Conversation: 877-001
Prev:  876-014 Next: 877-002Start Date: 12-Mar-1973 4:40 PM
End Date: 12-Mar-1973 6:34 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Denton, Jeremiah A., Jr.; Sanchez, Manolo; [Unknown person(s)]; Recording Device: Oval Office
NARA Description:
On March 12, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Jeremiah A. Denton, Jr., Manolo Sanchez, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:40 pm to 6:34 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 877-001 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 Date: March 12, 1973 Time: 4:40 pm - 6:34 pm Location: Oval Office The President met with Jeremiah A. Denton. [CONTINUED FROM OVAL 876] [An unknown portion of this conversation was not recorded while the tape was being changed.] [The recording began at an unknown time after 4:40 pm.] Vietnam War -December 1972 bombings -Melvin R. Laird [?] -Options -Fighter bombers compared to B-52s -Weather -Window of opportunity -Possible losses -Laos [?] -Decision -Adm. Thomas H. Moorer -Losses of B-52s -Timing -Flying patterns -Targeting -Moorer -Christmas halt -President’s telephone call to Henry A. Kissinger -Resumption of bombing -Moorer -Resumption of bombing on December 26, 1972 -Intensity of attacks -Denton’s experience -Bombing decisions -Public relations [PR] -2- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Reasons -End of war -“Maximum force” -End of war -“Uneasy peace” -South Vietnam -Military strength -Morale -Viability -Aid to North Vietnam -Leverage -Bombings -Debriefing for President -Joseph [last name unknown] -Cabinet -Prisoner of war [POW] Reactions -Denton’s leadership -B-52s -Integrity -Prayer for President -Effect on North Vietnam -Military tactics -Shock -Explanation to Denton -Explanation of escalation tactics -Effect on willingness to fight -Use -Effect on combat -Conduct of the war by John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson -Gradual escalation -1968 campaign -President’s criticism -Use of power -POWs -Perception of December 1972 bombing -Effectiveness -Senior officers [?] -Appreciation -3- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Release of POWs -Recordings -Denton’s prediction -May 1972 blockade -Pressure in September -Offer of release -Publicity -Basis for Vietnam settlement -October negotiations -George S. McGovern -Position on withdrawal, POW -Immorality -North Vietnam -Release of POWs -Conditions -US withdrawal -Aid to South Vietnam -Nguyen Van Thieu -Overthrow -Aid to Cambodia -Thailand -1972 election -Compared to Harry S Truman-Thomas E. Dewey Campaign, 1948 -Vietnam settlement -Newspaper predictions -Impact on negotiations -Communists -POW release -Denton's prediction -Impact of December bombings, blockade -Blockade, mining, bombing -Aerial attack -Rail lines -Estimates of success -Congress’s role -Kissinger -Return to Paris -North Vietnam’s positioning -4- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Message -New negotiations -Conditions -Vietnam settlement -December bombing -Timing -Congress’s role -Democratic caucus -Partisanship -Cut funds to South Vietnam -US withdrawal -POWs -Impact on negotiations -Kissinger -President's resolve -Compared to Congress, public, cabinet -Denton’s opinion -Planning -Adm. Thomas H. Moorer’s role -Melvin R. Laird’s role -President's role -Compared to Dwight D. Eisenhower, Lyndon B. Johnson -Intensity -1972 summer -Mining, blockade -US-Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR] summit -Election -McGovern -Weather -Peace -Moorer’s recommendations -Bombings -Laird’s opposition -Failure to press bombing -Reports -Impact on negotiations -Opposition to President's policies -Softness -5- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -President's concern for presidency -Personal feelings -President's background -Quakers -Pacifism -Evils of war -Slavery -Stakes of war -Denton’s letter -US character -US foreign role -Responsibility -Leonid S. Brezhnev, Chou En-Lai, Mao Tse-Tung -US presidency -Strength and respect -Nuclear weapons -Polaris -Poseidon -Trident -Impact of American "Bug-Out" -Respect for People’s Republic of China [PRC] US Foreign policy -PRC-USSR interests -President’s public statements Desire for good relations -Universities, press people’s appreciation -President’s meeting with Communist leaders -Relations with world leaders -USSR ****************************************************************************** BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3 [National security] [Duration: 14s] -6- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) NUCLEAR WEAPONS END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3 ****************************************************************************** US foreign policy -PRC-USSR rivalry -President’s