On January 10, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 1:20 pm and 2:24 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 837-004 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Well, we've got a basic conflict, which ends up that we've got to resolve or decide what we want to do on it.
In that, John has your okay.
I'm talking to you about it.
I'm moving Ponder over as Assistant Attorney General.
I used to go to ATW now, the civil rights thing.
And why do you want it?
I think Clinton's been happy enough with it.
working on all this stuff.
Pat Buchanan, Ed Morgan and Harry Vanden who worked with Bob here, are very high on him.
Harry Vanden.
Buchanan raises the point that we're out of our minds to do it because he will be a disaster with the kinds of people that are for us in the academic world like Irving Kristol and Sidney Hough and Jeffrey Hart and John Chamberlain.
All of those, because of his civil rights stuff.
I didn't bring that up, I thought I had it.
You can in the original memo, but he didn't bring it up.
Well, his point is that a plane copter is going to be a signal, and to go too far.
went for the forced civil rights stuff.
And Berlton's view is that they're horrible.
He says,
enforcing the law.
Their quarrel and Buchanan's quarrel really goes to the heart of the executive order and not to Pottinger.
As far as John can determine, Pottinger only did what the law required him to do, and he did that with a lot of finesse.
What was the law?
The one that seems to be the flap is the requirement that universities hire adequate quotas of blacks.
Oh.
Or with whole funds, yeah.
Federal order on equal employment opportunities in universities.
And Sidney Hooks says, the effect of the ultimatum to universities to hire blacks and women under the threat
But you've got a different situation here.
You're talking about everything in the South.
You can have it somewhere right there.
But what we're talking about is a broader subject here, and that's the whole point of it.
The situation that's given to him is that while HEW may say nice things about no-quarters, there falls out for affirmative action toward gold.
is an affirmative action this is indeed one of those liberal characters i knew in journalism school who's now an assistant dean wrote an attack on what they're doing to columbia in the wall street department not responsible his department is and he couldn't clean out that department as he derives justice well i've not thought let me say let me say this my view is that uh you have you can't first there isn't a hell of a hurry to get it done in my opinion
The real point is that if you can and that group are that disturbed about it, then he can't, he's just not going to fight it.
You see my point?
The fact that they're so disturbed about it has gotten the least of us concerned.
It's like, let's face it, in a very different way.
It's like sending somebody down for confirmation that the goddamn cost was too great.
You're just worried about it.
Okay, let's make the argument then.
I think so, too.
The other thing is that Erland is going to strenuously protest, or wants to strenuously protest the
I think so, yeah.
And there again, you're getting into a thing that, I don't know where the merit is.
I'll get back to trying to find out.
You've got two guys both going on personal merits.
Well, you've got a problem here.
What are you going to do about it?
You've got to offer something.
I just don't know, but I don't know.
I think John is going to be able to protect you.
He thinks he is, and that he's a guy that has
but he's part of the, what was that, you know, his research guys.
Ed Harper.
He's part of the Ed Harper.
He's in school.
He's on a problem.
He's totally the other way around.
I'm not sure.
John has been wrong with some of his people.
Yeah, but so has Chuck.
Oh, right, yes.
I mean, let's not take either one.
But I'm guessing it's because John is closer and weaker.
I don't know.
I'm not so hot for him.
I've seen him around.
I just don't like the liberality that he's... that I can sense.
I think he's a very competent fellow, but he's competent at lying.
and undistinguished where Webster has stage and stature experience.
Well, I think you've got to put it to John, if you would, in terms of the fact that you discussed this one very briefly.
All right.
He's a good, good partner.
On the David Eisenhower congressional scene, oh, this, working on it, there's his summary.
Oh God, he's ready to step aside next time.
But in the past, he wanted his son, who's about 40-something, and not nearly as capable, to be his successor.
It's believed that he now recognizes his son can be his successor.
Goodman is a very strong Eisenhower admirer.
His blessing would be vital in two of the three counties in the district.
