Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 685 › Conversation 685-013

Nixon & Ziegler on ITT case and Peter M. Flanigan

Tuesday, March 14, 1972 · 3:16 PM–3:24 PM ET · Oval Office · 8 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation685-013 on Tape 685 (tape position 05:23:08–05:31:19)StartTuesday, March 14, 1972 at 3:16 PMEndTuesday, March 14, 1972 at 3:24 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 685-013 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler met to coordinate the White House's public response to ongoing controversy surrounding the ITT case. They discussed strategies for defending staff member Peter M. Flanigan against political attacks, emphasizing that White House officials must maintain contact with various sectors of society as a standard professional duty. Nixon and Ziegler also reviewed the effectiveness of John N. Mitchell's recent testimony, agreeing to maintain a firm stance and frame the criticism from senators as politically motivated harassment.

Audio

Download MP3 · 11.3 MB

This clip was extracted from the full tape recording by Easy Nixon.

Listen to the full tape segment

Position in tape: 05:23:08 – 05:31:19

part C, 1:18:40

685a.mp3
685b.mp3
685c.mp3
685d.mp3

NARA Description

On March 14, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:16 pm to 3:24 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 685-013 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 685-13

Date: March 14, 1972
Time: 3:16pm - 3:24 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Ronald L. Ziegler.

       Press briefing
             -Time
                    -Questions

                    -International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] case
                          -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
                          -John D. Ehrlichman
                                 -Thomas F. Eagleton
                          -Peter M. Flanigan
                          -Political factor
                          -Flanigan
                                 -Ziegler’s comments
                                       -Eagleton
                          -White House staff
                                 -Staff duties
                                 -Business
                          -Senators
                                 -Flanigan
                          -Political factor
                          -John N. Mitchell's testimony
                                 -James O. Eastland
                                       -Press statement
                                 -Press stories
                                 -Content
                                       -Hartford
                                       -Grinnell
                          -Flanigan
                          -Grinnell
                                 -Article in Washington Star
                          -Mitchell's testimony
                          -Congress
                          -White House staff
                                 -Group
                          -Flanigan
                                 -Compared to other White House staffers
                                       -Duties

Ziegler left at 3:24 pm.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).