public statements -Denial of US manipulation -Compared to public acknowledgement -President’s meeting with PRC Reasons -1972 election -PRC, USSR support for President -1960 election -Nikita S. Khrushchev -Opposition to mining in Mexico [?] -John F. Kennedy -Need for US -Chou En-lai, Mao Tse-Tung -PRC’s fear of USSR ****************************************************************************** BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8 [National security] [Duration: 10s] USSR-PRC RELATIONS END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8 -7- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) ****************************************************************************** US foreign policy -PRC-USSR rivalry -PRC’s military preparedness -Bomb shelters -US-PRC relations -PRC leadership -US credibility -Strength -USSR counterweight -US withdrawal from Vietnam -PRC response -Dependability of US -President’s meeting with Chou En-lai -Compared with Japan -USSR deal -Rearmament -US compared to USSR’s influence -Kissinger’s return to PRC -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO] -Europe -PRC interests -Counterweight to USSR -US-USSR relations -Historical perspective -USSR’s fear of PRC ****************************************************************************** BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 9 [National security] [Duration: 13s] -8- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) NUCLEAR WEAPONS END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 9 ****************************************************************************** -PRC’s population -US-PRC alliance -USSR’s relations with Europe -US-PRC relations -USSR-PRC rift Vietnam War -US blockade, mining of North Vietnam -PRC response -USSR response -President’s visit to USSR -Summit -Reception of US -Meeting with Brezhnev, Nikolai V. Podgorni, Aleksei N. Kosygin -Dacha -President’s quiet diplomacy -USSR, PRC response -Public comments -December 1972 bombing -USSR, PRC response -Europe’s response -Edward R. G. Heath -Willy Brandt -Germany -Canada’s response -Australia’s response -Socialist leadership -US actions -Private channel communications -9- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Kissinger -State Department -Cables -USSR-PRC response Cambodia -US actions -PRC reaction -US press corps -Denton’s view -Conclusion of War in 1965 -Conflict with PRC ****************************************************************************** BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10 [National security] [Duration: 2s] US-PRC RELATIONS END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10 ****************************************************************************** -USSR -PRC, USSR strategic interests Vietnam War -US relations with PRC, USSR -“Tacit agreement” -Desire for peace -North Vietnam actions -Economic impact -10- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -PRC, USSR -Compared to revolutionary struggle -Private diplomacy -President’s intuition -Response to bombing -Publicity -Demonstrations US foreign policy -Leadership -John B. Connally -International experience -Compared to President -World travel -Latin America, Africa, Middle East, Asia -1953 visit to Hanoi -Partition -Adm. Henry D. Felt -Military -Raymond A. Spruance -Ambassador to Philippines -Commanders in chief, Pacific [CINEPAC] -[unintelligible names] POWs -Roger Shields -Airplane -Reception at home -Press -Charges of indoctrination -Grand-standing -Status as celebrities -Example to other Americans -View of US public -Compared to baseball, football players -Possible substance abuse -Children -Standard of conduct -11- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Patriotism compared to personal life -Pride of POWs in US -Interviews with press -Denton -Television [TV] -Norfolk, Virginia -Question about "Bud" Fletcher -Shields -Col. Robinson Risner -US Air Force -Statement on TV -Peace settlement in 1968 -Compared to Denton -Torture -Amnesty request - Ho Chi Minh -Terms of settlement -[First name unknown] Harrington [?] -Dignity -Years in captivity -Ordeal -Cooperation with North Vietnam -Earlier prisoner -Number -Senior officer -Psychological problem -US Air Force -US Navy -Anti-war statement -Voluntary -Marina flyer -Compared to new prisoners -Treatment of the POWs -Publicity -Effect on US aid to North Vietnam -Changes in treatment -Denton compared to Risner -October 1969 -12- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Impact of President's speech -November 3, 1969 -United Nations [UN] -Death of Ho Chi Minh -Denton's experience -Camp transfer -“Soft camp” -News transcripts -Conversations with Major Bai [?] -Head of propaganda, torture program -Democratic Republic of Vietnam [DRV] policy -Self-criticism for