Conversation: 881-012
Prev: 881-011 Next: 881-013Start Date: 16-Mar-1973 5:10 PM
End Date: 16-Mar-1973 6:43 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.; Ehrlichman, John D.; [Unknown person(s)]; Kissinger, Henry A.; Kahn, Herman;Recording Device: Oval Office
NARA Description:
On March 16, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, John D. Ehrlichman, unknown person(s), Henry A. Kissinger, and Herman Kahn met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:10 pm to 6:43 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 881-012 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 881-12
Date: March 16, 1973
Time: 5:10 pm - 6:43 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Ronald L. Ziegler.
Ziegler's meeting with Republican Club presidents of East Coast schools
-Ziegler's impression
-Watergate
-Interest in constitutional questions
-Sherman Adams case
-Charge of impropriety
-Comparison
-Administration's stand on cooperation
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
-John W. Dean, III
Watergate
-Richard G. Kleindienst's meeting with Samuel J. Ervin, Jr.
-White House cooperation
-Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] files
-Disclosure
-Regulations
-Administration position
Press relations
-Vietnam
-Democratic caucus resolution
-Unilateral withdrawal
-North Vietnamese infiltration
-Ziegler's meeting
Herman Kahn entered at 5:14 pm.
Introduction to Ziegler
The White House photographer entered and Ziegler left at 5:14 pm.
Photographs
-Arrangements
-President’s chair
The White House photographer left at an unknown time before 5:24 pm.
Kahn's meeting with President
-Value
-John D. Ehrlichman's reaction
An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 5:14 pm.
Refreshment
The unknown person left at an unknown time before 5:24 pm.
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
Last meeting with President
-New York
-Phil Bartman [?]
-President’s political career
Hudson Institute
-Financial state
-Personnel
-Expenditures
-Research
-Contracts
-Government studies
-Defense Department, State Department, National Security Council [NSC],
Executive Office of the President [EOP]
-Institute's policies
-Private sector funding
-National Security Agency [NSA]
-National Endowment for the Humanities [NEH]
-Effectiveness of President’s speeches
-Length of research
An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 5:14 pm.
Ehrlichman
-Presence at meeting
-Foreign policy studies
-Meeting
-Earl L. Butz
The unknown person left at an unknown time before 5:24 pm.
Kahn's current project
-Study
-Resources
-Pollution
-Productivity
-Cultural attitudes
-Study of water
-Public attitudes
-Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Energy
-Environment
-Influence of propaganda
-Iron Curtain countries, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
-Catholic Church in France
-Strength
-Albigensian heresy
-Control
-Czechoslovakia
-1968 reform movement
-Religion
-Jan [last name unknown]
-USSR
-Communist Party
-Rhetoric
-Unity
-Propaganda
-Student attitudes
-Variation
-Prestige universities
-Support for George S. McGovern
-Faculty attitudes
-State universities
-Non-college youth
-Political attitudes
US politics
-Book
-Public attitudes
Ehrlichman entered at 5:24 pm.
Ehrlichman's schedule
-Cost of Living Council [COLC]
Meeting with Kahn
-Ehrlichman's presence
NEH study on long term prospects for mankind
-Six phases
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Phase one
-Use of technology
-Phase two
-Studies of food, housing
-Population
-Phase three
-Conference on food issues
-Compensation
-1976 US bicentennial
-Credit for President’s policies
-Financing
Domestic Council
-Proposal
-Necessity
-Energy problem
-Crisis
-Henry Fairlie's book about John F. Kennedy
-Attitudes of writers, scholars
Current crises
-Food prices
-Urgency
-Sense of crisis
-Vietnam War
-Watergate
-Long-range planning
-Need for caution by leaders
-Speeches
-Leader class
-Weakness
Prisoners of war [POWs]
-President's meetings
-Solitary confinement
-Strength
-Contrast with nation's leaders
-Weaknesses
-Universities
-Strength in White House
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
Leaders of US
-Weaknesses
-College students
-Change in attitudes in 1960's
-Earning potential
-Lack of effort at improvement
-Compared to Europeans, Romans
-Prestigious universities
-Chart of attitudes
-Locations on chart
-American national character
-Prestigious universities
-Party affiliation
-Comparison with nation
-Comparison with middle management
-Robert F. (“Bobby”) Kennedy
-Democrats
-Minority groups
-Labor unionists
-George Meany
-Kahn's article
-Deletions of questions
-List of groups
-Changes in social groups
-Episcopalians, Congregationalists, Presbyterians
-Students
-Establishment
-1950's
-Comparison with 1960s
-Leader class
-Churches, universities, press
-Dwight D. Eisenhower
-Ethical critics
-Unitarians
-Dissident elements
-“Joy love culture”
-Bicentennial
-Intellectual content
-Use of Kahn’s research
-Role of US in world
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Social problems
-Solutions
-Japan
-Future role
-Per capita income
Domestic problems
-Domestic Council
Upper middle class
-Dialogue
-Kahn’s US News and World Report article
-President's meeting with Newbold (“Newby”) Noyes, Jr.