The problem with Scott is that Marty Amber, who has established
The county chairman is not a good and upstanding citizen and leader, and is susceptible to being bought, and may have been.
The chairman generally controls the executive committee.
With goodly support, these problems can be extinguished.
But if we run over Hamburger, then we'll have a real political problem with Scott.
If Hamburger gets wind of a potential Eisenhower candidate CEO run to Scott immediately, he can be very vindictive and mean, as well as being very liberal.
Goodland has some problems, literally.
Goodland does not want Hamburger and considers him a carpetbagger.
And in 1972, Goodland told Scott that if Hamburger ran against him then, he would cause problems for Scott.
He, Goodland, would cause problems for Scott.
Hamburger is already putting together a campaign, Kitty.
So Scott needs to be talked to as soon as possible so that Hamburger doesn't get wind of this.
It's vital that Scott be approached so as not to get the idea the president's doing something behind Scott's back.
Our GOP state gentleman believes that
John Eaton of York County almost defeated Goodling in 72.
It would be important to get him on David's side, but he's not nearly so vital as Goodling and Scott probably could be handled.
It's most important that they would be endorsed by York County.
Goodling is on his home front.
A conservative district is rural except for York City, and that's a suburban area of Harrisburg.
The area is also southern
Either the President, Haldeman, or Dent, and he feels it should be Dent.
I agree.
He's as good as a friend of his.
I've spoken for him in his district, and he trusts me.
Second, Scott must be talked to simultaneously by the President or Haldeman.
That's wrong, too.
Someone else has got to talk to Scott.
I don't know who.
But I don't think I should either.
I know you should.
I don't think I should.
Maybe it's George Bush.
And maybe we ought to start getting Bush into these political deals now.
Could be.
Then he says we've got to be prepared to pay a price to Scott and possibly take care of Goodwin's son, who's an attorney.
We shouldn't suggest that, must we?
I would say that if Bush wants to talk to me, I think keeping it out of here totally is important.
But if Bush could go talk to me, if Bush could
Bush and Dent should sit down together with you, and we just lay the whole thing out.
Here's a chance to get a hell of a good young guy in the Congress.
It has to be Scott Hamrick.
Scott should take the leadership one, with good, Scott.
Now, the Congress, I promise we'll take care of both, but as far as Hamrick or Scott's man is concerned, tell Scott to just sort of get a district court thing in there.
Go find him the district court.
That's when I think of this hangar.
For Christ's sakes, if we're going to give him something.
I mean, should we do this for a jackass like this?
That's my view.
Yeah.
OK.
I don't know if you care about the Ted Cox congressional thing.
There's- I don't think there's any there.
Yeah, there are.
But two possibilities.
First district or the sixth district.
Well, you see, his residence is going to be in New York City.
with his family.
Yeah, but he's going to be moving.
He can maintain his residence with his family.
Yeah.
That's Suffolk County.
You've got Otis Pike in there.
Yeah, but it's a two-to-one Republican registration.
So we ought to be able to overthrow a Democrat if we get a Republican candidate.
We had a good one last time.
Remember Rockefeller's?
He died.
A very good-looking young guy.
He couldn't leave Pike.
Well, he says there's an abnormally high percentage of non-voters, and they would be vulnerable to Ed's potential recognition factor.
In other words, he thinks that's a plus.
There's so many people that don't vote there.
If you had Ed Cox who had a high recognition factor, you might get him to vote.
He doesn't really have to.
David really doesn't have anything else to do with it.
with a group of 2,000 or whatever it is, and a standard early release move.
They're running through a lot of early releases.
On David's routine, let me say, I feel strongly about that conversation.
We were not really involved.
It was a hell of a move for the image of the Republican Party to have David Eisenhower, a conservative, intelligent person, in the Congress today.
I don't think Sonny Bush would be better.
Bush to say, here he is.
We've got to get Bush to put these deals in.
That's what he's in for.
The president won't get into this.
But it's a hell of a thing.
He ought to take the lead in doing it.
