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Conversation: 886-007

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Start Date: 21-Mar-1973 9:15 AM

End Date: 21-Mar-1973 10:12 AM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Ehrlichman, John D.

Recording Device: Oval Office

886-007.mp3

NARA Description:

On March 21, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:15 am and 10:12 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 886-007 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 886-7

Date: March 21, 1973
Time: Unknown time between 9:15 am and 10:12 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with John D. Ehrlichman.

       Meeting with George P. Shultz
            -Scheduling
                  -Stephen B. Bull
            -Shultz's return

       President's schedule
             -Trip to Florida
                    -Speech preparation
                    -Relaxation
             -Meeting with Shultz and Ehrlichman
                    -Shultz's return
                    -Arrangements
                          -President's departure
                    -Topics of discussion
                          -International monetary situation
                          -Phase III economic controls
                          -Tax program
                          -Trade tactics

       Shultz
             -President’s conversation with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
             -Workload
                   -Trade with United Soviet Socialist Republic [USSR]
                         -Henry A. Kissinger
                               -Frederick B. Dent
                         -Importance
                   -Energy
                         -William E. Simon
                               -Amount of time
             -Phase III economic controls
             -International monetary situation
             -Areas of concentration
                                     -7-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              Tape Subject Log
                               (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                    Conversation No. 886-7 (cont’d)


          -Petroleum policy
                -Gen. George A. Lincoln
                -Import quotas
          -Energy
          -Trade
          -Taxes
          -Prices
     -Energy
          -Simon
                -Specialty
                -Ability
     -Labor Department
          -Peter J. Brennan
                -Under secretary
                       -Richard F. Schubert
                            -Lawyer
                            -Labor Department experience
                            -Announcement of appointment

Assistant secretaries at Labor Department
      -William H. Kolberg, John H. Stender
      -Brennan
      -Shultz
      -Appointments
      -Brennan
            -Public relations role
      -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
            -Democrats
            -Number of loyalists
                   -Problems
            -Problems with Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]
            -Approach to problems

Shultz
      -Meetings with President, Ehrlichman
           -Arrangements
           -Conclusion
           -Length
                 -Termination of meeting
                                         -8-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                            Conversation No. 886-7 (cont’d)


                        -Helicopter
                        -John A. Volpe
            -Value
                 -Effects of travel

Book by Daniel P. (“Pat”) Moynihan
     -Pakistan
     -US relations with India
           -Aid
                 -USSR, People’s Republic of China [PRC]
     -Loyalty to President
     -Conclusion
           -Problems
     -Book by [First name unknown Burke]
           -Los Angeles Times

Welfare bill
     -Uncertainties
            -Risk
     -Work requirements
     -Talmadge amendment
     -Herman Kahn's comments
            -Negative income tax
     -Variety of opinions
            -Congress
                  -Tough stance
            -President's leadership in changing attitudes
     -Working poor
            -Help
                  -Tax credits
                  -Parochial school aid
                  -Negative income tax
                  -Child tax credit
                  -Housing aid
                  -Medical aid
            -Social workers

Ehrlichman’s schedule
                                      -9-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                       Conversation No. 886-7 (cont’d)


Food prices
     -News summary
            -Press coverage
            -Lyndon K. (“Mort”) Allin
     -White paper
            -James W. McLane
            -Statements on diet
                  -Meat
                  -Fish
                  -Balanced diet
                  -Fair prices
     -President's example
            -Chicken consumption
            -Fish consumption
                  -Florida
     -Virginia H. Knauer's comments
            -Shopping
            -Beef
     -President's actions
            -Press coverage
                  -Hugh Scott's comments
                  -Ronald L. Ziegler's briefing
                  -Scott's comments
     -Earl L. Butz
            -Problems
                  -Republican Party
            -Influence of Agriculture Department
            -Stockpile problem
                  -Butz's undermining
            -Use of discretionary powers
                  -Memorandum from President
            -Opposition to President's policy on stockpiles
     -Stockpiles
            -Administration team
                  -Frederic V. Malek and member of Kenneth R. Cole, Jr.’s staff
                  -Visits to Cabinet officers
            -Ehrlichman’s meeting with Butz
     -Price controls
            -Simon
                                     -10-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              Tape Subject Log
                               (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                       Conversation No. 886-7 (cont’d)