-Setting up
-Terms
-President's speech in 1969
-Tone
-Editing
-Attacks
-Press reaction
-Kahn's changes
-Dialogue with New York Times
-New York Review of Books
Press relations
-Inaccuracies
-New York Times
-Washington Post
-Baltimore
-Votes for President
-Patriotism, morality
-Racism
-Editorials
-Kahn's conversation with Max Frankel and Thomas Grey (“Tom”) Wicker
-A. M. Rosenthal editorial
-Survey
-Reason for votes for President
-Racism
-Mistakes by New York Times
-Vulnerabilities
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Potential for change
-Daniel Yankelovich's poll
-Critique of New York Times editorials
-Busing issue
-New York Times errors
-Costs of busing
-Public opposition
-Role of racism
-Neighborhood schools
-Quality of schools
-Segregation
-Contradictory policies
-Neighborhood schools
POWs
-Return
-Capt. Jeremiah A. Denton, Jr.
-Solitary confinement
-Book on US and his experience
-US at time of capture
-Audience for book
-Common people
Leader class
-Current decline
-Source of decline of civilization
-Common people
-Businessmen
-Weaknesses
-Managers
-Corruption of children
-Elite schools
-Vietnam War
-Peace
-Antiballistic missile system [ABM] system
-Opposition
-Establishment
-Churches
-Fundamentalists
-Support for President
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Baptist
-Catholics
-South
-West
-Established churches
-Quakers
-Weaknesses
-Episcopalians
-Presbyterians
-Denton
-Supporters of President
-William F. (“Billy”) Graham
-Lack of respect as religious leader
-Educators
-College presidents, faculty
-Weaknesses
-Comparison with students
-Ivy League
-Graduate schools
-Businessmen
-Conservative orientation
-Selfishness, weakness
-Lack of courage
-Support for President
-Midwest, South, West
-Laboring classes
-President’s November 3, 1969 speech
-“Silent majority”
-Election
-Opposition to demonstrators
-Farmers
-Small businessmen
-Comparison with Wall Street
-Chamber of Commerce
-National Association of Manufacturers [NAM]
-Reason for support for President
-President’s victories
American society
-Education
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Kahn’s book title
-“1963 to 1972: A decade of Educated Incapacity”
-[Unintelligible name]
-Trained incapacity
-Engineers, sociologists
-Influence on attitudes
-Newspapers, universities
-President’s background
-New York
-Leader class
-Shallowness
-Lack of character
-Religion
-Revival
-Decline of Christianity
-Sweden
-Germany
-France
-Italy
-Pope
-Spain
-Latin America
-Mexico
-US
-Movement toward orthodoxy
-Protestants
-Baptists
-Church of Christ
-Pentecostals
-Counter culture
-Counter counter culture
-Jews
-George C. Wallace
-Spokesman for counter counter culture
-[Unintelligible name]
-Racism
-Wallace's change in attitude
-Racism
-Racists
-Shame
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Article in newspaper
-White workers
-Denials of racism
-Washington Post
*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
-Letter from President to relative of Timberlake family
-Irish Catholicism
-Racism
-Rose Mary Woods
-Son
-Suicide
-Daughter
-Interracial marriage
-Letter
-Father’s reaction
-1973 inauguration
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
-Spokesman for counter counter culture
-Wallace
-President as spokesman
-Compassion
-Poor blacks
-Melvin R. Laird and Defense Department
-Concern for New York Times, Washington Post editorials
Press relations
-First term
-Press effect on others
-Good ideas from press
-White House staff
-Obsession
-Wicker
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-New York Times, Washington Post, Columbia Broadcasting System
[CBS]
-President’s lack of enemies
-President’s press coverage
-Quality
-Journalists’ disagreement with President on issues
-President’s disinterest
-Wicker
“Joy, love culture”
-James B. (“Scotty”) Reston
-Generation gap
-Commencement speech at Stanford University
-Students' reaction
-Communication with President
-Rhetoric
-Spiro T. Agnew's "effete snobs" comment
-Presentation of administration's case
Intellectuals
-Exposure of errors
-Support of President
-Response to changes in public opinion
-Interest in power and survival
-Decency
-Sense of mission
-New York Times
-Vietnam War
-Defeatism
-Opposition to peace and aid
-South Vietnam
South Vietnam’s successes
-President’s Vietnamization program
-President’s speech
-Kahn’s article
-Left Wing’s theory
-One year interval before North Vietnam’s victory
-Chance of victory
-South Vietnamese strength
-Kahn’s articles for Saturday Review of Literature
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-North Vietnam’s settlement
-Nguyen Van Thieu's visit to US
-Peace settlement
-Successes
-December 1972 bombing
-Retention of Thieu in power
-Thieu’s weakness in 1969
-North Vietnam
-Tanks
-An Loc battle
-Historical significance
-Ancient Greece
-Press reports
-Press relations
-Deficiencies
