Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 664 › Conversation 664-002

Nixon & Gubser on China-United States relations and Taiwan

Wednesday, February 2, 1972 · 9:10 AM–9:13 AM ET · Oval Office

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Gubser, Charles S.Conversation664-002 on Tape 664 (tape position 00:16:51–00:18:04)StartWednesday, February 2, 1972 at 9:10 AMEndWednesday, February 2, 1972 at 9:13 AMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 664-002 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Congressman Charles S. Gubser discuss the political optics and strategic challenges surrounding the upcoming diplomatic mission to China. Gubser expresses concern regarding the difficulty of reaching a consensus on the Taiwan issue that would satisfy domestic critics. Nixon maintains that while total agreement on Taiwan is impossible, the administration has successfully secured the Chinese government’s consent to disagree on other sensitive matters, such as the Japan defense treaty.

Audio

part A, 16:51

Download MP3 (part 1) · 169.3 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 41.4 MB

This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the players above hold the full tape, shared with neighbouring conversations. By the archivists' log it runs from 00:16:51 to 00:18:04 into the tape; their log often drifts a minute or two from the audio, so listen for the subjects in the finding aid.

NARA Description

On February 2, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles S. Gubser met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:10 am to 9:13 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 664-002 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 664-2

Date: February 2, 1972
Time: 9:10 am - 9:13 am
Location: Oval Office

The President talked with Charles S. Gubser.

[See Conversation No. 20-17]

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

Timestamps are positions within the full tape; click one to play the tape from there.

The Chinese will lay it on with great decorum and enormous dignity.
They'll see you working like crazy.
And I don't see how they can fail to be impressed.
They'll get invited to every state banquet.
But I've read over the communique, Mr. President.
On the Taiwan part?
On the Taiwan part, Mr. President, we won't be able to get anything that Joe Buckley will like.
That's impossible.
That beating can't be done.
I think they'll make a serious effort to go as far as they can with evidence, et cetera.
The best you can agree to there is that you say we don't agree.
Well, that they're doing anyway, but even the statement of disagreement has to get them a little bit before they'll say...
I mean, on everything else, they're letting us disagree totally.
And they're letting us say they'll maintain the defense treaty with Japan.

Also recorded on February 2, 1972

  • 020-016 8:51 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:51 am and 9:10 am.
  • 020-017 9:10 AM · 58 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles S. Gubser talked on the telephone from 9:10 am to 9:13 am.
  • 020-018 9:13 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:13 am and 9:14 am.
  • 664-003 9:13 AM · 34 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:13 am and 9:14 am.
  • 664-004 9:13 AM · 33 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:13 am and 9:14 am.
  • 020-019 9:14 AM · 47 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thomas N. Downing talked on the telephone from 9:14 am to 9:15 am.
  • 664-005 9:14 AM · 46 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thomas N. Downing met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:14 am to 9:15 am.
  • 664-006 9:15 AM · 49 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Ronald L. Ziegler, Henry A. Kissinger, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:15 am to 10:05 am.

All 75 conversations from February 2, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 664-002, February 2, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/664-002 (accessed November 13, 2026).