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Conversation: 772-015

Prev: 772-014 Next: 772-016

Start Date: 7-Sep-1972 4:47 PM

End Date: 7-Sep-1972 6:15 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Shultz, George P.Burns, Arthur F.Ehrlichman, John D.Ziegler, Ronald L.Sanchez, Manolo[Unknown person(s)]Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")White House operatorGarment, LeonardTimmons, William E.Bull, Stephen B.Dent, Harry S.Colson, Charles W.Butterfield, Alexander P.Buchanan, Patrick J.Nixon, Richard M. (President)Shultz, George P.Burns, Arthur F.Ehrlichman, John D.Ziegler, Ronald L.Sanchez, Manolo[Unknown person(s)]Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")White House operatorGarment, LeonardTimmons, William E.Bull, Stephen B.Dent, Harry S.Colson, Charles W.Butterfield, Alexander P.Buchanan, Patrick J.

Recording Device: Oval Office

772-015a.mp3

772-015b.mp3

772-015c.mp3

NARA Description:

On September 7, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, Arthur F. Burns, John D. Ehrlichman, Ronald L. Ziegler, Manolo Sanchez, unknown person(s), H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, Leonard Garment, William E. Timmons, Stephen B. Bull, Harry S. Dent, Charles W. Colson, Alexander P. Butterfield, and Patrick J. Buchanan met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:47 pm and 6:15 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 772-015 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 772-15

Date: September 7, 1972
Time: Unknown between 4:47 pm and 6:15 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with George P. Shultz, Arthur F. Burns and John D. Ehlichman.

            US economic policies
                -John B. Connally’s schedule
                    -Trip to Florida
                -Ronald L. Ziegler
                    -Inclusion in meeting
                    -Knowledge of subject
                    -Questioning by press
                -George S. McGovern's campaign
                    -Tax increase
                -Minimum tax
                    -Salary income
                    -1970
                                              53

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Oct-06)

                          -Funds raised
                          -Tax returns filed
                               -Relationship to those who paid taxes
                     -Number of people paying taxes
                          -Number of adjusted gross income
                 -Definition of adusted gross income
                     -Tax shelters
                          -Effect of shelter
                 -Minimum tax
                     -Size of income
                          -Shultz’s view
                          -Size of tax
                 -The President’s 1969 proposal
                     -Preference income
                          -Amount of money
                     -Rate proposed
                          -Half the rate of salary bracket
                     -Section average
                     -Rate proposal
                          -Increases
                 -Tax increase
                     -Limitations
                          -Salaries
                 -The President’s position
                     -Tax proposals

Ziegler entered at 4:49 pm.

             Taxes
                 -Ziegler's analysis
                     -Difficulties possible
                           -Press story
                 -Tax increase
                     -McGovern
                 -The President's position
                     -1969 proposal of tax reform
                           -Burns’s view
                           -Congressional reaction
                     -Minimum tax
                           -Democratic Congress
                 -Idea of tax reform
                             54

    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                     Tape Subject Log
                       (rev. Oct-06)

    -Proposal by the President
         -1969 proposal
         -Higher tax for those who have tax shelters
              -Purpose of tax reform
    -1970
         -Amount of money
    -Property tax reform
         -1969 proposal
              -The President's current position
              -Possible effect
                   -Ehrlichman’s view
    -Money usage from taxes
         -The President’s view
         -Poor
         -Elderly
         -Middle income
              -Proposal to Congress
    -Amount of money in Congress
    -Connally
         -Awareness of tax situation
-Property tax reform
    -Interlocking city and state jurisdictions
         -Revenue sharing
    -Elderly
         -Amount of income
         -Tax credit
              -Shultz’s possible solution
         -Age
    -Burns's situation in Vermont
         -Governor of Vermont [Deane C. Davis]
              -Vetoes
         -OEO bill
         -Amount of taxes in 1946
         -Current amount
    -Increase in taxes
         -Burns’s view
              -Increase in real property value
    -Burns’s position in society
         -Type of income
         -Type of property
              -Rural location
                           55

    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                    Tape Subject Log
                      (rev. Oct-06)

