Conversation: 870-005Prev: 870-004 Next: 870-006
Start Date: 6-Mar-1973 4:46 PM
End Date: 6-Mar-1973 6:00 PM
Participants:Nixon, Richard M. (President); Bull, Stephen B.; Ziegler, Ronald L.; Butz, Earl L.; Lynn, James T.; Weinberger, Caspar W. ("Cap"); Ehrlichman, John D.; Ash, Roy L.;
Recording Device: Oval Office
On March 6, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Ronald L. Ziegler, Earl L. Butz, James T. Lynn, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, John D. Ehrlichman, and Roy L. Ash met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:46 pm and 6:00 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 870-005 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 870-5 Date: March 6, 1973 Time: Unknown between 4:46 pm and 6:00 pm Location: Oval Office The President met with Stephen B. Bull. President's meeting with Ronald L. Ziegler William P. Rogers's briefing -Statement on terrorism -Paris meeting -Andrei A. Gromyko -People's Republic of China [PRC] foreign minister -Statement on president's policy -Statement on Vietnam settlement -Success of President's policies -POWs -Terrorism -Death penalty -Compared with incarceration -Hijacking -Ransom -Incarcerated terrorists -Haiti incident -Ambassador -Press conference questions and answers [Q&A] -Questions for President -18- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) Ziegler entered at 4:50 pm. Press conference -Foreign policy -Subject of discussion -Rogers -Henry A. Kissinger -Rogers -Performance -Paris -Anecdotes President's meeting at State Department -Wives of slain diplomats -Rogers -[First name unknown] Owen -[First name unknown] Olson -Cleo A. Noel, Jr., George C. Moore -Appropriateness of remarks -Compassion -President's policy on terrorism -Support from other governments -Compromise -Applause for President's remarks -Foreign service officers [FSOs] -Press reception -Television [TV] Bull left at an unknown time before 4:53 pm, President's meeting with Earl L. Butz and others Earl L. Butz, James T. Lynn, Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger and John D. Ehrlichman entered at 4:53 pm; the White House photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting. Budget -Testimony before Congress -Need for "secondary advocacy" -19- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) -Domestic departments Rural Electrification Administration [REAP] legislation settlement -Butz’s report -Votes in Congress -Postponement -Ancher Nelsen, John A. (“Jack”) Knebel -Chance of victory Roy L. Ash -Attendance at meeting -Ziegler Ronald L. Ziegler left at an unknown time before 4:58 pm. Budget -Ash Ziegler entered at an unknown time after 4:53 pm. Congressional relations -Farm bill -Senate bill -Reduction in spending -Budget cuts -Income supplements -Hearings in House -W[illiam] R. Poage -Senate version’s passage -Poage -REA -Compromise -Farm bill -REA funding -Criteria -Cuts -Need to save face -Compromise -20- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) Roy L. Ash entered at 4:58 pm REA -Review of status -Revolving fund -Interest rates -Veto -Precedent -Importance to other vetoes -REA program -Public relations [PR] -Appropriations -Abuses -Receipts -Origin -Success -Benefits of a veto -Sustaining -Compared to Rural Environmental Assistance Program [REAP] -Bob Cook, lobbyist -Views on REAP -Meeting with Richard Fairbanks, John Larsen -Compromise Congressional relations -Farm bill -Difficulties in opposing -Comparison with veteran’s bills -Support for President -Conservative legislation -Foreign policy -Support for excessive bills for farmers and veterans -Carl T. Curtis, Henry L. Bellmon, Herman E. Talmadge Vetoes -Override -Impact on conservatives -Parochialism of farm bill supporters -21- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) -Public attitudes toward farmers -Dislike of subsidies -Impact on North Vietnam aid -“Smallness” of Senators -Farm bill -Recipients -Supporters in Congress -Lobbyists -National Farmers Organization [NFD] -Mail campaign Administration’s letter counteroffensive -Farm Bureau lobbying -REAP vote -William J. Scherle REA -Reorganization -Rural Development Office -Necessity -Loans -Rural Development Act -Veto -Significance of loss -Discussions with Butz -Farm bill -Leadership -Deal -Interest rate Congressional relations -Poage -House Public Works Committee -Cuts to Economic Development Administration [EDA] -Frederick B. Dent’s testimony -Funding for Rural Development Act of 1972 -Anger at White House -Legislation revisions -EDA, Regional Commission legislation -22- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) -Vote -William H. Harsha -Veto override -Compared to Agricultural Committee -Loan programs -Justifications -Contradictions -Impoverished areas -EDA criteria -REA -Farm constituency -Mood -Cooperatives -Interest rates [?] -Negotiations with Nelsen and Poage -Need for compromise -Problems -Administration strategy -Agricultural Committee vote Budget for urban programs -Bill in Congress -Transition funding -Summer youth program -Paul H. O’Neill [?] -President’s opinion -Problems in cities -Federal responsibility -Congressional continuing resolutions on Public Employment Programs [PEP] -O’Neill [?], Weinberger -President’s budget request -Neighborhood youth programs -Additional funding -Transportation, recreation -Funding -PEP, neighborhood youth program -Congressional criticism -Urban renewal -23- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) -Transition funding -Lawrence D. Cohen -St. Paul, Minnesota -Roman Gribbs -O’Neill, Weinberger -Special revenue sharing -Education -Guarantees to mayors -News reports -Need for more data -PEP -Neighborhood Youth Corps [NYC] -Public statements -Gribbs -O’Neill -Continuing resolution -Budget cuts -Press reports -Housing -George W. Romney -Specific commitments -Need for care in statements -Need for PR campaign -REA, REAP [?], water and sewer bill -Visit to Cleveland -1969 budget levels -Way to approach cuts -Cut backs -Money to localities -Mayoral expectations compared to John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson administrations -Tax