It would be a great thing for the party in the country, the young candidate thing.
And as far as Scott is concerned, we don't just have to dance to his tune either.
No, but you don't want Scott's opposition.
And you don't want to fight him, or you don't want to primary him.
I'm sure .
The other question you had was Ed Nixon running in Washington.
He's not very interested in doing it, but has thought about it a little bit.
elected and would move in.
But what they recommend is that we run a poll putting him against Lloyd Meads and also put John Lindbergh against him and also Mayor Anderson of Everett.
Those are the major candidates that might run.
And I would give a reading as to what Ed's chances are because Ed's well recognized, obviously, as is Lindbergh and Anderson.
So you don't have a recognition problem.
Yeah, uh, yeah.
Uh, you might try.
I'm not sure he, he's actually been doing it.
I think the idea that you have of the, uh, refining it up, that he's trying to do, uh, some foundation work.
Well, we're 90% sure he is.
He is.
He just doesn't know what he's totally decided to do.
He wants to do it.
But I want to go to New York.
That's a problem.
He should have gone to New York.
God damn it.
He'd hate it.
Earning $25,000 a year to live in New York City.
Jesus, they couldn't do it.
But then, you know, he really, too bad we didn't appoint him, so we can't.
But some business here, we ought to pick him up.
But there's none in Seattle area.
What's that movie thing?
It showed that it's after about 5 o'clock at 5 o'clock.
What you're doing about it is not be so much better than flying with someone.
You know, he's got to decide that.
The only thing I'm really sure about is the day your eyes are on him.
I just think that's right.
I think that's right.
I think that's true.
The other thing is, though, I want tenants to figure out the kind of job that he should have.
He should have a job.
He's got several.
He's working for a company or something like that, sir.
Scott took Bush for his purchase and just took him under his wing and let him give him the credit.
Yeah, not just because of what Scott's saying is to have a nice car.
But they got to get it very fast to stop that.
There's a guy who's raising money already.
I must say, 100% So it did.
So it did.
Regardless of who was here.
I say, if they make good progress, I'll treasure them as their assumption of humanity.
Peter, I will attend to you.
The take should allow about 60-odd seconds.
This is the first time that we've been able to meet our operations and get it back to Washington by Thursday evening.
Prior to that, we announced my trip to friendly Asian captains.
Our in-and-out system will maintain the in-and-out storage, which will not repeat on the announcement plans.
It will be in there for both days.
We'll have to know the rest of the scenario on that.
Very sure that's right.
to go through that scenario so called the day before the inauguration.
It says announce it.
Is that what you said?
Friday, we could announce my trip to permanently Asian capitals.
Don't give me their date.
We'll have to go the rest of the scenario around that.
He very much wants to be here for the inauguration.
So I think you'll find him maneuvering to have the announcement come before, but his departure coming
Henry wants to be here and be a star.
The problem is he won't be a star in the inauguration, which he doesn't realize probably.
Oh, but he'll get enough.
He'll be a star in the sense that at the balls, he will attend the balls and people will come up to him and ask for his autograph.
That's what he wants.
Yeah, but that's such a crush that, you know, Henry loves the public attention and adulation.
Yeah.
Whatever happened there so far, the way that it's being recorded on a curse, particularly by many martyrs, but it's like it's just a ride on the track because martyrs make a great point of the meetings are very icy due to the bombing.
It's good, right?
I just thought I'd ask you if you want to smile.
Yeah, but they made the point that they smiled only
response to .
It's like the atmosphere is .
There's no way up .
Right now, that's the best position.
All the stories were written on small.
I think that the stories have to be made back in the day.
I remember, too, let's face it, I can't believe it was going to fall.
How many times did it fall?
I remember I used to read it in the summaries.
I can't believe it was going to fall every other day.
And I'd mark it up and I'd say, what about this?
What about this?
Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Maybe it's going to fall.
It didn't.
The point I'm making is that...
We've made a hamstring view in taking a commodity.
