Conversation No. 862-10

Date: February 23, 1973
Time: 11:22 am - 12:30 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Hafez Ismail, M. Hafez Ghanem, Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft; the White
House photographer and members of the press were present at the beginning of the meeting.


       Greetings
              -President’s schedule
                     -Delay

       [Photograph session]
              -Arrangements
              -[General conversation]

       Middle East
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                                                              Conversation No. 862-10 (cont’d)



              -Chances of peace
              -Conflicts
              -US discussions with nations in area

       Ismail’s message from Anwar el-Sadat

       President’s meeting with Gamal Abdel Nasser

Unknown person entered at an unknown time after 11:22 am.

       Refreshments

       Matches

       Smoking Cairo
             -Popularity

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 11:45 am.

       Middle East
             -Normalization of relations with Egypt
                    -President’s first term
                    -Difficulties
                    -Future possibilities
                    -President’s second term
                    -US expectations for settlement
                    -[Hussein, King of Jordan] Hussein ibn Talal
                    -Golda Meir
             -Talks
                    -Egypt
                    -Jordan
                    -Israel
             -President’s goals
                    -Prior statements
                    -Normalization of relations with Egypt
                    -Sincerity
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                                                      Conversation No. 862-10 (cont’d)



               -Forthright talks

Ismail’s visit
       -Camp David
       -Purpose
               -New bilateral relationship
               -Peace in Middle East
                      -Sadat
       -Egypt’s independence
               -US, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]

Egypt
        -Meeting in Moscow
               -US knowledge
               -Leonid I. Brezhnev
        -End of Soviet military presence
               -Impact
               -Normalization of relations

Arab world
      -US policy
      -Aswan Dam
      -Egypt
             -Pride
             -Position in Arab world
             -Independence movements
             -Economic development
             -Population
             -Geographic size
             -Culture
             -Influence

President’s trip to North Africa in 1955
       -Impressions
                -Teachers
                -Report to National Security Council [NSC]
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                                                   Conversation No. 862-10 (cont’d)



        -Cultural wealth of Egypt
               -President’s respect
               -Contacts with US

Egypt
        -Population
                -Teachers
                -Farmers, laborers
        -Contribution to world
                -US role
        -Problems with US
                -Neighbors’ fears
                        -Revolution
        -Stability
                -Influence
        -Nasser’s speeches
        -Egypt’s position in the Arab world
                -Saudi Arabia
                -Contributions
                -Progress
        -Desire for peace
                -Military activities
                -Sacrifices
                        -Sovereignty
                        -Territory
                        -Prestige, pride
                -Stability
                -US role

President’s accomplishments
       -Influence
       -Peace settlement in Vietnam
       -Interest in Middle East

US
        -Need for participation in Middle East
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             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                Tape Subject Log
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                                                     Conversation No. 862-10 (cont’d)



                -Guarantor of peace

Hostages
      -Airline shoot down
      -Compared to Institutional Pacifico Banco
              -Israeli Embassy
      -Release
      -US statements
      -Ismail’s trip
              -Statesmanship

Egypt
         -Desire for peace
                -Cease-fire duration
         -Lack of movement
                -Fault

Israel
         -Desire for peace
                -Goals
         -Occupied lands
                -Status quo
                -Immigrants

US support for Israel
      -Military aid
      -Impact of Israel’s attitude
              -Intransigence
      -Effect on Egypt
      -Egypt’s understanding
              -Balance of force policy
              -Fairness
              -Justification
                      -Soviet Union’s presence in Egypt
      -Continued US aid to Israel
              -Impact on peace negotiations
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                                      Tape Subject Log
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                                                             Conversation No. 862-10 (cont’d)




       Middle East conflict
             -Origins
                     -Arab-Israeli conflict
                     -Suez Canal
                     -Palestine
                             -Jews, Palestinians
                             -Necessary of resolution
             -Solution
                     -Egypt’s role
                     -Buffer territory
                             -Shape
                     -Israel
                             -Occupied lands
             -Palestinian question
                     -Separate issue

Henry A. Kissinger entered at 11:54 am.

