Conversation: 820-015
Prev: 820-014 Next: 820-016Start Date: 12-Dec-1972 12:25 PM
End Date: 12-Dec-1972 1:30 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Lewis, Hobart D.; Kauffmann, John H.; O'Neill, Michael J.; Haig, Alexander M., Jr.; Klein, Herbert G.; White House photographer;Recording Device: Oval Office
NARA Description:
On December 12, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Hobart D. Lewis, John H. Kauffmann, Michael J. O'Neill, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., Herbert G. Klein, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:25 pm to 1:30 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 820-015 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 820-15
Date: December 12, 1972
Time: 12:25 pm - 1:30 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Hobart D. (“Hobe”) Lewis, John H. Kauffmann, Michael J. O'Neill,
Alexander M. Haig, Jr. and Herbert G. Klein. Members of the press and the White House
photographer were present at the beginning of the meeting.
Greetings
[General conversation]
-Fellow travlers
[Photograph session]
Lewis’s, Kauffmann’s and O’Neill’s trip to Soviet Union
-Return
-Soviet Union
-Compared to jail
-Psychological effect
-Hermitage, Leningrad
-31-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-Patricia (Bellinger) Kauffmann
-Smiles
-US Information Agency [USIA] Exhibition on Research and Development
-Public interest
-Mongolians
-Opening
-Change in Soviet Union
-Government
-Reception
-Foreign ministry
-Vasily V. Kuznetsov
-Arrival from Moscow
-Press relations
-Pravda article
-Washington Star
-American tour guides
-Men and women
-The President’s trip to the Soviet Union, 1959
-Possible meeting with the President
-Timing
-1973 Inauguration
-Education
-Russian speaking ability
-Russians
-Knowledge of US
-Expectations
-Tour guides
-Lewis’s and Kauffmann’s conversation with Frank J.
Shakespeare
-US Fairs
-Quality
-Compared to communists
-Soviet Union
-Georgetown
-Funding
-Shakespeare
-Congressional relations
-Soviet Union
-Size of things
-32-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-Airplane hangars
-Progress
-Communists countries
-Psychological effect
-Moscow
-Compared to Warsaw and Romania
-Romania
-Compared to Italy
-Kauffmann’s trip to Bucharest and Prague
-Leo Tolstoy, Peter I. Tchaikovsky
-Terror
-Bucharest
-Vienna
-Kauffmann’s trip
-Prague
-Western Europe
-Riots, youth unrest
-O’Neill’s interviews pf American students
-University of Moscow
-US government
-Embassy
-Compared to People’s Republic of China [PRC]
-The President’s view
Soviet Union
-Compared to the People’s Republic of China [PRC]
-The President’s view
-People
-Taiwan, Republic of China, Singapore, Hong Kong
-Dress
-Women
-Hair, dress
-Leader class
-Civilization
-Toughness
-Civilization
-Communism
-Peasantry
-Communist systems
-33-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-Peking-Moscow-Warsaw-Vienna
-Gradations
-Compared to US
-Relations with US
-Scholars
-Peace
-Pace
-People
-PRC
-Compared to PRC
-Progress
-Lewis’s, Kauffmann’s and O’Neill’s trip to the Soviet Union
-Moscow
-GUM department store
-University of Moscow
-Leningrad
-The President’s 1959 trip
-Change, 1959-1972
-US and Communists systems
-Possible melding
-Timing
-The President’s conversation with [Maurice] Harold MacMillan, 1959
-The President’s trip to the Soviet Union, 1959
-Camp David
-MacMillan’s trip to the Soviet Union
-Great Britain’s history
-Monarchy
-Political executions
-Exile
-Compared to the Soviet Union’s history
-Georgi Malenkov
-Hydroelectric plant
-[Kazakhstan]
-Nikita S. Khrushchev
-Alexander Dubcek
-Khrushchev
-US policy
-Sentimentalism
-Frol Kozlov
-34-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-Khrushchev’s view
-Death
-Leningrad
-Khrushchev’s view
US-Soviet Union relations
-US foreign policy
-Idealism
-Europe’s view
-Indian fighters
-World War I
-Versailles
-[Thomas] Woodrow Wilson
-Post-World War II
-Berlin
-Vienna
-Winston S. Churchill
-Iron Curtain
-United Nations [UN]
-US public opinion
-Taiwan
-Vietnam War
-Rhetoric
-Communists
-Totalitarianism, dictatorship
-Freedom, liberation
-Soviet Union-PRC relations
-US broker role
-Peace
-US self-interest