ill treatment of POW's Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 4:40 pm. Refreshment -Coffee Sanchez left at an unknown time before 6:34 pm. POWs -Treatment -Publicity -Impact on North Vietnam -Release -Maj. Bai -Disappearance -Protest -Fast -Voluntary participation -Denton’s leadership -Treatment of POWs -Effect on morale -Food, games, exercise -Removal -Release -Meeting of Denton and Col. Robinson Risner -POWs public statements -13- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Treatment of POWs -Impact on US aid to North Vietnam -North Vietnamese statement -POWs cooperation with North Vietnam -POWs' response -Publications -Torture -Change of treatment -Geneva Convention -Military hospital -Treatment -Publicity -Public response -Aid to North Vietnam -Denton’s support -POWs’ attitude -Public statement -Briefing -Timing -US withdrawal from Laos -White House event for POWs -Aid to North Vietnam -Attitude of POWs -Compared to Denton Vietnam -US policy communism -Anti-communism -Post-World War III -United Nations [UN] mandate -Franklin D. Roosevelt -Distractions -Europe -Marshall Plan -Withdrawal -US and North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO] -Revolution -Ho Chi Minh -14- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -PRC -Opportunities for peace -US aid as stimulus -President's visits Meeting with Gao Dai, Ngo Dinh Diem -Ngo Dinh Diem -Leadership -Murder -John F. Kennedy -Catholicism -Fulgencio Batista Y Zaldivar -Cuba -Latin American dictator -Alternative -Communist dictator -Fidel Castro -[Manolo Sanchez][?] -President opinion of people -Lies -Cruelty -Compared to PRC -Energy level -Laos -Energy levels -Cambodia -Energy levels -President’s visit -Norodom Sihanouk -Violin -Thailand -Energy levels -Right-side of conflicts -Wins -Similar to Switzerland -Malaysia -Indonesia -Relationship with the US -Kissinger -15- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Phan Van Dong -US withdrawal -Renewal of conflict -US aid to North Vietnam -POW release -Denton’s view POWs -Treatment by North Vietnam -Publicity -Leaks -Public reaction -North Vietnam compared with Nazi Germany -Concentration camps -US reaction Aid to North Vietnam -US credibility -Christian charity -Denton’s work US Society and culture -Changes in U.S. -Published materials, TV, movies -Denton’s conversations with Joe Kittinger [?] -Flyer shoot down in 1972 -X-rated movies -Degeneracy, moral climate -Male leaders -Women -Youth -Sexual hang-ups -Newsweek, Time -Cover stories -Marlon Brando's film Last Tango in Paris -Pornography -US Supreme Court definition -Redeeming social value -16- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Sales -First commandment [?] -Allegiance to country -Spirituality -Religion and patriotism -Clergy -Berkeley rebellion -East coast -1972 campaign -Hecklers -Appearance -Long hair -Hatred, obscenities -Movies -Antiwar demonstrations -White House -Numbers -Press coverage -TV, columnists -New York and Washington, DC -Compared with South, Midwest, and mountain states -Church attendance -Urban areas -Illinois, Ohio, Indiana -Texas -California -Corruption -Los Angeles, Hollywood, San Francisco, San Diego -Loss of religious faith -Necessity of faith -Principles -Atheists -Youth -Self-hatred, anti-Americanism -Loss of faith -God -Country -Self -17- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Press corps -Differences of beliefs with President -Vietnam -Values -Honor -Bill Henry -Los Angeles Times sports editor -Columnist -Radio, TV program -Window on Washington -Criticism of Washington press corps -Ministry -Protestants and Catholics -White House church service -Father [first name unknown] Matthews -Jesuits -Conservatism -University -Self-hatred -1972 election -Students -Support for President -Faculty -Support for George S. McGovern -Students -Friends of President -Ivy League -Marijuana -Political establishment -Robert A. Taft, Arthur H. Vandenberg, Richard B. Russell, Walter George -Moral decline -Congress -Anti-ballistic missile [ABM] -Vice President's tie-breaking vote in Senate -Impact on nuclear negotiations with USSR -Summit invitation -18- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) ****************************************************************************** BEING WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5 [National security] [Duration: 9s] NUCLEAR WEAPONS END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5 ****************************************************************************** -Opposition in Senate -Partisanship -Supporters in Senate -John C. Stennis -Harry F. Byrd, Jr. -Vietnam -Stennis -Statement -Russell -Bombing decision -Lack of support -President’s explanation -Radio, TV -North Vietnam -PRC, USSR -Compared to May 8, 1972 decision -Public