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Conversation: 833-011

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Start Date: 4-Jan-1973 10:03 AM

End Date: 4-Jan-1973 11:33 AM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Kissinger, Henry A.Rogers, William P.Moorer, Thomas H. (Adm.)Kennedy, Richard T. (Col.)Laird, Melvin R.

Recording Device: Oval Office

833-011a.mp3

833-011b.mp3

NARA Description:

On January 4, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, William P. Rogers, Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, Col. Richard T. Kennedy, and Melvin R. Laird met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:03 am and 11:33 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 833-011 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 833-11

Date: January 4, 1973
Time: Unknown between 10:03 am and 11:33 am
Location: Oval Office

Henry A. Kissinger met with William P. Rogers, Melvin R. Laird, Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, and
Col. Richard T. Kennedy.

       Melvin R. Laird

       Republicans

       Photographs of Kissinger
                                             -17-

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Feb-09)

                                                            Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

             -Parties

The President entered at 10:03 am.

       Laird's trip

       The President’s schedule
            -Presentation ceremony for Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                  -Defense Department

       Congressional briefings
            -Kissinger’s calls
            -John C. Stennis
            -F. Edward Hebert
            -Barry M. Goldwater
            -Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield
            -Hugh Scott
            -Announcements
            -William B. Saxbe

       Vietnam settlement
            -Negotiations
            -Briefing
                  -Kennedy
                        -Notes
                  -Spiro T. Agnew
                        -[Thomas] Hale Boggs’ memorial service
            -Rogers
                  -William H. Sullivan
                        -Paris talks
            -Public posture
            -Announcement of meeting
                  -Ronald L. Ziegler
                  -Photographers
            -Format of meeting
            -Laird's report, Moorer's report
            -Report on bombing in Vietnam
                  -Hospital
            -National Security Council [NSC] staff
            -Ellsworth F. Bunker
                                     -18-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. Feb-09)

                                                      Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

     -Civilian casualties
           -Numbers
           -South Vietnamese
           -Destruction of cities by North Vietnamese
                  -Quang Tri
                  -Hue
                  -Saigon
                  -Population
           -Hospitals, orphanages
           -Purpose of reporting
                  -Double standard
           -US air men
                  -Area bombing
                        -Hanoi
                  -Pinpoint bombing
                  -Specific targets
     -Hospitals
     -Report on civilian casualties
           -Distribution
                  -Kissinger, Rogers, Laird, Charles W. Colson
           -Hospitals
           -Orphanages
           -Schools
     -The President's visit to South Vietnam in 1967
           -US hospital
                  -Patients
                        -Vietnamese, Americans
                  -Children's ward
                        -Vietnamese child
                        -Casualty
                        -Courage
                        -Doll sent for child from Nixon
     -Killing civilians
           -Policy of North Vietnamese

Format of discussion
     -Military briefing
     -Kissinger
           -Report on Paris talks
     -Public posture
                                      -19-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. Feb-09)

                                                   Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

           -Development in talks

Military operations in Vietnam
      -Activity
            -Four military regions, Laos
      -Air operations
            -Number of sorties
            -Targets
                  -Military capabilities
                  -Trails
                  -Passes
                  -Truck parks
                  -US ambassador to Laos, G. McMurtrie Godley
            -B-52s in Laos
                  -Stability
      -Laos, Cambodia
            -Nguyen Van Thieu
            -Cease-fire
      -Bombing
            -Reports to Congress
            -Positive results
            -Military targets
                  -Hanoi
                  -Haiphong
                  -Photographs
            -Loss of B-52
                  -Location
      -B-52s
            -Civilian casualties
            -Defense Department responses
            -Defense of bombing
                  -Negative charges
            -Prisoner of War [POWs] camps
                  -Damage
            -SAMs
            -Commercial airport
                  -MiGs
            -Hebert

North Vietnamese charges of civilian casualties
                                            -20-

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. Feb-09)

                                                           Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

            -Public relations [PR] problem
                  -Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson
                  -Impact of bombing on North Vietnamese
            Impact on negotiations
                  -Kissinger
            -Members of Congress
                  -Jackson
            -Press coverage
                  -Congressional hearings
            -North Vietnamese
            -Use of photographs
                  -Negative impact
            -Laird
                  -Individual briefings
                  -Hebert

      Military operations in Vietnam
            -B-52s
                  -Losses
                  -Percentage
            -Anti-aircraft missiles
                  -North Vietnamese capabilities
                  -Christmas stand down
            -Situation within North Vietnam


