Conversation: 878-018
Prev:  878-017 Next: 878-019Start Date: 13-Mar-1973 4:42 PM
End Date: 13-Mar-1973 5:19 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; [Unknown person(s)]; McCloy, John J.; Bull, Stephen B.; Recording Device: Oval Office
NARA Description:
On March 13, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, unknown person(s), John J. McCloy, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:42 pm to 5:19 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 878-018 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 878-18 Date: March 13, 1973 Time: 4:42 pm – 5:19 pm Location: Oval Office The President met with Henry A. Kissinger. Charles H. Percy An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 4:42 pm. John C. McCloy’s arrival The unknown person left at an unknown time before 4:47 pm. People’s Republic of China trip [PRC] -Percy's presence in delegation -Paris -Endorsement -[Unintelligible name] -William P. Rogers Vietnam -North Vietnamese in Laos and Cambodia -US disengagement -South Vietnam counterattacks -30- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. July-2010) -Prisoners of war [POWs] return -US attacks on North Vietnamese in Laos -US bombing of Ho Chi Minh Trail -Adm. Thomas H. Moorer -Targets -Use of B-52 -North Vietnam’s fears -Warning -Display of President’s reaction -Effect on future decisions -South Vietnam -POWs -Khe Sanh -Buildup -US support for forces -Vietnam settlement -Honorable peace -Preservation -Instability -North Vietnamese violations Letters -Bombing An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 4:42 pm. McCloy -Delay The unknown person left at an unknown time before 4:47 pm. Meeting with McCloy -Length McCloy’s background -PRC, Soviet Union McCloy entered at 4:47 pm; the White House photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting. -31- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. July-2010) Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d) Greetings Foreign Service -Wives -Ambassadorships An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 4:47 pm. Refreshments The unknown man left at an unknown time before 5:19 pm. McCloy’s health ***************************************************************** BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3 [Privacy] [Duration: 4s] END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3 ****************************************************************** Arms control -Mccloy's work -Frustration -Arms Control Advisory Committee -J. William Fulbright -President's advisors -Thomas E. Dewey, Dean G. Acheson McCloy’s career -Advice on foreign policy -President’s appreciation -North Atlantic Treaty Organizatin [NATO] -Soviet Union -Value -Past presidents -32- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. July-2010) Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d) -Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson -Resignation -Work with Kennedy -Establishment of Arms Control and Disarmament Agency [ACDA][?] -Congressional relations -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks II [SALT II] -Current concerns -Shifts in balance of power -Western Europe -Change in jobs NATO -Future -Shift in balance of power -Gaullist victory in France -Left-wing -Germany -Kissinger’s concern ************************************************************************** BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4 [National security] [Duration: 12s] INTELLIGENCE REPORTS END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO 4. ************************************************************************** -European unity -Left-wing enemies -Socialists -US interests -Social Democratic Party [SPD] -Tone -East-West relations -33- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. July-2010) Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d) -Otto Von Bismark -Willy Brandt -New group -Pressure -European socialist state -Unification of Germany -East Germany -Relations with Soviet Union Arms Control Advisory Committee -Disarmament -Usefulness -Technical complexities -Sensitivity -Second place -Future -Composition -Fulbright -Effectiveness -McCloy’s successor as Chairman -Reconstitution -Resignations -New members -William W. Scranton -David Packard -Abilities -William C. Foster -Effectiveness -Advocacy -Use of intelligence -Replacement by Gerald C. Smith -Abilities -Experience -Judgment -Selection of a member -Criteria -Establishment -Complications -[First name unknown] Patrick [?] -34- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. July-2010) Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d) -Abilities -Scranton -Abilities -Packard -Smith -Membership on committee -Chairmanship -Problems -Compared with Foster -Robert F. Ellsworth -NATO -Abilities -Chairmanship compared with membership -Henry Cabot Lodge -Requirements of job on committee -Complexities -Dealings with other committees and committee members -Massachusetts Institute of Technology [MIT] -[Unintelligible name] -Cambridge, Massachusetts -Knowledge of weapons -Leaks [?] Bay of Pigs invasion -Leaks -Allegations in book -Chester Bowles -Undersecretary of State -Opposition to operation -Leak to press -Daniel Ellsberg case testimony by McGeorge Bundy -Government servant -Obligations -Sabotage of operation Arms Control Advisory Committee -I[lorwith] W[ilbur] Abel -Labor connections -John A. Wheeler -35- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. July-2010) Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d) -Princeton University -Scientist -Discretion [?] -Contribution -Gen. Lauris Norstad -Chairmanship -McCloy's service -Length McCloy's plans -Possible appointment -New York Foreign relations -President's 1972 PRC, Soviet Union trips -Arms control -Vietnam settlement reaction -Congress -Dangers -Difficulty -US successes -Safety -Strength -Soviet Union -Vietnam -Need for defense strength -Arms buildup -Europe -US military presence -SALT II, Mutual and Balanced Force Reductions [MBFR] -Europe -Government infrastructure -Leadership -Parochialism -Japan -Alliance -Soviet Union -PRC -Economic ties with US -36- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. July-2010) Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d) -US defense -Cutbacks -Budget -US troops in Europe -Role of US strength, respect -Vietnam settlement reaction -India -Council on Foreign Relations [?] -Soviet Union -Arms supplies -Economic aid -Latin America -US arms supplies -France -Military -Stabilizing force -Control -Indonesia -Dr. Achmed Sukarno -US arms program -Communists -Role of army -Council on Foreign Relations -Attitudes -Support for PRC trip -President’s anticommunism -Chou En-lai -Diplomacy -Advantages -Compared to Soviet Union initiatives -World security -Soviet Union -Split -Opportunity for US role -Europe -US interest -Unity -Relations with US -Economy -37- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. July-2010) Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d) -Confrontation with US -NATO -Defense -Challenges to US -Relations with Western Europe -McCloy’s preoccupation -International meeting -Amsterdam -New relationship with US -McCloy’s contacts -Germany [?] -Great Britain -France -High-level group -East Germany -Soviet Union -Partnership -Jean Monnet -Background -Views -United Europe -Avoidance of partnership with US -US strength -Surcharges on US goods -Conflict with Gen. Charles A. J. M. de Gaulle -President's meeting with de Gaulle -President's meeting with Monnet -US foreign policy -New paradigm [?] -Shaping of events by US -World War II -European strength -European leaders -Edward R. G. Heath -Georges J. R. Pompidou -Brandt Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:47 pm. -38- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. July-2010) Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d) President's meeting with William J. B. Dorn Bull left at an unknown time before 5:19 pm. Flowers Kissinger and McCloy left at 5:19 pm.