-Private compared to public statements
-Right
-Left
-Communists
-Center
-Realism
-Self-interest
-Africa
-Guatemala
-35-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-The President’s education
-Whittier, California Sunday school
-Blacks
-Moral appeal to US
-Leadership
-Decision making
-Sentimentality
-O’Neill’s experience on USIA inspection team in Moscow
-Trade, commercial relations
-Management
-Economic policy
-Commerce Department
-Balance of payment
-Foreign policy
-Information
-Psychological penetration
-European Security Conference
-Cultural exchange
-Channels
-US embassy in Moscow
-Kremlin
-Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
-Economic initiatives
-Trade, business
-US foreign policy
-Role of ambassadors
-Leonid I. Brezhnev
-Presidents
-Jacob D. Beam
-Czechoslovakia
-Llewellyn E. (“Tommy”) Thompson, Jr.
-Dobrynin
-Meetings with the President
-Foreign Service Officers [FSOs]
-Wires
-Dobrynin
-PRC
-Privacy
-36-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
US trade relations
-Commerce Department
-US-Soviet Union gas deal
-East, West fields
-Competition
-US companies
-Combines
-Japan
-Commerce Department
-Japan
-El Paso
-Tennessee
-Commerce Department
-East-West trade
-US antitrust laws
-Europe
-Soviet Union
-PRC
-Japan
-Mitsubishi, Mitsui
-Europe
-Peter G. Peterson
-Military
-Japan
-Europe
-Quotas
-US security guarantee
-Relinquishment
-Soviet Union, PRC
-Nuclear option
-Europe
-Edward R. G. Heath
-Georges J. R. Pompidou
-Willy Brandt
-Italians
-Government
-US antitrust laws
-Economic policy
-Business
-37-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-Foreign policy
-Second term reorganization
-George P. Shultz
-Commerce and Labor Departments
-Soviet Union, PRC, Britain
-Alternative view
-Wall Street
-New York Times [?]
-US assets
-Nuclear weapons
-Deterrent
-Productivity
-Fairness
-Connally’s actions
-Tone
-Europe
-Japan
-State Department
-Second term reorganization
-Ambassadors
-Peterson’s trip
-Cartels
-Europeans
-Japan
-Magnavox Corporation
-Kauffmann’s position on board of directors
-Frank M. Freimann
-Death
-Friemann
-Relationship with the President
-New York, Japan
-Godfrey T. McHugh
Second term reorganization
-USIA
-Personnel
-Eastern Europe
-Soviet Union
-Shakespeare
-38-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-Romania
-Bucharest
-Moscow
-Andrew T. Falkiewicz
-Knowledge of culture, politics of foreign policy
-Shakespeare
-Lunch with Kauffmann
-Shakespeare
-Meeting with the President
-Departure
-New York
-Possible job
-FSOs
-Turnover
-Soviet Union
-Life
-Wives
-Moscow
-Golf, tennis
-Bucharest
-Country club
-Golf, tennis
-The President’s trip
-US ambassador to the Soviet Union
-Foreign Service
-Diplomatic Chief of Mission
-Adolph Dubs
-Compared to Thompson
-Henry A. Kissinger
-Possible position
-Chief of staff
-Beam
-Dobrynin
-Beam
-Messenger role
-Residence
Kauffmann’s trip to Bucharest and Prague
-US embassy in Romania
-39-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-Morale
-Leonard Meeker
-US embassy in Yugoslavia
-[Malcolm Toon]
-US embassy in Romania
-Morale
-Compared to Czechoslovakia
-Czechoslovakia
-Danube River
-Cemetery
-Patricia Kauffmann
-The President’s trip
-Jews
-Danube River
-Relations with the Soviet Union
-Services
-Restaurants
-German influence
-Communism
-Civilization
Communism
-Civilization
-France
-Soviet Union
-Czechoslovakia
-Pre-World War II
-Per capita income
Second term reorganization
-USIA
-Radio Liberty
-Voice of America
-O’Neill’s anecdote
-USIA
-Correspondents’ view
-Hedrick Smith
-New York Times
-Radio Liberty
-40-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-Moscow
-Washington, DC
-Red Smith
-Radio Liberty
-Use of defectors
-Dissidents
-Dissidents
-Hedrick Smith’s conversations with Russians
-The President’s conversation with John Cardinal Krol
-Poland
-Humor
-Humor
-Soviet Union
-Polish joke book
-US embassy
-Cooperation
-Corporate contributions of equipment
-Fairs
Lewis’s, Kauffmann’s and O’Neill’s trip to the Soviet Union
-Food
-Caviar, bread
White House gifts
-Cuff links
-Presidential seal
-Pins for wives
[General conversation]
Vietnam negotiations
-Issues
-Importance
-Paris meetings
-Timing
Haig et al., except Lewis left at 1:16 pm.
