Nixon, Kissinger & White House photographer on Foreign Policy

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He was told by Rogers today, in the presence of consistent tactics, that no matter what anyone told him, including me, he, Rogers, was going to handle the contact and he was going to check everything then.

And that you told him later that the Reich doesn't know about the other channels.

No, but what we need from him is that if there's an agreement about to be signed or something, that we get a two-day notice so that we can get the check for it in a year.

And that we can give him that kind of instructions on how to handle it.

And he'll do it.

I mean, Watson is probably still his mom.

You don't have to know what Rodgers told him.

If you just tell him that he should handle it on the same kind of basis as he can handle others, then Watson is totally on your side.

What do you want me to tell them?

Why can't you come to the building?

Because I'm already late for lunch.

Well, I'll take it.

Yeah, well, let's bring him in.

Well, let's see if we can get Diane to go inside and see what's going on inside.

when you're leaving, but why?

It's not in the NFC, though.

No, it's in the 4-2.

4-2.

You better check him out.

Did Henry bless it?

He said yes.

He's lucky to get you.

He's got a marvelous job for us, and we don't know how long he'll work.

Thank you.

We're going to make sure it's out of town so they do it.

I told Henrietta about it.

You don't get it, do you?

There's the little top hat, and Lily will get it, too.

And I'll stick with it.

Why do you want to be here?

Oh, that's great.

We're going to meet in July.

Go that place well.

Sure?

No, we'll be in London.

Oh, in London?

Yes.

How old are you?

He's 36 years old.

Well, giving my congratulations, we just wish you the very best.

And see that when the wedding is done, that we see that we give them things like a little note so they can put it on their scrapbook.

All right.

You don't have to refer to any other kind of address.

You will do what I told you.

All right.

You can get a picture of what I'll do.

Yeah, okay.

How much time did the businessman take of your time?

Well, that'll knock off, right?

They can't work you that hard.

You've got enough to do.

You know, to heck with it.

We see it, George.

I mean, it's worth our while.

But by God, those businessmen are not easy to handle.

No, no.

Well, they're an asshole.

You know, they gave us a nice time.

Who arranged those, Henry?

I think, uh, I think Flanagan.

Yeah.

He had a lot of expertise.

Ah, you see him out there, Senator?

Right here.

Oh, Cromer was in yesterday and the congratulations of he on what you did.

What Senator Mathias wanted this morning is to say that he's proud to be in the same party with you.

Oh, my God.

He said wherever he travels, he finds total support.

He's never been away from support.

That's interesting.

What time is your dinner?

Your lunch?

I'll ask the president.

There are occasions, and there may be something that good work agreement was reached or something, you know, or something.

Well, for example, one example was

and possibly Boggs, on things like that, you should, any of that sort of, you should back-channel me first before telling anybody in state, because they'll leave it out of the city, and I've got to, and they don't help us with the Congress, so I've got to bring those guys in and say, look, I just, I, you see my point?

Any agreements or anything, and then you just continue to remember that.

It doesn't mean we don't tell state about it in the current time,

But this, we want to remember, this is of such enormous importance, and this is not to have, this is not to have, but that is the most that we have to have in terms of this.

Many times you see that this, some of the state people, well, well, well, they're trying to leak it out, and they did it, rather than, we did it, and you did it, and now they're going to have it.

We have to do it, and it's the same true of the Russian trip.

So I quote my commentary in the stream,

that we should know first, let us know.

We do that in the world.

As long as I guess you're walking with it, that's what it is.

I've had an experience of this.

So that guy, I remember the thing down out here.

Well, that's my point.

Well, they just leaked another one, so now that I'm not, if I'm sending, it's always a minor conversation.

Doesn't that get a side thing?

I just send them a fax, throw a message, and say, from here on in, I'm not going to quote any source.

Because I don't want some of these French-speaking names appearing in the press.

One came, a table was leaked.

in January about a meeting at all.

And it was really, it was quoting Mr. de Beaumarchais.

Of course, as soon as that happens, then our sources will dry up.

So we're not mentioning anything about it.

We're nothing to her.

I mean, we've had many about that channel.

They did never go over anything.