              -Compared with cities
    -Middle or low income
         -Type of taxes
              -Actual value in taxes
-Revenue sharing
    -Effective reduction in property tax
-Property tax
    -Effect from revenue sharing
    -Various states
         -Variation
-Tax credit for elderly
    -Effect
    -Group situation
    -Deductions
-Property tax in local government
    -Incentive for property tax reform
         -Effect on federal government
         -Alternative solution
              -Burns
                   -Wealthy
-The President's current proposed position
-Proposed statement for press
    -Idea of artificial deadline
-Burns
-McGovern
    -Funding
         -Business taxes
    -Welfare programs
         -Amount of money
         -Number of people in America on welfare
-Wealthy people and taxes
-Tax reform
    -Studying and advocating issue
    -Congressional reactions
    -Actual amount of money in proposal
         -Tax shelter
         -Equity proposition
         -Capital gains
              -Idea of location of money
    -Investment tax credit
         -Earlier advocacy
                                             56

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Oct-06)

                         -Idea of tax reform
                              -Definition
                              -Tax increase
                                   -Democrats' idea
                         -Re-allocation of funds without raising taxes
                         -McGovern
                              -Ehrlichman’s response
                                   -The Administrations actions
                         -Increase taxes without reform
                    -Political considerations
                         -Burns’s view
                    -Timing
                         -Current position of administration
                              -Proposal
                                   -Tax structure
                                   -Tax reform
                -Opponents
                -Tax reform
                -Tax increase
                    -Administration's position
                         -VAT
                         -Equitable tax
                         -Proposal
                              -1969 proposal
                                   -Tax credit for elderly
                                   -Property taxes
                    -Tax reform
                    -Tax shelter
                         -Democratic Congress
                -Milton Friedman's proposal
                    -Fiscal dividend
                    -Factoring into tax system the result of inflation
                -Stopping the rise of growth of government
                    -Variety of methods
                    -Idea of restraint
                         -President’s view

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 4:49 pm.

            Refreshments
                                               57

                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. Oct-06)

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 5:21 pm.

              US economic policies
                  -Real property tax
                       -Methodology
                  -Effect of inflation on property tax
                  -Tax increase
                       -Inflation
                       -Government influence
                  -Financing the spending of programs
                       -Problem
                  -Inflation rate
                       -Property tax
                  -Inflation
                       -Effect on property taxes
                       -Adjusting income tax
                            -Social Security
                       -Adjustment of rates
                            -Income taxes
                  -Reduction of taxes
                       -Possible adjustment of taxes
                            -Various methods
                                 -Congress's history
                                     -Effect on income tax
                                 -Reductions
                                 -Calibration
                  -Present tax system
                       -Congress
                       -Direction of tax rate
                       -Inflation
                            -Opposition
                       -Burden on taxpayers
                            -Rate adjustment

Ziegler left at 5:21 pm.

              Economy
                 -Inflation
                 -Escalation devices
                 -Additional revenue
                      -Expansion of government
                                             58

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. Oct-06)

                -Reduction of tax rates
                    -Burns’s position
                        -Political considerations
                             -Friedman’s proposal
                -Earmarking of $5 billion
                    -Lack of increase of taxes

An unknown woman entered at an unknown time after 5:21 pm.

            The President's schedule

The unknown woman left at an unknown time before 5:34 pm.

            Economy
               -Interest rates
                    -Money supply
                    -Comparisons
                    -Current trend
                         -Burns and Shultz
                    -Money supply
                    -Political considerations
                    -Housing
                         -Savings and loan associations
                              -Short term rates
                    -Prime rate
                         -Federal Reserve Bank
                              -Discount rate
                                  -Burns’s view
                              -Burns's effort
                         -Application for discount rate change
                              -Treasury's response
                                  -Kansas City Federal Reserve Bank
                                  -Bank in Boston Federal Reserve Bank
                         -Burns's efforts
               -Friedman's proposal
                    -The President’s view
                         -Description for national speech
                    -Meeting between the President and Friedman
               -Restraints on spending
                    -The President’s view
                         -Office of Management and Budget [OMB], Treasury Department
                                             59

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Oct-06)

                          -Administration policies
                              -Shultz
                          -Capitol Hill
                              -Congress
                          -Growth of government
                          -Size of government
                 -Government expenditures
                     -Percent of dollar value of US output and taxes
                          -1971
                     -McGovern's plan
                          -Percentages
                 -Calculations of McGovern's proposals
                     -Weekly announcements
                          -Casper W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
                          -Inventory of costs
                              -Dwight D. Eisenhower administration
                                   -Congress

Ziegler entered at 5:34 pm.