US trade relations
-41-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-Britain, PRC, Soviet Union
-Foreign policy
*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
[Dwight] David Eisenhower, II
-Career possibilities
-Los Angeles Times
-Writing skills
-Style
-History
-Possible articles for Reader’s Digest
-Volunteer army
-Travel
Tricia Nixon Cox and Edward R. F. Cox
-Trip to Europe
-Soviet Union
Julie Nixon Eisenhower and David Eisenhower
-Possible trip to PRC
David Eisenhower
-Roving reporter
-Keen observer
-Youth viewpoint
-Political career
-Gettysburg, Pennsylvania seat
-1974 election
-Navy tour completion
-Letter from Lewis
-Possible position
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
Second term reorganization
-42-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-USIA
-Shakespeare successor
-Access to the President, Kissinger, and the Secretary of State
-James Keogh
-Access
-Kissinger
-Shakespeare
-Personalities
Vietnam negotiations
-Lewis’s conversation with Haig
-Settlement agreement
-Conditions
-[North Vietnam]
-Nguyen Van Thieu’s speech to the South Vietnam National Assembly
-Withdrawal of North Vietnamese troops from South Vietnam
-Compared to cease-fire in place
-Prisoners of War [POWs]
-Cease-fire
-Supervised elections
-South Vietnamese self-determination
-Thieu’s position
-Withdrawal of North Vietnamese troops from South Vietnam
-US public opinion
-US public opinions
-US bombing of North Vietnam
-Thieu
-The President’s May 8, 1972 decision
-US bombing and mining of North Vietnam
-US-Soviet Union summit
-Victory
-US-North Vietnam bilateral deal
Second term reorganization
-USIA
-Keogh
-Tenacity, loyalty
Soviet Union
-43-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-US left
-Communism
-Lewis’s trip
-Georgi A. Zhukov’s conversation with Lewis
-Georgi A. Zhukov’s visit to the US
-Beam
-Gen. Georgi K. Zhukov
-Dartmouth Conference
-Compared to Pugwash Conference
-Norman Cousins
-David Rockefeller
-Bicentennial
-David J. Mahoney, Jr.
-Norton Simon
-Rockefeller, Simon, Cousins
-Liberalism
-Georgi A. Zhukov
-Georgi A. Zhukov
-The President’s trip to the Soviet Union, 1959
-Previous writings about US
-Beam
-PRC
1972 election
-Results
-George S. McGovernites
Vietnam negotiations
-Settlement agreement
-Signing
-October 31, 1972
-1972 election
*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
David Eisenhower
-Writer
-44-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. May-08)
Conversation No. 820-15 (cont’d)
-Trip to PRC
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
Bicentennial
-Need for director
-Nelson A. Rockefeller
-Connally
-Frank Stanton
-Staff
-Leslie T. (“Bob”) Hope
Lewis left at 1:30 pm.