
                -Kissinger’s comment to Bryce N. Harlow
           -Congressional meeting
                -Budget meeting
                -Possible approach to the President or Kissinger
                -Effects
                      -Patrick J. Buchanan
                -Troop withdrawal for ceasefire and POWs or political issues
           -January 25, 1972 meeting
                -Agnew stance
                      -Ceasefire
                             -Effects
-North Vietnamese ceasefire terms
     -Troop withdrawal
     -Administration offer
           -Troop withdrawal for POWs
           -May 31, 1971 negotiations
                                              14

                              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 10/06)
                                                                      Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


                            -Political proposal
                -Indication of weakness
                      -Laos and Cambodia
                      -South Vietnam
                      -Bombing
           -US aid to Thieu
                -North Vietnamese thinking
                -Michael J. Mansfield Amendment
                      -POWs
           -Administration defense
                -Kissinger
                -Rogers
                -Agnew
                      -Analogy to the President vis-à-vis Dwight D. Eisenhower
                -Football analogy
           -Support for US proposals
                -Agnew
                      -Compared to Congress
                -Congress
                      -Scott and Ford
                            -Meeting with Kissinger in Ziegler’s office
                -Press conference
                      -Ziegler
                      -Preparation by Kissinger
                -Kalb
                      -Possible interview with Kissinger

     The President’s forthcoming trip to the PRC

     Press conference
           -Ziegler

Kissinger left at 10:57 am.

                 -Timing
                      -Ziegler

     Public support for peace proposals
          -Mail
                -Quotes from Winston-Salem; Maryland; New York; Birmingham;
                      Philadelphia; Connecticut; Searsdale; Texas; Amherst; Columbia, South
                                                15

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                      Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


                     Carolina; Arlington, Texas; Wichita; La Grange Park, Illinois
                     -Frank L. Rizzo
                     -William A. Rago [?]
                     -Maureen Mullen [?] of Brooklyn
                     -Religious and minority groups
                     -Judge William Garbose of Massachusetts
                     -Mrs. Joseph Patrick Kennedy of Winnipeg
                     -Generation of peace, Adelphi [?], Illinois

Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:57 am.

     Biesheuvel meeting
          -Schedule
          -Protocol
               -Baron Rijnhard B. Van Lynden

Bull left at an unknown time before 11:02 am.

     PRC trip
         -Emil (“Bus”) Mosbacher, Jr.
         -Herbert G. Klein
              -Domestic matters
                    -Domestic Council
         -The President’s forthcoming trip to the Soviet Union

Haldeman left at 11:02 am.

Biesheuvel, Middendorf, and Haig entered at 11:02 am; the White House photographer was
present at the beginning of the meeting.

     Introductions
           -Seating arrangements
           -Photographs

     Biesheuvel’s schedule
          -Antilles and Surinam

     [Photograph session]

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 11:02 am.
                                                16

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                          Tape Subject Log
                                            (rev. 10/06)
                                                                       Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


     Refreshments

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 11:20 am.

     Travel
          -Indonesia
          -India
          -Indonesia
                -The President’s visits

     Colonial legacy
          -Jakarta, Indonesia
          -Education
          -The president’s conversation with Lt. Gen. T.N.J. Suharto
          -Antilles
          -Retention of influence
          -African and Caribbean nations
          -Nassau, Bahamas
                -Soviet Union
                -British withdrawal
                -Tourism
                -Transition pace
          -Indonesia
                -Relations with the Netherlands
                      -Brink of war in early 1960’s
                      -West Iran (West New Guinea)
                -Suharto
                -Inflation
                      -Progress
                -Possible visit by Biesheuvel
                      -Dutch professionals
                      -Suharto
                            -Sukarno
                      -Indonesian revolution
                      -State visit by Queen Juliana, 1971
                            -Students
                      -Suharto
          -US position in Pacific area
                -Edward R. G. Heath
                      -Singapore
                -Georges J.R. Pompidou
                                      17

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. 10/06)
                                                              Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