*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1A
[National security]
[Duration: 50s      ]

      Intelligence

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1A
*****************************************************************


            -North Vietnamese recovery capabilites
                 -Timing
                 -Missiles
                                              -21-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. Feb-09)

                                                         Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

               -Railroad
                     -Damage assessment
               -Repairs
               -Missile assembly rate
           -Bombing effectiveness
               -Negotiations


*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1B
[National security]
[Duration: 1m 37s   ]

      Weapon systems

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1B
*****************************************************************


           -Weather
                -Air power
                -Impact on tactics
                -Instrument systems

      The President's message to B-52 crews
           -Appreciation

      Anti-war statements by captured pilots
           -Haig
           -Prisoners of War [POWs]
                  -Officers
                        -Lack of medical treatment
           -B-52 pilots
                  -Morale
                  -North Vietnamese actions

      Military operations in Vietnam
            -Moorer's call to Gen. Frederick C. Weyand
            -North Vietnamese forces
                  -Numbers
                                             -22-

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. Feb-09)

                                                          Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

            -South Vietnam Marines
            -South Vietnam Airborne
            -Ground action
                 -Kontum
                 -Military Region Two
                 -Hue
                 -Military Region One


*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1C
[National security]
[Duration: 1m 13s   ]

      Intelligence

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1C
*****************************************************************


      South Vietnam Air Force
           -Kissinger
                 -Florida
                 -Report
                        -Defense Department
                              -Weyand
           -F-5s
           -C-130s
           -Capabilities
           -Training
           -Thieu's attitude
           -Vietnamization
                 -Success
                 -Air forces, logistics, ground forces
           -Recent operations
                 -Air support
                 -Independence

      Military operations in Vietnam
            -B-52s
                                     -23-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. Feb-09)

                                                   Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

           -Number
     -Tactical aircraft
     -Effectiveness
           -North Vietnamese communications
           -Psychological impact
     -Support
           -Tankers
     -Airmen
           -Bravery

Photographs of bomb damage
     -Hanoi
     -Targets
           -Railroads
           -Craters
           -Railroad yards
           -Railroads
                  -Hanoi
                  -Trucks
           -Use in briefings
           -Craters
     -Haiphong
           -Warehouses
           -Storage areas
           -Fires
     -North Vietnamese aircraft
     -Airfield
           -Lights
           -Installations
           -Storage
           -Command and control
           -Runway
           -Communications
           -Ambulance
     -Industries
           -Repair work
     -Railroads
     -Haiphong
           -Petroleum, Oil, and Lubricants [POL]
           -B-52s
                                       -24-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. Feb-09)

                                                 Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

      -Hanoi power plant
           -Smart bomb
      -Power grid
           -Destruction

Air raids
      -Smart bombs
            -Weather
            -Headquarters
                  -Hanoi Hilton
                        -POWs
                        -Proximity
                  -Soviet Union
                        -Embassy
            -Targets
                  -Telephone exchange
                  -Defense Headquarters
            -Accuracy
                  -Mistakes
                        -Soviet Union
                              -Embassy
      -Effects
            -Report
      -Recommendations for targets
            -Training and assembly areas
                  -SONTAY
      -Negotiations
            -Timing
                  -Congress
      -Losses
      -Preparation
      -Resumption of bombing
            -Hanoi

Public posture of Defense Department
      -Targets
            -Military

Briefings
      -Press relations
                                              -25-

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Feb-09)

                                                         Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

            -Use of photographs
            -Rogers
                  -Congressmen, Senators
            -Enemy build up


*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1D
[National security]
[Duration: 8s       ]

      Intelligence

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1D
*****************************************************************


            -Infiltration
                   -Increase
                   -Intentions
                   -Compared to last year's rate
                   -Tanks
            -Congress
                   -Stennis
                   -Tone


*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1E
[National security]
[Duration: 28s      ]

      Intelligence

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1E
*****************************************************************

            -Stennis

      Vietnam War
                                          -26-

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. Feb-09)

                                                       Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

            -US aid to South Vietnam
            -North Vietnamese buildup
                 -April 1972 offensive
                        -Effectiveness


*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1F
[National security]
[Duration: 2m 13s   ]

      Intelligence

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1F
*****************************************************************