You know, they're bad speakers aren't they?

They just can't help it.

They're just weakers.

Well, anyway.

Well, that's an important matter for an interview about.

Ah, really?

How is it?

Oh, it's great.

It's great.

Have you ever seen anything like that?

Have you had a party or something?

I had one last night.

I wasn't there.

You want me to sign it?

You can come to the next round.

I want to.

So I'll try to be there all year in the house.

We want you to scan it.

Oh, I know.

What do you do at the other house?

We were trying to sell it.

Oh, you can sell it.

Okay.

Henry, before you go and see Paul Brown, how do you do it?

I heard that, uh, in a news conference this morning, something out of state was detected.

We were required to agree to adoption.

Yeah.

So, in Celtic, was that, I don't visualize, was that put out there?

What, for what purpose?

They had not even said it was being discussed.

But why did they say we were agreeing to it?

Mr. President, uh, you have said away anything you have probably forgotten.

You started that one-man track, going with men to Russia.

I know.

I told them that I had to start it, but they forget that.

You said you don't have to respond on the way out to the pickup of the astronauts.

You gave full-time orders.

This whole thing has to be handled.

I don't want credit for my help, but we handled the whole thing out of here.

But three weeks ago, when we got into the final phase of the restricted interstate,

What was your reaction to

Joe and I, I think it was very many other times, you know, that he went up and talked to the North.

I believe it.

I think that's the reason why...

I think, though, it seems to me that he did that.

I don't think that was related so much to this.

I think that if Joe and I just decided, they probably told him then they were going to have a meeting.

And he was surprised.

He made the move.

That's why we didn't tell him about that.

I think, no, I don't think so.

Well, maybe that show up at any rate to him.

I think, though, this does show that you're not that mean.

Right.

I just want to tell you, I was just going over a couple of things with Henry, and he told me that he was having lunch with you, so he'll be 10 minutes late, but don't blame him.

Blame me, will you?

Yeah, because I just had a couple of minutes.

I had a good time.

I had to go to camp.

I didn't get to work on this bus thing this afternoon, so.

Oh, you got any answers on that?

There isn't.

It just tears the country apart.

But I think I'll come up with something truthful.

And decent, decent.

But anyway, Henry will be, he'll be down about ten minutes late, if that's all right with you.

Bye.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I appreciate that.

We've got some things hard.

Incidentally, I would like for Henry to talk a little to you when he's sitting here right now about the Soviet thing, because that's very important.

You see, that's the other side of it.

And some people, Bill, have incorrectly thought that by doing the China thing that this would blow the Soviet thing.

Well, it's not doing that at all.

Not doing that at all.

We're playing both in an even-handed way.

That's what we all want.

Right.

And we've also, I've talked to him about arranging this business of the, you know, the informed meetings, you know, the committee and so forth.

So we're dealing with that.

Okay.

And you're, how do you play any golf these days?

I quit the games, and I quit.

Oh, yeah.

All right.

All right, now, you're too, you're too good to give it up, all right?

Well, you're very kind to say that.

Well, try to keep close touch.

Okay.

You know, why doesn't Rogers pick that line up?

I mean, here's the whole right segment.

It's universal, Mr. President.

I mean, when Maasai, I'm sure he wants something.

He said, I want you to know, he has requested yesterday to see me for two and a half minutes.

Well, he wanted a minor favor that if I go to that conference at the end of April, can he ride with me?

He also has a ride with David Rockefeller.

So this was not the reason to see me.

He said, I wanted to see you, to tell you.

I'm proud to be with the President.

Wherever I go now, there's a tremendous groundswell for him.

This was a tremendous achievement and so on.

And so it couldn't have been... And Cromer said it was a superb professional job.

They all are full of admiration of it in Britain.

He particularly complimented also the communique for its professionalism.

And it's unbelievable what we're up to this year.

But for Vietnam, again, see it as a mental case.

I had to give you two other points briefly.

The State Department memorandum on Taiwan that you sent to me, it did seem to me, when I raised one of those questions, had some thoughtful points in it.

And I think I want you to continue to get them to, down in the bureaucracy, they've got to have some bright guys that are trying to

Oh, yes.