In other words, the piece of the head thing is a short term plus.
It doesn't buy you anything.
Exceptional.
We should have gone out that day and said, yes, he's our close director.
We've had a great number of discussions on these things.
There are still some matters to be nailed down, and we are going to work very seriously toward that end.
But virtually all the people of the general public had forgotten the fact that it was not Henry who announced that a breakthrough had occurred.
He said that Henry stunned everybody by saying, he's the man.
He did what he said, the rhetoric.
But what he did was confirm that they had announced it.
We are playing exactly the right line in terms of leadership.
The press guys are not so dumb as to not connect something might be happening.
They're being fairly careful, you know.
After all, he's not staying around his toes.
Don't you think so?
That way, isn't it?
A lot of black martyrs started the post-war.
It was so clear.
It was almost selfish, hoping that Christ, that will of God, has made it possible to negotiate with their eyes, you know, and even after we reported also
It's a perfect posture to be in.
Just let her run it that way.
Then the other problem, the problem is, Henry comes back.
Then what do we say?
We say, hey, it's going to Saigon.
Then the press has one or two ways to go.
Assuming that they decide to go back, what they'll say is, we've got another hang-up that we probably can't sell the two, and we're going out begging the two again to go alone.
And then we have to ride that for a few days.
with two.
That's not bad either.
Because it puts the heat on two and sets us up for making fun.
So I'm going to do that service.
Then, the one thing I don't want is on that story, you understand the announcement that they stopped the bombing in North Vietnam.
That's not a dramatic effect.
Because that would mean, because what we will say, why did we stop it?
Because of the progress that has been made on the talks.
That's all.
And Christ didn't do worse.
you know what i mean and they have an all-out competition
Father Zach, the other side of it is that, I hadn't thought about this, but here you are following the pattern again of, while not in so many words, by actions.
And this is what the press might do too, that this is a maneuver to make it look again like pieces at hand to try and buy a cheerful inaugural.
Just like you did the same thing to try and buy a good election day.
Yeah.
Another phony round of .
.
.
That's right.
We just .
.
.
That is .
.
.
In the end, though, if the talk comes up, we will know soon this time.
The press will say that, so they'll say that, right?
Yeah, it doesn't matter.
The other side of it, which in a way would be worse, is that the press would become euphoric again and leave at the, you know, they'd say, well, the signals are clear now, eggs off the Hanoi, and now you've, I mean, not the Saigon, and now you've stopped the bombing.
So obviously we've got to settle.
And we just have to keep quiet.
Henry can't go out and breathe.
Yes.
Then they'll all say, no, why the hell doesn't the president tell us what's there?
There is a problem.
I do.
I think we've got a very difficult problem.
And I suppose I have to worry if I can't come to Florida in these circumstances.
Because the Congress decided.
Yep.
Here he is in Florida, breathing us.
Right.
He'd be here to breathe us.
What do you think?
But what you've got to say is that you can't grieve them anyway.
So being here won't make any difference.
And you announce your leadership meetings for the following week.
It's not doing you good, no.
to say something.
And what has happened?
What has happened when you started to comment there and say, well, you didn't consult us when we started.
Now you're not telling us anything.
So what are you telling me?
I think you're straight on it.
You say that's exactly right.
You say because progress may, but right now the progress could be heard by discussing it until it's all finished.
As we said when we started, when we took the tough side, we are going to talk about it until we get it done.
I say that when we're taking the
The other side is we can't talk about it without jeopardizing getting it done, and we can't do that.
Well, we went through it before he left, and he said then, as we ran the days out, he said, well, that would have me gone during the inaugural.
He said that didn't matter at all, that that might not be bad as a matter of fact.
And it became obvious to him.
There was a factor there, a personal desire to be here for the inaugural.
And then he said, of course, I'll do this.
It's much more important.
If that's what you wanted to do, if you wanted to be gone, I think we can play to his ego on that.
But what the hell?
If you get a hell of a lot more attention being in Asia than you will be being in Washington.