                     -McGovern's budget
                 -Republican leadership
                     -Republican National Committee [RNC] and Committee to Re-elect the
                      President [CRP]
                     -Documentation of weekly announcement
                          -McGovern’s budget proposal
                 -Tax
                     -Equity
                          -Effect on taxes
                          -McGovern's current position
                     -Brookings Institute
                          -The President’s trip to the Soviet Union
                          -Press conference
                               -Executive Office Building [EOB]
                          -Statement on tax increase
                 -Tax increase
                     -Administration's position
                          -Reactions by Congress

             Environmental issue
                 -Water bill
                                   60

         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                          Tape Subject Log
                            (rev. Oct-06)

        -Question of veto
             -Possible response
        -Water pollution bill
             -Effects of bill on industries
             -Gerald R. Ford
        -Veto
             -Shultz's analysis
        -Businesses
    -Burns's analysis
        -Actual issue and importance
    -Veto
        -Possible outcome
    -Automobile companies
        -Ford Motor Company
             -Effort by government

Automobile emissions systems
    -Platinum catalysts
    -Bell system announcement
         -Timing
         -General Motors [GM]

Environmental issue
    -Water bill
       -Authorization by contract authority
       -Money amount to be spent
            -William D. Ruckelshaus
       -Possible veto
            -Possible outcome
            -The President’s view
            -Spending
       -Appropriations Committee
            -Funds
       -Contract authority
            -Transportation Department
                 -Administration actions
            -Environmental Protection Agency [EPA]

Economy
   -Tax issue
       -Forthcoming meeting with the President
                            61

    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                    Tape Subject Log
                      (rev. Oct-06)

         -Public relations
    -Connally
         -Political judgement
    -Clark MacGregor
-Meeting between the President, Burns, Ehrlichman and Shultz
    -The President’s view
    -Simplification of tax forms
    -Idea of new approach
         -Friedman's plan
              -Amount
                   -Idea of restraint
                     -Tax reduction
    -Fiscal dividend
         -Government spending
         -Property tax reform
-Tax increase
    -Complexity of issue
    -Increasing rate
-Minimum tax rates
    -Notion of an increase
    -Tax credit
-Shultz and Burns
    -Ehrlichman’s comments to the press
         -Administration plans
    -Ehrlichman's transcript
-Connally
-Adjustment within current tax levels
    -The President’s view
    -Burns’s view
    -Tax increase
-Forthcoming report to the President
    -Minimum tax proposal
         -Effects
         -Friedman’s approach
              -Technicalities
    -Property tax reform
         -Tax credit
-Tax credit
    -Effect on rate
         -Burns
-Tax reform
                                               62

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. Oct-06)

                      -Burns’s involvement in issue
                 -Monetary problems
                      -International monetary policy
                      -International Monetary Fund [IMF]
                 -Announcement of discussion
                      -Date
                 -Interest rates
                 -Announcement
                      -Speech to the IMF
                 -Welcome address by the President
                      -IMF
                 -Ehrlichman
                      -Personal taxes

             Presidential gifts
                 -Watches
                      -Presidential seal
                      -Malik Faisal ibn Abd al-Aziz al-Saud

Burns and Shultz left at 5:42 pm.

             Economic meeting
                -Ehrlichman

Ehrlichman left 5:42 pm.

             Passport for trip to North Vietnam by James R. (“Jimmy”) Hoffa
                 -Revocation
                      -William P. Rogers
                 -Parole board

             Public relations on economics
                 -Tax credit
                      -Increase of taxes
                           -McGovern’s plan
                 -Individuals and taxes

             The President's schedule
                 -Press reports to the press by the administration
                     -The President's schedule
                          -Meetings
                                              63

                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Oct-06)

                               -Ambassadors
                               -Burns
                               -Ehrlichman and Henry A. Kissinger

H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman entered at 5:44 pm.

              The President's meetings with staff members
                  -Haldeman
                  -Charles W. Colson
                      -Bugging

              Bugging devices
                 -Democrats
                 -Democrat National Chairman
                      -Jean Westwood
                      -Possible bugging
                      -Democrat headquarters
                          -Watergate
                          -Box in hall with wires
                          -Fire alarm
                          -Edward Bennett Williams
                          -Type of box
                      -Question of accusation of Republicans of bugging
                          -Press
                          -Press response
                      -Call from Lawrence F. O'Brien, Jr. to Ehrlichman
                          -Reason

              Hoffa
                  -Revocation of passport

Ziegler left at 5:48 pm.