      Vietnam settlement
           -Kissinger’s negotiations in Paris
                 -Sullivan
                 -South Vietnamese
                 -North Vietnamese
                 -Transcript of proceedings
                 -US proposals
                       -North Vietnamese delays
                       -Sovereignty
                       -Demilitarized Zone [DMZ]
                       -Language changes
                       -Protocols
                       -Signing
                       -Language changes
                       -POWs
                       -Protocols
                 -Kissinger's briefing
                 -Transcript of proceedings
                       -Sullivan
                       -Laird’s memorandum
                 -December bombing of North Vietnam
                       -PR
                       -Congressional briefing
                                     -27-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. Feb-09)

                                                        Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

                       -Military results
                              -Explanation
                                   -North Vietnamese negotiating tactics
                 -Impact on negotiations
                 -Military targets
                       -US pilots’ safety
                       -Accidents
                 -Bad faith bargaining
                       -North Vietnamese
                 -North Vietnamese propaganda
                       -POWs
                              -Photographs

Rogers's statement on Vietnam
     -Congressional relaions
            -House Foreign Affairs Committee
            -Senate Foreign Relations Committee
            -Specificity
                  -Protocols
                  -Kissinger’s approval
                         -Negotiations
            -Timing
            -Kissinger
                  -Maurice Schumann
            -Compared to information given foreigners
                  -North Vietnam
                  -Soviet Union
                  -PRC
                  -South Vietnam
                  -Schumann
            -Limitations on disclosure
                  -Agreement with North Vietnamese
            -House Foreign Affairs Committee
            -Senate Foreign Relations Committee
            -Charles H. Percy
                  -Resolution
                         -Republican support
            -Hebert
            -POW camps
                  -Bomb damage
                                      -28-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. Feb-09)

                                                   Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

                        -Photographs
                               -George H. Mahon
                 -Laird’s public statements
          -Negotiations
                 -Progress
                 -North Vietnamese strategy
          -Chowder and Marching Society
          -Reaction to December 1972 bombing
     -Review by White House, Kissinger
     -Impact on negotiation
          -North Vietnamese delays
     -Advantage
          -Delayed agreement
          -Compared to past delays
     -North Vietnamese’s view
          -Congress
          -The President’s unpredictability
          Missiles
     -Explanation
          -December 1972 bombing
                 -Success
     -Examples of North Vietnamese bad faith
          -International Commission of Control and Supervision [ICCS]
                 -Restrictions
                 -Canada
                 -Investigations
                 -Cease-fire monitoring
                 -Infiltration
     -Delay in release
          -Developments in negotiations

Laird’s statement
      -Military targets
             -Photographs
             -Congress
             -Accidents
                   -Civilian casualties
             -POW camps
                   -Publicity
                         -Stennis, Mahon
                                        -29-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. Feb-09)

                                                  Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

                           -Briefing
     -December 1972 bombing
          -Announcement
               -Military’s motivation
               -Tone
               -Military Assistance Command Vietnam [MACV]
               -Saigon
               -Content
                     -Statement of facts
                     -Military targets
                     -POW camps
               -Timing
               -Reaction of doves
               -North Vietnamese position
               -MACV’s role
               -Moorer’s role
               -Laird’s role
               -North Vietnamese allegations
                     -Refutation
                           -POW camps
                           -Photographs
               -Timing

Roger’s statement
     -Congressional relations
            -Demands
            -Double track approach
                  -Delays
                        -Negotiations
            -Vietnam settlement
                  -Prospects
                  -Optimism
                  -PR
                  -Negotiations
                        -Seriousness
                  -1973 Inauguration
                  -Photographs

Vietnam settlement
     -Cease-fire
                                      -30-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. Feb-09)

                                                     Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

           -US military actions
     -Administration attitude
           -No statements
     -Press relations
           -Divisions in administration
           -Ronald L. Ziegler

Congressional relations
     -Supporters
           -Stennis, Hebert
           -House Foreign Affairs Committee
           -Senate Foreign Relations Committee
     -Informing Congress
           -Kissinger’s view
                 -Negotiations
     -Briefing
           -Press story
           -Gerald R. Ford
                 -Freshman Congress members
                 -John D. Ehrlichman, Shultz
           -Kissinger’s schedule
                 -William J. Fulbright
     -The President's meetings with Congressional leadership
           -Scott, Carl B. Albert, Mansfield
     -Briefings
           -House Appropriations Committee
           -House Armed Service Committee
           -Press coverage
           -Senate Foreign Relations Committee
           -House Foreign Affairs Committee
     -December bombing
           -Resumption
           -Purpose
           -Targets
    -Otto Passman
    -Explanation

Haig’s award ceremony
     -Citation
                                             -31-

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. Feb-09)

                                                             Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

Rogers, et. al., left at 11:33 am.