And it puts a good cover over the inaugural that Henry Kissinger's out bringing the thing to an end.
It's damn tough for you and what you say in that inaugural address.
Thank you, Dan.
You've got enough.
I think you've got it.
That's why I want to delay working on it.
There's no reason to start to make up this plan.
You know what time you're doing what?
I'm just wondering if you could do.
But we would announce the agreement when we got it.
That would be before the inauguration.
But Henry's not up on this business, and he's got to go to Hanoi to make sure we got that thing.
So why can't we say we've got the agreement, and Henry's leaving to Hanoi on Sunday or something?
But then...
Everybody's going to be writing about it.
Yeah.
It's almost, yeah, it's almost you let Henry sing and take the cabling from over there instead of coming back and recording it.
Or you could, if he gets the agreement, just cabling go.
and announce that we have an agreement.
Dr. Kistler will be leaving tomorrow to cover, you know, cover the details with our allies and to, uh... Are you talking about all Hague's inside?
Yeah.
See, it's conceivable.
This says Hague should allow 60 hours for the technical details.
Well, it's conceivable that he gets an agreement
Without weighing the whole 60 hours, it's maybe not likely.
Henry's put in the 60 yards.
He's doing the 60 yards.
It's obvious what he's trying to do.
I said it to Kennedy early on.
I said, this is our shot.
I said, you know, I haven't seen a coach poker player.
I said, that doesn't mean he's a good coach.
A lot of people, his feelings are always on him.
Oh, yeah.
You always know what he's up to.
Yeah.
like a child with hands out of a cookie jar.
Christ eat that food out of that precious soul.
Well, I must say, I don't know.
And I grew up without a specific reference to Vietnam.
I just can't, but I don't want to be in a position of saying anything.
Well, you made a certain paragraph the other day that you kind of ran through.
It just made the point that we're in that.
What we hope are the negotiations, too.
Bring this war to an negotiated end.
A way to maintain a structure of peace.
You could say nothing at all about Vietnam and just let it out ahead of time that because of the stage of the negotiations, the president will not talk about Vietnam.
Ron could just say so to the press, just for your background advice, the president will not be mentioning Vietnam in this inaugural address tomorrow because of
Nor an accidental omission.
It's an essential omission.
It's an essential omission.
Yes, an essential omission.
He's not leaving it out because he doesn't want to talk about Vietnam.
He's not leaving it out because he forgot to talk about Vietnam.
He's leaving it out because at this point he can't talk about Vietnam without harming the cause.
So I told you what ought to happen.
I said, let's do it.
We agree.
We agree.
how Henry's a little game of, he has to rush over and talk to our Alex, and God damn, I thought she was ridiculous.
You know, what the hell?
He's already been done anyway.
You know, Haig did that.
He's talking to people.
Well, if you need to do it perform, why the hell can't we cable them, say we're going to announce it in an hour, and that Dr. Kissinger will be there the day after tomorrow to fill you in on the details?
Or Haig's there, that General Haig would be there to talk to them.
7 o'clock there, they started eating tree.
You see, I'm afraid of it.
I'm afraid of it.
But if you hit that in him and you get him off... No, don't do it.
I'm afraid of Henry Stegall's getting into this in the way of the right man.
Because... You could settle this when you want to know.
I see you've got a scenario that has to be worked out.
You see, what really ought to happen is that Henry wants to do
He'd stay there a little longer if he could.
But Hager, he ought to do that, but him, he ought to go there a little bit.
But then he'd go to South Carolina.
Oh, yeah, South Carolina.
Oh, but it wouldn't be announced in advance.
Well, Hager could cover the capitals.
Yeah, that's what he wants.
Yeah.
Alright, use the cover.
That's all he's in for anyway.
Notify the friendly Asians by cable.
And say, Henry Kissinger will be coming to fill you in on details.
That gives him the cover for his trip.
And let them set the time scenario whenever they like.
I didn't.
I always told you that.
That it's, uh, he's promised.
