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Conversation: 791-011

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Start Date: 3-Oct-1972 3:32 PM

End Date: 3-Oct-1972 4:16 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Richardson, Elliot L.Hoopes, David C.Ehrlichman, John D.Cole, Kenneth R., Jr.Bull, Stephen B.[Unknown person(s)]Griffin, Robert P.Timmons, William E.Goode, Mark I.Johnson, RobertGordon, John Marshall

Recording Device: Oval Office

791-011a.mp3

791-011b.mp3

NARA Description:

On October 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Elliot L. Richardson, David C. Hoopes, John D. Ehrlichman, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., Stephen B. Bull, unknown person(s), Robert P. Griffin, William E. Timmons, Mark I. Goode, Robert Johnson, and John Marshall Gordon met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:32 pm to 4:16 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 791-011 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 791-11

Date: October 3, 1972
Time: 3:32 pm - 4:16 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Elliot L. Richardson, David C. Hoopes, John D. Ehrlichman, and
Kenneth R. Cole, Jr.

        The President's schedule
            -[Signing documents]
                 -Message

        House Resolution [HR 1]
           -Welfare reform
               -Three year effort
               -Richardson's role
                    -Answering questions
                        -Television [TV]
                        -National meetings
               -Adlai E. Stevenson, III
                    -Amendment
                        -Similarities to HR 1
                        -Likelihood of offering
                           28
    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                   Tape Subject Log
                     (rev. Nov-03)

               -Contact with Stevenson’s staff
               -Timing
               -Abraham Ribicoff
                     -Amendment
         -Benefit level
               -Ribicoff
         -Day care
               -Appropriations
                     -Authorization
                     -Possible changes to amendment
    -Hugh Scott
         -Amendment
               -Possible statement
         -Ribicoff
               -Changes in support among liberals
-William V. Roth-Harry F. Byrd, Jr.
    -Wage supplementation
    -Conservatives
         -Working poor
    -Aid for Families with Dependent Children [AFDC]
    -Titles I, II, III
    -Veto possibility
-Stevenson
    -Conservatives
         -Possible filibuster
    -Debt ceiling
         -Titles I, II, III
               -Wilbur D. Mills
               -Social Security
               -Medicare
               -Medicaid
    -Scott
         -Amendment
               -Rejection outcome
                     -Ribicoff
-Long-Byrd amendment
    -Filibuster
-Stevenson
    -Rejection outcome
    -Scott
                             29
    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                     Tape Subject Log
                       (rev. Nov-03)

           -Scenario for support
-Titles I, II, III
     -Title IV
     -Mills
           -Debt limit
                 -Possible veto
           -Effective date
                 -Fiscal year [FY] 1974
     -Increase in payroll taxes
-Stevenson amendment
     -Similarity to HR 1
     -Costs of childcare
     -Previous versions 1969, 1970
     -Tax rate
     -Social security
           -Cost of living adjustment [COLA]
     -Minimum wage
     -Income tax
     -Possible reduction in childcare
-Politics
     -Scott
           -Recent conversation with Richardson
     -Salvaging credibility for Nixon administration
     -Russell B. Long
     -Liberal appearance
     -Scott
     -Similarity with earlier versions
           -COLA adjustment
                 -Application to Social Security
                 -Childcare
                 -Effective date
     -Stevenson amendment
     -Long
           -Cloture
                 -Possible filibuster
                      -Timing
     -Mills
           -Conference
     -Possible press reports
           -Ribicoff
                                             30
                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Nov-03)

                          -Stevenson
                     -Conservative senators
                          -Republicans
                          -Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]
                              -Draft of Stevenson amendment
                              -Ribicoff
                              -Stevenson
                              -HEW motive
                          -Senate Finance Committee
                          -Stevenson
                          -Robert P. Griffin
                     -Thomas C Korologos
                          -Long, Wallace Bennett
                          -Long
                              -Stevenson amendment
                              -HR 1
                              -Votes for Cloture
                     -Ribicoff
                          -Possible demise of bill
                     -Revenue sharing
                     -Democratic proposals
                     -Public relations
                          -Consistency
                     -New York Times article
                          -John V. Lindsay
                              -New York City
                                   -Increase in welfare rolls
                     -Administration's desire for welfare reform
                     -Interpretations
                          -Liberal position
                              -Ribicoff
                 -Senate vote
                     -Ribicoff amendment
                     -Stevenson amendment
                     -Griffin
                     -Richardson
                          -Scott
                          -Stevenson

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 3:32 pm.
                                               31
                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Nov-03)


        The President's schedule
            -Griffin
                -Senate vote
                     -William E. Timmons
                     -Ribicoff amendment

Bull left at an unknown time before 4:11 pm.

        HR 1
           -Welfare reform
              -Long
              -Scott
                   -Stevenson
              -Press reaction
                   -Ribicoff
              -Post 1972 election plans
                   -Senate, House of Representatives
              -Health programs
                   -President’s forthcoming comments
                   -Ways and Means
              -Ehrlichman’s schedule
                   -Camp David
              -Politics
                   -Richardson
                   -New York Times editorial
                   -Ribicoff
                   -Attitude in country compared to 1969
                   -President’s possible
                   -George P. Shultz
                   -Rhode Island
                        -Richardson’s schedule
                            -John H. Chaffee
                            -Herbert F. De Simone
                        -George S. McGovern
                   -McGovern's welfare plan
                        -Working poor

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 3:32 pm.
                                                 32
                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Nov-03)

        The President’s schedule
            -Griffin
                -Photo session
                     -Oval office

An unknown person left at an unknown time before 4:11 pm.

        HR 1
           -Ribicoff

Bull entered at an unknown time after 3:32 pm.

        The President’s schedule
            -Griffin
                -Lighting

Bull left and Griffin and William E. Timmons entered at 4:11 pm.

        HR 1
           -Senators
               -Senate Finance Committee
                    -Ribicoff
           -Press
               -Ribicoff
           -Richardson’s efforts
           -Conservatives

Mark I. Goode, Robert Johnson, John Marshall Gordon entered at 4:14 pm.

        [Filming session]
            -Arrangements
            -H.R. 1
                -Stevenson
                -Ribicoff
                -Earlier bill

        Richardson
            -HEW
            -Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO]
                                               33
                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                         Tape Subject Log
                                           (rev. Nov-03)

Richardson, Ehrlichman, and Cole left at 4:14 pm.

         [Filming session]
             -Griffin
             -Baseball
                 -Mickey Lolich
                      -Score of the playoff game
                      -Detroit
                      -Recent meeting with the President
             -Michigan
                 -Detroit
                 -Democrats
                      -Ethnic groups

         Busing
             -[Stephen J. Roth]
                  -McGovern
             -Detroit News
                  -Poll
                      -McGovern-Frank J. Kelly ticket
                           -Welfare, increased taxes

         HR 1
            -Welfare reform
               -Stevenson amendment
                    -Richardson’s view
                    -Ehrlichman’s and Cole’s view
                         -Child care
                         -COLA
                         -Ribicoff
                    -Griffin’s view
                    -Liberals

         The President's schedule
             -Filming session
                 -Arrangements

The President, et al. left at 4:16 pm.
                                              34
                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. Nov-03)