-Cambodian operation
-Correct play
-Impact on US casualties
-Defense Department
-Successes
-Weapons capture
-Publicity
-Statistics
-Example of Customs Service's capture of heroin
-Publicity
-Talking paper
Press relations
-Approaches
-Reston
-Review of record of each reporter
-President's reasons for talking with press
-Issue of credit
Vietnam War
-France
-Mistakes
-Gen. Creighton W. Abrams
-Perception of victory
-Five major studies
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Rural constabulary
-Sir Robert Thompson
-Marine Corps, Navy
-South Vietnamese police
-Counter intelligence
-Rotation of US personnel in Vietnam
-Village indoctrination
-US skill
-Training of US personnel
-Deficiencies
-Perceptions of wealth
-Education
-Counterinsurgency tactics
-South Korean forces
-Northern group
-Problems
-Group south of Danang
-Successes
-US Army refusal to learn from them
-Thompson’s recommendations
-Rural insurgency
-Latin America
-Successes
-Panama
-School
-UA military manuals
-France
-Kahn's talks at Pentagon and Saigon
-Criticism of generals
-Gen. William C. Westmoreland
-Abrams
-Age
-Cambodia operation
-Loss of Gen. Do Cao Tri
-Laotian operation
-Attrition
-Abrams
-Thailand
-Air support
-Abrams
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Public relations
-Poor performance
-Saigon press conference
-Cambodia operation
-Public justification
-Laos operation
-Perception of success
-President's policies
-Successes
-Opposition
-Press
-Establishment
-Congress
-Henry A. Kissinger’s January 1973 trip to Paris
-Democratic caucus
-POWs release
-Troop withdrawal
-Time article
-J. William Fulbright
-Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield
USSR, People's Republic of China [PRC] initiatives
-Arms control
-Vietnam settlement
-Delay
-Complexity
-Weapons freeze
-Negotiations
-Warsaw Pact
-Negotiations
-Europe
-Mutual Balanced Force Reduction [MBFR]
-Fulbright, Mansfield, New York Times
-Unilateral reduction
-Sources of us success
Vietnam War
-May 8, 1972 decision, December 1972 bombing
-Opposition
-Intellectuals
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Lack of support
-Cabinet
-John B. Connally
-Opposition
-1972 Moscow summit
-North Vietnam’s offensive
-Tanks
-USSR
-Hue
-1972 Moscow summit
India-Pakistan war
-PRC
-US policy
-Support for Pakistan
-India
-Support from US public
-PRC initiative
-USSR initiative
-US establishment
-Comparison with Great Britain
-Refusal to understand government position
-Kissinger
US upper middle class
-Relations with administration
-Colleges
-Harvard University
-Persuasion
-Pakistan policy
-Crime
-Commission
-Rape
-Sex in society
-Religion, morality, taste
-Pornography
-State support, availability
-Threat to family
-Sex education
-Public support
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Reasons for support by leaders
-Pregnancy avoidance
-Sources of opposition
*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
-Board of education view
-Sex as creative, joyful, fun
-Teaching of sexual techniques
-Opposition from parents
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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-Dangers to American family
-Sex and values
*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
-Role of mystery
-Women’s dress
-Attractiveness
-Bikini
-Slit skirt, pantaloons
-PRC
-South Vietnam
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
-Individual values
-Prudishness
-Marlon Brando
-Time, Newsweek covers
-Esquire, Playboy
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Children
-Supreme Court
-Pornography
-Redeeming social value
-Last Tango in Paris
-Look
-Life editorials
-Past quality
-President’s reading as Vice President
-Changes in standards
-Modern art
-Kissinger
-Sensationalism
-Saturday Evening Post
-Pornography
-Advertising
-Readership
-Advertisers’ attitudes
Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon’s birthday
-President's schedule
President's policies
-National unity
-Amnesty
-Christian Science Monitor
-Divisiveness
-Communication with upper middle class
-Washington Post, New York Times
-Potential to influence
-Harvard University
-New York Review of Books
-Wicker
-Decency
-Max Frankel
-Reston
-Problem
-Background
-Snobbishness
-Wicker
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)
-Subjects
-Potential for persuasion
-Note from Kahn to President
Intellectuals
-Hostility to President
-Apologies
-Wicker, Reston
-Washington Post
-Joseph C. Kraft
-Alger Hiss case
-Hiss as intellectual
-Guilt
-Whittaker Chambers
-Transcript
-Confrontation in hearing room
-Alias
-Transcript
-Fund controversy [?]
-1968 election victory
-Vietnam War
-Defeatism
President’s schedule
-Mrs. Nixon’s birthday party
Kahn's note to President
-Study
Kahn's family
-Wife
-Golf
-Children
-Gifts
President's reading
Kahn and Ehrlichman left at 6:43 pm.
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)