Conversation: 822-011
Prev: 822-010 Next: 822-012Start Date: 13-Dec-1972 4:15 PM
End Date: 13-Dec-1972 4:55 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Jackson, Henry M. ("Scoop"); Sanchez, Manolo; White House operator; Bull, Stephen B.; Friedman, Milton;Recording Device: Oval Office
NARA Description:
On December 13, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry M. ("Scoop") Jackson, Manolo Sanchez, White House operator, Stephen B. Bull, and Milton Friedman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:15 pm to 4:55 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 822-011 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 822-11
Date: December 13, 1972
Time: 4:15 pm – 4:55 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson.
Greetings
Jackson’s trip to Europe and Middle East
-Speech
-Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
-Golda Meir
-Meeting with Jackson
-Greetings from the President
-Toughness, compassion
-Political intentions
-Compared to Indira Gandhi
-India
-Jackson’s view
-Relations with US
-Dinner for Gandhi, November 4, 1971
-Invasion of East Pakistan
-The President’s toast
-Jawaharlal Nehru
-Gandhi’s toast
-Tone
-US wealth
-Ideals, morals
-The President’s and Jackson’s views
-Pakistan
Jackson’s recent trip to Europe and Middle East
-Meeting with [Shah of Iran] Mohammed Reza Pahlavi
-Greetings from the President
-Iran
-21-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-08)
Conversation No. 822-11 (cont’d)
-Pro-Western orientation
-Relations with India
-Relations with Iraq
-Soviet Union
-Urban guerrillas
-Soviet Union
-Defense spending
-Effect on Saudi Arabia
-Great power role
-Helicopters, concords
-Saudi Arabia
-Political situation
-Jackson’s view
-John B. Connally’s trip
Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 4:15 pm.
Refreshments
-Tea
Sanchez left at an unknown time before 4:47 pm.
Jackson’s recent trip to Europe and Middle East
-Saudi Arabia
-Connally’s forthcoming trip
-[Faisal, King of Saudi Arabia] Malik Faisal ibn Abd al-Aziz al-Saud
-Jackson’s telephone call to Connally
-Business
-Connally’s briefings of the President
-Energy issue
-Jackson’s meeting with Peter M. Flanigan
-Departmental disputes
-Interior Department
-Commerce Department
-Atomic Energy Commission [AEC]
-Defense Department [DOD]
-State Department
-White House staff
-Cuts
-Role
-22-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-08)
Conversation No. 822-11 (cont’d)
Sanchez entered and left at an unknown time before 4:47 pm.
-White House staff
-Policy
-Oil, nuclear
-US-Soviet Union gas deal
-Jackson’s possible conversation with John D. Ehrlichman
-Handling
-James E. Akins
-Flanigan
-State Department
-Transportation Department
-Unknown person
-George P. Shultz [?]
***********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8
[National Security]
[Duration: 3s ]
[Subject: Intelligence]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8
***********************************************************************
Energy
-Jackson’s possible conversation with Ehrlichman
-Handling
-Departments, agencies
Middle East
-Persian Gulf
-Jackson’s concern
-Iraq
-Soviet Union
-Oil reserves
-Iraq
-Saudi Arabia
-23-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-08)
Conversation No. 822-11 (cont’d)
-Compared to the US
-Population
-Persian Gulf
-Oil
-Soviet Union
-Intentions
-Communism
-Influence on oil supplies
-Mohammed Mossadegh
-Western Europe
-Japan
-Iran-Saudi Arabia relations
-State Department
-Jackson’s conversation with Connally
-Shah’s view
-Basis of mutual enmity
-Race, ethnicity
-Arabs
-Kuwait
-Population
-Saudi Arabia
-Political situation
-Projected revenue
-1980
-Persian Gulf
-US balance of payments deficit
-Israeli-Arab conflict
-Resolution
-Shah’s view
-Saudi Arabia’s position
-Algeria’s position
-Syria’s position
-US position
-Saudi position
***********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10
[National Security]
[Duration: 27s ]
-24-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-08)
Conversation No. 822-11 (cont’d)
[Subject: Saudi Arabia, Iran]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10
***********************************************************************
Middle East
-Ambassadorship to Iran
-Richard M. Helms
-Retirement
-Age
-Joseph S. Farland
-Intelligence background
-Persian Gulf
-Conversation with Jackson
***********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11
[National Security]
[Duration: 32s ]
[Subject: Middle East]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11
***********************************************************************
Middle East
-Statistics on oil
-Akens
-Flanigan
Energy
-US position
-Oil prices
-Arab’s position
-Intention not to pump
-Conversations with Jackson
-Shah’s view
-Saudi Arabia
-25-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-08)
Conversation No. 822-11 (cont’d)
-US science and technology
-Research and development [R & D]
-Coal
-Gassification
-Liquification
-Oil shale
-Colorado
-US oil companies
-Oil companies
-Advertising
-Geothermal
-Nuclear power
-Incentives to drill
-Canada
-Canada
-Natural gas reserves
-Liquefied Natural Gas [LNG]
-Soviet Union
-US dependence on foreign sources
-Oil
-1972 compared to 1980
-Natural gas
-Algeria
-Soviet Union
Jackson’s trip to Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania and Czechoslovakia
-Meetings with Josip Broz Tito and other heads of state
-Tito
-Ethnic problems
-Background
-Croatia
-Serbs, Slovenes
-Age
-View of the President
-Drinking
-Brandy
-Succession
-Leonid I. Brezhnev
-Doctrine
-Succession
-26-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-08)
Conversation No. 822-11 (cont’d)
-Soviet Union
Bulgarians
-Compared to Soviets
The President spoke with the White House operator at an unknown time between 4:15 pm and
4:47 pm.