That's, uh, yeah.
Well, I think he has.
And I'm not sure who wants it worse.
Well, he wants it for publicity, shouldn't he?
I think so.
That may be totally unfair to him.
That may be the thing that they really are fighting.
I don't think he's fighting very hard.
That's why, basically, he did not get to an action.
That's the idea.
But the crash, the rest is the rest.
He was the dove, I was the hawk.
But you agree?
It just isn't going to make him look too good, historically, at the end of the February, December.
Although, that's coming up.
You're better and better every day, too.
Like, you knew it had to be on.
Now, it would come up bad again if the toxin collapsed, because they'll say you did it all to no avail.
But that silly overreaction to the bonding is starting to fade in the light of dawn into a recognition that maybe there was some reason for it.
Well, the overreaction to the bonding is stimulated by the God-man Christ.
Absolutely.
And the country didn't react until everybody whipped them up, until the press whipped them up, and these idiots on the Hill.
But the country, even then, Bob, didn't react in the way that it's reacted previously.
Right.
And the campus is burning.
I haven't seen any of that.
I haven't followed it that closely, but I think it would be in the front pages of the papers, where we would have to follow it.
If one campus had a...
on the front page of the paper, there has been a glimmer of a reaction.
Part of that is because it came off as intellectual people, basically, who follow the news mostly, listen to the Sprongites and the others, and the rest.
They're emotive about it.
But they voted for it, didn't they?
And now it all comes out as all that matters.
You think it might be worthwhile
I would do it without Kennedy
We're not going to do it.
I'll walk there usually, but there'll be occasions.
You take, for example, with a full-life Richard.
I'm going to have to sleep alone in the kitchen.
I can do it a lot better than having Henry sit there.
I don't want to, generally speaking, but it's kind of interesting, you know, on that one.
Remember, Henry said that if you take Richardson, you can get Jonathan Moore and Larry Lynn.
Well, Richardson is not insisting at all, if I doesn't want, has no thought of taking Larry Lynn.
But the interesting thing on that one is that Henry Kissinger called Richardson, said, are you taking Larry Lynn over to defense?
And Richardson said, I don't plan to now.
Henry said, well, would you have any objection to my bringing him back into my office then when you leave ATW?
And then on Jonathan Moore, Leonard says, you know, in no circumstances has made a strong pitch.
Now, I did tell Elliot, you know, the thing, he's written you a memo, which he sent to me and asked, didn't ask that it go to you until I was ready to, that appeals the Jonathan Moore decision on the grounds that he is his closest, most trusted advisor, you know, and all this crap.
Well, I've been trying to check the thing out.
It turns out that
Colson is a very strong advocate for Jonathan Moore.
Colson?
Yes, sir.
Says he is getting a totally bum rap from Henry.
The reason he is, is because he worked for Rockefeller on Henry's staff.
Yes.
And then Barack.
Yeah, but worked for Rockefeller on Henry's staff and challenged Henry on several things, which Henry very much resented.
And got into a couple tangles.
and he was working for Elliott at the State Department and working with Henry.
Henry says he's a dove.
Henry says he's a dove.
What's his name, says he's not, Colson.
Ann Richardson says he's not, but Richardson's evaluation's meaning it.
You can't, I've got to get a reading from some, you can't touch, but Henry's whole line on it, he draws this, he says this sort of sinister thing, he says,
He was the leaker of the papers, you know, and everything.
Well, I decided to pursue that through, because that would give me an airtight case.
If I knew that he had leaked the papers, then I could tell how there's no way.
Well, Haig very much doesn't like Jonathan Moore, you know.
So he doesn't want him over there, you know, because it would tangle with him on something.
Well, I start checking this, and I find that our little lawyer, you know, that Young, David Young,
who did all the checking on the leaks.
He checked the whole thing and there is, Jonathan Moore was not involved in any of that.
I've checked, I've had him check indirectly with Buzzard because, and then I checked with Hayes and said, what is this thing about him?