My lesson is that the best, the fairest, the most decent solution to a terribly difficult problem is the most difficult domestic problem that I have encountered since the present, and perhaps the most difficult one that has confronted this nation in a hundred years, to put it that way.
And so, I realize it's an awesome, solid responsibility, and it's not scary that I would probably be out here to read the message tonight.
But what I have done, this is, you might know this from the end, from the end, I don't know, if you're talking about the message, you might not know this, but I have a summary for you.
I'm going to give you some of the highlights.
Maybe that's what you've got to do.
Maybe that is what I mean.
I will refer you back to the messages one day,
this and that, and then you can get all the data that's in the register, the message you're reading, see?
And, and to show you by, show you that they're out of the page so that they don't say, gee, what is he, why'd he pick this up, pick that up?
But, in terms of, I just want you to put yourself in the position of that average person out there, think of his child, or his neighbor's child, riding that goddamn school bus, see?
Got it?
I think so.
Well, I have a moratorium that this means to stop, freeze, something like that.
I think the word moratorium has been so, if you think there's any question, I think it has to, I don't think it does use it, let me say, because I think it's pretty...
Yeah.
This means that there will be a free stop.
There will be no more Boston.
See?
This is the time to do it.
That would be the way to do it.
Yeah.
Oh, I know that.
I know you, Sidney.
I wouldn't even expect you to even approach her.
Why don't you take the rest of the day?
No.
No, I mean, they don't know.
My thought is that I should be able to get a point.
How's that sound to you?
By the morning.
By the morning, no.
I mean, do work with me, will you?
Work around now.
But I'm going to ask you to do something.
I do not want you to shed this around me, buddy.
I don't want you to let me start that after I see the first act.
You're going to have it.
I want you to ask it.
Pray to God that it messes with your head, buddy.
Now this thing, I will decide just to do what I want you to do.
and I'll decide if I'm going to let anybody else do it.
You see, you've got to be ready, you've got to do it.
Land, and then you're going to have to send it over to Richardson, and he'll try to write something into it.
You've got to send it to Earl and the rest, and he's going to work.
I know what he's going to do, and I'm going to make that decision, and that's not the end.
So don't shift this.
Don't let anybody know what's coming out.
Just do your work on something, and it's a deep, dark secret.
You and I will split it up and say absolutely no copies to anybody.
Don't discuss it with anybody.
Don't ask anybody anything.
I'm going to say the right thing to do.
Okay?
And then we'll say tomorrow, if I could go there and see something around.
Well, I understand that.
So you can't block.
Well, I'll say, yeah, you have to have a...
I won't need to see it say 930.
It's better.
930.
Okay.
That doesn't give you the second you have time.
You already want the 945.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
All right.
Bye.
All right.
Bye.
Now, it seems to me that we're going to have to just say
Gentlemen, it seems to me there's not a Flanagan factor involved.
There's a political factor involved.
You know we're moving into a political year.
And I'm not going to stand here and comment on it, go through that, and then say, I'll just say this.
President Nixon has total confidence in Mr. Flanagan and feels that he has conducted himself properly while he's been here.
Then I think I'll go on to say,
Look, we have...
He is honest.
As a matter of fact, if you judge Senator Eagle, we can see progress.
I mean, it's rather new to me.
He apparently has to talk to some of the business people who are complaining because we do all the planning and it's just taken my shirt off.
I can't if I'm pressed.
But I thought another point to make is we have men in the White House and in the administration who are assigned staff people
to have contact with various segments of society, civil rights groups, education, labor, health, business, and then they'll say, Preston, I'm going to cut it off by saying, to suggest that every time someone in the White House or someone in the administration talks to someone from business
and that that is improper is just totally absurd, and I'm not even going to get into it.
Totally absurd, and throw somebody out of business, or somebody from later.
We have people that talk to, sure, people from later all the time, too.
People talk to us, they laugh.
It's the only way you can cover it.
That's right.
We have to understand why we have to make it.
We have always said that anybody that puts a pocket behind us,
The president believes that any person who has something that, who has a concern and wants to express to the president, they can't all see the president.
They see people.
The question is, how do the presidents handle it?
Do they handle it in an honest way?
Do they have an honest response to the president?
Oh, and I have to say this, that
that, uh, that do challenge any of Senator Charlie McSprings.
I mean, uh, that's Charlie McSprings.
And then one instance in which, uh, uh, he, uh, has done anything which has resulted in cushioning.
You should put that in.
You should put that in.
They're gonna tell us, uh, that it's your idea that this is a political year.
It's horrible.
Sure, but I think we have to come out strong on this.
If not, it's going to look like we're waffling on it.
Because Mitchell's testimony is quite good.
Well, pretty steady.
And Eastman came up to me and said, what do you think?
He said, I think he's telling the cold-blooded truth.
which is a pretty good line.
He seems to have done it.
What kind of things did they try to do?
Harassment?
Well, I haven't sort of talked to him.
I've just been writing.
The large services did not choose to serve at White's division.
Well, he may have denied other obligations.
One thing, which was pretty good point, when he was asked whether or not he used the language that was attributed to him, and that he said they could keep...
Hartford, if they give up Grinnell, Mitchell said, I haven't used language like that since I used to play Monopoly.

Also recorded on March 14, 1972

  • 021-066 2:55 PM · 20 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William L. Safire talked on the telephone from 2:55 pm to 3:15 pm.
  • 685-012 2:55 PM · 20 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William L. Safire met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:55 pm to 3:15 pm.
  • 021-067 3:15 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:15 pm and 4:18 pm.
  • 685-014 3:24 PM · 56 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:24 pm to 3:25 pm.
  • 685-015 3:25 PM · 47 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Debbie Wright, George H. Mahon, Raymond L. Schafer, Macon T. Edwards, James T. Hazelwood, John E. Nidecker, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:25 pm to 3:31 pm.
  • 685-016 3:31 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:31 pm and 3:37 pm.
  • 685-017 3:31 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:31 pm and 3:37 pm.
  • 685-018 3:37 PM · 14 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Tricia Nixon Cox, Luci Johnson Nugent, Patrick L. Nugent, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:37 pm to 3:49 pm.

All 54 conversations from March 14, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 685-013, March 14, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/685-013 (accessed November 2, 2026).