         -West Germany
               -Relations with Japan
    -The Netherlands’ role in world
         -European community
         -Inter-government committee
               -Financial aid to Indonesia
    -Japan’s role in world
    -Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia
    -Indonesia
         -Population
         -Geography
         -Natural resources
         -Java
               -Population
                     -Jakarta
    -Indonesia
    The Netherlands relations with the Pacific area
    -Surinam and Antilles
         -Role
               -Kingdom of the Netherlands
         -Foreign policy and defense
    -United Nations [UN]
         -Small nations
    -Antilles
         -Geography
         -English-speakers
         -Venezuela
               -Aruba
                     -Oil
         -Defense
    -Autonomy
         -Preparation for independence
         -African nations
    -The President’s previous trip around the world in 1953
         -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
    -The president’s meeting with Winston Churchill in 1958
         -Autonomy
         -Great Britain’s experience

Common market
   -National sovereignty
                                      18

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. 10/06)
                                                             Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


    -Great Britain
    -France
    -Economics
          -International trade
    -Political cooperation
    -Use of economic power
          -Effects
                -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]

Power centers
    -Brazil
    -Africa
    -Asia
          -Indonesia
    -US
    -Europe
    -Soviet Union
    -People’s Republic of China [PRC]
    -Japan
    -Coexistence with PRC, Soviet Union
          -Philosophical differences
    -Europe, Japan, US
          -Productivity
                -Compared to Communists
    -Monetary system, trade
    -Security
    -Japan
          -Economic power
          -Military
                -World War II
          -Reassurances by US, Europe
                -Treaty commitment
                -Nuclear deterrent
                -PRC, Soviet Union

Europe
     -NATO
         -West Germany
         -Forces
              -Unilateral reduction
                   -Soviet Union and Warsaw pact
                                            19

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 10/06)
                                                              Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


          -Sense of belonging
               -West Germany
                     -Soviet Union
                          -East Germany
                     -Willy Brandt
                     -Kurt Kiesinger
                     -Great Britain
                     -Ostpolitik
          -Unity
          -Konrad Adenauer
          -Alcide de Gasperi
          -Robert Schumann
          -Biesheuvel’s experience
          -The Netherlands’ role
               -World affairs

     Common Market
        -Statement
        -US role
              -Protectionism
        -Economic prospects
        -Britain
              -Heath
        -Pompidou
        -Compared to previous one
              -Rotterdam
                    -Perception of market
                    -Wars
                         -Manufacturing

     Attendance of ambassador
          -Protocol

     Rotterdam
          -Exports
               -Compared to New York
               -Common Market
                   -Trade
                        -West Germany

Van Lynden entered at 11:25 am.
                                        20

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                                 Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)



Greetings

World affairs
    -US protectionist sentiment
           -US intentions
                 -Outward look
           -Reaction to possible European protectionism
                 -Japan
           -Europe, US, Canada, Japan cooperation
                 -Security
                 -Competition
    -Monetary matters
           -Group of Ten
    -Japan
           -The President’s talks with Heath, Brandt, Pompidou [?]
           -Group of Ten
           -Beliefs
                 -Compared to western world
                        -Economic self-interest
           -Political cooperation
                 -World War II
                 -[Emperor of Japan[ Hirohito
                        -Visit
           -Contributions
           -PRC
           -Soviet Union
           -Productivity
                 -World War II
           -Tanker purchase by Dutch
                 -Oil companies
                        -Dutch-Shell
    -US economic power
    -The President’s trip preparation for trips to PRC and Soviet Union
           -Meetings with European leaders
                 -Italy
    -Italy
           -Government
                 -Emilio Colombo
                 -French constitutionalism
    -Latin countries
                                        21

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                                Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


         -Italy, France, Spain
         -French Constitution
         -Fragmentation
         -France
               -Gen. Charles A.J.M. de Gaulle
                     -Political unity
               -Communist Party
         -De Gasperi
     -Meeting with Biesheuvel
         -Benefits
         -NATO
               -Netherlands as an ally
                     -Public opinion
               -Joseph M.A.H. Luns
                     -Manlio Brosio

The President’s forthcoming trips to the PRC and Soviet Union
     -Difference between trips
     -Enmities
           -US position vis-à-vis PRC and Soviet Union
           -Soviet Union relations with PRC
           -PRC
                 -Japan
                      -US, Soviet Union

PRC trip
    -US intentions
         -Contact
               -Prospects of recognition
                    -Taiwan, Republic of China
                          -US treaty commitments
               -Benefits
                    -Communication
                    -Reduction of chance of confrontation
                          -Korea
                          -Vietnam
                          -PRC nuclear power
         -PRC power
               -Population
         -Japan
         -US pacific responsibilities
                                           22