And he said, well, you know, I'm not sure what it was.
Buzzard was the guy that would know, but I don't want to talk to him about it because it'll look like I did something.
So I had Young just say he was trying to get his files up today.
He's been working with Buzzard all the time anyway.
Checked with Buzzard.
Buzzard said, no, Jonathan Moore wasn't involved in any leaks at all.
And Kissinger said, well, you checked directly with Laird.
Because Laird said, Laird told me he leaked.
Well, I'm going to do that.
I think I've got to ask Laird.
Well, sure.
But the thing is, I said, I'm trying to get these files all in order before we close all this out.
What exactly was Moore's, I understand,
What exactly was his involvement?
Because that's the one part that doesn't seem to be filled in.
See, I have a feeling Larry's going to say he wasn't involved.
Henry is like a woman.
He's vindictive as hell.
Anybody that fights him.
Except he sucks back to a Larry Lynn.
Because he's one of them.
But here he is, though, coming to us and saying he can't take the evidence.
He doesn't even take it back in his staff.
Let me say, we've got to realize that Henry's very mixed up.
He sure is.
He's terribly mixed up.
I don't really think that he ever wanted to really draw any open space between the president and himself.
But on the other hand, he was looking at his historical place.
And he just wanted to look good.
He just couldn't stand the heat of those people who said, good God, look at all this bombing and who did it.
Plus, he wouldn't be in a position to do it, which is wrong.
But I don't think he intended to draw a public thing on it.
I think he wanted just to kind of get the word around that good old Henry wouldn't have done this.
He never quite judges how this press stuff and public stuff is going to go.
I think he was playing this in a...
If he was playing it at all on an assumption that it wasn't going to come back and snap him in the rear end and all of a sudden it did.
Incidentally.
And scared the hell out of him.
I think he's worried about it.
Do you?
I don't think he wants it that way.
He's worried about it as far as you're concerned.
He's trying to get a settlement.
It's going to look pretty good that we did what we did.
I mean, you could say, one of the doves would say in there, say, well, we didn't have to do the bombing, actually, right?
That's their mind.
That's what they'll say.
They'll
I'll leave you to look at your record.
When you bombed, they talked.
When you didn't, they didn't.
Coming back to the Florida church, if we go, if the pay goes, would it be well if I, Henry, would be in Florida?
I mean, just frankly, I'd put him in that 340 house.
He'd stay over there.
He doesn't like it over there.
Well, he likes it to be seen.
Well, all right.
I'd let it be seen.
Right.
Tell him he's got to keep quiet.
He'll stay away from the reporters.
He's down there.
You see, if he is here and I am there, you know, while he is over there, I think they're going to say, what the hell, the president's all sitting in the sun.
Even though I've got to go someplace to write this goddamn speech.
Probably so.
Not if you can avoid it, no.
I think you could avoid it.
Yes, I think you can, too.
You really don't have to... You see, I'd be going.
I'd be going.
Heels up.
That's what I mean.
And he said, he looked very good.
Well, he was out of his bag in Paris and paid us off to Saigon.
And on Monday morning, the announcement of the bombing, that's going to be the big announcement, of course.
He was out of the bombing because the progress had been made.
And then the euphoria would start again.
And he was let arrive in a few more days.
This argument that you have more of a problem with Henry in Florida than you do here is not a valid argument.
If Henry wants to get out, he'll get out.
And if he doesn't want to get out, he can easily stay bottled up in Florida, just as easily, more easily, really, than here.
There's only one thing I want, and this is to be done with the security people.
I want Henry's phone's lock.
I want his private phone log, and I want the other lock.
How can you do that with security?
We'll tell him when we come to do that.
I mean, the point is, we've got to do it in terms of weeks.
You mean months?
Oh, God, I don't care what he says.
I just want to know who he talks to.
Like it was to me, it was really valuable to know that he talked to Craig two days before Craig came out with the piece, as you know.
I don't know.
Well, the White House is switched for him, but we certainly can know who he calls in the White House.