       Greetings

       Arab-Israeli conflict

       Ismail’s title
              -Proper address

       Kissinger’s title
              -Vietnamese-Cambodian Special Advisor

       Middle East conflict
             -Origin
                     -Palestinian problem
                             -Conflict with Israel
             -Settlement
                     -Egypt’s position
                             -Withdrawal to international borders
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            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              Tape Subject Log
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                                                      Conversation No. 862-10 (cont’d)



                     -Security guarantees
                            -US proposals of 1968-1969
                     -Negotiations
                            -Steps
                            -Balance
                            -Timing

Israel’s security question
        -Palestinians
        -Zionism
                -Arab reactions
                -Threat to peace
        -Egypt’s role
                -Expropriation of Palestine territory
                -Recognition of Israel’s sovereignty
                        -Foreign relations
                        -Compared with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt
                        -National sovereignty compared with Zionism
                               -International contributions
                                       -France
        -Peace agreement with Israel
                -News story
                -Sadat decision
                        -Ismail’s role
                -Settlement

Security
       -Israel’s arms accumulation
               -Long range missiles
               -Nuclear research
               -Challenge to Egypt
       -International guarantees
       -Egypt’s role

Negotiations
       -Egypt’s viewpoints
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            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                Tape Subject Log
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                                                        Conversation No. 862-10 (cont’d)



               -Israel and Palestinian negotiations
       -William P. Rogers’s viewpoint
               -Palestinian representation
                       -Jordan, Egypt
       -Israel and Palestinian negotiations
               -Frontiers
               -Refugees
               -Egypt’s role
                       -Occupied territory
                       -Withdrawal as precondition
       -Resolution of conflict
               -timing
       -US role
               -Superpower
               -Security, peace
               -Influence in the Middle East
               -US interests
               -Balanced, even-handed approach
       -Ismail’s message to the President

President’s viewpoint
       -Realism
       -Egypt’s firm position
       -Alternatives
       -Ismail’s visit
               -International attention
               -Trip to Moscow
                       -[Hussein, King of Jordan] Hussein ibn Talal’s visit [?]
                       -Golda Meir’s visit
       -US goals
               -Timely resolution
               -Relations with Egypt
               -Palestinian, Israeli conflict

Negotiations
       -US experience with the People’s Republic of China [PRC], Union of Soviet
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                                        Tape Subject Log
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                                                             Conversation No. 862-10 (cont’d)



Socialist Republics [USSR], Vietnam
                      -Two-track method
                              -Diplomatic channel
                                      -Rogers
              -Discussions with Meir, Hussein
                      -Compromise
              -Egypt’s position
                      -Sovereignty
                      -National pride
                      -Security
              -Israel’s position
                      -Security
                      -Radical elements
              -Israel’s over-reaction
                      -Libyan airline incident
                              -France’s role
                                      -Pilot
                              -Israel’s role
                                      -Meir’s orders
                              -Israel’s security
                                      -Secure airspace
                                      -USSR’s presence
                                      -Non-governmental actors
              -Rogers
                      -Consultation with Ismail
                      -Compared with a summit
                              -Meir
                              -President’s skepticism
                              -Europe, Moscow, Peking
                              -Preparation
                              -Excessive optimism

       Private talks
               -Confidential
               -Rogers
                      -Trip to Europe
                                      -23-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. Jan.-10)
                                                       Conversation No. 862-10 (cont’d)



       -President’s schedule
       -Ismail’s trip to New York
               -Confidential meeting with Kissinger
                        -Compared with summit
                        -Direct channel to President
       -Bilateral talks
               -Frank discussion
               -Israel’s position
               -Egypt’s position
               -Sovereignty problem
               -Security problems
               -Arms

US relations with PRC and USSR
       -Long term goals
              -Disagreement
                     -Stops toward goals
       -Compared with interim agreements
              -Momentum

Middle East conflict
      -Final settlement

                      -President’s opinion
                             -Common goal
                             -Planned talks
                                     -Kissinger
       -US goal
             -Permanent settlement
                    -Pragmatist
                    -Feasibility
                    -Necessary steps
             -Meeting of Kissinger and Ismail
             -Permanent settlement
                    -Steps
             -Feasibility
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                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                         Tape Subject Log
                                           (rev. Jan.-10)
                                                            Conversation No. 862-10 (cont’d)



                             -Negotiating positions
                      -Long term goal
                             -Alternatives
                      -Definition of issues
                             -Sovereignty compared to security
                      -Possibility of compromise

       Ismail’s mission
              -Meeting with Rogers and Kissinger
              -Report to Sadat
              -Process of consultation
                      -Confidentiality
                      -Public diplomacy
                      -Private talks
              -Publicity
                      -Israel
                      -Problems
                      -Meeting with Kissinger
                              -Schedule
                      -Message
                      -Diplomatic process

       Tricia Nixon Cox’s comments on Egypt
              -Visit
              -Ismail’s welcome

       Egypt
               -Normalized relations with the US
                      -President’s second term
               -President’s visit
               -Kissinger
                      -US relations with PRC
                      -Progress in diplomatic relations
               -Hopes for peace

Kissinger and Ismail left at 12:30 pm.
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                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                        Tape Subject Log
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