              Home Builders Association
                 -Small home builders
                    -Support of Nixon administration
                         -Administrations policies
                             -Effect on Congress
                    -Fundraising
                         -Dinners
                             -Film
                                 64

        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                         Tape Subject Log
                           (rev. Oct-06)

                -The President’s view
                -Maurice H. Stans
                -George W. Romney
                -Proposal
                -Audiotape
                     -Administration's response
        -The President's willingness to attend dinners
            -Fundraising
                -The President’s view
            -McGovern
                -Teachers

Kissinger
    -Award
        -Family of Man Council of Churches Man of the Year
          (City of New York)
        -Whitney M. Young, Jr.
        -Selection of the President in 1969
        -Director of projects
    -Appearance by Kissinger before Council of Churches

Council of Churches
   -Fundraising
   -Question of Kissinger's appearance
   -Golden Medallion Award to the President
   -Bronze award to Kissinger
   -White House staff
   -Golden Medallion Award
        -Raymond P. Shafer
            -Drug Abuse program
                 -The President’s view
                     -Kissinger in comparison to Shafer

The President's schedule
    -Cruise on the Sequoia
        -Haldeman
        -Colson
        -Reason
        -MacGregor
             -Location
        -Ehrlichman
                                                65

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Oct-06)

                         -Family
                     -Herbert G. Klein
                     -Robert H. Finch
                         -Location
                     -Leonard Garment
                     -Colson

Haldeman talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 5:44 pm and 6:14
pm.

[Conversation No. 772-15A]

             Request for a call to Garment

[End of telephone conversation]

             The President's schedule
                 -John N. Mitchell
                     -Martha (Beall) Mitchell

Haldeman talked with Garment at an unknown time between 5:44 pm and 6:14 pm.

[Conversation No. 772-15B]

             Cruise on Sequoia
                 -Dinner cruise
                 -Clothes
                 -Timing

[End of telephone conversation]

             Cruise on Sequoia
                 -Clothes
                 -Attendance
                     -Harry S. Dent
                     -William E. Timmons
                     -Colson

Haldeman talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 5:44 pm and 6:14
pm.
                                                66

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                          Tape Subject Log
                                            (rev. Oct-06)

[Conversation No. 772-15C]

             Request for a call to Timmons

[End of telephone conversation]

             Timmons
                -Conversation

             Cruise on Sequoia
                 -Bryce N. Harlow

Haldeman talked with Timmons at an unknown time between 5:44 pm and 6:14 pm.

[Conversation No. 772-15D]

             Attendance on cruise on Sequoia
                 -Garment
                     -Dock
                         -Time
                 -Reason for cruise

[End of telephone conversation]

             Cruise on Sequoia
                 -Dent

Haldeman talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 5:44 pm and 6:14
pm.

[Conversation No. 772-15E]

             Request for a call to Dent

[End of telephone conversation]

             Cruise on Sequoia
                 -Number of attending
                     -Dent
                     -Timmons
                     -Garment
                                               67

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Oct-06)

                     -Dent
                     -Colson
                     -Richard A. Moore
                     -Raymond K. Price, Jr.
                     -Patrick J. Buchanan
                 -Reason for cruise
                 -Attendance
                     -Colson
                     -Number
                     -Dent
                     -Call to Colson

Stephen B. Bull entered at 6:06 pm.

Haldeman talked with Dent at an unknown time between 5:44 pm and 6:14 pm.

[Conversation No. 772-15F]

             Attendance on cruise on Sequoia
                 -Dock
                     -Time
                     -Timmons
                     -Garment

[End of telephone conversation]

             Cruise on Sequoia
                 -Attending individuals
                     -Dent

Haldeman talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 5:44 pm and 6:14
pm.

[Conversation No. 772-15G]

             Call to Colson

[End of telephone conversation]

             Cruise on Sequoia
                 -Garment
                                               68

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. Oct-06)

                  -Colson
                  -Timmons
                  -Motorcade
                      -Automobile
                  -Dock

Haldeman talked with Colson at an unknown time between 5:44 pm and 6:14 pm.

[Conversation No. 772-15H]

              Cruise on Sequoia
                  -Dock
                      -Time
                  -Poll material
                  -Attending individuals

Bull left at 6:09 pm.

                      -Dent
                      -Timmons
                      -Buchanan
                      -Garment
                  -Automobiles

[End of telephone conversation]

Haldeman talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 5:44 pm and 6:14
pm.