[See Conversation No. 34-64]
[End of telephone conversation]
Eastern Europe
-Trade with US
-Czechoslovakia
-Soviet Union
-US technical assistance and exchanges
-Bulgaria
-Czechoslovakia
-Doctors
-Managerial help
-Romania
-Jackson’s meeting with Nicholae Ceausescu
-Communism
-Internal conditions
-Compared to the Soviet Union
-Ceausescu’s relations with US
-Aid
-Bulgaria
-Compared to the Soviet Union
-Slavs
-Czechoslovakia
-US technical aid
-View of US science, technology and economic output
-People
-East-West trade
-Ideology
Second term reorganization
-National defense and arms control
-27-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-08)
Conversation No. 822-11 (cont’d)
-Elliot L. Richardson
-Jonathan Moore
-Jackson’s position on Institute of Politics, John F. Kennedy School of
Government [Harvard University]
-Dr. Jerome B. Weisner
-Compared to William Miller
-John Sherman Cooper
-Jackson’s conversation with Richardson
-Laurence E. (“Larry”) Lynn, Jr.
-Resignation
-Cambodia invasion
-The President’s conversation with Richardson
-Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]
-DOD
-Lynn
-Cambodia
-Loyalty
-Position
-Influences
-DOD
-William P. Clements, Jr.
-John A. Tower
-Meeting with Jackson
-Richardson
-Conversation with Jackson
-Ivy League
-SALT
-Hard and soft lines
-State Department
-Melvin R. Laird
-William P. Rogers
-Intelligence
-Loyalty
-Managerial ability
-Clements
-Influences
-Arms control
-Arms Control and Disarmament Agency [ACDA]
-Jackson’s recommendations
-Jackson’s conversation with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
-28-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-08)
Conversation No. 822-11 (cont’d)
-Elimination
-Staff
-Cuts
-Budget
-SALT delegation
-U. Alexis Johnson
-Chief negotiator
-Rogers’s telephone call to Jackson
-Instructions
-Cambodia, the President’s May 8, 1972 decision
-Loyalty
-Foreign Service Officer [FSO]
-The President’s conversation with Jackson
-Staff
-Cuts
-Disloyalty
-George S. McGovernites
-Weisner
-Massachusetts Institute of Technology [MIT]
-American Federation of Scientists
-Lt. Gen. Edward L.Rowny
-Jackson’s conversation with Haig
-Europe
-Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.’s view
-Jackson’s conversation with Henry A. Kissinger
Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:15 pm.
The President’s schedule
Bull left at an unknown time before 4:47 pm.
-Education
-Ph.D.
-Abrams
-Upgrade
-Air Force
-Upgrade
-Four stars
-Haig’s view
-29-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-08)
Conversation No. 822-11 (cont’d)
-Education
-John Hopkins University
-B.S.
-Air Force Academy
-B.S.
-Yale University
-Masters Degrees
-Engineering, political science
-Ph.D.
-Public administration
-Three star status
-Age
-Kenneth E. BeLieu
-John C. Stennis’s and Jackson’s view
-Under Secretary of the Army
-Congressional relations
Congressional relations
-Senate
-National security “loss”
-Democrats
-Southerners
-Gordon L. Allott’s seat
-Delaware
-Iowa
-Colorado
-Maine
-William D. Hathaway
-Edmund S. Muskie
-Margaret Chase Smith
-Offset
-Oklahoma
-Kentucky
-Walter (Dee) Huddleston
-Compared to Cooper
-William L. Scott
-Compared to [William B. Spong, Jr.]
-Georgia
-North Carolina
-Jesse A. Helms
-30-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-08)
Conversation No. 822-11 (cont’d)
The President talked with Milton Friedman between 4:47 pm and 4:48 pm.
[Conversation No. 822-11B]
[See Conversation No. 34-65]
[End of telephone conversation]
Congressional relations
-Cooper
-Ambassador-at-large
-“Fuzzy wuzzy world”
-National Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
-Miller
-US troops in Europe
-NATO
-Loyalty
-Georgetown influence
-Influence on votes
-Relationship with Jackson
-Antiballistic missiles [ABM]
-SALT amendment
-Parity
-Miller
-Senate staffs
-Size
-Influences
-Council for a Livable World
-Administrative and legislative assistants
-Mail, telephone calls
-Lobbies
-Second term
-First term
-Edward M. Kennedy
-Tone
-Timing
Second term reorganization
-Secretary of the Army
-31-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. June-08)
Conversation No. 822-11 (cont’d)
-BeLieu
-Stennis’s view
-Congressional relations
-Democrats
-Background
-Politics
-Bryce N. Harlow
-Retirement from Army
-Korean War
-Loyalty
-US Army Colonel
-Congressional relations
-DOD
-Haig’s view
-Robert F. Froehlke
-Loyalty
-Quote from the Illiad
-ACDA
Jackson’s schedule
-Connally
-Ehrlichman
-ACDA
-Haig
-Kissinger
-Relationship with the President
Second term reorganization
-Haig
-Value
-Abrams
Jackson left at 4:53 pm.