                 -Phase III economic controls
                 -Pressure from Wall Street

Simon
     -Judgment of food price
     -Wall Street
     -Bernard J. ("Bunny") Lasker, Nicholas S. Nunzio [?]
     -President’s comments
     -Work with Shultz
           -Food prices
           -Ehrlichman’s conversation with Shultz

Economy
     -Simon, John T. Dunlop, Shultz, Arthur F. Burns
           -Budget cuts
     -Prime rates
           -Increases
                  -Simon
                  -Jawboning
           -Phase III economic controls
                  -Lack of confidence
                  -Wall Street reaction
                        -Lack of confidence
     -Dunlop
           -View of economic problems
                  -Optimism
           -Dealings with labor
                  -Railroads
                  -Rubber
     -Shultz
           -Work with George Meany
     -Gross National Product [GNP]
           -Inflation rate
                  -Phase II, Phase III
                  -Optimism
     -Campaign issue
           -Press coverage
     -Food prices
           -Administration's responses
                                       -11-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                         Conversation No. 886-7 (cont’d)


                  -Effectiveness
      -Administration's policymakers
            -Shultz, Herbert Stein and Paul W. McCracken
                  -Competence
                        -Ehrlichman's judgment
      -Recession of 1970
            -Mildness
                  -Conditions
      -Press coverage
            -Effect on public attitudes
                  -Vietnam settlement
                  -Prisoners of War [POWs] return
                  -Wounded Knee incident
                  -Prices
                  -Watergate
                  -Impoundment
                  -Congressional relations
            -Portrayal of crises

President's second administration
      -Eastern establishment
             -Sense of panic
                    -Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO] issue
                    -Fear of success, activism
                    -OEO issue
                          -Howard J. Phillips
                                -Misinterpretation
                                       -William T. Cahill [?]
                                -Patrick J. Buchanan
                                -Speeches
                                       -Clearance with Ehrlichman
      -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
             -Public statements
             -Defense of L. Patrick Gray, III
                    -President’s defense of Sherman Adams
                          -Dwight D. Eisenhower
      -Phillips
             -Criticisms
             -Clearance of speeches
                                   -12-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                            Tape Subject Log
                             (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                      Conversation No. 886-7 (cont’d)


     -Criticism of administration
            -Vietnam War
                  -Peace with honor
            -December 1972 bombing of North Vietnam
            -Peace groups prolonging war
            -Kissinger
     -Return of POW's
            -Public reception

Vietnam
     -POWs
         -Capt. James A. Mulligan, Jr.
               -Appearance on television [TV]
                      -Columbia Broadcast System
               -News summary
               -Accent
               -Statements
               -Support for President
                      -Necessity of 1972 December 1972 bombing
               -Criticism of CBS, US visitors to Hanoi
                      -Prolonging war
                      -Effect on POW morals
                      -Propaganda for North Vietnamese
               -Patriotism
                      -Flag
                      -National anthem
               -December 1972bombing
                      -Impact on outcome of war, morale of POWs
         -Statements
               -Collection and publication
                      -Title
               -December 1972 bombing
               -Distribution
         -Press coverage
               -John F. Kennedy, Franklin D. Roosevelt
               -Impact on public
               -POW statements
                      -George S. McGovern
               -Hobart D. (“Hobe”) Lewis
                                     -13-

             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                             Tape Subject Log
                              (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                      Conversation No. 886-7 (cont’d)


                 -Administration involvement

Udall bill
      -Lewis
      -Free speech

Impoundment
     -Gerald R. Ford
           -Statement
                  -Budget deficit
     -Public relations
           -Tax increase
                  -Figures
           -Amount impounded
                  -Comparison with Lyndon B. Johnson administration