support -Settlement -Leader class -Denton -Education -US Naval Academy, George Washington University -Compared with President -19- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Moral decline -Labor leaders -George Meany -Frank E. Fitzsimmons -[unintelligible name] -Strengths -Farmers, isolationists -Lower, middle class -Ethnic peoples -Italians -Poles -Irish -South -Patriotism -Elite class -Business community -New York -Misunderstanding -Adolph Hitler -Communism -Effects of US education -Weaknesses -Leader class -Decline of nations -Military, economy compared to national character -Common people compared with leader class -Greece -Rome -Morality -Compared to Communist nations -Leadership -Leonid I/ Brezhnev, Chou En-lai -Brezhnev’s skill as swordsman -Puritanical, overzealous attitude -Graft, corruption -PRC, USSR -Leadership class -Habits -20- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -USSR -Alcohol consumption -Adultery -US leadership -Decline of “Puritan ethic” -Courage, strength, principles -President’s talks with business leaders, academics -Reaction to Cambodian invasion -Ivy League presidents -Kissinger -Harvard University -Support for President -Protests on campus -Professors POW's -Example to Americans -Image -Frustrations -Stories -Potential leadership Denton -Book -US society and culture -Future plans -Military service -Book -Age -Military rank -Leadership steps -Flag -Book -Personal anecdotes -Format -Diary -US moral climate -Draft on bandages -21- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Anti-communism -Solitary confinement -Support for President An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 4:40 pm. Copy of President’s November 3, 1969 speech The unknown person left at an unknown time before 6:34 pm. President's speech POWs -Meetings with President Denton -Book -Self-subjugation -The Lord’s Prayer An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 4:40 pm. Delivery of November 3, 1969 speech President's glasses The unknown person left at an unknown time before 6:34 pm. Glasses -Denton's glasses President's speeches -Availability to Denton, other POWs -Influence over POWs -Denton’s view of President -"Silent Majority" speech of November 3, 1969 -Denton's brother -Use of term “Silent Majority” -22- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Crank calls to Denton -President's points in speech -Vietnam -Alternatives for US -“Just peace” -Negotiated settlement -Vietnamization -U.S. withdrawal -Consequences -Recriminations -US role in world -Confidence in US -Relief compared to remorse -History -President’s problems Past wars -[Thomas] Woodrow Wilson, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman -World War II -Support of US public -Cabinet -World War I -Abraham Lincoln -Difficulties -Mary Todd Lincoln's brothers -Civil War experience -Support of Cabinet -Leader class -Vietnam -Support for President -Public, Congress -Dwight D. Eisenhower -Anne Whitman's telephone calls to Vice President -Problems -Heart attack -Political understanding -Support -President’s task to cheer up -23- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) Vietnam -Lack of support for President -Goals -Oval Office -Fate of presidency -Importance US as world leader -Pre-World War I -Theodore Roosevelt, -Albert Thayer Mahan -“Great White Fleet” -US role -Pre-World War II -US leadership -Compared to Great Britain -Vietnam era -Free world leadership -President’s speech -1968 -World politics -Terror, communism -PRC -USSR -Stakes in Vietnam -Military sacrifice, POWs -Credibility -American spirit, character -Postwar role -Disarmament -Public sentiment -Defense budget cuts -Dealings with USSR, PRC, North Vietnam -US strength -Public support -Leadership class -Compared to labor, stenographers [?], farmers, poor -24- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) Conversation No. 876-13/877-1 (cont’d) -Importance -Opinion makers -TV, radio, columnists, university presidents, clergy, businessmen, political leaders -US withdrawal -Opposition to war -Leadership class -1969 election -Victory -Compared to “Silent majority” -Hardhats, farmers, poor -Support for President -Need for leadership -“Average man” -Clergy, politicians US society and culture -Education -Respect for teachers -Religious schools -High schools -Press -Influence -TV -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew's statements -Denton’s interactions -Consensus Denton's meeting with President POWs -Reception -Example for President Presidential gift -Golf balls POWs -25- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Sept.-2010) -Reception -Weather President's visit to South in the 1940's -Road trip -Virginia -South Carolina -North Carolina -Charleston, South Carolina gardens -Flowers -Motels Denton left at 6:34 pm.