[Conversation No. 772-15I]

              Request for a call to Buchanan

[End of telephone conversation]

              Garment
                 -Sammy Davis, Jr.
                 -Activities
                      -Memorial service
                          -Conversation with Max Fisher
                              -Haldeman
                                               69

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. Oct-06)

                               -Kissinger

             Kissinger
                 -Schedule
                     -Verification meeting
                         -Richard M. Helms
                         -Gerard C. Smith
                         -[David] Kenneth Rush
                         -Military personnel

             The President’s schedule
                 -Cruise on Sequoia
                     -Rogers

Haldeman talked with an unknown person at an unknown time between 5:44 pm and 6:14 pm.

[Conversation No. 772-15J]

             Haldeman's schedule

             Attendance on cruise on Sequoia

[End of telephone conversation]

Haldeman talked with an unknown person at an unknown time between 5:44 pm and 6:14 pm.

[Conversation No. 772-15K]

             Buchanan

             Cancellation

The President left at an unknown time before 6:14 pm.

[End of telephone conversation]

Alexander P. Butterfield entered at 6:06 pm.

             Executive Protective Service [EPS] assistance
                 -Edward M. Kennedy
                 -John V. Lindsay
                                               70

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Oct-06)

                     -United Nations [UN]
                         -Demonstrations
                 -Shultz
                 -Troops
                 -George H.W. Bush
                 -Shultz

Haldeman talked with Buchanan at an unknown time between 6:06 pm and 6:14 pm.

[Conversation No. 772-15L]

             Attendance on cruise on Sequoia
                 -Time

The President entered at an unknown time after 6:06 pm.

                 -Car

[End of telephone conversation]

             Melvin C. Snyder
                -Death
                -Widow
                     -Rose Mary Woods

             The President's schedule
                 -Forthcoming Cabinet breakfast meeting
                     -Timmons
                 -Peter H. Dominick

             Robert C. Wilson
                -Congressional relations

             MacGregor
                -Polls
                -William E. Brock, III

             Haldeman
                 -Cabinet agenda
                     -Breakfast meeting between the President and Cabinet members
                     -MacGregor
                                 71

         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                         Tape Subject Log
                           (rev. Oct-06)

            -Polls
        -Wilson and Dominick
            -Political campaigns
        -Date of meeting
        -Activities of members
        -Polls
            -The President’s instructions
            -Conversation about polls
    -Brock

Youth
   -Republican National Committee
       -Barbara H. Franklin
       -Anne L. Armstrong

Cabinet
    -Subject of breakfast meeting
        -Legislative session
             -Strategy on Congressional relations
                  -Ehrlichman
                  -Colson

Meeting between the President, Ehrlichman and Colson
   -Timmons
        -Cabinet

EPS situation
   -Shultz and Butterfield
   -Assistance
        -Number
             -Bush request
                 -New York City
                     -Demonstrators
                       -New York police
                         -Lindsay
        -Reasons for assistance

Secret Service protection for Kennedy
    -Kennedy
         -Haldeman's conversation with Robert Newbrand
         -James J. Rowley
                                                   72

                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. Oct-06)

                      -Assignments
                  -Type of detail on Kennedy
                      -Number
                      -Time duration
                      -The President’s instruction
                  -Amanda Burden
                  -Request by Kennedy

Butterfield left and Ziegler entered at 6:12 pm.

             Cruise on Sequoia
                 -Attendance
                     -Garment
                     -Colson
                     -Buchanan and Timmons
                     -Reasons for cruise
                          -Congressional relations
                          -Various issues

             Haldeman

Ziegler left at an unknown time before 6:15 pm.

             Secret Service protection for Kennedy
                 -Haldeman's conversation with Butterfield
                      -Conversation with Rowley
                      -Handling details for Secret Service
                           -Rowley
                 -Haldeman's upcoming conversation with Newbrand
                      -Gratitude by Newbrand towards Haldeman and the
                       President
                 -Newbrand's coverage of Kennedy
                      -Possible outcome
                           -The President’s view
                           -1976 election
                 -Coverage by Secret Service of Kennedy
                 -Newbrand
                      -Actions toward Kennedy
                           -John F. Kennedy

             Cruise on the Sequoia
                                              73

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Oct-06)

                 -Travel
                 -Mount Vernon
                     -Helicopter

            John Mitchell
                -Birthday
                     -Forthcoming telephone call

The President and Haldeman left at 6:15 pm.