We can know who he calls out, yeah.
We can at least know the numbers he calls.
Any call, we ask the White House operator to get it.
We can handle that.
He probably doesn't ask the operator to get it.
He has a secretary to call from.
An incoming call.
The operators, the White House operator doesn't ask who's calling him.
They call in and say, Dr. Kistler, they give him the office, and his office is who's calling him.
I'm not sure we can do it.
Don't do anything.
It's not going to be what I'm responding to.
If he ever found out we were spying on him, he thinks we are anyway.
He's convinced that I love him.
Really?
Yeah, he thinks.
He really does.
He's come in a couple times on a very serious basis.
What the hell is he saying?
He said someone's told him that his phone is being tapped.
He said, if you're tapping my phone, I can understand why you would.
He says, then I want you to know that I know you're doing it.
Henry, I can't conceive of anything I would find less interesting than tapping your bum.
Why do you think he says that?
Well, we all wonder.
I must say that I...
I don't know.
You know, in this whole electronic jungle, you do wonder what happens, you know, sometimes.
Can you please try to handle that matter with John on Wexler?
And it's just got to be put full turkey to John that we've got a political problem here that is very, very serious.
I cannot let the man that was lost... Let me point out that Nathan was not around in the campaign in 1968 that I recall.
He's a bright young man.
But he's not particularly on our side.
I mean, I can sense it this year.
I know, I know.
He hit his weight with this knock, that's my point.
I know the weight.
I don't mean this against you, but he's no Cole.
George Webster, whatever his goddamn false honor is, and he probably has many, was head of lawyers for Nixon in 68, lawyers for Nixon in 72.
And by God, such loyalty is worth something.
I'm sure if you can't do the fair Charlie Browning,
Maybe.
Because he wanted to go to another secretive court.
It could have gotten you to do something for Winston.
Well, this is a guy who was, you know, wants to take one of these things that we want him to take.
And we asked him to.
When John rang me, he said, he's too crooked to go to the IRS.
He's too crooked.
Why wouldn't he?
He's too crooked.
i don't know he's the best yeah i know you know but you see bob were in a spot we get into spots like this and you gotta find jobs for people and i agree both both colson and earthman are tough partners fight for their man i would respect what they did but colson in this case has the better political
They said, the guy is in two campaigns.
Second, he's never had a government position before.
No one has that.
And third, we have a problem with him that we need to sell him.
We offer him sons, and they've already gotten his ass way out there.
He stole all of his clients.
And it'll be a hell of a countdown for him.
Now, I could put him in the OEP.
I suspect that some part, maybe it's a very small part, of Colson's pushing Webster for FTC is to sink England, because I found out that Colson's had a hold on England at the FTC, which we didn't know about before the Webster thing came up.
In other words, he wanted to sink England anyway.
Oh, the political hold.
I see.
Well, that's what we've asked him to do, Bob.
But that may be, yeah, it may be a good thing.
chucks to his to his credit though we told him to look at these things and we've got to get that input absolutely that's why i was glad i liked it i didn't realize that he was being as non-political as he was but i told him that the other way as a result of this he now knows that we're looking for loyalty above everything else he's known it all along it's good for you to emphasize it above everything else god don't we know above everything
And he'll understand.
He's .
As a matter of fact, I think what ought to happen to Edmund is that rather than moving immediately to chairman of any commission, Theo would go as a member first, and then go to chairman.
You know what I mean?
At his age, Webster's in a different position.
He's 50 years old.
He's had 25 years of practice.
And this guy's 34 years old.
I'll wait until we get some sort of report on the day of the meeting.
If it is indicated, or if it stands where it was, we'll get paid over.
And I think we'll just have to go around the county.
But on the Florida thing, I think maybe having talked it around, there is no problem where you can go ahead and do that in particular.
and he will be taking it the whole time.
It's got, he could go down something of any sort and save his program.
Why don't you be the one to take him down?
Let's just, he goes down.
He's there.