increases -Impact of budget increases -Mayors -Worthiness of fighting on this issue -President's program -Reversal of trend -Federal bureaucracy and programs -24- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) -Spending -Relation to taxes -Power of presidency -New Federalism -Weinberger -Herb [Last name unknown] -New York Times Congressional relations -Budget appropriations Parochialism of Congressmen, Senators -Conservative tendencies -Republicans -Liberalism about projects in home districts, states -Vetoes -Senate -Ability to sustain -President’s conversation with Hugh Scott -Invitations to White House -Support for President -Trade bill -Vietnam aid -House -Supporters -Lobbying efforts -Senate -Lack of cooperation with President -Irresponsibility -Republicans -Compared with House members -Senators Ted Stevens, Carl T. Curtis -1972 elections -Electoral margin compared to President Budget cuts -PR campaign -Compassion -Tax increases -Patrick J. Buchanan’s memo -25- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) -Strategy -Denying compared to defending cuts -Public confusion -Increased spending -Civil rights, food stamps, aid for aging, education -Compassion -Tax increases -Presentation of simultaneous liberal and conservative image -Attacks on policy of cuts -Administration’s responses -Butz -Tax increases compared with spending -Farmers, cities -Categorical grants -Urban renewal, model cities -PR campaign -Mistake -Spending increases -President’s conversation with Scott -News stories -Trust of President -Vietnam example -Common sense -Compared to Congress, Hubert H. Humphrey, Daniel L. Schorr -Dam example -Community action, Headstart -Spending and compassion -Problems -Focus on beneficiaries compared with increased bureaucracy Congressional relations -Senate -Edmund S. Muskie, Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy -Committee hearings -Television [TV] spectacle -Republican opposition -Weinberger’s experience -26- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) -Phoniness -Political campaigning -Administrations attacks on committees -Offensive strategy -Weinberger’s role -Speeches, writers -Informing public of effect of Congressional action Budget cuts -REAP -PR campaign -Objectives of administration -Control of taxes, spending -Employment increases -Real wage increases -George Meany -Disposable income -Farm income increases -Congressional reactions -Scott, Gerald R. Ford -Budget figures -John D. Ehrlichman's conversation with administrative assistant -Harsha -William E. Timmons -Harsha -Feedback from constituents -Criticism -Mail from supporters of Administration’s policies -William J. Baroody, Jr. -Report -Need to counter lobbyists -Republican Party organizations -Negative feedback -Department of Housing and Urban Development [HUD] Newsclips -Editorials -Critique of HUD’s structure -Surrogate advocates -27- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) -David N. Parker -Schedule -Cabinet -Meeting schedule -Defense, State Department, Domestic Council -Report on supporters of cuts -List of organizations -Activities -Letter writing -National Associations of Manufacturers [NAM] -Advertising -Chambers of Commerce -Value -Letter writing -Value -Ehrlichman’s comment about briefing -American Retail Federation -William E. Timmons’s liaison office -Memorandum -Letters to Congress -Compared to NAM advertisement -Press coverage -Fiscal policy -Butz’s defense -Regional press conferences -Smaller newspapers -Appearance by Cabinet officers [?] -Letters to Congressmen -Appearance by President -Effectiveness -Appearance by Cabinet officers -Effectiveness -Regional, local coverage -TV -Saturation -Editorials -Revenue sharing -Spot newspaper coverage -28- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) -Springfield, Illinois -Wire service stringers -Associated Press [AP], United Press International [UPI] -Compared to national coverage -Compared to President’s appearances -Frequency -Letters to Congressmen -Wording -John W. Dean, III’s advice -Lobbying -Appearances by Cabinet officers -Domestic Council meeting -Urban League, Vernon E. Jordan, Jr. -Funding for urban blacks -William P. Rogers, Elliot L. Richardson -Attorney General -Undersecretaries -Invitations -Talking points -Effectiveness -Effect of staff reorganization, confirmations -Frequency -Feedback from farmers [?] -Planning -Baroody’s office -Effectiveness -Meetings Chamber of Commerce -Report -Advertisements -Need for circular letters to Congressmen -Congressional responsiveness ***************************************************************** [Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift] -29- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) 1974 election -Control of House of Representatives -Funding for Republican National Committee [RNC] candidates -Butz’s conversation with George H. W. Bush, Janet Johnson -Butz’s conversation with Anne L. Armstrong, Thomas W. Evans in 1972 -Farm districts -Potential sear pickup -Projects -Cultivation of candidates -Cabinet, agency support -Problem -Incumbent candidates -Support of William E. Brock, III and Scott -George D. Aiken -Norris Cotton -William B. Saxbe -Wallace F. Bennett -Age -Scott -Margaret Chase Smith -Cotton -Need to encourage to quit -Age limits -Milton R. Young -Age -Mark Andrews -Message about age and need for retirement -Need for votes -Role of party leaders -Democrats -Old incumbents -Need for young Republican opponents -Coordination of election efforts -Bush -Ford, Scott -White House role -Butz’s comment -Political staff -30- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Mar.-09) Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d) -Speeches -Parker -Scheduling -Ability, time -Terrance O’Donnell -Surrogate scheduling [End of segment reviewed under deed of gift] ***************************************************************** Congressional relations -Lobbying -Spending cuts [?] -Outside White House -Baroody compared with Henry C. Cashen, II, Charles W. Colson -Role of President -Letter writing -Outside support President’s schedule -Dinner -Congressmen Butz, et al., left at 6:00 pm.