But Mr. President, no, no, but they get the wrong impression.

It's no committee which they don't have a chair or participate in.

They're sitting on everything.

The other point, which I had made this last night before you told me about that, I thought that we ought to write letters to the...

to several major leaders.

I agree.

To he, to Pompidou, to Brown, et cetera.

You know, for the ones in Andesado, a letter with regard to this trip.

You would need to be a lot more forthcoming with Pompidou and that.

A personal letter for me is part of the days of the show.

I was going to give them on Monday.

If you could put, lower somebody's work on it, and that I want to write it in person, all right?

But put a little more in it, and it's normal that we .

And I gave Krohmer a little .

Oh, it's an excellent idea.

And I gave Krohmer a little briefing yesterday.

And that we will continue to be in touch with him before, both before and after the Soviet Union.

And just say that I want you to know that I will continue to be in touch before and after the Soviet Union.

I think that's a good idea.

And let's give them a great, it was like the Japanese thing, Dr. Hayes was looking forward to his visit, and the British said, we'll be talking to Cromer, and Cromer and things, and Brown, not much, well, not much, but...

But, you see, I come back to this proposition that, and the presence of putting out that little docking thing.

Well, what the hell good does it do?

They've destroyed the whole thing for me to get there.

You know, we had that option any time in the last three months, and we didn't do it.

And they had nothing to do with it.

Even then, it doesn't make any difference.

They should let you do it.

Is it that he understands the rules?

Oh, yes.

Well, and Watson said he was at a chief of mission meeting at which the State Department people were constantly attacking the White House, and he said that he would resign if he called Irvin and told him to get them under control.

Now, Irvin is his brother-in-law.

Watson is not the brightest guy in the room.

Totally loyal.

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There's no way they can win.

It's a goddamn, there's no way you can fight the Trump.

When Bill Mayer raised the subject with me, I wanted to be in charge of Russia.

That was the biggest mistake.

He should have just tried to do it without telling me.

I don't know if he said it.

No, he should have said, Mr. President, how can I help you?

You are the one.

There is no independent State Department in any circumstances.

The great secretaries of state

Were the servants of the President not the servants of the Foreign Service?

They were.

You know, when you look back, oh, all those guys, the ones that...

It's the job of a cabinet officer to ease the life of the President.

He shouldn't go to the President to get the President and tell him how it should be the other way around.

But I think when I see the briefing this afternoon, as I shall, we'll get it under control.

But just to tell him where he should go with what, I'm making him go to hell.

I mean, I'm going to split the thing up into so many agencies that no one can claim they did it all.

That's how we learned in foreign states that that's the way it's going to be done.

Then you'll let them know that we've done that.

Yeah.

That I've done.

Well, no, I'll just have to bring and go to these various people.

Yeah.

And then states can draft the agreement, but in a way that's appropriate.

Anytime you feel it's necessary for me to get the marching orders, I'll do it.

Well, I think it'd be helpful, I told him already, you'd see him if you just saw him for ten minutes next week when he comes in here.

I will.

And to express your own personal warm regards.

And the success of the summit, the fact that he's working on it, he must work closely with you.

Funnily enough, they had the same problem we had.

I told him about private meetings between you and Brezhnev, and he said, it's guaranteed, it will happen, and there'll be many of them, but if they make it a formal thing now, there'll be a terrible row between Brezhnev, Kosygin, and Podkornik.

So they'd consider it a favor if we didn't make it a formal thing now and just have it as a private understanding.

I said, sure.

Is he going to arrange for Rodgers then?

He said Rodgers is going to be so busy.

He said, you know, he can't keep Rodgers so busy.

And he says he'll run in whichever leader isn't with you.

So either proceed, you know, or put Gorn here.

But he knows the game.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, no, he doesn't, sir.

If Breeden knows the game on Rodgers, he will not be...

Well, he's learned, after all, that everything they try to do to say, they didn't get it.

I'll call you when it comes out.

Nixon, Kissinger & White House photographer on Foreign Policy

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on March 10, 1972

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Nixon, Kissinger & White House photographer on Foreign Policy

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on March 10, 1972

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