Watergate
     -Gray
           -Ziegler's statement
     -Testimony to Congress
           -White House instructions
                 -Investigation
     -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] raw files
           -Administration position
                 -Gray testimony
           -Release to Congress
                 -J. Edgar Hoover precedent
           -Opposition
           -Proper procedures
                 -Administration's policy
                        -Publicity
           -News summary
                 -President's past statements
                 -Lowell P. Weicker, Jr.
                        -Questioning
           -Committee's questions
                 -Watergate
                 -Gray's instructions
                        -Deal between Richard G. Kleindienst and James O. Eastland
                                       -14-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                       Conversation No. 886-7 (cont’d)


                       -Confusion
                              -Ziegler's statements
           -Administration's policy
                 -President's instructions
                       -FBI raw files
                 -Constraints
           -Kleindienst
                 -Press conferences

Press conferences
      -Staff meeting
            -Press relations
      -Kleindienst
            -Reluctance
                  -Management issue

Law enforcement
     -Administration's advantages
     -Martin Z. Agronsky and other critics
     -Capital punishment
     -Drug abuse
     -Capital Punishment
           -State laws
     -Kahn
           -Comparison with Counterreformation
     -Divestiture of federal power
           -Opposition
                 -Revenue sharing

New federalism
     -Divestiture of power
           -Responsibility to localities
           -Walter H. Judd's campaign speech in 1960
                 -Analogy about daughter
     -Law enforcement
           -Increased toughness
                 -Permissiveness
                 -Attacks on drug pushers
                       -Kleindienst
                                          -15-

                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                   Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                           Conversation No. 886-7 (cont’d)


           -Ethical tone one of society
                 -Watergate
                 -Rejection of permissiveness
                       -1960s
                              -Opposition to law
                              -Radicals
                              -Disrespect for flag
                              -Pornography
                       -Respect for patriotism, family, religion
                 -Role of government
                       -Local government
                       -Law enforcement
                       -Welfare
                       -Trickle-down theory
                              -Poor
                 -President's goals
                       -1973 inaugural speech
                              -Comparison with Kennedy's 1961 inaugural speech
                       -Comparison with universities
                 -Ministers
                       -Compassion
                              -Criminals
                                    -Murderers, rapists
                                    -Role of parents
           -Administration's goals
                 -Toughness
                 -Law enforcement
                       -Drug abuse
                 -Developmentally disabled
                 -Press opposition
                       -Isolationism in foreign policy
                 -Strength of US
                       -Threat to world
                       -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy, McGovern

      Human nature


******************************************************************************
                                               -16-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                           Conversation No. 886-7 (cont’d)


[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

            -Christian Scientists
            -Quakerism
            -Inherent character
                  -Impossibility of perfection

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
******************************************************************************


            -Religious beliefs
            -Jean Jacques Rousseau
                  -Noble savages
                        -Civilization
                        -Evil nature
            -Bible
                  -Two versions of Creation
                        -Fall from Grace
                  -Old Testament
                  -New Testament


******************************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

            -Religious sermons
                  -Hellfire and damnation
                        -President’s dislike

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
******************************************************************************


                  -Contemporary US
                       -Softness
                             -Episcopalians
                             -Presbyterians
                             -Humanism
                                      -17-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              Tape Subject Log
                               (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                      Conversation No. 886-7 (cont’d)


                      -Religious mystery
                 -Youth
                      -Reversion to fundamentalism
                            -Jesus freaks

     Press relations
           -Food prices
           -Law and order
           -Agnew
                  -Support for Gray

Summer youth program
    -Administration's plans
         -Positive publicity
         -Cole's briefing
         -Clearance process
               -Mayors, Congress
    -Summer violence
    -Funding
    -Summer violence
         -Respectability
         -Press coverage
         -Blacks
               -Jesse L. Jackson
               -Projection of attitude
               -Vernon L. Jordan
                      -Criticism of administration
                      -Conversation with Ehrlichman
                             -Cabinet meeting
                      -Revenue-sharing
                             -New Reconstruction
               -Stanley S. Scott
               -Arthur Fletcher
                      -Black colleges
                             -Problems
               -Jordan
                      -Criticism of administration
                             -Ehrlichman’s response
                                   -Funding cuts
                                              -18-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                               Conversation No. 886-7 (cont’d)


                              -“Good Indian”

       Rogers C. B. Morton [?]

Ehrlichman left at an unknown time before 10:12 am.