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                   Tape Subject Log
                                     (rev. 10/06)
                                                             Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


              -Gulf in philosophies between US and PRC
                   -Need to bridge gap
                         -Nuclear weapons
              -Nuclear weapons in PRC


**************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[National Security]
[Duration: 32s ]


    PRC


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

**************************************************************************


                   -Prospects
              -Soviet reaction to PRC trip
                   -Paranoia
                   -Bilateralism
              -PRC’s relationships
                   -Isolationism
                   -Soviet Union
                         -Hostile border
                   -US
                         -Korea
                         -Vietnam
                   -Japan
                   -India
                   -Rivalry with US, Soviet Union

    Defense spending
         -Biesheuvel’s conversation with William P. Rogers
         -Effect on Europe
         -The Netherlands
              -Increase in 1972
                                                23

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


          -NATO
          -Michael J. Mansfield amendment
          -Alternative uses
                -Ghettoes

     Soviet Union trip
          -Substantive nature
          -US relations with Soviet Union
               -Relations
               -Difference
               -Trade
               -Middle East
               -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
          -Europe
               -Mutual and Balanced Force Reductions [MBFR]
               -Arms limitation
                      -SALT
                             -Briefing of NATO countries
                             -US commitment to NATO
                             -Scope
          -Familiarity
               -Problems and benefits
               -Pragmatism
               -The President’s background
          -European discussions
          -European security conference
               -Rogers
               -Timing
               -Bilateral discussions
               -Benefits
               -Views
                      -Italy

Bull entered at an unknown time after 11:25 am.

     Rogers’s arrival

Bull left at an unknown time before 12:02 pm.

                     -Nicolae Ceausescu
                -Soviet intentions
                             24

          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                     Tape Subject Log
                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                     Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-US view
     -Need for security
            -Germany
            -NATO
            -Defense budgets
-Soviet aims
     -Germany
     -Loosening of Europe’s ties with US
-MBFR
     -Timing
     -Linkage to European Security Conference
            -US caution
     -Agreement among allies
            -Brosio
     -Danger of linkage to European Security Conference
-Cultural component
-Agenda
     -Andrei A. Gromyko
-Likelihood
-Eastern Europeans
     -The President’s previous travles
            -Poles, Romanians, Hungarians, Czechoslovakians
-Agenda
-Possible benefits
     -Communication, trade, security
-Germany
     -Italy
     -Brandt
            -Ostpolitik
-Rogers
-Gromyko
-MBFR
     -Rogers
     -Gromyko
     -Search for formula
            -Dutch domestic situation
                 -Multilateralism
            -NATO
-Need for caution
-Timing
                                        25

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                                 Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


Forthcoming European meeting on monetary matters
     -Timing
          -Possible location
               -The Hague
                      -World Court
          -Europe’s relationship with Communist nations, Japan
          -Possible locations
               -Rivalries
               -London, Paris, Bonn, Rome
               -Brussels, Luxembourg, Strasbourg
               -The Hague
               -Belgium

The President’s schedule
     -Biesheuvel
          -Schedule
     -PRC and Soviet Union trips

State dinner, January 25, 1972
      -Van Lynden
      -Rogers
      -The president’s Vietnam peace proposal speech, January 25, 1972
           -Location
                 -Oval Office
           -Preparation
                 -Drafts
                       -Idiom
           -Michael J. Mansfield
                 -Rogers
           -Rogers
                 -Talk with the President
                       -Biesheuvel’s interest in television
           -Mass media impact on politics
      -Dutch cabinet sessions
           -Reporting
                 -Interviews

Dutch television
     -State involvement
           -Broadcasting companies
                                                26

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                          Tape Subject Log
                                            (rev. 10/06)
                                                                 Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


     Vietnam
          -The President’s peace proposal plan
                -Possible reaction in Europe
          -Elections
                -Thieu offer of resignation
                -International oversight
                -North Vietnamese reaction
          -Possible North Vietnamese military action
                -South Vietnam
                      -US aid
          -North Vietnam
                -Analogy to North Korea
          -Peace proposal plan
                -US troop withdrawal
                      -Political agreement
                -US aid to South Vietnam
                -Soviet and PRC aid to North Vietnam
          -Political agreement

     Biesheuvel’s schedule

     Briefcase

The President, et al. left at 12:02 pm.